Air is OP - Dedicated Thread

DHG strongdog wrote:

PortalScience27 wrote:

DHG strongdog wrote:

snickerdoodle wrote:

Air is a necessity to continue breathing and thus, living.

I agree air is OP.

I dont care if 99% of the population says air is OP or even a Moderator says it's so and definitely will NEVER listen to someone say "air is OP" when they never played this game in their life. No disrespect of course but AA does a very good for it's job and air does not. People such as Nakamura and THEWALL766 have proven this many times.

Woooosh
Thats the sound of mass air going over your base.

Woosh BANG. Thats the sound of my AA beating your army.

Oh look the joke has flown off the map.

Thedeathofsanic wrote:

PortalScience27 wrote:

DHG strongdog wrote:

PortalScience27 wrote:

DHG strongdog wrote:

snickerdoodle wrote:

Air is a necessity to continue breathing and thus, living.

I agree air is OP.

I dont care if 99% of the population says air is OP or even a Moderator says it's so and definitely will NEVER listen to someone say "air is OP" when they never played this game in their life. No disrespect of course but AA does a very good for it's job and air does not. People such as Nakamura and THEWALL766 have proven this many times.

Woooosh
Thats the sound of mass air going over your base.

Woosh BANG. Thats the sound of my AA beating your army.

Oh look the joke has flown off the map.

Wooooooosh goes the Recon Training Condor
ZAP goes my army.

Recon training only effects infantry and vehicles, not aircraft/condors

Sup3riorArs3nal wrote:

Thedeathofsanic wrote:

PortalScience27 wrote:

DHG strongdog wrote:

PortalScience27 wrote:

DHG strongdog wrote:

snickerdoodle wrote:

Air is a necessity to continue breathing and thus, living.

I agree air is OP.

I dont care if 99% of the population says air is OP or even a Moderator says it's so and definitely will NEVER listen to someone say "air is OP" when they never played this game in their life. No disrespect of course but AA does a very good for it's job and air does not. People such as Nakamura and THEWALL766 have proven this many times.

Woooosh
Thats the sound of mass air going over your base.

Woosh BANG. Thats the sound of my AA beating your army.

Oh look the joke has flown off the map.

Wooooooosh goes the Recon Training Condor
ZAP goes my army.

Recon training only effects infantry and vehicles, not aircraft/condors

coulda sworn that was the case
you mean Condors just have that much range period? christ allmighty

so thats why -Yoinking!- condors are annoying didnt realize their range was christ almighty

what are you talking about? In the history of 2v2 on hw2 at no point has a team made a combined 240 pop of the same unit.

SkiesOfBullets wrote:

Okay, the fact that an almost full pop of anti air cant take out a full pop of air with engineers or nightingales is terrible.
The developers keep buffing and nerfing,
and never seems to solve the problem.

I think its because the anti-air ALWAYS focus fire.
No matter what. So the end result is about 80% of the missiles missing their target completely because it died before the others could get there.
I want the choice to focus fire, not for it to be made for me...It's a consistent loss unless I spread out my anti air S I G N I F I C A N T L Y, hit and run, or micromanage every single anti-air to every banshee.

tl;dr: Anti air should just aim at any air unit or that they can only have 3 anti aimed at a unit at one time unless told otherwise by actively selecting an enemy.please.

anti air is hurtin' real bad.

you need to micro EVERY AA to beat Banshees? Banshees suck bro. Wolfs need a buff or two but they still easily compete against Banshees, Deci can be a frivolous problem for them though with Warlord and Deci with mass Banshees.

GlassH2Opipe wrote:

Viper Skills wrote:

The game and its developers need to decide on who their target market is, Team play or 1 v 1 because all the changes done impact every player that comes along.

At this moment all balance changes are made to make 1v1 matches more balanced. Not saying the developers are looking to make team games more balanced as well, but this is their route they're taking right now.

Raineeger wrote:

GlassH2Opipe wrote:

Viper Skills wrote:

Jup,

Thats true.
Taking out a base should require at least 1-2 artillery units as support or a few tanks.
If full pop air can take out shielded/base with 3 AA turrets then...why build anything else?
AA turrets atm last only few seconds against full pop Air and are technically useless.( but for some odd reason i still build them )
Air needs some kind of disadvantage compared to all the advantages it has.

So far it is the only unit with only "Pro"s and no "Con"s.
Its cheap( cheaper than its counter unit ) - requires no power
Stronger in numbers than any other unit.
Faster than any other unit.
Can use terrain in its advantage.
Has best field of view
Air can take out all minibases before you can react - vehicles can't really do that( on larger maps )
Air can quickly defend against other air units - ground units can't( why build AA if you can build air to counter air ? )
Air avoids most leader powers - e.g ground must deal with devastating mines, infusion pools etc.
Air avoids long range defences, like artillery turrets, well deployed Kodiaks/Blisterbacks, and paviums super arti.

This is just huge advantage.

Holy, man.

Turrets are meant to help you on defence, not just wipe out 80 pop while you sit on your hands.

80 pop of Banshees would cost 6,500 blue.

Three AA turrets (UNSC) would cost, what, 900 blue and 900 yellow? In what universe is it okay for something that costs 1,800 resources to beat something that costs four times that.

Should three AV turrets also beat 80 pop or Warthogs? Are we trying to play turret defence here? Turrets are already prolonging games long enough, there is zero reason that turrets need to do that well.

Air has a few positives; it’s mobility and is strength when massed. That’s it.

Air units are near unusable in T2 because they lose to almost everything. They’re sooooooo bad it actually hurts me.

Raineeger wrote:

Sadder Joker wrote:

Raineeger wrote:

GlassH2Opipe wrote:

Viper Skills wrote:

Hello Halo Wars 2 community,

Because it is such a hot topic with strong opinions on both sides, this thread is now the dedicated thread for discussion of air vs. anti-air (or any other unit) interaction. Is air overpowered? Underpowered? Why or why not?

Please keep all discussion of air units confined to this thread.

Thank you

There is no scenario acceptable anywhere that a fleet of basic aircraft should be able to take down a base with a sentry tower and three anti aircraft turrets. As soon as the base upgrade can accept turrets that 80/80 aircraft tactic should be effectively countered with turrets. Should there be damage from the attack absolutely but under no realistic circumstances will that base fall to just aircraft.

In our universe.
A simple IED costing less than 100$ can blow up a Main battle tank costing millions.

Also...Its not about beating the 3 AA turrets. If it were, i wouldnt care.
It's about destroying the entire base(which will happen if the AA turrets dont to sh*t), and the cost of an entire base with all the buildings and upgrades is...a lot more, if it happens to be your main base then its a game ender.
Base killers should be T3 air units only - blisterbacks/vultures/condors/
The rest are basically flying machine gun platforms which should be effective only against low armor units, e.g infantry, vehicles and other air( especially t3 air )
You can shoot a machine gun against a tank all day and nothing will happen. Same goes for buildings.
To take down a fortified bunker/building with machine guns will take time...chipping away concrete bit by bit. Lets say its not an efficient way to destroy buildings.

A simple IED? Certain weapons not damaging buildings? Brother, this is Halo Wars 2. Realism shouldn’t dictate RTS balancing. Yikes, man. Just yikes.

That right there proves to me you do not possess the game knowledge to discuss this. I’m sorry, I thought I could help, but I cannot. You are beyond helping.

I still believe air is over powered based on leaders used and artillery. First AA is useless against everything else and cost power and is weak overall, artillery still wrecks AA vehicle, air cost largely zero power unless upgrading or healers bought. Having to purchase AA units leave u at a disadvantage because in order to push u need a ground army and healers so vehicle and air pad needed plus upgrades along the way. Purchasing just 10 AA units 210 a piece 2100 power and 1750 supply banished. Thats tech 3 or base upgrades or vehicle upgrades. Either way i'm forced to play defensively due to costs to build a force that can push and they can get tech 3 upgrades while im still tech 2. People who do air pick leaders like decimus, kisano, ie. leaders whose passives or powers buff these units making counters less effective supporting this strategy. And they dont sit there they harass and limit ur movement and expansion because AA is slow and limited by terrain. Granted not everyone who goes air is great but it is still frustrating when they fly across the map and destroy things in five to 10 seconds. Ive done games where i won vs massed air in 2v2s but mostly by the skin of my teeth which in my opinion shouldn't happen AA should not struggle as it does. Just to mention infantry does not shred air granted if i build full or near full AA or infantry it could win but im left with units that cant attack for anything, artillery and LPs destroy these soft targets as well.

Possible changes to help:
1. Limit effectiveness passives have on massed air.
2. Make air slower and AA faster one or the other or both.
3. Give those who build counter AA more chances, put a power cost to air or further lessen cost of AA. I feel penalized when building AA.
4. Possible range increase of AA. Or have missiles explode like in real life where the missiles dont require contact with aircraft to inflict damage. Simply air burst near target with some amount of splash damage.
5. Further lessen artillery damage to AA.
6. Giving credit to TheWall or others for suggesting the making of a AA air unit as this may prove interesting and more effective. If done it should either match speed of air or surpass it.
7. Again specifically hornets still seem like flying tanks when backed by abilities. Banshees by others account seem literally like glass but I have yet to see a banished leader other decimus who frequents banshees and they seem quite capable. Two things a decimus does rush or build banshees or if not dead by rush then build banshees.

Just one last thing i am incredibly dumb and learned nothing from strategy games that i do not know how to counter or there really exists a problem involving massed air vs AA. To clarify AA kills air. If I build a full army and upgrade it and when LPs are used and when no moves their army. So at what cost does AA really counter air? Quite frankly air seemingly has less disadvantages by far.
The problem is the leaders (like decimus, kisano for example), maps(that support air over ground attacks), economy style(two resources), and AA vs air interactions (missiles missing or overkill and air's focus fire). Right now in order to completely wreck air you need a near or equally large force of AA to do so, avoid LPs near impossible, some how avoid artillery, and push an attack with a diverse army that has more costs than air does. I may also add that air has a limited means of countering=>infantry not so good slow and die by vehicle or artillery limited range, AA countered easily by anything, air vs air not really a counter, whereas AA has multiple counters=>infantry AT, core, artillery, tanks, core vehicles, and heroes. Note i am aware that counter units have limited role but whats the point in system of rock paper scissors when air out performs its counter unit by flying away or going toe to toe when LPs are used?