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Air and scout balance suggestion

OP BigBadChristoph

I think most of the community agrees that T2 air is not an issue, particularly in 1v1s. The problem comes in T3 when a switch to full air can come extremely quickly (25-30 mins into game with logistics 3, and many resources piled). T3 fully upgraded air trades pretty evenly with anti-air vehicles. Which is crazy since air has so much more mobility, and base damage, while anti air is expensive and is ONLY good against air).

My suggestion is: Add a T3 upgrade option to anti air vehicles (could be increased toughness, fire rate, etc). It seems weird that its the ONLY vehicle from garage/foundry that does not have a T3 upgrade. Add a T3 upgrade so it can match the T3 upgraded air.

The second suggestion I have is for scout units. Researching grenade upgrade for core infantry is the counter for an opponent spamming scout units on T1. HOWEVER there are two leaders (arby and shipmaster) that do not have a grenade research ability. They have cloak, which is countered by upgraded scouts anyway. What are these leaders supposed to do about chopper rushes? The only option is to counter with scout spam themselves. However ghosts get absolutely ruined by choppers.

I suggest that ghosts get a buff against other scouts (NOT base damage or to any other units) since these two leaders have no ability to counter scouts with grenades.

Thank you for reading,

peace
I don't know about an ability I just think AA should be boosted especially wolverines.
Shawn96 wrote:
I don't know about an ability I just think AA should be boosted especially wolverines.
A new upgrade won’t be added, but OP is on the right track.

T2 air is dumpster tier during T2 transitions right now, so any sort of blanket buff to AA will only make this issue worse. T2 air really only has a place in super late game on certain maps (usually team games).

A T3 upgrade for AA would not make AA any more oppressive during transitions, while also helping AA when fighting full pop air swarms. It’s a much better idea than blanket buffs to AA that are not needed.
I think you need differenciate reavers and wolverines... Reavers are good T2 and decent T3. Wolverines are mediocre T2 and simply awful T3.

Problem is also anti-air is expensive in yellow so you can get trap is staying in T2 for a long while if your opponent is only doing air. Imo T2 marines with rockets or heavy grunts with EMP (yap yap) is much more effective than anti-air.
while i do feel air is in the best spot its been since launch its is still need a bit more work and wolves are a huge part of that. definitely agree that a blanket heal/damage/splash/whatever wouldn't rly fix anything,that may work for Reavers but wolverines need a complete rework as the problem is deeper then simply not enough "blank", IMO Problem #1: is that wolverines have an ai targeting issue, I've noticed that alot of units when you don't micro will prioritize certain units nightingales and wolverines much harder then other units even more so then their covenant counterparts Reavers/Engineers, even if they don't get targeted by default, Problem #2: with their range where it is leader powers make easy pickings for unsc counter units like wolves and cyclops and they just do not have the survivability Problem #2.5 to get though any thing when thier forced into the middle of the battle and they get targeted hard. In a typical matchup between say Air/AA and someone whos all Air, a single leader power to each side is gonna hurt the air only guy but completely screw the mixed army as wolves will get instagibbed and your gonna lose alot of air anyway as they stack over the wolves and you hit both. Disregarding the fact that air is way more mobile and its easier to dodge abilities(Problem #3) once you lose the army Problem #4 its cost more to rebuild the wolves then it does air. (the specialized counter unit should not cost more overall then the more robust core units thats never made sense to me) and even after all that even if you do miraculously win somehow Problem #3.5: not gonna get much damage to bases with your wolv/air army then if you had just air and if thier smart and siwtch into somehting else youve got nothing as wolves/ cyclops dont do much vs other units , there too many ways your punished for trying to build the more strategic army it incentivizes you to just ignore counter units and just build core, idk if it was me i would give wolverines a slight health/range buff, adjust thier costs or alternatively put some small energy costs on t3 hornets and banshees, there should be a deeper look at ai priority to standardize it, or instead maybe give them wolves a T3 upgrade thats like an anti air only ability to make them more survivable vs air like a flare Y ability to mitigate only the hornet missile or banshee fuel rods or perhaps an active jamming that hides them from air units intermittently either of these i think that would work thematically very well
Shawn96 wrote:
I think you need differenciate reavers and wolverines... Reavers are good T2 and decent T3. Wolverines are mediocre T2 and simply awful T3.

Problem is also anti-air is expensive in yellow so you can get trap is staying in T2 for a long while if your opponent is only doing air. Imo T2 marines with rockets or heavy grunts with EMP (yap yap) is much more effective than anti-air.
Yeah I can easily build all banshees while not using any power for it. This lets me constantly focus on upgrading units and core things while the enemy tries to counter me and loses all their upgrades. I wiped 2 guys in a 3v3 last night because they kept building wolverines and they ended up with an army that couldnt counter anything else while also losing turret upgrades and unit training upgrades. This happens often and we can just stomp and roll over anyone that tries anti-air. If you play Shipmaster or similar leaders getting upgrades gives us a massive power advantage. I can often happily glassing beam their full anti-air army while being able to produce x3 the amount of units they have.