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[Locked] why do you guys tell them how to make there game?

OP WARINATOR117

i see alot of posts doing this or that. like your worried so much about loosing bungie classic feel.

yor forgetting they are people too.

they are not going to rewrite the whole game just cause its not halo 3 2.0

not how community forums work.

they didn't create these forums for you to tell them how to make a game.

if you don't like the design. well you can always make your own game.

im no deev, but i don't think thats fair these forums are getting used to tell 343 how design there game.

im sorry, but its really not good look for the community.

its almost like you guys want trhem to be like call of duty to be the same when all they do is cancel new ideas.

i understand you all hate the direction that badly. but telling them to redsign this or that. don't. just don't.

im glad the community aint in charge of the game. it be a mess 2.0.

critisicm is acceptable, but use them wisely not tellign them how to rewrite the art.

also, don't message me privately. if your going to respond then respond.
If people are dissatisfied with aspects of the newer Halo this is one of the places they can speak out about it. Halo is a product made to be sold to customers. If the customers aren't happy with the product they wont buy it. Player feedback is a good way to find out why they wont buy the product. I'm not saying that all the feedback is good or that it will actually change the game, but being able to see what people are say about your games can help in developing a game more people will buy.
Snockooz wrote:
If people are dissatisfied with aspects of the newer Halo this is one of the places they can speak out about it. Halo is a product made to be sold to customers. If the customers aren't happy with the product they wont buy it. Player feedback is a good way to find out why they wont buy the product. I'm not saying that all the feedback is good or that it will actually change the game, but being able to see what people are say about your games can help in developing a game more people will buy.
i understand for sure. im glad im not a dev who has to put up with this stuff. i feel bad for the devs. cause they have to put up with this kinds of communties.

i just hope realize they are people too. they can't always delay there vacations for a game. i hope they aren't doing that.

im just concern listening too much to the community is bad. cause people do take kindness for greatness. i seen this behavior many times of different communties. people take things for granted. it gets anybody nowwhere.

i had to get this off my chest. cause i can already see people tearing them apart cause it doesn't have bungie name on it.

thats my concern.

i just don't apreciate tell them how to do this or that cause they aint bungie. thats a problem im seeing this community.

look at call of duty. activision destroyed themselves with the greed.

no matter what they do. the greed pretty much gets ahold of there heads.even with good deedds. the community or the heads at activision destroys it.
If they want full creative control they should have joined a studio creating new IP. Jumping into an existing franchise limits comes with certain expectations from the community that was already in place. If 343 can't balance community criticism with their own fresh ideas and design they shouldn't be making Halo or any long running franchise. Understanding which criticisms to take to heart and which criticisms to ignore is part of the job they were hired to do, they get no sympathy from me. Even if 343 were to realize the OP's worst fears and throw their hands up saying "whelp, I guess we are just copying Bungie 1:1 now", that would only show that 343 was never right for the job in the first place.

I mostly just find these complaints blaming the community for having their own opinions to be incredibly tiresome. The folks I see bringing up "Halo 3.0" are folks like the OP who like to use the idea to try and discredit players with legitimate grievances by framing them as being against any and all change.

The timing of this post is particularly funny given a significant chunk of the fanbase got hyped for the reveal of the Banished in Infinite, an 343 creation.
Because most posters have no idea how hard maintaining a code tree is, and how much documentation is required in most orgs for even the most basic changes to production code.
I think the halo community like many others is just passionate and so you get all of these passionate responses to the devs about what they want to see in the games-- toxic or not. There is no way to realistically please everyone, and I agree with you that there should be less "demands" by the fans.

Why do they do this? I think this type of behavior has always been a thing but its prevalent more than ever because there are so many platforms to be vocal nowadays due to the rise of Twitter, reddit, facebook, etc. since Bungie left the Halo franchise. There used to be more of a barrier in terms of directly communicating with fans and devs 10-12 years ago, and social media was not used to market as much as it is in 2020. Now that companies understand the value in communication between them and the consumer, they have been more communicative with their audience and more receptive to feedback (for better or for worse).

So I don't think this is anything new, but we are seeing more of it now than ever due to everything I just brought up. And no, I don't have any sources to back my claims, but I'm going off of my experience and observations as a longtime halo fan who has played since back in the H2 days.

I also want to address your gripes with the community being harsh on 343 since helming the franchise. Are fans being cruel to 343 by constantly comparing them to Bungie's work? Yes and no. In Bungie's time, there was more of a "blind" trust between them and the community because they were matching if not exceeding expectations with every Halo sequel. To be fair to Bungie, they set the standard really high for not only Halo, but for the entire FPS genre. So 343 were coming in off of these unprecedented successes by Bungie, and had immense shoes to fill. So anything less than what we have been given in the past is going to be criticized by hardcore fans.

Overall I think 343 has made huge missteps early on with h4, MCC, h5 in terms of adding on to the experience of the Bungie halos (which is a whole other topic), but in recent years they have done a good job at salvaging the legacy of halo. We see this through the MCC being taken care of with constant updates, as well as still paying attention to their H5 community. IMO they still have a lot to do in order to fill the shoes of Bungie, and hopefully they can do it this holiday with Infinite. But all in all I think that the fan-demands to make their games a certain way is totally unfair, but its not unfair for fans to expect things that have been in previous games day one (forge mode, theater, fulfilling campaign and multiplayer experience). I think that those two categories of fan complaints get confused as the same thing.
While I agree that some people do treat the forums as more of suggestion tool like "Don't add a Battle Royale but do add armor abilities again! with AI in Forge!" I do think the people who express their concerns over past Halo titles by 343 can do so. It's apart of every gaming community for the community to express what they like and dislike with games, the community love the Banished in HW2 so now they're coming to Halo Infinite.

343 is very lucky to have a community who is very passionate about this franchise and is willing to give feedback and criticism to their games. It's easy to say "Oh this sucks" but many fans say "This sucks BECAUSE...". I see 343 is wanting to let fans have a bigger say in the franchise due to the flighting program they set up with MCC. It's a system that allows players to find bugs and report back so they can be fixed.

343 has learned so much due to the fans expressing how they feel via the forums, YT videos, etc so I think people saying what they want and what they don't want is extremely helpful.
Fan feedback is literally part of why the forums exist. The community gives their input on what they like and don't like, then 343i looks at it and decides what they want to do about it. This has resulted in good changes. As fans we should discuss everything about the games, that's what forums are for lol Good devs listen to their community. If they don't, the game is bound to fail because that's the point, making a game people will like.
WerepyreND wrote:
If they want full creative control they should have joined a studio creating new IP. Jumping into an existing franchise limits comes with certain expectations from the community that was already in place. If 343 can't balance community criticism with their own fresh ideas and design they shouldn't be making Halo or any long running franchise. Understanding which criticisms to take to heart and which criticisms to ignore is part of the job they were hired to do, they get no sympathy from me. Even if 343 were to realize the OP's worst fears and throw their hands up saying "whelp, I guess we are just copying Bungie 1:1 now", that would only show that 343 was never right for the job in the first place.

I mostly just find these complaints blaming the community for having their own opinions to be incredibly tiresome. The folks I see bringing up "Halo 3.0" are folks like the OP who like to use the idea to try and discredit players with legitimate grievances by framing them as being against any and all change.

The timing of this post is particularly funny given a significant chunk of the fanbase got hyped for the reveal of the Banished in Infinite, an 343 creation.
you know new ideas are allowed to worked right?

cause halo needs to evolve.

they don't need to have bungie name on it for it to exist.

just cause you guys hate halo 4 an 5 that badly. doesn't mean your everybody. everyone is allowed to like the campaigns an multiplayer.

now im hearing rumor sof halo infinite killing locke. im concern about you guys alienating other people enjoyment of halo 4 an 5.

you guys don't need to brag constantly of telling others you can't like them cause they aint bungie.

new ips always fail. halo has to have new ideas. new characters. master chief voice actor is not immortal. hes going to die soon. there not ending halo to just master chief.

i was hoping halo wars to have 3, but you guys killed it cause it wans't master cheif or first person shooter. you gusy are limiting the franchise to be fps only.

im sorry, but this needs to be said. we all have to discuss it eventually.

you guys can't keep killing spin-offs caus ethey aint master chief only. or arrbiter only. cause it needs new characters.

i know all of you want horror spin-off, they won't make it. you gusy don't want new characters.
WerepyreND wrote:
If they want full creative control they should have joined a studio creating new IP. Jumping into an existing franchise limits comes with certain expectations from the community that was already in place. If 343 can't balance community criticism with their own fresh ideas and design they shouldn't be making Halo or any long running franchise. Understanding which criticisms to take to heart and which criticisms to ignore is part of the job they were hired to do, they get no sympathy from me. Even if 343 were to realize the OP's worst fears and throw their hands up saying "whelp, I guess we are just copying Bungie 1:1 now", that would only show that 343 was never right for the job in the first place.

I mostly just find these complaints blaming the community for having their own opinions to be incredibly tiresome. The folks I see bringing up "Halo 3.0" are folks like the OP who like to use the idea to try and discredit players with legitimate grievances by framing them as being against any and all change.

The timing of this post is particularly funny given a significant chunk of the fanbase got hyped for the reveal of the Banished in Infinite, an 343 creation.
you know new ideas are allowed to worked right?

cause halo needs to evolve.

they don't need to have bungie name on it for it to exist.

just cause you guys hate halo 4 an 5 that badly. doesn't mean your everybody. everyone is allowed to like the campaigns an multiplayer.

now im hearing rumor sof halo infinite killing locke. im concern about you guys alienating other people enjoyment of halo 4 an 5.

you guys don't need to brag constantly of telling others you can't like them cause they aint bungie.

new ips always fail. halo has to have new ideas. new characters. master chief voice actor is not immortal. hes going to die soon. there not ending halo to just master chief.

i was hoping halo wars to have 3, but you guys killed it cause it wans't master cheif or first person shooter. you gusy are limiting the franchise to be fps only.

im sorry, but this needs to be said. we all have to discuss it eventually.

you guys can't keep killing spin-offs caus ethey aint master chief only. or arrbiter only. cause it needs new characters.

i know all of you want horror spin-off, they won't make it. you gusy don't want new characters.
Your argument is a bit all over the place, but it seems that you are blaming the community for limiting 343's ventures in their game development. First off, to perceive most of the community as 343 haters is ridiculous, because there are plenty of people who like what 343 has done with H4 and H5. Second you are claiming that as as the reason to why we don't get things like halo wars 3. You have to realize that 343 doesn't have full control in these big types of decisions. Microsoft/Xbox corporate has a big hand in dictating what game is going to be made based off of sales figures, not fan forums. I think you are giving the community too much credit for influencing game production. You may have an argument about what 343 puts in their games based off community feedback, but at the end of the day they make their own decisions as developers. Community outcry has some power, but not as much as you are claiming.
Feed back is good for progress. The community was vocal about their feelings on Halo’s art style and story, and now we have a great new art style for Infinite and a Chief-focused campaign.
This is gas lighting if I ever saw it. You guys were the ones that came into our backyard and demanded changes. Then when all three of their games failed you blame the actual fans and call us "ungrateful" or "entitled". Call of Duty is successful because every game is similar. Also, Reach wasn't a classic Halo game.
WerepyreND wrote:
If they want full creative control they should have joined a studio creating new IP. Jumping into an existing franchise limits comes with certain expectations from the community that was already in place. If 343 can't balance community criticism with their own fresh ideas and design they shouldn't be making Halo or any long running franchise. Understanding which criticisms to take to heart and which criticisms to ignore is part of the job they were hired to do, they get no sympathy from me. Even if 343 were to realize the OP's worst fears and throw their hands up saying "whelp, I guess we are just copying Bungie 1:1 now", that would only show that 343 was never right for the job in the first place.

I mostly just find these complaints blaming the community for having their own opinions to be incredibly tiresome. The folks I see bringing up "Halo 3.0" are folks like the OP who like to use the idea to try and discredit players with legitimate grievances by framing them as being against any and all change.

The timing of this post is particularly funny given a significant chunk of the fanbase got hyped for the reveal of the Banished in Infinite, an 343 creation.
you know new ideas are allowed to worked right?

cause halo needs to evolve.

they don't need to have bungie name on it for it to exist.

just cause you guys hate halo 4 an 5 that badly. doesn't mean your everybody. everyone is allowed to like the campaigns an multiplayer.

now im hearing rumor sof halo infinite killing locke. im concern about you guys alienating other people enjoyment of halo 4 an 5.

you guys don't need to brag constantly of telling others you can't like them cause they aint bungie.

new ips always fail. halo has to have new ideas. new characters. master chief voice actor is not immortal. hes going to die soon. there not ending halo to just master chief.

i was hoping halo wars to have 3, but you guys killed it cause it wans't master cheif or first person shooter. you gusy are limiting the franchise to be fps only.

im sorry, but this needs to be said. we all have to discuss it eventually.

you guys can't keep killing spin-offs caus ethey aint master chief only. or arrbiter only. cause it needs new characters.

i know all of you want horror spin-off, they won't make it. you gusy don't want new characters.
Thought I'd respond to these point by point as it's a little easier:

you know new ideas are allowed to worked right?

-Of course new ideas can work if they're done right.

cause halo needs to evolve.

-Yes it does. But that doesn't mean catering to what other games are doing. That's what killed Halo 4.

they don't need to have bungie name on it for it to exist.

-You are correct sir.

just cause you guys hate halo 4 an 5 that badly. doesn't mean your everybody. everyone is allowed to like the campaigns an multiplayer.

-Correct again. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions and enjoy whatever they want. But the people who dislike Halo 4 and 5 are also allowed to state their opinions and reasoning for disliking the games, and give feedback. Customer feedback is how games can improve.

now im hearing rumor sof halo infinite killing locke. im concern about you guys alienating other people enjoyment of halo 4 an 5.

-The majority of people disliked Locke, but that could be due to the fact that he took up more screen time than the Chief. People play the current Halo story to play as the Chief, not some boring bland new character. 343 potentially killing Locke or putting him on the sidelines is due solely because they made a decision to cut out the main character in the current story arc, and the majority hated it. This is their own mistake and they are rectifying it. Not the communities fault.

you guys don't need to brag constantly of telling others you can't like them cause they aint bungie.

-I agree with this one. A lot of people don't seem to get that a lot of employees from Bungie that made the OG Halos now work at 343.

new ips always fail. halo has to have new ideas. new characters. master chief voice actor is not immortal. hes going to die soon. there not ending halo to just master chief.

-Saying that new IPs ALWAYS fail is just wrong, plain and simple. Yes Steve Downes will stop voicing Chief at some point, and they'll have to introduce a new main character, but they need to do it right. Locke was boring and bland and that's why the majority disliked him.

i was hoping halo wars to have 3, but you guys killed it cause it wans't master cheif or first person shooter. you gusy are limiting the franchise to be fps only.

-Again it just seems like you're trying to blame the community for everything. There is more involved in making a game than just 343 themselves as Microsoft is heavily involved in what happens with all things Halo. Many people liked the Halo Wars games, but that style of gameplay is not as popular on console, so it likely had lower sales due to that. This was likely a studio decision to cancel HW3 due to money, not because of the community "hate" towards it.

you guys can't keep killing spin-offs caus ethey aint master chief only. or arrbiter only. cause it needs new characters.

-This is completely incorrect. Halo 3: ODST is well known to be loved by all Halo players, and Chief wasn't involved in the game at all. And let's also remember Reach (see what i did there). Reach was a spin off that introduced a plethora of new characters and Chief wasn't mentioned once.You need to stop focusing on Chief in all your arguments and look further into why certain things work, and why some don't. Halo 3: ODST worked well because of the great story, lovable characters, and the darker silent tone of the game.They have also introduced many characters outside of Chief and Arby that many people loved: Buck, the rookie, rest of the ODST squad, all of Noble Team, Lasky, Jerome and red team, Cutter, the list goes on.

i know all of you want horror spin-off, they won't make it. you gusy don't want new characters.

-Again this is just incorrect. Many people want new characters and that has been proven by how popular all the characters I mentioned above are. But new characters need to be done right and not just added for the sake of change.
you know new ideas are allowed to worked right?
I see we are just going to ignore my post entirely and keep fighting straw-men,oh well.
The community has accepted plenty of new ideas, you just don't like acknowledging them because it hurts you argument. The Banished being one of those brand new ideas that most folks seem pretty excited for that I mentioned in the post you were quoting.
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cause halo needs to evolve.
Certain people love saying this, but it just goes to show they don't understand how evolution works IRL or in game development. Evolution isn't a linear path where you constantly "evolve" to some next stage, its a constantly spiraling web where moving "forwards" or "backwards" has no meaning. Change is not always a positive thing.
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they don't need to have bungie name on it for it to exist.
Oh good more straw-men.
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just cause you guys hate halo 4 an 5 that badly. doesn't mean your everybody. everyone is allowed to like the campaigns an multiplayer.
I actually enjoyed Halo 4's campaign despite some issues I had with it. I would also point out that everyone is also allowed to dislike the campaigns and multiplayer. Has it ever entered your mind that folks might have legitimate reasons to dislike H4 and H5 even if you personally enjoy them?
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now im hearing rumor sof halo infinite killing locke. im concern about you guys alienating other people enjoyment of halo 4 an 5.
You shouldn't put too much stock into toy reveals. That being said, if 343 were to kill off Locke that reflects badly on 343, not the community. If 343's first response to a lukewarm reception to a new character is just to kill them off it just goes to show 343 is creatively bankrupt and shouldn't be in charge of Halo, or anything else honestly.
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you guys don't need to brag constantly of telling others you can't like them cause they aint bungie.
Please show me someone who is saying this besides you.
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new ips always fail. halo has to have new ideas. new characters. master chief voice actor is not immortal. hes going to die soon. there not ending halo to just master chief.
My point about new IPs is that if 343 wants full creative control they shouldn't have joined a studio dedicated to a long running franchise. Also lol at "new Ips always fail" but I digress. The Halo community is not obligated to accept a certain number of "new" ideas simply because they are new. Being "new" doesn't automatically make an idea worth pursuing. Sometimes developers have bad ideas and I am including both Bungie and 343 in this. Stop blaming the community for the failures of developers.
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i was hoping halo wars to have 3, but you guys killed it cause it wans't master cheif or first person shooter. you gusy are limiting the franchise to be fps only.

im sorry, but this needs to be said. we all have to discuss it eventually.

you guys can't keep killing spin-offs caus ethey aint master chief only. or arrbiter only. cause it needs new characters.

i know all of you want horror spin-off, they won't make it. you gusy don't want new characters.
Oh please an RTS spin-off of an FPS franchise was always going to have a niche audience and due to its very simple mechanics built for consoles it was never going to reach a hardcore RTS audience either. The market for something like Halo Wars was always limited, the fact that it got a sequel in the first place is amazing enough and this is coming from someone who enjoyed Halo Wars for what it was. If you want to blame anyone blame Microsoft keeping Halo console only for so long.

Apparently Halo fans are supposed to just shut up and uncritically accept anything we are given lest we "tell them how to make their game."
People sharing their ideas on what they believe Halo should be like falls into the scope of this forum. Voicing one's opinion is not the same as telling 343i how to do their job, and it is worth remembering that they are people capable of independent thought: just because someone says they should do something doesn't mean they will. That goes both ways, of course: everyone should post with the understanding that they are primarily here for recreation, not giving direct guidance to 343i.

You, OP, are of course free to disagree with other people's preferences, but creating a thread telling people not to discuss their preferences runs completely counter to the spirit and purpose of this forum.