Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Why it is wrong to use old designs

OP Enrico 117

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 8
If you'd say that some of the old designs shouldn't be used because they look, well, old and outdated I'd agree with you. But in this case, 343 can make any excuse within the story to justify the Elites using Covenant tech, because at the end of the day, what matters is visual variety for weapons and factions for gameplay purposes. If they scraped the Covenant for good, I really suspect the fans would go mad, because they'd say somehow it is not Halo.
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I didn't like the covenant portrayal either. Remember when the elites seemed like they were about to rip you to pieces in reach, or they whispered in a very bizarre and alien manner in CE? Or the grunts were either derp but alien or at least funny instead of just annoying? Seriously for every game they speak english a kitten dies. I won't even touch the graphics but I don't like the design. The brutes at least seemed like gorilla-bears instead of orc rejects. The grunts are now like bad clay statues and the elites just a boring lizard man with copy-paste armor. I think these 2 needed to go back anatomically because that's something like that can't be retconned, but they screwed up. The guy replacing atriox is boring and there is nothing that tells them appart from the original covenant. At least in halo 4, where I think they were handled the best post-war, they were kinda smugglers that sided with the prometheans and that's why we could fight them as always but in the story they were nothing and weren't saying "halo 3 never happened and you didn't do a thing to the covenant".
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
xsv wrote:
Chief was designed with the old artstyle in mind, and its one of the few aspects 343 actually got right imo
There are things that work with the old art style and things that don't work anymore. I'm not really sure if Chief design is right or fitting, but I don't see any major design flaws yet, and I agree, he actually looks good. Speaking about the rest though, no mater how much 343 is willing to lie to it self and the community, the overwelming majority of comments about the last trailer, both those who liked it or not, all criticize the graphics in some capacity.
Graphics and Artstyle are two different things though. The more smooth, simplistic designs of both Master Chief and the Covenant (now Banished) have always been this way and in my honest opinion should have never changed. I agree the models for the Banished Brutes could use more sharp edges and the models could use some more grit and scratches, but I don't feel their armor designs are bad. The Elites, Grunts and Jackels finally look like Elites, Grunts and Jackels again, not Brutes in Elite armor, Goblins,and Raptors with shields like they did in 4 and 5. I mean you can have your opinions on the designs, but I feel 343 nailed the more classic designs of these characters.
Art style and design are two different things too, but both are part of the graphics. The art style has been different in every single Halo game till this point, designs have stayd consistent for a few games. Graphics instead are the most criticized thing in the trailer. My critics skip over the graphic fidelity, I would spend days on how bad the graphics are in the new trailer. I totally agree: 343 nailed the old design, but I'm arguing that's not a good thing, it's a bad thing instead. Good design tells a story, bad design doesn't tell any story, awful design tells the wrong story. I don't know if I can be any more clear than this, but the old design, while people may love it or not, has little to do with the Banished. The old design says that the Covenant has never been defeted, and the Banished are the same thing as the Covenant.
The problem with that is though, the designs they had throughout 4 and 5 ruined the lore of the Covenant. The Elites were to big, and brutish to be the warriors they were designed to be. Hell Halo 5's cutscenes showed the issues of the Elites and how slow and bumbling they were. The Grunts can't breathe oxygen, so it makes no sense for them to be designed where their mouth is exposed, the Jackels were excellent marksmen and had extremely good eyesight, and their old design did a great job conveying that while the new design, did not, they looked like they should not be able to hit the broad side of a barn let alone be the terrors they were on Legendary Halo 2. They had designs that complemented their lore and 343 basically designed them, almost the opposite of what they would do. Now they actually feel like themselves again, rather than a bastardized version of them. Also, Halo 2-3's Master Chief is just more iconic, then Halo 4's and 5. The armor just did not work for Cheif and felt more like a hindrance to him that an upgrade. Spartan 2's are supposed to be agile and sleek and Halo 4 and 5's armor did not give off that impression, it made him feel to slow and tankish despite it being the same armor he was wearing. Also the lore in how he got that armor was muddied and just not believable. Also, 343 has stated the Banished are essentially a ''Rebooted' Covenant, so in a sense yes they are not defeated in that since. Also even with the empire gone, you are not going to dissolve an empire that has existed for thousands of years, in less than 10 years, there are still Remnants out there, the Storm Covenant is evidence of that. Also we know nothing about this "Harbinger" 343 mentioned, if I had to make a guess, that is another "Covenant Remnant" that worships Cortana, (I mean that call Cortana made at the end of Halo 5, had to mean something" so the more traditional looking Brutes, Grunts and Jackels might be a part of the "Harbinger' rather than the "Banished" and the Red and Black Brutes are the actual Banished, and we wil see more of them later on. I mean, the fact that Jackels exist, means they have to be a part of another faction considering the Banished did not have Jackels in their ranks.
While I can agree on the fact that Halo 4 and 5 designs have some flaws, I can't say everything is designed worse than before. For example I don't agree on Chief's armor feeling slow and tankish in H4 and H5, I'd definitely say the opposite is true. Even so, I like the new design as much as the old design, not more nor less. Some of the weapons have better design in H4 and H5 than some other weapons in older Halos. So for me there are some goods and some bads in the more recent designs. It's just different, not better nor worse. However that doesn't mean Halo Infinite should go back, at least not in that way, at least not on absolutely everything, including art style, including story(!). I'm Glad too they fixed some of the flaws in their recent designs, but replacing those designs copying Halo 1, 2 and 3 completely is the wrong solution. If you don't like a grunt because it doesn't make sense they have no mask on to breath methane, then for similar reasons, you souldn't be happy the grunts look like they're still part of the Covenant while they're not. Regarding the lore, as you said we don't really know yet what faction those enemies are in, but since they are all defending a Banished AA cannon, I'm gonna assume they are Banished.
I perfectly fine with having new designs, I would just like the new designs not to suck. The new pistol is incredibly generic, meanwhile I'm fine with the new shotgun(though I do think it should have some glow sights). I loathed the sniper and shotgun designs in Halo 4/5, meanwhile I liked the aesthetics of the Storm Rifle despite being a significant departure from the Plasma Rifle in terms of visuals.

Its not about "new bad old good." Or that weapons can't come and go, it is a matter of some folks having issues with these specific designs.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
xsv wrote:
Chief was designed with the old artstyle in mind, and its one of the few aspects 343 actually got right imo
There are things that work with the old art style and things that don't work anymore. I'm not really sure if Chief design is right or fitting, but I don't see any major design flaws yet, and I agree, he actually looks good. Speaking about the rest though, no mater how much 343 is willing to lie to it self and the community, the overwelming majority of comments about the last trailer, both those who liked it or not, all criticize the graphics in some capacity.
Graphics and Artstyle are two different things though. The more smooth, simplistic designs of both Master Chief and the Covenant (now Banished) have always been this way and in my honest opinion should have never changed. I agree the models for the Banished Brutes could use more sharp edges and the models could use some more grit and scratches, but I don't feel their armor designs are bad. The Elites, Grunts and Jackels finally look like Elites, Grunts and Jackels again, not Brutes in Elite armor, Goblins,and Raptors with shields like they did in 4 and 5. I mean you can have your opinions on the designs, but I feel 343 nailed the more classic designs of these characters.
Art style and design are two different things too, but both are part of the graphics. The art style has been different in every single Halo game till this point, designs have stayd consistent for a few games. Graphics instead are the most criticized thing in the trailer. My critics skip over the graphic fidelity, I would spend days on how bad the graphics are in the new trailer. I totally agree: 343 nailed the old design, but I'm arguing that's not a good thing, it's a bad thing instead. Good design tells a story, bad design doesn't tell any story, awful design tells the wrong story. I don't know if I can be any more clear than this, but the old design, while people may love it or not, has little to do with the Banished. The old design says that the Covenant has never been defeted, and the Banished are the same thing as the Covenant.
The problem with that is though, the designs they had throughout 4 and 5 ruined the lore of the Covenant. The Elites were to big, and brutish to be the warriors they were designed to be. Hell Halo 5's cutscenes showed the issues of the Elites and how slow and bumbling they were. The Grunts can't breathe oxygen, so it makes no sense for them to be designed where their mouth is exposed, the Jackels were excellent marksmen and had extremely good eyesight, and their old design did a great job conveying that while the new design, did not, they looked like they should not be able to hit the broad side of a barn let alone be the terrors they were on Legendary Halo 2. They had designs that complemented their lore and 343 basically designed them, almost the opposite of what they would do. Now they actually feel like themselves again, rather than a bastardized version of them. Also, Halo 2-3's Master Chief is just more iconic, then Halo 4's and 5. The armor just did not work for Cheif and felt more like a hindrance to him that an upgrade. Spartan 2's are supposed to be agile and sleek and Halo 4 and 5's armor did not give off that impression, it made him feel to slow and tankish despite it being the same armor he was wearing. Also the lore in how he got that armor was muddied and just not believable. Also, 343 has stated the Banished are essentially a ''Rebooted' Covenant, so in a sense yes they are not defeated in that since. Also even with the empire gone, you are not going to dissolve an empire that has existed for thousands of years, in less than 10 years, there are still Remnants out there, the Storm Covenant is evidence of that. Also we know nothing about this "Harbinger" 343 mentioned, if I had to make a guess, that is another "Covenant Remnant" that worships Cortana, (I mean that call Cortana made at the end of Halo 5, had to mean something" so the more traditional looking Brutes, Grunts and Jackels might be a part of the "Harbinger' rather than the "Banished" and the Red and Black Brutes are the actual Banished, and we wil see more of them later on. I mean, the fact that Jackels exist, means they have to be a part of another faction considering the Banished did not have Jackels in their ranks.
While I can agree on the fact that Halo 4 and 5 designs have some flaws, I can't say everything is designed worse than before. For example I don't agree on Chief's armor feeling slow and tankish in H4 and H5, I'd definitely say the opposite is true. Even so, I like the new design as much as the old design, not more nor less. Some of the weapons have better design in H4 and H5 than some other weapons in older Halos. So for me there are some goods and some bads in the more recent designs. It's just different, not better nor worse. However that doesn't mean Halo Infinite should go back, at least not in that way, at least not on absolutely everything, including art style, including story(!). I'm Glad too they fixed some of the flaws in their recent designs, but replacing those designs copying Halo 1, 2 and 3 completely is the wrong solution. If you don't like a grunt because it doesn't make sense they have no mask on to breath methane, then for similar reasons, you souldn't be happy the grunts look like they're still part of the Covenant while they're not. Regarding the lore, as you said we don't really know yet what faction those enemies are in, but since they are all defending a Banished AA cannon, I'm gonna assume they are Banished.
Then we will have to agree to disagree on Chiefs design, his armor in 4 and 5, just had to much ''noise'' on it, to much of it blended together that it just looked horrible and it just did not look like it offered a lot of mobility compared to his "Bungie" era armor. I can agree I liked "Some'' of Halo 5s weapon designs, but I pretty much hated all of the vehicle designs outside of the Mantis, and Warthog. Also most of those designs did not make sense because they looked like "Upgrades'' when we knew the Storm Covenant were scavengers, so they are supposed to be using old vehicles. I just don't agree, those ''Old designs'' are what created to ''feel'' and ''look'' of Halo, you could look at a Grunt or a Brute and know it was a character from Halo, you could look at Master Chief and recognize he is from Halo, even if you were not a fan. We have spent the last decade to get these characters to look this way, and if you look at the Banished in Halo Wars 2, most of the members in there had their classic designs as well. I can agree, if they are truly a part of the Banished, I can agree the color scheme does not ''fit'' but then thats a problem with how they were colored, and not really their designs. With that said, even with this more ''classic'' design, they still are not 100 hundred percent the same, the Brutes are using different models than their old design, and the Grunts are still using their Halo 4 and 5 phenotypes despite using their "Bungie'' era armor. Also the armor is still slightly different as well, infact the Grunts look like they take more inspiration from the Grunts from Halo Legends, rather than Halo 3. The Banished were able to give the Brutes a ''new'' look while staying true to their design philosophy they had throughout Halo 2-Reach. So there is no reason, the artstyle needed to change. And even still those designs existed in the comics, even in the Storm Covenant
If you'd say that some of the old designs shouldn't be used because they look, well, old and outdated I'd agree with you. But in this case, 343 can make any excuse within the story to justify the Elites using Covenant tech, because at the end of the day, what matters is visual variety for weapons and factions for gameplay purposes. If they scraped the Covenant for good, I really suspect the fans would go mad, because they'd say somehow it is not Halo.
The old designs look very simeple because the old consoles couldn't handle anything much more complex than that, that's the truth. It only worked because those designs fit in the mind set of the various faction in the lore. Right now those designs both feels too old and simeple, as you said, and they also don't fit the lore. I do agree with you on the fact that those designs feel dated, but that is more of a subjective opinion we share. The story telling in the design is much more objectively wrong instead. Unless, as you said, 343 tryes to cover stuff up with some additinal lore, in which case, Halo Infinite has bad design would become more of a subjective opinion. In any case the new enemies should have at least something to show they're part of the Banished.
WerepyreND wrote:
I perfectly fine with having new designs, I would just like the new designs not to suck. The new pistol is incredibly generic, meanwhile I'm fine with the new shotgun(though I do think it should have some glow sights). I loathed the sniper and shotgun designs in Halo 4/5, meanwhile I liked the aesthetics of the Storm Rifle despite being a significant departure from the Plasma Rifle in terms of visuals.

Its not about "new bad old good." Or that weapons can't come and go, it is a matter of some folks having issues with these specific designs.
Even though that's somewhat subjective, I can share what you wrote, I agree with you. I'll be repetitive though and say things get ugly when your designs don't coincide with the story you're telling in such an obvious way.
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I don’t give a -Yoink- about the lore, the game looks like it’s supposed to, and it looks fantastic and not whatever the -Yoink- the last two games were supposed to be, so I plan on buying it unless some other horrible news comes out regarding multiplayer or micro transactions
Well there are no explanations why 2 styles of aliens decided to join forces. My guess the classic elites (Originally the "storm Covenant" but with classic armor) belong to the Harbinger and the Banished are Banished. If you think these designs don't make sense well then you can say the same about Halo Wars 2.
Agree with you.

All these "redesigns" and actual new sub species, phenotypes through the franchises games/ other media could all exist together, for varity for also to be intervowen and explained canonicaly, lore wise. It might be a big effort but REALLY worth it in the long run to clean upp loose ends and mess.

I know the one part in Halo 5 where the Arbiter had the new sangheili/ elite looks were a doozy bummer. But sure got corrected in H2A new cutscenes. So kudos for that.

As I see it. The jiralhanae brutes have at least 3 subspecies. the ones from H2A, the H3 ones and the Halo Wars 2/ Infinite ones. Some are more savage, some are overall bigger, stronger and some are more agile. All could play role gameplay wise.

Also the Kig Yar. The Jackals have two sub species and the Skirmishers one.

Grunts, or unggoy migth have 3 subspecies too. The one from Halo 3, 4/ 5 and Infinite.

The Elite sangheili seems to have several subspecies or phenotypes at least as well.
The classic, darker grey skinned ones from Halo 2 A, the Halo 3 ones but those are more brown skinned so in comparison to H2A ones those are for each others phenotypes. Then you have the very agressive and nimbler elites form Halo reach which have lighter greyish skin, darker eyes ( more of an oversight ) and then we have the halo 4/ 5 elites which seems more stronger, kinda dumber?.
Another phenotype or even possible a phenotype is the Elites from Halo Wars 1, those seemed taller, slimmer waists and also a different setup for their head, mandibles etc.

In fact all the looks ever seen can be explained, intervowen and made clear for lore/ canon sake with reasons of roles, where on their homeplanet/ moons ( s ) and home systems ( s ) they evolved.
Like the Skirmishers, the T'vao orignated from the Kig Yar homeworld of Eayn but settled outside of their homeplanet and evolved much more differently than their fellow Ibie'shan ( halo 4/ 5 ) and Ruuthians ( standard jackals ).

they made a good job of explaining those, so why not the other races? Im sure I might miss some infobits so feel free to give input.
Also they could update all those subspecies, races i ngenral and phenotypes with next gen graphics for full glory... eventually.
It's difficult to pass judgement on a game without actually playing it first OP. If you're going to openly announce that you won't be playing 343's game, what incentive does 343 have to listen to your suggestions about how to improve their game?
Op is talking about graphics and art style....not the same as 'gameplay'. Yes some people may choose to avoid Infinite but valid criticism should be listened to since it can effect the general fanbase, future sales. Playing a game doesn't suddenly change how a game looks.
Enrico 117 wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
I perfectly fine with having new designs, I would just like the new designs not to suck. The new pistol is incredibly generic, meanwhile I'm fine with the new shotgun(though I do think it should have some glow sights). I loathed the sniper and shotgun designs in Halo 4/5, meanwhile I liked the aesthetics of the Storm Rifle despite being a significant departure from the Plasma Rifle in terms of visuals.

Its not about "new bad old good." Or that weapons can't come and go, it is a matter of some folks having issues with these specific designs.
Even though that somewhat subjective, I can share what you wrote, I agree with you. I'll be repetitive though and say things get ugly when your designs don't coincide with story you're telling in such an obvious way.
Deciding what designs "coincide with the story you're telling" is just as subjective. Halo 5 had a more consistent design philosophy than Halo 4 did but it doesn't mean that folks didn't have a problem with individual designs.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Trick question, It's not wrong.
There's really no question at all.
Exactly, it's definitely not wrong.

Glad we could see eye to eye on this, for a moment I thought you were serious!!
I see, you like to make jokes then.
I do, but using it to make a point as well.

As much as I liked the realism of 4&5, the older art direction was better, peaked at 3.

Plus, it's what the community at large want and they're not about to change the entire art style, so really the argument is irrelevant.
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I disagree, cause they used the old designs on most things, so your argument doesn't make sense
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I don’t give a -Yoink- about the lore, the game looks like it’s supposed to, and it looks fantastic and not whatever the -Yoink- the last two games were supposed to be, so I plan on buying it unless some other horrible news comes out regarding multiplayer or micro transactions
If you don't care about the lore, why do you care about the campaign at all? You should just play the multiplayer and enjoy older Halo campaigns, not hold back the new Halo for some nostalgic reasons. Imo Halo Infinite souldn't keep looking and feeling exactly like it's a game from 2006, there's already Halo MCC for that.
reverting to the old design is very bad! this means that 343 does not assume halo 4 and 5! while their armor is just sublime, very well thought out (functional). making an open world is also a gross error because the rhythm of the campaign which was one of the strong points of Halo will be fragmented because of repetitive side quests and without interest! Halo should keep its identity that's what makes its strength! you should never copy bungie and their destiny, or other games like rage 2 / far cry 3/4/5 !

343 is crashing down the line !

open world
graphics dating from 10 years ago
return to armor because 2/3 fat mourners are just nostagic
shock announcements that evaporate.

343 denies their baby
It's a video game, and people like those weapons and associate them with the series.

The Banished steal all the weapons they can get their hands on.

Cortana has basically shut down production of weapons.

There's nothing wrong with using old weapons as long as they do what you need them to do.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
xsv wrote:
Chief was designed with the old artstyle in mind, and its one of the few aspects 343 actually got right imo
There are things that work with the old art style and things that don't work anymore. I'm not really sure if Chief design is right or fitting, but I don't see any major design flaws yet, and I agree, he actually looks good. Speaking about the rest though, no mater how much 343 is willing to lie to it self and the community, the overwelming majority of comments about the last trailer, both those who liked it or not, all criticize the graphics in some capacity.
Graphics and Artstyle are two different things though. The more smooth, simplistic designs of both Master Chief and the Covenant (now Banished) have always been this way and in my honest opinion should have never changed. I agree the models for the Banished Brutes could use more sharp edges and the models could use some more grit and scratches, but I don't feel their armor designs are bad. The Elites, Grunts and Jackels finally look like Elites, Grunts and Jackels again, not Brutes in Elite armor, Goblins,and Raptors with shields like they did in 4 and 5. I mean you can have your opinions on the designs, but I feel 343 nailed the more classic designs of these characters.
Art style and design are two different things too, but both are part of the graphics. The art style has been different in every single Halo game till this point, designs have stayd consistent for a few games. Graphics instead are the most criticized thing in the trailer. My critics skip over the graphic fidelity, I would spend days on how bad the graphics are in the new trailer. I totally agree: 343 nailed the old design, but I'm arguing that's not a good thing, it's a bad thing instead. Good design tells a story, bad design doesn't tell any story, awful design tells the wrong story. I don't know if I can be any more clear than this, but the old design, while people may love it or not, has little to do with the Banished. The old design says that the Covenant has never been defeted, and the Banished are the same thing as the Covenant.
Let me retract something I wrote here. While I think 343 got very close to the original design of the covenant, I shouldn't say I think they completely nailed it. Elites look estetically similar to Bungie's elites at first glance, but the actually feel smaller than Chief, way less intimidating and still stupid like the usuale 343 Elites. Grunts have always been short and wide, with very large hands and very smal legs, in the new trailer they look almost like tiny humans. Brutes have no fur at all and don't move like Bungie's angry brutes, they move like humans. Jakals look like they used to, just a bit awkwardly skinny when looking at their profile. Imo the nostalgic Halo fans should still be mad, because Elites aren't intimidating, Grunts are less stylized and Brutes aren't savage-like. Also the human weapons design are honestly the worst among every single Halo.
Well there are no explanations why 2 styles of aliens decided to join forces. My guess the classic elites (Originally the "storm Covenant" but with classic armor) belong to the Harbinger and the Banished are Banished. If you think these designs don't make sense well then you can say the same about Halo Wars 2.
Agree with you.

All these "redesigns" and actual new sub species, phenotypes through the franchises games/ other media could all exist together, for varity for also to be intervowen and explained canonicaly, lore wise. It might be a big effort but REALLY worth it in the long run to clean upp loose ends and mess.

I know the one part in Halo 5 where the Arbiter had the new sangheili/ elite looks were a doozy bummer. But sure got corrected in H2A new cutscenes. So kudos for that.

As I see it. The jiralhanae brutes have at least 3 subspecies. the ones from H2A, the H3 ones and the Halo Wars 2/ Infinite ones. Some are more savage, some are overall bigger, stronger and some are more agile. All could play role gameplay wise.

Also the Kig Yar. The Jackals have two sub species and the Skirmishers one.

Grunts, or unggoy migth have 3 subspecies too. The one from Halo 3, 4/ 5 and Infinite.

The Elite sangheili seems to have several subspecies or phenotypes at least as well.
The classic, darker grey skinned ones from Halo 2 A, the Halo 3 ones but those are more brown skinned so in comparison to H2A ones those are for each others phenotypes. Then you have the very agressive and nimbler elites form Halo reach which have lighter greyish skin, darker eyes ( more of an oversight ) and then we have the halo 4/ 5 elites which seems more stronger, kinda dumber?.
Another phenotype or even possible a phenotype is the Elites from Halo Wars 1, those seemed taller, slimmer waists and also a different setup for their head, mandibles etc.

In fact all the looks ever seen can be explained, intervowen and made clear for lore/ canon sake with reasons of roles, where on their homeplanet/ moons ( s ) and home systems ( s ) they evolved.
Like the Skirmishers, the T'vao orignated from the Kig Yar homeworld of Eayn but settled outside of their homeplanet and evolved much more differently than their fellow Ibie'shan ( halo 4/ 5 ) and Ruuthians ( standard jackals ).

they made a good job of explaining those, so why not the other races? Im sure I might miss some infobits so feel free to give input.
Also they could update all those subspecies, races i ngenral and phenotypes with next gen graphics for full glory... eventually.
Alright, why this excuse is ok for every single design of every phenotype of every species in every single Halo except Halo 4 and 5? People still hate only the ones in Halo 4 and 5. You're ok with Banished enemies looking just like the old Covenant enemies because of some lore excuse they might make up in the future, but lore excuses are not enough to justify the design of the Storm Covenant in Halo 4 and 5? At least 343 actually made an effort to make the more recent Elites fit the lore a bit, but as of now they completely disregarded the Banished design philosophy in Halo Infinite.
ronnie42 wrote:
It's difficult to pass judgement on a game without actually playing it first OP. If you're going to openly announce that you won't be playing 343's game, what incentive does 343 have to listen to your suggestions about how to improve their game?
Op is talking about graphics and art style....not the same as 'gameplay'. Yes some people may choose to avoid Infinite but valid criticism should be listened to since it can effect the general fanbase, future sales. Playing a game doesn't suddenly change how a game looks.
Yes, right, although there are way more issues I have with that trailer besides graphics, ronnie42 is right in saying I'm just talking about the design here. Because it's the only thing I can more "objectively" (design is still a subjective matter, but when design rules are broken it becomes somewhat objective) talk about.
WerepyreND wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
I perfectly fine with having new designs, I would just like the new designs not to suck. The new pistol is incredibly generic, meanwhile I'm fine with the new shotgun(though I do think it should have some glow sights). I loathed the sniper and shotgun designs in Halo 4/5, meanwhile I liked the aesthetics of the Storm Rifle despite being a significant departure from the Plasma Rifle in terms of visuals.

Its not about "new bad old good." Or that weapons can't come and go, it is a matter of some folks having issues with these specific designs.
Even though that somewhat subjective, I can share what you wrote, I agree with you. I'll be repetitive though and say things get ugly when your designs don't coincide with story you're telling in such an obvious way.
Deciding what designs "coincide with the story you're telling" is just as subjective. Halo 5 had a more consistent design philosophy than Halo 4 did but it doesn't mean that folks didn't have a problem with individual designs.
Yeah, design is a subjective matter, and Halo 4 and 5 had their flaws too, I agree there, but when you design a man where a story describes a woman, then the design does not "coincide with the story you're telling", in an objective way. It's not always subjective. Halo Infinite kinda does that: the story tells you're being attacked by the Banished, but when you go fight you don't find any Banished anymore(?) What happened there? Why is the Covenant back?
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 8