Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Why Halo Infinite NEEDS Advanced Mobility. But...

OP SniperLocke25

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Okay, here it is...

Advanced mobility has to stay, because too many players now prefer it. The Halo 3 days are gone, and most of the classic movement fanbase have just simply... grown up. There would not be a massive influx of players, Halo would not be #1 again, and the old days wouldn't come back. Most of Halo's fanbase now are newer fans. By newer fans I mean that they joined the Halo franchise from Halo Reach to present. Returning back to a Halo 3 style mobility system would cripple the larger part of the fanbase, and put the much awaited Halo Infinite into the dirt.

The Solution- Both.

Much as in Halo 5, we have ranked and social playlists, and in Master Chief Collection, there is the Match Composer, Why shouldn't we be able to choose? With at least a four year development cycle, something along these lines is entirely possible. Imagine not choosing only ranked or social, but classic or modern movement. You can play ranked BR Slayer on classic movement, or jump into some Super Fiesta, and thrust to your heart's content.

I believe that a system like this, one that would avoid alienating a significant part of the fanbase, is what the next Halo installment needs. If this next game is truly to be something greater than all before it, and something more alive, and something that encourages people to come back, it can't pick one or the other for the player, it has to let the player pick for themselves.
While I would like Halo to be the top dog again, and I have my own ideas and thoughts on how Halo should function and handle things, I am not going to say that my things are the best thing for Halo and that it'll bring in a lot of players. Not only that, but there's really no evidence showcasing how it'd go for Halo 6 if advanced movement was removed, just like there's none for how it'll go if it's kept.

Ultimately, a game's success comes down to the gameplay, not individual mechanics which happen to be present in the game.

As far as "splitting" the game up like suggested, and which has been suggested before. I do not like that because tjere's a high chance the "classic" side will not be optimised, that it'll recieve less focus, and it creates a disconnect between the two modes. If you're going to adress many of the issues people have with this suggestion, i343 should just as well make two Halo games instead.
Naqser wrote:
Ultimately, a game's success comes down to the gameplay, not individual mechanics which happen to be present in the game.
This. Individual mechanics can grab someone's attention and get them started, but the story is what keeps people coming back for more.
Naqser wrote:
Ultimately, a game's success comes down to the gameplay, not individual mechanics which happen to be present in the game.
This. Individual mechanics can grab someone's attention and get them started, but the story is what keeps people coming back for more.
I don't totally agree, I bought God of War and HZD because I like 3rd person action games, the stories were great imo, but after completion there's no reason to go back imo. I found Halo ODST to be the same. I bought CoD 4 for Blackout, it has no campaign. There is more than just one thing that draws us to games. However, the stories were what made GoW and HZD, and multiplayer is what makes CoD 4. Halo needs everything imo, not just a good story.
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
You can't put both mobility systems in one game and expect it to be balanced. Separate sets of weapons and maps, not to mention very specific things like hit boxes, would have to be made for both movement types. At that point you've basically made two games. Or you make them for both and they suck for both. This would also divide the player base, which is already small enough compared to other big multiplayer games of today. I fear no matter what kind of game H6 is, Halo as a whole will never really recover, thanks to the decisions made from Reach to H5.
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back. Halo 5 plays extremely well. Wether or not you believe that advanced mobility belongs in Halo, you have to admit the game works well. It does advanced mobility very well, maybe with a few shortcomings. But as I was saying, the reason people like classic halo is the nostalgia, and I personally think that MCC is a much better game to feed off of the nostalgia crave than halo Infinite.
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back. Halo 5 plays extremely well. Wether or not you believe that advanced mobility belongs in Halo, you have to admit the game works well. It does advanced mobility very well, maybe with a few shortcomings. But as I was saying, the reason people like classic halo is the nostalgia, and I personally think that MCC is a much better game to feed off of the nostalgia crave than halo Infinite.
to pin the success of the upcoming halo 3 4v4 tournament just on nostalgia is to simple. the same thing would be if i claim, that the advanced movement mechacnics trend is about to be over and a game with these kind of movement wouldn't be successfull (to support this i could say that CoD:BO4 turned the advanced mobility down). also there is no data to support any of these claims.
likewise there is no data that a classic halo game would do better or worse than halo 5. i agree that it plays well, but i find the halo 5 gameplay not my cup of tea. thats not bc i don't like this advanced movements per se (i really enjoy titanfall 2 for example) but for me i'll choose a classic halo over a halo with halo 5s movement any day and it never really convinced me, but thats just my opinion.
in reality there is no way of knowing what kind of movement would be better for halo infinite, people can only make assumptions based on their own preference, which is totally fine.
the only possible way would be to release the same game twice with the different movement mechanics. both games need to be fully flashed out for both respective movement mechanics and even then there are more factors which may have to be considered... (and that take up to much ressources and would just be stupid from a buisness standpoint)
I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that a "new generation," of Halo players would dislike or even disprefer mechanics informed or inspired by classic Halo.

There's a serious popcultural fascination with the throwback, and Halo reclaiming its prime and successfully modernizing its presentation (rather than trying to modernize the whole game via mechanics and game design), I can easily see the game bringing in a large swath of brand new players who just want to see what this "New, old school," Halo game is like.
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back. Halo 5 plays extremely well. Wether or not you believe that advanced mobility belongs in Halo, you have to admit the game works well. It does advanced mobility very well, maybe with a few shortcomings. But as I was saying, the reason people like classic halo is the nostalgia, and I personally think that MCC is a much better game to feed off of the nostalgia crave than halo Infinite.
If people would like to play Halo 3, they would play Halo 3. People liked the formular. The run & gun formular had never chance to fail, it was getting more and more polished, but yet it was still far away from perfection. Instead of bulding up upon this formular, Bungie decided to take a risk with their last installment and 343 sadly (imo) continued this way.

To your last sentence, how about this: You can also play H4 and Guardians for over 15 years to satisfy your desire for advanced movement.
But these are things from the past, Infinite will be a entirely new game and everything is possible.

@OP: I highly doubt that both formular would work, because the run & gun formular is the exact opposite.
My opinion is obvious - run & gun > run or gun, because I liked how they had implemented (especially the fast pacing) it in the first three games.
Okay, here it is...

Advanced mobility has to stay, because too many players now prefer it. The Halo 3 days are gone, and most of the classic movement fanbase have just simply... grown up. There would not be a massive influx of players, Halo would not be #1 again, and the old days wouldn't come back. Most of Halo's fanbase now are newer fans. By newer fans I mean that they joined the Halo franchise from Halo Reach to present. Returning back to a Halo 3 style mobility system would cripple the larger part of the fanbase, and put the much awaited Halo Infinite into the dirt.

The Solution- Both.

Much as in Halo 5, we have ranked and social playlists, and in Master Chief Collection, there is the Match Composer, Why shouldn't we be able to choose? With at least a four year development cycle, something along these lines is entirely possible. Imagine not choosing only ranked or social, but classic or modern movement. You can play ranked BR Slayer on classic movement, or jump into some Super Fiesta, and thrust to your heart's content.

I believe that a system like this, one that would avoid alienating a significant part of the fanbase, is what the next Halo installment needs. If this next game is truly to be something greater than all before it, and something more alive, and something that encourages people to come back, it can't pick one or the other for the player, it has to let the player pick for themselves.
So many citations needed. Sprint aside, "advanced mobility" has only ever been in one Halo game, the most recent one at that, so claiming that the current population of a 3 year old game that didn't exactly light the world on fire in the first place is now the firm majority is a stretch at best. By this same token you can go back every Halo game and make the same claim in one way or another and claim it simply isn't practical to make any alterations to core gameplay or H4, Reach, H3, H2, etc.

All that aside every time this kind of thing pops up about "well lets just do both" the answer is always the same. "Doing both" is grossly impractical, their needs are far to divergent. While aesthetic assets could be shared(models, textures, some animations, sounds, etc) the actual game design needs are so different as to be in compatible.

When you say "Why not do both?" what you are actually saying is: "Why not do twice the work with the exact same amount of resources?" Either one experience or the other(or both) is going to suffer and its not going to make anyone(broadly speaking) happy. I would argue you only need to look at Halo 5 to see what compromise gets you, a game where both casuals and hardcore players are unhappy for one reason or another while failing to deliver core features like forge at launch.

It never fails to make me laugh whenever the idea of "well we can't possibly alienate this established fanbase" comes up as if that is not exactly what 343 has done already with Halo.
Okay, here it is...

Advanced mobility has to stay, because too many players now prefer it. The Halo 3 days are gone, and most of the classic movement fanbase have just simply... grown up. There would not be a massive influx of players, Halo would not be #1 again, and the old days wouldn't come back. Most of Halo's fanbase now are newer fans. By newer fans I mean that they joined the Halo franchise from Halo Reach to present. Returning back to a Halo 3 style mobility system would cripple the larger part of the fanbase, and put the much awaited Halo Infinite into the dirt.

The Solution- Both.

Much as in Halo 5, we have ranked and social playlists, and in Master Chief Collection, there is the Match Composer, Why shouldn't we be able to choose? With at least a four year development cycle, something along these lines is entirely possible. Imagine not choosing only ranked or social, but classic or modern movement. You can play ranked BR Slayer on classic movement, or jump into some Super Fiesta, and thrust to your heart's content.

I believe that a system like this, one that would avoid alienating a significant part of the fanbase, is what the next Halo installment needs. If this next game is truly to be something greater than all before it, and something more alive, and something that encourages people to come back, it can't pick one or the other for the player, it has to let the player pick for themselves.
Your right it needs to stay. For one reason, not because it works in Halo but because One aspect removed, removes a memory from us all.~ KogaGmente IIIBeing a controversial subject I think the solution is that it's included in Separate Play lists, or Custom Games though. By no mean do I think it would fit in competitive Genre of Halo. Any aspect of Halo should exist in Halo Infinite. This includes Load Outs, but like I said also is opted out for Competitive. COmpetitive Halo should be it's own separated thing. It's a very different vibe to that of Social and normal Slayer. Social Slayer can have classic while Perhaps Rumble pit could have abilites. Whether they really return or not won't ruin Halo for me. It depends if they're fun and fair for both ends of the players that concerns me.
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back. Halo 5 plays extremely well. Wether or not you believe that advanced mobility belongs in Halo, you have to admit the game works well. It does advanced mobility very well, maybe with a few shortcomings. But as I was saying, the reason people like classic halo is the nostalgia, and I personally think that MCC is a much better game to feed off of the nostalgia crave than halo Infinite.
No, we want a f... Halo game! Not because of nostalgia or because of old childhood memories (in my case it would be my teenage years anyway, but details I suppose! 😆 ), we want it because we love arena shooters! And we love the real Halo gameplay! So of course people are going to ask for it in a new game with new mechanics. MCC is a four years old (and not too long ago fairly broken) collection of games we already played for well over a decade now mate! ☺

H5G plays well? That's your opinion. More power to you if you like it, but personally I don't. Problems?Personally I don't enjoy AMM games like TF2 or CoD in general, and when mixed with a high TTK it becomes worse frankly speaking. I want fast paced fights based on skill, not fast moving reaction based experiences.

Sorry that I don't share your taste for gameplay, but it's just that: a preference. Screaming "nostalgia" left and right because you're out of real arguments is meaningless.
The key lies in taking the good parts of both and excluding the bad. Ground pound and spartan charge have basically been exiled by most of the community, seeing as how they are disabled in tournaments and even excluded from the most competitive ranked playlist, Team Arena. I personally don't see much wrong with the thrust because it has it's uses while at the same time not being unstoppable: I've been sniped, headshotted, and killed in other ways while thrusting many times.

If they have Spartan Slayer and Elite slayer in separate playlists (which is most likely what they'll do if they include playable elites), then the spartans can have the thruster and elites have the dash like in Halo Reach. The other day I played a match of Elite Slayer in Halo Reach and it was very interesting using the dash and fighting other who used it. What I noticed is that it really didn't take away from the "Halo experience" and was pretty well balanced seeing as how you're unable to fire while dashing, unlike the spartan thruster.

Here's my official stance on the movement for Halo Infinite: Keep the thruster for the spartan, remove ground pound and spartan charge, and make sprint limited like in Halo Reach and Halo 4. Also, having a ranked Elite Slayer and Elite Arena with maps specific to the dash ability would be pretty awesome, but that's a long stretch.
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back. Halo 5 plays extremely well. Wether or not you believe that advanced mobility belongs in Halo, you have to admit the game works well. It does advanced mobility very well, maybe with a few shortcomings. But as I was saying, the reason people like classic halo is the nostalgia, and I personally think that MCC is a much better game to feed off of the nostalgia crave than halo Infinite.
No, we want a f... Halo game! Not because of nostalgia or because of old childhood memories (in my case it would be my teenage years anyway, but details I suppose! 😆 ), we want it because we love arena shooters! And we love the real Halo gameplay! So of course people are going to ask for it in a new game with new mechanics. MCC is a four years old (and not too long ago fairly broken) collection of games we already played for well over a decade now mate! ☺

H5G plays well? That's your opinion. More power to you if you like it, but personally I don't. Problems?Personally I don't enjoy AMM games like TF2 or CoD in general, and when mixed with a high TTK it becomes worse frankly speaking. I want fast paced fights based on skill, not fast moving reaction based experiences.

Sorry that I don't share your taste for gameplay, but it's just that: a preference. Screaming "nostalgia" left and right because you're out of real arguments is meaningless.
Hey man, all I'm saying is that much of the push for classic movement is nostalgia fueled. You think Halo 5 isn't "Real Halo" and you want "an arena shooter" insinuating Halo 5 isn't, in fact, an arena shooter. (Idk where you were going with that one). spoiler alert, Halo 5 guardians was my first big multiplayer shooter, and Halo 5 is MY "real Halo". I have spent probably about as much time on Halo 5 as anyone has on Halo 3. I haven't touched any other game since it released. I LOVE Halo 5, because how it plays is MY Halo. I'm sure that what Halo 5 is to me is what Halo 3 is to many people. That's why I argue for Both styles. Whether or not this is logistically possible is another topic, but could you imagine how long you could play this game for? how well they could support it? Halo Infinite could push boundaries, shatter obstacles, and go where no other game has even dreamed of going. They have to find a way to appease both sides of the issue, and all I'm saying is MCC is probably as close to "modern-classic" Halo that we're gonna get.
They have to find a way to appease both sides of the issue,
Why?
Why do they need to find a way to appease both sides? That should in my opinion certainly not be an end goal.

Appeasing a certain demography is how we ended up with this mess in the first place.
Halo 4 was, and is, an attempt at cashing in on the "modern shooter" crowd. It was trying to appease a certain crowd.
Halo 5 on the other hand, the e-sports crowd for the Arena, and whatever was in mind with Warzone.

Make a game that is appealing on its own, the whole package should be appealing to players.
Not have mechanics forced in for the sake of "current year", "player expectations" and "popularity".
That only shows the game is not set out to be a quality product from the get-go, but a consumer product.
CSGO, LoL, Overwatch, Rocket League, WoW, Minecraft, to name a few, are popular, not because they copy other succesful games, or shoehorn in mechanics "because raisins".

i343 should make a Halo game implementing mechanics on gameplay basis, not because of popularity, expectations or demand.

Now we can get into a "what's a Halo game" argument, me old halo vs you new Halo, and get no where.

As far as "wanting Halo 3 again" and "nostalgia".
If I wanted to play Halo 3, I'd play Halo 3, I want a Halo which does not follow this "modern shooter" path.
As far as "Nostalgia" goes, perhaps it is liked because it works?
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back.
That's not what I want, and I have no chilhood memories, I was an adult by the time Halo CE dropped, in fact, if that's what the community wanted they would be playing Halo 3 or the MCC. However neither of those games are well supported by the community at large, if they were they would be at the top of the Xbox most played, or higher than they are. I don't want another Halo 3, the FoV alone was terrible and it makes the game feel very slow imo. I will agree that the movement in Halo 5 was ok, I have stated that before, and movement mechanics are just something to get used to imo. However the game lost me for other reasons and I don't think it's a good Halo game.
Hey man, all I'm saying is that much of the push for classic movement is nostalgia fueled.
I don't know how many treads you've read around WP, but 90% of the time here when someone claims it's a nostalgia thing it's just to be dismissive and to ignore any valid points of the community against AMM - especially sprint. i'm not claiming it was your intention, but it comes along like that.

It's not a new discussion either... Sprint exist
in games since the late 90s and I remember pros and con debates of sprint for titles like Quake 2, Counter Strike, Rainbow Six 3 and yes, even HCE in 2001/2. People on WP can write whole paragraphs about the topic, than a H5 fan comes along and discards the user for being blinded by childhood memories. Even though the very same user is a young dude that started playing on H5 and discovered MCC only recently.

Nostalgia fueled has pretty much become an insult here and means more "I don't give a damn about your points, so please shut up" than anything else really. Why not explaining the reasons for why sprint, clamber, ground pound, thrusters and co. are good for Halo instead? Because that would be a real valid point than, one I could respect even if I should disagree. However, if you tell me it's just nostalgia, well, than you're basically telling me that you don't have a real contribution to share.

You think Halo 5 isn't "Real Halo" and you want "an arena shooter" insinuating Halo 5 isn't, in fact, an arena shooter. (Idk where you were going with that one).
Well, to me it doesn't look like a Halo game, it doesn't sound like one and it doesn't play like it either. So no, to me it's not a real Halo experience. And it's not just a matter of sprint alone as much as how the mechanic is implemented. Reach had it, but it worked like a power-up and thanks to that it still plays like Halo.

Also I'm not insinuating, I said it! 😀 And here is why:

Halo 5 is an arena shooter technically speaking because of equal starts, fairly long TTK and weapons likewise power-ups being on the map. Everything else is build like a twitch shooter though, creating a weird hybrid.

In other Halo games every map zone is a battlefield. There are hot spots of course, but due to the fact that everyone can reach max speed without losing any fighting ability makes every enemy interaction thrilling. H5 level-design on the other side is sectioned. There are running corridors, the long range battlefield in the middle, the clamber sections mostly at start, close quarters on the side and one to two high points for ground pound. And maps need to be build like this to accommodate for the base mechanics. Problem is gameplay becomes stale and repetitive because the map design alone dictates your best action to take. When you run, when you climb, when to fight.

It's a game dynamic that reminds me a lot of CoD and Counter Strike, but the first at least has a sense of thrill because it needs little to nothing to die, and the second one requires a lot of skill to aim and changes things around with the bomb placement. TFall2 is another candidate, but its AMM are way better implemented and varied than any other MP game around. It's a CoD like twitch shooter, but the advanced movement it implements is a game by its own, in Halo it makes the core gameplay slower and nothing else. H5 takes all this modern twitch shooter aspects in its arena FPS environment, but reduces the importance of map control and PvP interaction by doing so.

That's why I'm saying H5 is not an arena shooter. And there are plenty of other aspects to tackle on as well, but this pacing issues actions like sprint and climb are my biggest gripes with those hybrid mechanics. ☺

Spoiler alert, Halo 5 guardians was my first big multiplayer shooter, and Halo 5 is MY "real Halo". I have spent probably about as much time on Halo 5 as anyone has on Halo 3. I haven't touched any other game since it released. I LOVE Halo 5, because how it plays is MY Halo. I'm sure that what Halo 5 is to me is what Halo 3 is to many people. That's why I argue for Both styles. Whether or not this is logistically possible is another topic, but could you imagine how long you could play this game for? how well they could support it? Halo Infinite could push boundaries, shatter obstacles, and go where no other game has even dreamed of going. They have to find a way to appease both sides of the issue, and all I'm saying is MCC is probably as close to "modern-classic" Halo that we're gonna get.
I won't get into the logistics discussion, no worries. There are plenty of treads debating it already anyway. And I appreciate that people at least try to find a middle ground, that's for sure! I doubt it can work, but I'm gladly wrong about it!

For the rest I totally get it. If you love H5 of course you'll defend it. What I'm asking is to see our side as well though. Because YOUR Halo has little to nothing to do with the Halo gameplay we old school fans and arena FPS player enjoy. Besides DOOM (which has mostly a SP focus) and not much else there was no real alternative for well over six years now. Maybe more, especially not on consoles. And to create the experience you learned to love so much, to get to this point 343i had to butcher our experience first. 🙃
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back.
Says who? I don't particularly appreciate other people deciding what I want and don't want when I can more than explain my own wants.

It's no different than telling me that you want Halo 5 again since you want advanced mobility.

If any positive emotions towards the previous Halo games can be handwave as nostalgia, can I say that any positive emotions towards Halo 5 is just novelty bias?
Those are some odd assumptions considering the upcoming H3 4v4 event in January has already sold more tickets than any HCS event ever. 128 freakin' teams. People still care about classic Halo and crave that experience.
People don’t want another game like Halo 3, they want Halo 3 again! They want the old days, they want the nostalgia and the fun childhood memories back. Halo 5 plays extremely well. Wether or not you believe that advanced mobility belongs in Halo, you have to admit the game works well. It does advanced mobility very well, maybe with a few shortcomings. But as I was saying, the reason people like classic halo is the nostalgia, and I personally think that MCC is a much better game to feed off of the nostalgia crave than halo Infinite.
I actually want a classic Halo BASED off the originals, I'm not wanting a carbon copy and I get tired of seeing that statement that it's what people want when most really have never said that. Wanting something built off H3 for example doesn't equate to wanting another Halo 3. Halo 2 was based off CE but it wasn't the same, H3 was based off H2 but it wasn't the same.

I also wont admit h5 plays well, I see it playing like trash, not because I dislike it but because the mechanics are at a constant fight with one another and they're more restrictive than what we had before. Give me a reason to admit why H5 is superior over "whether or not you believe" as that's taking the lazy route and it's just vague. I can't move omni-directional with sprint, I can with BMS, I also refuse to see sprint speeding up the pace of the game when you're constantly dropping the animation upon entering a fight. That's a few examples, I can oh so much elaborate on sprints issues, or why clamboring is just hand holding because of the difficulty to croutch jump or the negative effects on trying to use BMS because of "advanced mobility".

I'm also tired of the nostalgia argument, I can give gameplay reasons, that goes beyond "nostalgia". I'm not a fool that thinks the classics are superior just cause of feelings, not when I can make the arguments on the gameplay differences between the two styles. I'd find something better than nostalgia being the classic players problem cause it's not and shows you're missing the reason why people oppose the newer style while favoring the older style. Change isn't the issue, it's what your changing and how that matters. You should try looking inside the sprint thread to get my point.
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