Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Why flood and banished should not be in infinite

OP OptimumCactus73

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. 2
Halo infinite should not have flood and banished . They should be left for the upcoming sequels. Here's why: halo 4 and halo 5 introduced us to so many new characters . Some of them are desirableand some arenot . Now the main problem with halo 5 was that there was so many characters and the game wasnt able to focus on any of them. This led to a terrible narration of story of halo 5. Now infinite would have to tell what happens to character like fireteam Osiris,Sarah Palmer ,warden etc. So adding more characters (flood and banished) would again create a messy game which would not be able to focus on master chief as intended and that would to result to again a poor narration of a story which was intended to be good. What do you guys think
Halo 3 > Flood, Covenant, Elites & Humanity

just one example of early games and its factions and how all of them all meshed together to create such a tense atmosphere for the game.

I'm all for having the banished in the game as at the moment weren't the remnants of the Covenant finally destroyed leaving a hole for possible enemies and even if the flood did return as long as the story made sense I'd love it.

not to go running off with a pun here but its Infinite for a reason with the infinite possibilities ;)
Halo 3 > Flood, Covenant, Elites & Humanity

just one example of early games and its factions and how all of them all meshed together to create such a tense atmosphere for the game.
This here is an excellent point. Most of the games included multiple factions. Too many factions has never been the issue. The issue has been too many characters.

Each faction had one main character in H3:
  • Flood: Gravemind
  • Covenant: Truth
  • Elites: Arbiter
  • Humanity: Chief
Contrast that with H5:
  • Prometheans: Cortana and Warden Eternal
  • Elites: Jul m'dama and Arbiter
  • Humanity: John, Fred, Kelly, Linda, Locke, Vale, Tanaka, and Buck
There were plenty of other characters with too much screen time in H5, but I wouldn't consider any of them to be main characters. So in short, H3 had a concise and clear representative for each faction while H5 crowded the field.

Reach and ODST both managed to have ensemble casts, so the obvious question would be, why did those work but H5 didn't? The simple answer is that Reach actually did receive criticism for not developing the characters, and having to split screen time amongst each of them. The reason it did well imo is that Reach was about the planet Reach, not about the characters. So the lack of character development was fine. ODST's narrative style actually promoted character development since each level focused on one of the characters.

Rant over lol.
I agree that the Flood and Banished should not be prominent enemies in Infinite, but for different reasons.

Narratively, neither were in a position after Halo 5 to assume the role of a primary antagonist. The Banished were still in the midst of a war with the Spirit of Fire, and their reasons for going to the Ark were not resolved. For them to appear in Infinite in any significant capacity would suggest they abandoned their campaign at the Ark, and we’d need explanation of what happened to the Ark, the Spirit of Fire, and how the Banished repaired their carrier to get their forces back into the galaxy. As for the Flood, the only known major Flood outbreak is on the Ark, having been pushed back into containment by the Banished. For the flood to return, it would mean the infestation at the Ark escaped, or a new infestation appeared randomly from somewhere else. The lore states that the UNSC has been on Zeta Halo (a likely location in Infinite) for many years, and have never reported any Flood activity, so it stands to reason there is no current outbreak on that ring. It’s possible that an outbreak could occur at some point during the events of the game, but that wouldn’t really carry the same impact as it did in CE. People know better than to mess with the Flood these days, unlike in CE when the flood were still a mystery. A character in Infinite would have to be pretty foolish to release the Flood. Also, I don’t subscribe to the “Cortana logic plague” theory that some people believe in.
You people are correct but take my another example ,343 have introduced way advance movements in halo 4 and halo 5. if sprint, armour charge, ground pound were to exist in halo infinite ,flood would be a total joke. They would be so easy to kill no matter how advance they got since halo 3.
I don't think adding Banished and Flood would take away from Chief at all. Whatever happens I just want the created stuff to be dealt with.
I don't think adding Banished and Flood would take away from Chief at all. Whatever happens I just want the created stuff to be dealt with.
I don't think that either but halo infinite already have so many characters and it would merely leave space for them.
This upcoming halo has been stated to be a spiritual reboot for the series. They've said that they are going back to the drawing board and assesing much of the previous games (including h5 and 4) for content that fans have generally found appalling over the years.

With that, we should take a look at the flood or banished objectively. The Flood are something people want to see, and the lore could be made to accommodate that. The biggest concern however I have encountered with people is that some do not injoy the gameplay surrounding them. It may be a minority, but that could potentially be a reason for 343 to tred carefully on them.

As for the Banished, they're generally pretty cool. But unless they have a reason for being on the Halo in Infinite then it seems a bit out of place.

Keep in mind, I would love to see both return. But like many others I want there return to not only have impact but feel good (as far as a parasite and vicious warriors can feel good anyways). If you've seen the new star wars, that's kinda' an example of a return that was deeply forced for the sake of fan service, and I really don't want Halo to go there.
I guess I will love to see the return of the Flood as the game is likely to be taking place on Zeta halo, a ring famous for the many proto graveminds. As for Banished, perhaps a small presence will be enough, likely at the end. It would be interesting to know about Cortana's Created forces an what species have joined her.
However, the return of the Brutes and Drones would definitely still be a good idea because why the hell should we keep fighting the same three enemies again and again? That’s starting to tire out many people.
Quite the opposite for me actually. I want nothing more than for the Banished and Flood to be in Infinite.
I was hoping the Banished would come in and replace the Covenant in Infinite...M'dama is dead, and the Arbiter said that the Storm Covenant's last major stronghold was Sunaion, which appeared to be reclaimed by the Swords of Sanghelios by the end of Halo 5. The Covenant are in desperate need of a retooling - having the Banished replace them as a more Brute-focused, outcast and industrial faction would be amazing and refreshing, especially since Brutes have always been my favorite.

I guess we have to think in terms of Cortana and what her army of AI would use as an army. Prior titles suggest it would be the Prometheans again, but everything we know about Infinite suggests Prometheans won't even appear in the story, which is fine by me. So I have no idea what faction Cortana would have under her command.

As for the flood, I'm not the biggest fan, but if it makes veterans happy I guess I'm fine with it. As long as the Flood are implemented like they were in Halo 2 (ie not pouring out of every Yoink!-ing crevice like in C.E., or how ridiculous it got with the forms in 3) I'd be happy.

So in conlusion, if the factions in Infinite are Humanity, Banished, and the Flood, with Cortana presumably leading either the Banished or Flood, that's 3 factions and more than reasonable. It doesn't matter if humanity includes Chief, Osiris, Lasky, Palmer, BroHammer, etc.- they're all team humanity.
I honestly can do without Lock and his team. I wouldn't mind if the flood came back. Kind of hoping they do (as a surprise during one of the campaign missions). In my opinion the prometheans aren't fun to fight. Kind of hoping they aren't a big part of Infinite. Never really played Halo Wars so I can't say if they should be or not. I agree about what you said for Halo 5. In the end whatever 343 decides to do, I'm just really looking forward in a new Halo game.
I honestly can do without Lock and his team. I wouldn't mind if the flood came back. Kind of hoping they do (as a surprise during one of the campaign missions). In my opinion the prometheans aren't fun to fight. Kind of hoping they aren't a big part of Infinite. Never really played Halo Wars so I can't say if they should be or not. I agree about what you said for Halo 5. In the end whatever 343 decides to do, I'm just really looking forward in a new Halo game.
To this point- many of the characters and plot entanglements introduced in H4-5 mentioned by OP have not been especially popular with large swaths of the fanbase.

In many respects, the increased emphasis on Forerunner everything in H4 was a polarizing choice, especially at the time. Also, characters like Palmer and Fireteam Majestic were contraversial from the start. Osiris, aside from Buck, also suffer from being deeply divisive in terms of fan reception. Cortana and her Created was, as far as I've ever been able to determine, a plot referendum due to the vocal backlash against the Didact/Librarian stuff from Halo 4- only, it didn't go over all that much better.

The reason that there's a vocal subset of the community that are cheering for Flood and/or Banished to be involved in Infinite is that these forces are established and well-liked (in the case of the Flood) and exciting and compelling (in the case of the Banished). So I totally get why people would rather have these more unilaterally liked elements in the game vs rehashing again on the contraversial elements from H4-5.

However, I ultimately think that the game does put itself at undue risk by creating too much involvement from too many factions. It can be done well, as cited above with Halo 3. But I think the safer and more cathartic route for this game to go is to refocus on Chief and Cortana's conflict in the same way that Halo 4 focused on their comradery. Bring to the forefront the oft-cited contradictions in Chief's character between the OT and the Reclaimer games, and let his sense of loyalty and duty to Cortana spar out with his sense of loyalty and duty to the freedom and security of Humanity.

Maybe the game can fit all these factions into it and still tell that story of human tragedy and conflict well. But why overstuff it and risk losing the important core? I think that if we can assume that there will be the forces of the Created/Promethians, the Covenant (Arbies' and/or oppositional Covie loyalists), and a cornered UNSC, that's certainly enough to create some very interesting plot around. Maybe there's room for some Flood something or other in that picture too, but for many of the same reasons others have cited above, I don't know that that's necessary/makes sense.
Unfortunately, Halo 5 abolished any attempt at cohesion across the Reclaimer Saga. Leaving the Didact behind, turning Cortana into a villain (which I was never completely against, but the execution was terrible), switching the central protagonist of the game, introducing new main characters without even a hint of where they came from in-game, changing the movement mechanics of Halo entirely, breaking the levels up into extremely linear mini-chapters instead of full levels, introducing an entirely new galactic threat in the Guardians without any foreshadowing in previous titles, etc. - I think it's clear that the Reclaimer Saga fell with Halo 5. Halo: Infinite is a chance to start over; a new beginning. Hopefully this time, they manage to develop one overarching coherent story. We haven't seen that since the Halo Trilogy, which ended thirteen years ago!

Halo: Infinite needs to treat itself as both a standalone and the start of a new story. As such, I'm fine with Banished, Flood, redesigned Prometheans or a new faction appearing in the game, but they need to be introduced properly. None of this Halo 4/5 business of leaving the backstory to other media and shoving in confusing monologues of exposition within a single cutscene. The story needs to be clear and enticing for long-time Halo fans and newcomers alike.
I honestly can do without Lock and his team. I wouldn't mind if the flood came back. Kind of hoping they do (as a surprise during one of the campaign missions). In my opinion the prometheans aren't fun to fight. Kind of hoping they aren't a big part of Infinite. Never really played Halo Wars so I can't say if they should be or not. I agree about what you said for Halo 5. In the end whatever 343 decides to do, I'm just really looking forward in a new Halo game.
In many respects, the increased emphasis on Forerunner everything in H4 was a polarizing choice, especially at the time. Also, characters like Palmer and Fireteam Majestic were contraversial from the start. Osiris, aside from Buck, also suffer from being deeply divisive in terms of fan reception. Cortana and her Created was, as far as I've ever been able to determine, a plot referendum due to the vocal backlash against the Didact/Librarian stuff from Halo 4- only, it didn't go over all that much better.
It went over a lot worse. 343i were clearly going somewhere with the Didact and Librarian before they abandoned them completely. They missed the problem entirely. The issue was never with the Didact or Librarian but rather the execution of these characters in Halo 4, and it really was never that bad. Rather, the way in which the Forerunner/Promethean element of Halo 4's story was told was a little lacking. The Didact should have returned for Halo 5 in spectacular fashion - with improvements and clear motives. If Halo 5 had been done properly, Halo 6 would be the completion of an absolutely amazing Halo trilogy, the second amazing Halo trilogy. 343i should have blown people away with everything they learnt from Halo 4 as well as the incredible story they should have developed for the rest of the Reclaimer Saga. Now, Halo: Infinite is forced to start over.
On a side note, regarding "Forerunner everything", nothing in Halo 4 or 5 truly felt Forerunner to me - And this is 100% due to the artstyle and sound direction. Fingers crossed Infinite does it right.
If the flood and the banished are in Infinite, that could possibly lead the spirit of fire to meeting chief? After all can't this be the ring professor Anders is on??
At this point I’d prefer it to be the soft reboot it’s rumored to be. With prominence for flood and covenant species and the prometheans on either a serious rework or a back burner. They are not fun to fight, not interesting, and seem out of place in the world. As for the big picture, it’s gotten too convoluted no matter how you look at it now anyway. I played 1-Reach just fine, read some books and got into it, and then the flurry of content from 4 onward was far too much for me to keep up with. By the time I started Halo 5 I was pretty lost. It seems as though they are trying to make it too “heady” or dramatic or something. When I got into the series at Halo 2, it was Die Hard in Space with an ounce of Doom, and a pinch of Star Wars. Not an Oscar-bait-political-spy-thriller-drama-thing.
I honestly can do without Lock and his team. I wouldn't mind if the flood came back. Kind of hoping they do (as a surprise during one of the campaign missions). In my opinion the prometheans aren't fun to fight. Kind of hoping they aren't a big part of Infinite. Never really played Halo Wars so I can't say if they should be or not. I agree about what you said for Halo 5. In the end whatever 343 decides to do, I'm just really looking forward in a new Halo game.
To this point- many of the characters and plot entanglements introduced in H4-5 mentioned by OP have not been especially popular with large swaths of the fanbase.

In many respects, the increased emphasis on Forerunner everything in H4 was a polarizing choice, especially at the time. Also, characters like Palmer and Fireteam Majestic were contraversial from the start. Osiris, aside from Buck, also suffer from being deeply divisive in terms of fan reception. Cortana and her Created was, as far as I've ever been able to determine, a plot referendum due to the vocal backlash against the Didact/Librarian stuff from Halo 4- only, it didn't go over all that much better.

The reason that there's a vocal subset of the community that are cheering for Flood and/or Banished to be involved in Infinite is that these forces are established and well-liked (in the case of the Flood) and exciting and compelling (in the case of the Banished). So I totally get why people would rather have these more unilaterally liked elements in the game vs rehashing again on the contraversial elements from H4-5.

However, I ultimately think that the game does put itself at undue risk by creating too much involvement from too many factions. It can be done well, as cited above with Halo 3. But I think the safer and more cathartic route for this game to go is to refocus on Chief and Cortana's conflict in the same way that Halo 4 focused on their comradery. Bring to the forefront the oft-cited contradictions in Chief's character between the OT and the Reclaimer games, and let his sense of loyalty and duty to Cortana spar out with his sense of loyalty and duty to the freedom and security of Humanity.

Maybe the game can fit all these factions into it and still tell that story of human tragedy and conflict well. But why overstuff it and risk losing the important core? I think that if we can assume that there will be the forces of the Created/Promethians, the Covenant (Arbies' and/or oppositional Covie loyalists), and a cornered UNSC, that's certainly enough to create some very interesting plot around. Maybe there's room for some Flood something or other in that picture too, but for many of the same reasons others have cited above, I don't know that that's necessary/makes sense.
You really know your stuff. When they introduced the promethians, it kind of ruined the wonder and mystery I had of them. You know the movie The Mist? You weren't really sure what was out there and it created it's own imagination in your head. That's the scary part. Like the origin of the Flood (home world). I think I saw someone talk about the Flood arriving from a different galaxy. So there could be a lot more to them than we know. Could be wrong about that though.
though i said that with the more advanced movements 343i like to keep within characters , flood would become a complete joke. but if they come up with more ,far the knowledge of human,coventant, and perhaps the cortana, , advanced flood themselves ,it would be very fun to fight them like in that cutscene of halo wars 2 where vordius's force was easily overwhelmed buy the flood. about the banished, i think they are not quite well developed for being in halo infinite . as of spirit of fire , i would want them to be in halo ifinite in case the infinity get destroyed or infected.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. 2