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Why it is wrong to use old designs

OP Enrico 117

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Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
Then what would be the solution? The couldn't stick to ''their'' art style, as that is one of the main issues people had with their games, and going with another ''New'' art style would just cause the same issues to appear that their art style already caused. Going back to the more recognizable and beloved art style was a much more safer choice than keeping the art style, or creating another unrecognizable art style.
The art style has never been completely consistent between Halos, it has always changed a bit, with Halo 4 and 5 it changed a bit more than usual. With Halo Infinite it changed again to an art style never used before exactly like that. The biggest departure is in the designs though, Bungie's Halos had somewhat consistent designs and then the 343's Halos had other designs, more or less consistent too. With that in mind, it's not true that a different art style would create issues (since Halo Infinite already has a new art style), new designs would. But only to a certain extent, you can adapt old designs to a new art style. The solution for me would be to use an art style that shares Halo 4 panoramic views, Halo 5 moody photography and environment variety, Halo CE color palette and contrast, with similar levels of subtle wear, rust and gore but updated to 2020 level of realism using modern techniques, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 designs, much higher graphic fidelity. Not the very distinct flat art style they showed in Halo Infinite trailer.
The art style never changed as drastically as it had in 4 and 5, 1 - Reach, the art style was still recognizable as a Halo Game, 4 and 5, were barely recognizable, you really had to squint to see the similarities. And the reason 343 has always had inconsistent designs is that they were so insistent on pushing an art style, little cared for. We did not want them to ''improve'' 'their'' art style, we wanted them to bring back the more consistent feel of "Bungies" art style, and now that they have found a fair medium, I at least feel satisfied as, it is now recognizable again and it fixed the lore issues I had with the Grunts Jackels and Elites. Halo Infinite art style is not "New'' though, while its not a 1 to 1 recreation of Bungies art style, it still takes a lot of inspiration and design cues from it, so it's still familiar, another art style that was different from Bungies and 343's would again just alienate the community just like 4 and 5's art style did. So the only safe bet was to draw from the more successful art style rather than trying to keep the one people already did not like, or switch to a new one that even further makes Halo unrecognizable as a Halo product. The problem with that though is that would be keeping 343's art style as the center front of it all. The issue was 343's rendition of the Art style, making some hosh posh mix and match while using 343's designs as a base would not have been any better. The compromise they did with Infinite, atleast allows the main enemies to be recognizable, while still having some ''variants'' of 343 design sprinkled in. I means that for the most part I can happily kill Grunts, Elites and Jackels, that look like themselves and ignore the ones that don't. The art style was not "Flat'' it just was not as textured as it should have been. It still had the details, it just the lighting and draw distance that was the issue, they were clearly unfinished. Fixing that and adding some more texture details, will take away that "Flat'' look you are complaining about.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
Then what would be the solution? The couldn't stick to ''their'' art style, as that is one of the main issues people had with their games, and going with another ''New'' art style would just cause the same issues to appear that their art style already caused. Going back to the more recognizable and beloved art style was a much more safer choice than keeping the art style, or creating another unrecognizable art style.
The art style has never been completely consistent between Halos, it has always changed a bit, with Halo 4 and 5 it changed a bit more than usual. With Halo Infinite it changed again to an art style never used before exactly like that. The biggest departure is in the designs though, Bungie's Halos had somewhat consistent designs and then the 343's Halos had other designs, more or less consistent too. With that in mind, it's not true that a different art style would create issues (since Halo Infinite already has a new art style), new designs would. But only to a certain extent, you can adapt old designs to a new art style. The solution for me would be to use an art style that shares Halo 4 panoramic views, Halo 5 moody photography and environment variety, Halo CE color palette and contrast, with similar levels of subtle wear, rust and gore but updated to 2020 level of realism using modern techniques, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 designs, much higher graphic fidelity. Not the very distinct flat art style they showed in Halo Infinite trailer.
The art style never changed as drastically as it had in 4 and 5, 1 - Reach, the art style was still recognizable as a Halo Game, 4 and 5, were barely recognizable, you really had to squint to see the similarities. And the reason 343 has always had inconsistent designs is that they were so insistent on pushing an art style, little cared for. We did not want them to ''improve'' 'their'' art style, we wanted them to bring back the more consistent feel of "Bungies" art style, and now that they have found a fair medium, I at least feel satisfied as, it is now recognizable again and it fixed the lore issues I had with the Grunts Jackels and Elites. Halo Infinite art style is not "New'' though, while its not a 1 to 1 recreation of Bungies art style, it still takes a lot of inspiration and design cues from it, so it's still familiar, another art style that was different from Bungies and 343's would again just alienate the community just like 4 and 5's art style did. So the only safe bet was to draw from the more successful art style rather than trying to keep the one people already did not like, or switch to a new one that even further makes Halo unrecognizable as a Halo product. The problem with that though is that would be keeping 343's art style as the center front of it all. The issue was 343's rendition of the Art style, making some hosh posh mix and match while using 343's designs as a base would not have been any better. The compromise they did with Infinite, atleast allows the main enemies to be recognizable, while still having some ''variants'' of 343 design sprinkled in. I means that for the most part I can happily kill Grunts, Elites and Jackels, that look like themselves and ignore the ones that don't. The art style was not "Flat'' it just was not as textured as it should have been. It still had the details, it just the lighting and draw distance that was the issue, they were clearly unfinished. Fixing that and adding some more texture details, will take away that "Flat'' look you are complaining about.
I like the art style of Infinite too, it honors the great style Bungie used while still feeling new, simple(in a good way), and intricate at the same time.
I feel like comparatively to the lore they are expanding out into new territory well. The story has to go somewhere. The only complaint I have Is that theey may be leaving some of the original important designs behind like the warthog. I don’t know about you but I do not like the new warthog design or sounds. The best one created was probably halo reach or halo three. I would love to see those designs back. Another one that’s really important is the pelican. It’s an iconic stable and I believe that they got that correct in Infinate from what I’ve seen. Halo 4 and 5 had me crying with how distorted they were. Don’t get me wrong though, 343 has done an awesome job continuing to develop sandbox weapons and vehicles as far as adding new things in. Stuff like the hydra, rail gun, Saw, and hornet have actually done well at filling much needed expansion of weaponry. The only thing I don’t agree with is continuing to change the staple weapons such as pistol and shotgun and not bringing back the original into its place, OR REMOVING A WEAPON OR VEHICLE COMPLETELY FOR SOMETHING NEW. You can add a new weapons like a drum fed magazine shotgun and still have a pump shotgun like the original. You can have a smaller round pistol that’s quicker firing and also have a heavier original pistol. They need to be careful at a balance between this art style and what they add to what we already know and love. That is especially true for characters and environment.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
The art style never changed as drastically as it had in 4 and 5, 1 - Reach, the art style was still recognizable as a Halo Game, 4 and 5, were barely recognizable, you really had to squint to see the similarities. And the reason 343 has always had inconsistent designs is that they were so insistent on pushing an art style, little cared for. We did not want them to ''improve'' 'their'' art style, we wanted them to bring back the more consistent feel of "Bungies" art style, and now that they have found a fair medium, I at least feel satisfied as, it is now recognizable again and it fixed the lore issues I had with the Grunts Jackels and Elites. Halo Infinite art style is not "New'' though, while its not a 1 to 1 recreation of Bungies art style, it still takes a lot of inspiration and design cues from it, so it's still familiar, another art style that was different from Bungies and 343's would again just alienate the community just like 4 and 5's art style did. So the only safe bet was to draw from the more successful art style rather than trying to keep the one people already did not like, or switch to a new one that even further makes Halo unrecognizable as a Halo product. The problem with that though is that would be keeping 343's art style as the center front of it all. The issue was 343's rendition of the Art style, making some hosh posh mix and match while using 343's designs as a base would not have been any better. The compromise they did with Infinite, atleast allows the main enemies to be recognizable, while still having some ''variants'' of 343 design sprinkled in. I means that for the most part I can happily kill Grunts, Elites and Jackels, that look like themselves and ignore the ones that don't. The art style was not "Flat'' it just was not as textured as it should have been. It still had the details, it just the lighting and draw distance that was the issue, they were clearly unfinished. Fixing that and adding some more texture details, will take away that "Flat'' look you are complaining about.
I couldn't agree less with your opinion and there's only so many ways I can describe mine. There's plenty of fans (if they're not gone meanwhile) who, just like you, asked for an old art style since Halo 4, but I know there's also plenty of fans who, just a few days ago, like me, complained because they didn't like the art style in Halo Infinite. I have an idea of how many people advocate for one side and how many for the other, but we could never be sure. I can't change your mind but I'm confidente I argumented my point in the more objective and logical way (for as much as objective art can possibly be). I'll be contented with that.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
The art style never changed as drastically as it had in 4 and 5, 1 - Reach, the art style was still recognizable as a Halo Game, 4 and 5, were barely recognizable, you really had to squint to see the similarities. And the reason 343 has always had inconsistent designs is that they were so insistent on pushing an art style, little cared for. We did not want them to ''improve'' 'their'' art style, we wanted them to bring back the more consistent feel of "Bungies" art style, and now that they have found a fair medium, I at least feel satisfied as, it is now recognizable again and it fixed the lore issues I had with the Grunts Jackels and Elites. Halo Infinite art style is not "New'' though, while its not a 1 to 1 recreation of Bungies art style, it still takes a lot of inspiration and design cues from it, so it's still familiar, another art style that was different from Bungies and 343's would again just alienate the community just like 4 and 5's art style did. So the only safe bet was to draw from the more successful art style rather than trying to keep the one people already did not like, or switch to a new one that even further makes Halo unrecognizable as a Halo product. The problem with that though is that would be keeping 343's art style as the center front of it all. The issue was 343's rendition of the Art style, making some hosh posh mix and match while using 343's designs as a base would not have been any better. The compromise they did with Infinite, atleast allows the main enemies to be recognizable, while still having some ''variants'' of 343 design sprinkled in. I means that for the most part I can happily kill Grunts, Elites and Jackels, that look like themselves and ignore the ones that don't. The art style was not "Flat'' it just was not as textured as it should have been. It still had the details, it just the lighting and draw distance that was the issue, they were clearly unfinished. Fixing that and adding some more texture details, will take away that "Flat'' look you are complaining about.
I couldn't agree less with your opinion and there's only so many ways I can describe mine. There's plenty of fans (if they're not gone meanwhile) who, just like you, asked for an old art style since Halo 4, but I know there's also plenty of fans who, just a few days ago, like me, complained because they didn't like the art style in Halo Infinite. I have an idea of how many people advocate for one side and how many for the other, but we could never be sure. I can't change your mind but I'm confidente I argumented my point in the more objective and logical way (for as much as objective art can possibly be). I'll be contented with that.
Then we are at an impasse. I understand there is a generation that grew up under 343's art style, and I don't take away fault from 343 for creating this mess, but if 343 really had any confidence in their "Art style'' from the get-go, they would have completely retconned Bungies Art Style and designs out long ago, and CE Anniversary, Halo 2 Anniversary, and maybe even eventually Halo 3 and Reach would have been updated to fit the new Art Style, or at the very least would have been considered non-canon to Halo 4 and 5 ( which sadly they are) and 343 could have moved their Halo forward. They kept the lore, they kept the designs, its only natural that the fans that grew up with those designs are going to want to see them used, rather than forgotten. 343 was trying for so long to keep them in lore while also trying to leave them behind, (which is something you do not do especially with such a beloved and legendary franchise). I once understood that 343 just wanted their own Identity and did not want to be a Shadow of Bungie, but the only thing they have successfully released was remakes of Bungies titles, so at this point, they probably would be better off being a shadow.
I feel like comparatively to the lower they are expanding out into new territory well. The only complaint I have Is that there may be leaving some of the original important designs behind like the warthog. I don’t know about you but I do not like the new warthog and had the best one created was probably halo reach or halo three. I would love to see those designs back and he will. Another one that’s really important is the pelican. It’s an iconic stable and I believe that they got that correct from what I’ve seen. is the day maybe leaving some of the original important designs behind like a wart hog. I don’t know about you but I do not like the new warthog and the best one create it was probably halo reach or halo three. I would love to see those designs back in a row. Another one that’s really important is the pelican. It’s an iconic stable and I believe that they got that correct from what I’ve seen. Don’t get me wrong though, 343 has done an awesome job continuing to develop sandbox weapons as far as adding new things in. Stuff like the hydra, rail gun, Saw and other new weapons have actually done well at filling much needed expansion of weaponry. The only thing I don’t agree with is continuing to change the staple weapons such as pistol and shotgun and not bringing back the original into its place. You can add a new weapons like a drum fed magazine shotgun and still have a pump shotgun like the original. You can have a smaller round pistol that’s quicker firing and also have a heavier original pistol. They need to be a balance between this art style and what the add to what is already what we know and love. The only thing I don’t agree with is continuing to change the staple weapons such as pistol and shotgun and not bringing back the original into its place. You can add a new weapons like a drum fed magazine shotgun and still have a pump shotgun like the original. You can have a smaller round pistol that’s quicker firing and also have a heavier original pistol. There needs to be a balance between this art style and what the add to what is already what we know and love. That is especially true for characters and environment.
Yeah, some designs are better than others, I kinda like the new warthog design, but I wouldn't mind the Halo 3 or other Halo's designs to come back. Because they both convey the same idea: it's an XXVI century's off-road car made for space military forces. Esthetically I also prefer the design of the older Pelican much more than the new design, but it's just a subjective opinion, I couldn't add much more than many other comments already said, that is: every single person on Earth wants the old design, because I like it, and because it already had a good design before, so there can never be anything that could improve it or could be better than it is.
Include as many "designs" as possible. Interweave them as best as possible. Why should we replace this and that look of certain species when there possibilities as to why and give reason to how and so on. So be it an " excuse " that 343 brough in new looks for say, Sangheili and Unggoy in Halo 4/ 5 but sure, yeah gives us why in lore format as how the looks changed. And 343 should not hamper the looks of the Banished. If any hting, theres awesome reworks out there of their concept brute arts or whatever.
The Jiralhanae, at least the red ones. Need more ,spikes, blades, bulkiness to them armor. Say Im ok with low ranking brutes not having facial hair whatever, IF its explained in kinda reason that they get permission to do so once they have proven their merit in battle etc. Surely some Jiralhanae brute clans/ sub species wouldnt give a flying duck ( namely the brute tyoe, Tartarus was of ) about shaving themself.
I don't mind if they update the old weapon designs... But at the very least the old weapons themselves should still be in the game. To rip them out hurts Halo's identity.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
Then what would be the solution? The couldn't stick to ''their'' art style, as that is one of the main issues people had with their games, and going with another ''New'' art style would just cause the same issues to appear that their art style already caused. Going back to the more recognizable and beloved art style was a much more safer choice than keeping the art style, or creating another unrecognizable art style.
The art style has never been completely consistent between Halos, it has always changed a bit, with Halo 4 and 5 it changed a bit more than usual. With Halo Infinite it changed again to an art style never used before exactly like that. The biggest departure is in the designs though, Bungie's Halos had somewhat consistent designs and then the 343's Halos had other designs, more or less consistent too. With that in mind, it's not true that a different art style would create issues (since Halo Infinite already has a new art style), new designs would. But only to a certain extent, you can adapt old designs to a new art style. The solution for me would be to use an art style that shares Halo 4 panoramic views, Halo 5 moody photography and environment variety, Halo CE color palette and contrast, with similar levels of subtle wear, rust and gore but updated to 2020 level of realism using modern techniques, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 designs, much higher graphic fidelity. Not the very distinct flat art style they showed in Halo Infinite trailer.
That's a valid claim. I wouldn't say the Bungie art-style was inconsistent, but they definitely made changes to their designs along the way. If you look at the Jackals from Halo 1 to Halo 2 and 3 they changed quite a bit in their physicality and somehow, people seem to have overlooked on that. Reach as well has a very different approach on how things look and it is justified by the tone of the game.
And the reason I think people seem to not like 343 art-style besides the nostalgia (which undeniably plays a major role on this) is because their changes were maybe too drastic. If they made a more gradual change over the years I think people would not complain too much about it and all the changes would come across as a natural and subtle update and modernization of the art-style just like Bungie did over the years as well.
Include as many "designs" as possible. Interweave them as best as possible. Why should we replace this and that look of certain species when there possibilities as to why and give reason to how and so on. So be it an " excuse " that 343 brough in new looks for say, Sangheili and Unggoy in Halo 4/ 5 but sure, yeah gives us why in lore format as how the looks changed. And 343 should not hamper the looks of the Banished. If any hting, theres awesome reworks out there of their concept brute arts or whatever.
The Jiralhanae, at least the red ones. Need more ,spikes, blades, bulkiness to them armor. Say Im ok with low ranking brutes not having facial hair whatever, IF its explained in kinda reason that they get permission to do so once they have proven their merit in battle etc. Surely some Jiralhanae brute clans/ sub species wouldnt give a flying duck ( namely the brute tyoe, Tartarus was of ) about shaving themself.
I would kinda be ok with that too, put in more than one design, even though the ones they showed in the trailer are God awful toys from a Mega Blocks set, just as detailed as Minecraft's Steve imo, at least put in some good designs too. But it's 343 we're talking about, once more, I don't trust one bit they will do it.
I don't mind if they update the old weapon designs... But at the very least the old weapons themselves should still be in the game. To rip them out hurts Halo's identity.
Even worse than what they did with the rocket launcher in Halo 5. That rocket launcher was an unnecessary change, but at least looks a bit like it could fit in a Halo game, The new pistol and the new shotgun look straight up from CoD.
Enrico 117 wrote:
I don't mind if they update the old weapon designs... But at the very least the old weapons themselves should still be in the game. To rip them out hurts Halo's identity.
Even worse than what they did with the rocket launcher in Halo 5. That rocket launcher was an unnecessary change, but at least looks a bit like it could fit in a Halo game, The new pistol and the new shotgun look straight up from CoD.
Exactly my point here. They figured out how to carry over the Halo 2 BR, Reach Grenade Launcher, SPNKR Rocket system, and the Halo 1 Pistol so it’s possible to have those designs and carry them into the game along side new changes.

If we really want to get Technical each one of these weapons has a different Nomenclature to explain the changes made. From H2 BR55 to H3 BR55 HB to the BR85 variants found in H4 and H5. There’s a way to honor both art styles by realizing that a war spanning all of the Galaxy you’d find all of them. They’re still digging up Russian ordinance in Taliban controlled countries because there was a previous war. This new era of Halo (4,5,6) should be no different.

Add them all! MA5, M6, BR, M3, M7, SRS, SPNKR, and M90. That’s how you solve this. Imagine being able to find the halo reach magnum and then coming across the halo three ODST magnum and deciding; “I’d rather have that one.”
Enrico 117 wrote:
I don't mind if they update the old weapon designs... But at the very least the old weapons themselves should still be in the game. To rip them out hurts Halo's identity.
Even worse than what they did with the rocket launcher in Halo 5. That rocket launcher was an unnecessary change, but at least looks a bit like it could fit in a Halo game, The new pistol and the new shotgun look straight up from CoD.
Exactly my point here. They figured out how to carry over the Halo 2 BR, Reach Grenade Launcher, SPNKR Rocket system, and the Halo 1 Pistol so it’s possible to have those designs and carry them into the game along side new changes.

If we really want to get Technical each one of these weapons has a different Nomenclature to explain the changes made. From H2 BR55 to H3 BR55 HB to the BR85 variants found in H4 and H5. There’s a way to honor both art styles by realizing that a war spanning all of the Galaxy you’d find all of them. They’re still digging up Russian ordinance in Taliban controlled countries because there was a previous war. This new era of Halo (4,5,6) should be no different.

Add them all! MA5, M6, BR, M3, M7, SRS, SPNKR, and M90. That’s how you solve this. Imagine being able to find the halo reach magnum and then coming across the halo three ODST magnum and deciding; “I’d rather have that one.”
So in agreement here. As long as it makes lore/ canon sense to have them in say Campaign. Include as many variations as possible that have appeared in the franchise.
For Forge and MP ( especially competive ) the skies the limit. For MP at least the trade of there is blaancing and steadlily and slowly add a few at a time so said balance can keep up.

I would looove to have the many variants of the Needler, erm Type 33 in Infinity. Even though that weapon dosent have naming designations as with many other weapons. They could hve lorified an explanation as to why some have bigger/ longer/ sleeker overall shape, colors of needles, amount, capacity, signature lock on strenght, velocity, piercing abilities, detonation strenght and so on.

Bungie and 343 both have/ had their dire weaknesses. But now its 343 that holds the mantle and they do listen, though its easly for them to loose track of constructive critsm and ideas from our fans.

Also. 343 made a great job in varying all kinds of weapons with variations / sidegrades. Liek the Blood of Suban, the ONE gun that closely resembeld a halo gun I dreamt about so many years ago before Halo 2 came out. Would love to say modify a possible included Carbine/ Pulse Carbine into BoS during Campaign.
Also I want my DMR, Reached M45 shotgun, Neddle Rifle and First Person Flamethrower. The last one would be lovely against possible flood, oh and roleplaying as a Hellbringer, oh yeah!
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
Then what would be the solution? The couldn't stick to ''their'' art style, as that is one of the main issues people had with their games, and going with another ''New'' art style would just cause the same issues to appear that their art style already caused. Going back to the more recognizable and beloved art style was a much more safer choice than keeping the art style, or creating another unrecognizable art style.
The art style has never been completely consistent between Halos, it has always changed a bit, with Halo 4 and 5 it changed a bit more than usual. With Halo Infinite it changed again to an art style never used before exactly like that. The biggest departure is in the designs though, Bungie's Halos had somewhat consistent designs and then the 343's Halos had other designs, more or less consistent too. With that in mind, it's not true that a different art style would create issues (since Halo Infinite already has a new art style), new designs would. But only to a certain extent, you can adapt old designs to a new art style. The solution for me would be to use an art style that shares Halo 4 panoramic views, Halo 5 moody photography and environment variety, Halo CE color palette and contrast, with similar levels of subtle wear, rust and gore but updated to 2020 level of realism using modern techniques, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 designs, much higher graphic fidelity. Not the very distinct flat art style they showed in Halo Infinite trailer.
That's a valid claim. I wouldn't say the Bungie art-style was inconsistent, but they definitely made changes to their designs along the way. If you look at the Jackals from Halo 1 to Halo 2 and 3 they changed quite a bit in their physicality and somehow, people seem to have overlooked on that. Reach as well has a very different approach on how things look and it is justified by the tone of the game.
And the reason I think people seem to not like 343 art-style besides the nostalgia (which undeniably plays a major role on this) is because their changes were maybe too drastic. If they made a more gradual change over the years I think people would not complain too much about it and all the changes would come across as a natural and subtle update and modernization of the art-style just like Bungie did over the years as well.
Those were details though, they were still recognizable, and they were still consistent with the design philosophy of the Jackels. The Jackels from 1-Reach all had Bird like features, that had remained consistent through all iterations of Jackels until Halo 4 and 5. At no point through 1 to Reach did the Jackels start looking like reject dinosaurs. And yes it is that very reason, myself and others have issue with 343's art style, it was too drastic of a change, it broke the lore on several species as the Grunts should not be able to breathe, the Jackels are now raptors, and the Elites are Brutes in Elite Armor, and weapon and armor designs we were being told were the same armor and weapons from the classic Halo's now all of a sudden have a completely different design with little to no explanation on why they look that way and the few explanations we do get don't make sense and feel more like lazy cop-out rather than thought out reasons for their change.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
Then what would be the solution? The couldn't stick to ''their'' art style, as that is one of the main issues people had with their games, and going with another ''New'' art style would just cause the same issues to appear that their art style already caused. Going back to the more recognizable and beloved art style was a much more safer choice than keeping the art style, or creating another unrecognizable art style.
The art style has never been completely consistent between Halos, it has always changed a bit, with Halo 4 and 5 it changed a bit more than usual. With Halo Infinite it changed again to an art style never used before exactly like that. The biggest departure is in the designs though, Bungie's Halos had somewhat consistent designs and then the 343's Halos had other designs, more or less consistent too. With that in mind, it's not true that a different art style would create issues (since Halo Infinite already has a new art style), new designs would. But only to a certain extent, you can adapt old designs to a new art style. The solution for me would be to use an art style that shares Halo 4 panoramic views, Halo 5 moody photography and environment variety, Halo CE color palette and contrast, with similar levels of subtle wear, rust and gore but updated to 2020 level of realism using modern techniques, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 designs, much higher graphic fidelity. Not the very distinct flat art style they showed in Halo Infinite trailer.
That's a valid claim. I wouldn't say the Bungie art-style was inconsistent, but they definitely made changes to their designs along the way. If you look at the Jackals from Halo 1 to Halo 2 and 3 they changed quite a bit in their physicality and somehow, people seem to have overlooked on that. Reach as well has a very different approach on how things look and it is justified by the tone of the game.
And the reason I think people seem to not like 343 art-style besides the nostalgia (which undeniably plays a major role on this) is because their changes were maybe too drastic. If they made a more gradual change over the years I think people would not complain too much about it and all the changes would come across as a natural and subtle update and modernization of the art-style just like Bungie did over the years as well.
Those were details though, they were still recognizable, and they were still consistent with the design philosophy of the Jackels. The Jackels from 1-Reach all had Bird like features, that had remained consistent through all iterations of Jackels until Halo 4 and 5. At no point through 1 to Reach did the Jackels start looking like reject dinosaurs. And yes it is that very reason, myself and others have issue with 343's art style, it was too drastic of a change, it broke the lore on several species as the Grunts should not be able to breathe, the Jackels are now raptors, and the Elites are Brutes in Elite Armor, and weapon and armor designs we were being told were the same armor and weapons from the classic Halo's now all of a sudden have a completely different design with little to no explanation on why they look that way and the few explanations we do get don't make sense and feel more like lazy cop-out rather than thought out reasons for their change.
I think you're wrong. Jackals never had feathers except in Halo Reach; they had spikes, or thorns, or maybe whiskers on their elbows and their heads; they were not bird-like at all in the first game. Basically the only thing 343 changed in Jackals' design is the shape of their heads, but that changed from H CE to H2, and from H3 to H Reach also. So if you have to get mad, be consistent about it. Every other species changed a bit but it's just an overdramatization saying they're unrecognizable. If your sister changed hairstyle you'd mistake her with your mom. Trying to innovate is a good thing, and mistakes are always around the corner, but you still need to try. Halo 4 and 5 had different designs and they had flaws like the jackal's design, but Halo Infinite has different designs too, and they're different from Halo CE, 2 and 3 just as much as Halo 5 is different from H2 and H3. Maybe Halo Infinite designs are even further from Halo 2 and 3, than Halo 5 designs are. What 343 did with Halo 4 and 5 is trying to innovate by changing designs and failing. What 343 is doing with Halo Infinite is changing the designs without trying to innovate and failing even more.
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Enrico 117 wrote:
Infinite seems to be a mixture of old and new, truly. Just look at the enemy models. Grunts and elite minor, the red brute looks Halo 3 esque. You can’t win them all bro, this isn’t your game and you have to also keep in mind that creative people must express their creative liberties
That's my battle, creative people at 343 wanted the art style they created in H4 and H5 before they were forced by fans to revert to the old art style.
For very good reasons, as I stated before. I am sorry if you preferred 343's version, but it just was not "Halo''. The art style tried to ''modernize'' Halo's look, and it failed. Everything was too clunky, slow, Spartan's felt like they should not even be able to move in most of the armor variants. The colors made most of the armor ''bleed'' together, making most armors blend in with the undersuit making it hard to really recognize the armors from a glance. It took away that individual look people could make for themselves and instead, just made most armors blend in, to the point, you might as well all be wearing the same armor. Just because it made the 4 and 5 look better (graphically) with fidelity, does not mean, the designs, and style we all grew up with should have been thrown to the wayside.
Dude you keep misunderstanding what I write. I wrote like 4 or 5 times I don't prefer 343's art style over the classic art style. Halo 4 and 5 have flawed designs. But the solution is not to go back indiscrimantely.
Then what would be the solution? The couldn't stick to ''their'' art style, as that is one of the main issues people had with their games, and going with another ''New'' art style would just cause the same issues to appear that their art style already caused. Going back to the more recognizable and beloved art style was a much more safer choice than keeping the art style, or creating another unrecognizable art style.
The art style has never been completely consistent between Halos, it has always changed a bit, with Halo 4 and 5 it changed a bit more than usual. With Halo Infinite it changed again to an art style never used before exactly like that. The biggest departure is in the designs though, Bungie's Halos had somewhat consistent designs and then the 343's Halos had other designs, more or less consistent too. With that in mind, it's not true that a different art style would create issues (since Halo Infinite already has a new art style), new designs would. But only to a certain extent, you can adapt old designs to a new art style. The solution for me would be to use an art style that shares Halo 4 panoramic views, Halo 5 moody photography and environment variety, Halo CE color palette and contrast, with similar levels of subtle wear, rust and gore but updated to 2020 level of realism using modern techniques, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 designs, much higher graphic fidelity. Not the very distinct flat art style they showed in Halo Infinite trailer.
I think you're wrong. Jackals never had feathers except in Halo Reach; they had spikes, or thorns, or maybe whiskers on their elbows and their heads; they were not bird-like at all in the first game. Basically the only thing 343 changed in Jackals' design is the shape of their heads, but that changed from H CE to H2, and from H3 to H Reach also. So if you have to get mad, be consistent about it. Every other species changed a bit but it's just an overdramatization saying they're unrecognizable. If your sister changed hairstyle you'd mistake her with your mom. Trying to innovate is a good thing, and mistakes are always around the corner, but you still need to try. Halo 4 and 5 had different designs and they had flaws like the jackal's design, but Halo Infinite has different designs too, and they're different from Halo CE, 2 and 3 just as much as Halo 5 is different from H2 and H3. Maybe Halo Infinite designs are even further from Halo 2 and 3, than Halo 5 designs are. What 343 did with Halo 4 and 5 is trying to innovate by changing designs and failing. What 343 is doing with Halo Infinite is changing the designs without trying to innovate and failing even more.
Incorrect Jackels have always had aven like features, from the hair on their head to the shape of their legs and how the walked to their mouths resembling beaks ect. They even at times had mannerisms of birds, like constantly turning their heads to the sides or squawking. I will give you the Elites and Hunters ( the Hunters being the only species they did not -Yoink- up) but you can not tell me the Grunts and Jackels are recognizable. If it was not even for the round shields the Jackels hold, you would not recognize it as a Jackel, and I still can't recognize the little air-breathing goblins that the Grunts became. What was there to innovate? They already failed with their designs for 2 games, go back is already a massive improvement from the previous game. Also, there are improvements, the Grunts armor now, makes even more since then it actually did in the original series. In the original, they had what accounted as scuba mask that did not actually attach to anything,(Something I had not noticed before) whereas now they have more of a Darth Vader sort of apparatus that connects the mask to the Tank in the back. and the Brutes Power Armor can actually break off into pieces rather than going ''poof'' and the Brute is naked with electricity surrounding him. So not only did they go back, but they did rectify some issues with the old art style. 343's art style did not "Fail'' because it failed at innovating, it ''failed'' because it changed to much, too quickly and did not give good enough reasons for its sudden change, and the changes they gave, made it feel too much like a generic sci fi shooter rather than the vibrant stylized look of the classic Halo's. Also I find it strange that you agree that 343's art style failed, but then argue that we shouldn't return to the classic art style despite it being the vastly more popular Art style.
Halo 5 looked plastic and with designs not like halo wherever I look. It needed to go. Everithing was a total downgrade and I want to forget it happend.

Now, Halo 4. A bunch of things like changing the grunt/elite anatomy and weapons, vehicles or armors didn't respect or resemble the original look, like turning a lightsaber into an axe or making mario grey by default. Halo 2 anniversary adressed these bunch of things in H4 that didn't work and gave us a natural evolution, halo in a new era and company. Campign was mostly the classic halo 2 we knew, and most of multiplayer was how you evolve halo. Infinite just seems they forgot everything and played painfully average and safe, copypasting everything from bungie... I feel you. It just feels like nostalgia at any cost. Grunt armors and forerunner architecture looked cool, but chief's armor... Well is it going to be the mark vi forever? Or will it go back to CE or what? Why did they ditch something as iconic yet new as the MA5D assault rifle for this ugly toy? And how am I supposed to tell an enemy elite from an ally now? I was hoping to see the enemy elites wear these bulky cheap armors and the ally ones be super agile, covert and high tech, like reach let's say. But no, the exact same thing reheated from the past everywhere. Also at this point they might as well have 3 prophets leading the red covenant.

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Halo 5 looked plastic and with designs not like halo wherever I look. It needed to go. Everithing was a total downgrade and I want to forget it happend.

Now, Halo 4. A bunch of things like changing the grunt/elite anatomy and weapons, vehicles or armors didn't respect or resemble the original look, like turning a lightsaber into an axe or making mario grey by default. Halo 2 anniversary adressed these bunch of things in H4 that didn't work and gave us a natural evolution, halo in a new era and company. Campign was mostly the classic halo 2 we knew, and most of multiplayer was how you evolve halo. Infinite just seems they forgot everything and played painfully average and safe, copypasting everything from bungie... I feel you. It just feels like nostalgia at any cost. Grunt armors and forerunner architecture looked cool, but chief's armor... Well is it going to be the mark vi forever? Or will it go back to CE or what? Why did they ditch something as iconic yet new as the MA5D assault rifle for this ugly toy? And how am I supposed to tell an enemy elite from an ally now? I was hoping to see the enemy elites wear these bulky cheap armors and the ally ones be super agile, covert and high tech, like reach let's say. But no, the exact same thing reheated from the past everywhere. Also at this point they might as well have 3 prophets leading the red covenant.
Exactly, Halo 4 and 5 had their flaws, but Infinite isn't much better, it has its own set of flaws too.
I wish they would use all species styles. H2, H3, and HR brutes should all be considered subspecies and be treated like how HR did Skirmishers and Jackels. Same with the Sangheili, the Bungie Elites and 343 Elites should be subspecies if Sangheili.
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