Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Why it is wrong to use old designs

OP Enrico 117

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 4
  4. 5
  5. 6
  6. 7
  7. ...
  8. 8
It does feel off, hopefully it will be explained.
But remember, they are not banished, they are basically hired by the banished and might have another way of thinking.
Enrico 117 wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
surfer45 wrote:
Well if we actually look at HW2 the only things that were given the banished look were the brutes an
their vehicles/weapons and structures (which infinite could do better on structures) The elites and grunts still sported their original look just with shades of red and grey, and some art even depicted them as blue. Elites in the banished were just hired mercenaries with the shipmaster dude as their leader. So technically did they really have to follow the looks? I like the colors its easy to tell the ranks again and know when you are about to get dead.
Yeah, not to mention, most of the color scheme in that game, was due to keep things consistent, and to keep from confusing the player as to which units they can control. You can't just take a design in an RTS and bring it into the game, that was the only mistake (so far) I can see 343 doing by bringing in the Banished Phantom. You kind of have to( to a degree) redesign some things to get them to fit better in an fps setting. So the armor from that game was never going to be a point by point recreation.
There could be multiple versions of each design. IE, we saw a Banished phantom but we could also see a Covenant Phantom, Harbinger cruiser, etc. There is more than likely much more to this game than what was shown.
I would be happy if that was the case.
Me too, Halo 5 had the Spirit Cruiser as well as the Phantom so I don’t see why not.
Dang you take this very seriously, I respect it. Personally though, i just think it looks good so I like it lol To be fair to Infinite though, there might be good reasoning there is a mix of different styles, we'll have to wait and see. If it does turn out that there is a good lore explanation for it, would you play it?
There are many more things I didn't like in the trailer. Along with the designs they would have to change the art style almost completely, improve graphic fidelity, use a good antagonist, improve the AI, bring some fresh gameplay meccanics, innovate instead of remixing the same old stuff, add at least one thing that can only be done in Halo Infinite and no other game can do.
Enrico 117 wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
surfer45 wrote:
Well if we actually look at HW2 the only things that were given the banished look were the brutes an
their vehicles/weapons and structures (which infinite could do better on structures) The elites and grunts still sported their original look just with shades of red and grey, and some art even depicted them as blue. Elites in the banished were just hired mercenaries with the shipmaster dude as their leader. So technically did they really have to follow the looks? I like the colors its easy to tell the ranks again and know when you are about to get dead.
Yeah, not to mention, most of the color scheme in that game, was due to keep things consistent, and to keep from confusing the player as to which units they can control. You can't just take a design in an RTS and bring it into the game, that was the only mistake (so far) I can see 343 doing by bringing in the Banished Phantom. You kind of have to( to a degree) redesign some things to get them to fit better in an fps setting. So the armor from that game was never going to be a point by point recreation.
There could be multiple versions of each design. IE, we saw a Banished phantom but we could also see a Covenant Phantom, Harbinger cruiser, etc. There is more than likely much more to this game than what was shown.
Oh, most definitely there is more we have not seen yet, which is why I wish this community would wait and let more be revealed, before, making final judgments. Its possible, the Brutes we saw, were more of the Infantry level Banished, and maybe the higher ones will will have the more spiky, gruesome armor. I mean we still need to see chieftains with the Hammer, Atriox's Chosen, and others, as well I I am certain Shipmaster has Elite Honour Guards, would be awesome to see those return.
You think 343 could manager to put all those things and design in one game? I don't know, you're giving them way more credi than I do. I don't trust them enough to think they would be capable of that.
Then what is the point of your criticisms? If you really don't want something to fail, because you care about it, then giving some trust to the developer is the only way, otherwise, any criticism is just pointless rants. Do you want Halo to fail? If not, then 343 has to be given some faith, otherwise their is no point in giving them criticism.
I don't care about Halo, nor about 343 anymore. I think 343 need to move on to something different than Halo, because they've prove to me they're not fit for the job. I'm just entrusting my opinion (supported by a bit of design knowledge) to the Halo community, not to 343. I still care about this community. This is nothing but a criticism on just one more bad decision 343 made, without any hope for it to change anything in the game, but in the community's heart.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
Enrico 117 wrote:
Dang you take this very seriously, I respect it. Personally though, i just think it looks good so I like it lol To be fair to Infinite though, there might be good reasoning there is a mix of different styles, we'll have to wait and see. If it does turn out that there is a good lore explanation for it, would you play it?
There are many more things I didn't like in the trailer. Along with the designs they would have to change the art style almost completely, improve graphic fidelity, use a good antagonist, improve the AI, bring some fresh gameplay meccanics, innovate instead of remixing the same old stuff, add at least one thing that can only be done in Halo Infinite and no other game can do.
That's unfortunate, we seem to be on very different pages. I agree about the graphics but pretty much everything else I'm very happy with, save for a couple of the gun sounds.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
Then what would be the solution? The couldn't stick to ''their'' art style, as that is one of the main issues people had with their games, and going with another ''New'' art style would just cause the same issues to appear that their art style already caused. Going back to the more recognizable and beloved art style was a much more safer choice than keeping the art style, or creating another unrecognizable art style.
The art style has never been completely consistent between Halos, it has always changed a bit, with Halo 4 and 5 it changed a bit more than usual. With Halo Infinite it changed again to an art style never used before exactly like that. The biggest departure is in the designs though, Bungie's Halos had somewhat consistent designs and then the 343's Halos had other designs, more or less consistent too. With that in mind, it's not true that a different art style would create issues (since Halo Infinite already has a new art style), new designs would. But only to a certain extent, you can adapt old designs to a new art style. The solution for me would be to use an art style that shares Halo 4 panoramic views, Halo 5 moody photography and environment variety, Halo CE color palette and contrast, with similar levels of subtle wear, rust and gore but updated to 2020 level of realism using modern techniques, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 designs, much higher graphic fidelity. Not the very distinct flat art style they showed in Halo Infinite trailer.
C0RRuPTT wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
surfer45 wrote:
Well if we actually look at HW2 the only things that were given the banished look were the brutes an
their vehicles/weapons and structures (which infinite could do better on structures) The elites and grunts still sported their original look just with shades of red and grey, and some art even depicted them as blue. Elites in the banished were just hired mercenaries with the shipmaster dude as their leader. So technically did they really have to follow the looks? I like the colors its easy to tell the ranks again and know when you are about to get dead.
Yeah, not to mention, most of the color scheme in that game, was due to keep things consistent, and to keep from confusing the player as to which units they can control. You can't just take a design in an RTS and bring it into the game, that was the only mistake (so far) I can see 343 doing by bringing in the Banished Phantom. You kind of have to( to a degree) redesign some things to get them to fit better in an fps setting. So the armor from that game was never going to be a point by point recreation.
There could be multiple versions of each design. IE, we saw a Banished phantom but we could also see a Covenant Phantom, Harbinger cruiser, etc. There is more than likely much more to this game than what was shown.
I would be happy if that was the case.
Me too, Halo 5 had the Spirit Cruiser as well as the Phantom so I don’t see why not.
I have trust issues with 343 after they butcherd Halo 4 MP, Halo MCC, Halo 5 Campaign (they already lied to me once with their marketing), and the Halo Channel app.
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I can guarantee that you will play Halo Infinite .
You just straight up lied to everyone . Absolute bullyoink
Are you willing to bet money on that? If not, then shut up and -Yoink-.

EDIT: shut up and refrain from commenting any longer.
Enrico 117 wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
surfer45 wrote:
Well if we actually look at HW2 the only things that were given the banished look were the brutes an
their vehicles/weapons and structures (which infinite could do better on structures) The elites and grunts still sported their original look just with shades of red and grey, and some art even depicted them as blue. Elites in the banished were just hired mercenaries with the shipmaster dude as their leader. So technically did they really have to follow the looks? I like the colors its easy to tell the ranks again and know when you are about to get dead.
Yeah, not to mention, most of the color scheme in that game, was due to keep things consistent, and to keep from confusing the player as to which units they can control. You can't just take a design in an RTS and bring it into the game, that was the only mistake (so far) I can see 343 doing by bringing in the Banished Phantom. You kind of have to( to a degree) redesign some things to get them to fit better in an fps setting. So the armor from that game was never going to be a point by point recreation.
There could be multiple versions of each design. IE, we saw a Banished phantom but we could also see a Covenant Phantom, Harbinger cruiser, etc. There is more than likely much more to this game than what was shown.
I would be happy if that was the case.
Me too, Halo 5 had the Spirit Cruiser as well as the Phantom so I don’t see why not.
I have trust issues with 343 after they butcherd Halo 4 MP, Halo MCC, Halo 5 Campaign (they already lied to me once with their marketing), and the Halo Channel app.
I agree with you somewhat. In, general I do not like the 343 titles as much as the Bungie titles, but I think it’s mostly because of their refusal to embrace what made the original Halo Titles so good.
Spam8358 wrote:
It does feel off, hopefully it will be explained.
But remember, they are not banished, they are basically hired by the banished and might have another way of thinking.
If they're just hired mercenaries then it just sounds like a cheap excuse to skip their job and just not design the Banished enemies at all.
C0RRuPTT wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
surfer45 wrote:
Well if we actually look at HW2 the only things that were given the banished look were the brutes an
their vehicles/weapons and structures (which infinite could do better on structures) The elites and grunts still sported their original look just with shades of red and grey, and some art even depicted them as blue. Elites in the banished were just hired mercenaries with the shipmaster dude as their leader. So technically did they really have to follow the looks? I like the colors its easy to tell the ranks again and know when you are about to get dead.
Yeah, not to mention, most of the color scheme in that game, was due to keep things consistent, and to keep from confusing the player as to which units they can control. You can't just take a design in an RTS and bring it into the game, that was the only mistake (so far) I can see 343 doing by bringing in the Banished Phantom. You kind of have to( to a degree) redesign some things to get them to fit better in an fps setting. So the armor from that game was never going to be a point by point recreation.
There could be multiple versions of each design. IE, we saw a Banished phantom but we could also see a Covenant Phantom, Harbinger cruiser, etc. There is more than likely much more to this game than what was shown.
I would be happy if that was the case.
Me too, Halo 5 had the Spirit Cruiser as well as the Phantom so I don’t see why not.
I have trust issues with 343 after they butcherd Halo 4 MP, Halo MCC, Halo 5 Campaign (they already lied to me once with their marketing), and the Halo Channel app.
I agree with you somewhat. In, general I do not like the 343 titles as much as the Bungie titles, but I think it’s mostly because of their refusal to embrace what made the original Halo Titles so good.
And all the broken stuff, and the lies too.
I am positive about Halo: Infinite, but I do have a healthy skepticism. Let’s have some patience and see what Infinite has to offer in the coming months.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Ezio Wolf wrote:
WSerg wrote:
It's difficult to pass judgement on a game without actually playing it first OP. If you're going to openly announce that you won't be playing 343's game, what incentive does 343 have to listen to your suggestions about how to improve their game?
this goes both ways... why would the developer listen to feedback of people who already announced they will buy the product regardless or even have already preorderd
It actually does not go both ways if you want people to continue to play your games. 343i has a 10 year plan for this game, so keeping their loyal players involved in the game along with new players is a priority. If they didn't listen to their loyal players then they risk losing the players that actually care and would stick around more likely than new players. Losing a loyal person hurts them more than someone not ever playing their game.
Loyal players have been around for 20 years almost, more and more of them are leaving. How long will they keep playing this game that looks and feels like a mix of the same old Halos they've been playing for so long? Surely is not the campaign that will make this game survive for 10 years. If this game really want to survive 10 years, then it needs to bring in new fans every day, like Fortnite, Rainbow Six, Apex, Destiny and other games as a service do. All those games brought in some innovation at least, what's innovative in the new Halo Infinite trailer they showed? I see Halo Infinite and I think: "well, I can see a better Halo design in Halo MCC, I can see a more cartoony design in Fortnite, I can see a more realistic art style in hundreds of other games, what's this design sopposed to appeal to? If I want to play a strategic shooter with pick-ups and map control I can play Halo 3, if I want to play a more frenetic shooter I can play Halo 5, if I want to use a grapling gun Apex, Ovewatch and Doom do it way better, who's this weird in between for? Where sprint and slides look quite useles and the grapling hook is a pick-up."
i know they have been slowly leaving because im one of them, and you know why I left because they didn't listen to the people that were already there. If they listened to the loyal players to begin with then we wouldn't be here in the situation.

As for you long list of opinionated criticism, you will just have to play them game and see if they can convince you to enjoy the game or not. If you don't like it then there is always MCC, simple.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I don’t give a -Yoink- about the lore, the game looks like it’s supposed to, and it looks fantastic and not whatever the -Yoink- the last two games were supposed to be, so I plan on buying it unless some other horrible news comes out regarding multiplayer or micro transactions
If you don't care about the lore, why do you care about the campaign at all? You should just play the multiplayer and enjoy older Halo campaigns, not hold back the new Halo for some nostalgic reasons. Imo Halo Infinite souldn't keep looking and feeling exactly like it's a game from 2006, there's already Halo MCC for that.
If you want a newer feel there's halo 4 and 5 for that. You're argument goes both ways sir.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I can guarantee that you will play Halo Infinite .
You just straight up lied to everyone . Absolute bullyoink
Are you willing to bet money on that? If not, then shut up and -Yoink-.

EDIT: shut up and refrain from commenting any longer.
5000

Yen
UgandaSan wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I don’t give a -Yoink- about the lore, the game looks like it’s supposed to, and it looks fantastic and not whatever the -Yoink- the last two games were supposed to be, so I plan on buying it unless some other horrible news comes out regarding multiplayer or micro transactions
If you don't care about the lore, why do you care about the campaign at all? You should just play the multiplayer and enjoy older Halo campaigns, not hold back the new Halo for some nostalgic reasons. Imo Halo Infinite souldn't keep looking and feeling exactly like it's a game from 2006, there's already Halo MCC for that.
If you want a newer feel there's halo 4 and 5 for that. You're argument goes both ways sir.
Halo 4 and 5 are both quite old too.
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Ezio Wolf wrote:
WSerg wrote:
It's difficult to pass judgement on a game without actually playing it first OP. If you're going to openly announce that you won't be playing 343's game, what incentive does 343 have to listen to your suggestions about how to improve their game?
this goes both ways... why would the developer listen to feedback of people who already announced they will buy the product regardless or even have already preorderd
It actually does not go both ways if you want people to continue to play your games. 343i has a 10 year plan for this game, so keeping their loyal players involved in the game along with new players is a priority. If they didn't listen to their loyal players then they risk losing the players that actually care and would stick around more likely than new players. Losing a loyal person hurts them more than someone not ever playing their game.
Loyal players have been around for 20 years almost, more and more of them are leaving. How long will they keep playing this game that looks and feels like a mix of the same old Halos they've been playing for so long? Surely is not the campaign that will make this game survive for 10 years. If this game really want to survive 10 years, then it needs to bring in new fans every day, like Fortnite, Rainbow Six, Apex, Destiny and other games as a service do. All those games brought in some innovation at least, what's innovative in the new Halo Infinite trailer they showed? I see Halo Infinite and I think: "well, I can see a better Halo design in Halo MCC, I can see a more cartoony design in Fortnite, I can see a more realistic art style in hundreds of other games, what's this design sopposed to appeal to? If I want to play a strategic shooter with pick-ups and map control I can play Halo 3, if I want to play a more frenetic shooter I can play Halo 5, if I want to use a grapling gun Apex, Ovewatch and Doom do it way better, who's this weird in between for? Where sprint and slides look quite useles and the grapling hook is a pick-up."
i know they have been slowly leaving because im one of them, and you know why I left because they didn't listen to the people that were already there. If they listened to the loyal players to begin with then we wouldn't be here in the situation.

As for you long list of opinionated criticism, you will just have to play them game and see if they can convince you to enjoy the game or not. If you don't like it then there is always MCC, simple.
Did you stop playing the MCC too? Because that wouldn't make much sense to me. If you claim to be a loyal fan and didn't like Halo 4 and 5, then you'd leave H4 & H5, but you'd still keep playing Halo MCC. If you left the MCC too, for whatever reason, after these many years is understandable, but then it looks like Halo Infinite doesn't bring almost anything new to that. Why wouldn't you leave Halo Infinite the same way and for the same reasons you left the MCC? Why would you ask 343 to go back to the classic Halos, if you already have a reson to not play them anymore? All of that, supposing you left Halo MCC as well.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I can guarantee that you will play Halo Infinite .
You just straight up lied to everyone . Absolute bullyoink
Are you willing to bet money on that? If not, then shut up and -Yoink-.

EDIT: shut up and refrain from commenting any longer.
5000

Yen
PM me.
Enrico 117 wrote:
UgandaSan wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
I preface this by saying, even though I already made up my mind and won't buy, nor play Halo Infinite, I still have cared about Halo for the longest time. One of the many different reasons I won't play HI is the character design. I am not the biggest expert in design, but I like to think I know a thing or two, and one of the things I know quite well is storytelling is a fundamental aspect of good design. In particular, the old Covenant design was simple, purple and shiny because the religious cult of the Covenant values uniformity, rules, rigor, elegance, luxury and power (and things like that). The Banished are a high-tech, brutal, tactical coalition that uses rough edges, scrap metal and red color (if I'm not mistaken). The old design is out of place and confusing in this context. The old design tells the wrong story. This is bad design, it's fundamentally flawed. As much as you don't care about the lore, it's wrong and disrespectful to completely ignore it and tell a different story with your design. I'd like to hear from another concept artist or a character designer their take on this topic.
I don’t give a -Yoink- about the lore, the game looks like it’s supposed to, and it looks fantastic and not whatever the -Yoink- the last two games were supposed to be, so I plan on buying it unless some other horrible news comes out regarding multiplayer or micro transactions
If you don't care about the lore, why do you care about the campaign at all? You should just play the multiplayer and enjoy older Halo campaigns, not hold back the new Halo for some nostalgic reasons. Imo Halo Infinite souldn't keep looking and feeling exactly like it's a game from 2006, there's already Halo MCC for that.
If you want a newer feel there's halo 4 and 5 for that. You're argument goes both ways sir.
Halo 4 and 5 are both quite old too.
Kind of. But still relatively active in halo 5s case. But the MCC is not only broken and unfinished but 343i also used the gearbox ports of the original games so not only does it look graphically inferior to the original but it controls worse and it has multiplayer issues like hit registration that killed off almost the entire multiplayer side of halo CE and halo 2
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 4
  4. 5
  5. 6
  6. 7
  7. ...
  8. 8