Forums / Games / Halo Wars 2

Air is still viable as a single unit balance issue

OP GeneralD3NCH

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Its funny that you've missed the point of this thread read title
Sigh. Fine, let's go through this.

Quote:
I have evidence as you requested in your rant in my updated post here and on Everything is broken again. Again
Very nice deflection of what I said, very nice.

Anyways, those tests cannot be classified as evidence, as there are far too many things done incorrectly. Allow me to explain.

First, there was no micro performed, by either side. If you're parking AA right under air units, you're doing it wrong. Another example of this, would be Wraiths VS AV. If I'm fighting AV with Wraiths, and my opponent stands in the Plasma from Plasma Mortar, the Wraiths will win. Are Wraiths also OP? I think not.

Secondly, a lot of the tests had extremely unrealistic army comps. If I'm fighting mass air, why would I have Rangers, Choppers, Locust, etc.? That makes zero sense. It takes a looooooong time to build up mass air, so there is no reason to have the incorrect army comp. the first test, where Reavers/Grunts were used was the only accurate representation of what kind of army comp should be used against mass air. Similarly, if I'm fighting mass Warthogs, why would I build Snipers?

Lastly, no abilities were used. This kind of goes along with micro, but oh well. In some of the tests, the army with AA had support units, but decided not to use them. Engineer Shields and Shroud cloaking would have changed the outcome of those interactions immensely.

Anyways, I don't care to argue this back and forth. It's tiring and it's getting us no where.

If you want to provide actual evidence, I offer you again to play against me, and we can share the gameplay with others to display how this works out in a real game. If you're not willing to do that, for whatever reason, I hope you can find some better evidence. Because that was embarrassing.
Embarrasing. Ha that's funny what's embarrising is your argument.
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
I've already tried breaking things down for to you; you won't listen. I've asked you to play against me and display this in action; you won't. I've offered to test with you; you won't. I've shared testing and videos displaying how air isn't strong; you deflect it and put offer inaccurate tests that display nothing.

Simply put, you're not worth my energy. This will be my last reply, as this is getting neither of us anywhere.

When youre ready to play, and display to me what's not balanced, you let me know.

Ciao.
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
I've already tried breaking things down for to you; you won't listen. I've asked you to play against me and display this in action; you won't. I've offered to test with you; you won't. I've shared testing and videos displaying how air isn't strong; you deflect it and put offer inaccurate tests that display nothing.

Simply put, you're not worth my energy. This will be my last reply, as this is getting neither of us anywhere.

When youre ready to play, and display to me what's not balanced, you let me know.

Ciao.
So yea me playing you will not prove anything that I've allready said as I've put forward in game metrics and facts but you seem to be dodging that hypothetical bullet and dismissing it even though its clearly in front of you every time you play the game.

Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.

Lastly please try to offer some constructive feedback on forums.
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.
Usually I take a backseat in "Air OP" discussions because I'm burnt out from the 700 that came before this one. But I will jump in to argue this point.

Your statements are not facts they are opinions. Data gathered by the developers is showing that air is abissmal in 1s, and is going down in win rates in team matches (which is a good thing).

Additionally, statements such as "man up" and "because you're so full of yourself" really detract from the discussion you're trying to foster.

On that note, just because someone doesn't agree with what you said does not mean it isn't constructive feedback. It faciliates discussion, which I believe is the definition of constructive feedback.
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
I've already tried breaking things down for to you; you won't listen. I've asked you to play against me and display this in action; you won't. I've offered to test with you; you won't. I've shared testing and videos displaying how air isn't strong; you deflect it and put offer inaccurate tests that display nothing.

Simply put, you're not worth my energy. This will be my last reply, as this is getting neither of us anywhere.

When youre ready to play, and display to me what's not balanced, you let me know.

Ciao.
So yea me playing you will not prove anything that I've allready said as I've put forward in game metrics and facts but you seem to be dodging that hypothetical bullet and dismissing it even though its clearly in front of you every time you play the game.

Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.

Lastly please try to offer some constructive feedback on forums.
Dude, you should totally take benefit of all the knowledge you have on air superiority (since no one seems to understand)... Go air and climb up the ladder and show the OP-ness that air is!
That will teach these so called pros!
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
I've already tried breaking things down for to you; you won't listen. I've asked you to play against me and display this in action; you won't. I've offered to test with you; you won't. I've shared testing and videos displaying how air isn't strong; you deflect it and put offer inaccurate tests that display nothing.

Simply put, you're not worth my energy. This will be my last reply, as this is getting neither of us anywhere.

When youre ready to play, and display to me what's not balanced, you let me know.

Ciao.
So yea me playing you will not prove anything that I've allready said as I've put forward in game metrics and facts but you seem to be dodging that hypothetical bullet and dismissing it even though its clearly in front of you every time you play the game.

Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.

Lastly please try to offer some constructive feedback on forums.
These threads are still happening? This is a troll thread right? You don't actually still think air is OP? It's borderline unusable in 1s, and really only viable in 3s. That being said it's rare to have more than 1 member of your team go air, so it would just be part of a logical mixed army composition.

*Facepalm*
Additionally if anyone is looking for video evidence on Air to AA interactions feel free to look at the air videos in this channel

I will say these tests were done before any of the AA buffs and Air nerfs, yet still Air lost. Which I think would further advocate the case that air is in fact not OP and it is user error when air causes someone to lose a match.
Air is not OP. Any unit could seem too strong without the proper game knowlege to combat said opposition. I recommend listening to others more than speaking on various RTS balance issues in order to use the details you learn to gather better conclusions. You've got some of the best players in the game providing feedback on this thread with you. Don't you think the players who experience exploitative aspects of the game in more frequent high-level matches would complain as well? Potentially the lack of others agreeing with you is a sign? Food for thought.
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
So yea me playing you will not prove anything that I've allready said as I've put forward in game metrics and facts but you seem to be dodging that hypothetical bullet and dismissing it even though its clearly in front of you every time you play the game.

Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.

Lastly please try to offer some constructive feedback on forums.
You're so full of yourself...Honestly, there is a lot of top players in this thread showing you evidence and feedback that it's not actually op (The link that Breezy linked you to shows everything)
Playing Joker will INDEED show you it's not OP, because he's gonna win while you go mass air and watch your army get demolished by 5 Reavers and a Hero.
I'd also offer to 1v1 you and you go mass air and i'll go someone that doesn't have major buffing passives (Decimus and Arbiter) to show you how OP air "really is" because it isn't at all.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
He has addressed and analyzed literally every point you have several times, and so have other players. You keep posting the same thing over and over again. Please, stop. You have no clue what you're talking about. Literally every high level player that has come into this thread has told you that you are wrong. Maybe listen to them and get better.
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
I've already tried breaking things down for to you; you won't listen. I've asked you to play against me and display this in action; you won't. I've offered to test with you; you won't. I've shared testing and videos displaying how air isn't strong; you deflect it and put offer inaccurate tests that display nothing.

Simply put, you're not worth my energy. This will be my last reply, as this is getting neither of us anywhere.

When youre ready to play, and display to me what's not balanced, you let me know.

Ciao.
So yea me playing you will not prove anything that I've allready said as I've put forward in game metrics and facts but you seem to be dodging that hypothetical bullet and dismissing it even though its clearly in front of you every time you play the game.

Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.

Lastly please try to offer some constructive feedback on forums.
Honestly you should 1v1 some of these people (or myself). In practice you might find using air in a 1v1 scenario far more difficult than it seems and several experienced players here want to demonstrate how they counter it. Worst case scenario from playing anyone in this thread is that you learn something about the interaction.
Additionally if anyone is looking for video evidence on Air to AA interactions feel free to look at the air videos in this channel

I will say these tests were done before any of the AA buffs and Air nerfs, yet still Air lost. Which I think would further advocate the case that air is in fact not OP and it is user error when air causes someone to lose a match.
In the one full pop AA vs full pop air he let's the AI do the targeting and doesn't focus down AA 1 by 1 so that's inconclusive evidence and bad testing vs a real player vs player enviornment.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
He has addressed and analyzed literally every point you have several times, and so have other players. You keep posting the same thing over and over again. Please, stop. You have no clue what you're talking about. Literally every high level player that has come into this thread has told you that you are wrong. Maybe listen to them and get better.
All I've stated is in game facts how can that be wrong this isn't an argument of right or wrong
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
So yea me playing you will not prove anything that I've allready said as I've put forward in game metrics and facts but you seem to be dodging that hypothetical bullet and dismissing it even though its clearly in front of you every time you play the game.

Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.

Lastly please try to offer some constructive feedback on forums.
You're so full of yourself...Honestly, there is a lot of top players in this thread showing you evidence and feedback that it's not actually op (The link that Breezy linked you to shows everything)
Playing Joker will INDEED show you it's not OP, because he's gonna win while you go mass air and watch your army get demolished by 5 Reavers and a Hero.
I'd also offer to 1v1 you and you go mass air and i'll go someone that doesn't have major buffing passives (Decimus and Arbiter) to show you how OP air "really is" because it isn't at all.
No I'm not full of myself if being full of yourself is relaying and analysing the in game values of unit cost and weighing them up against each other and value of units return on investment in a comprehensive and justified manner then I guess I am full of myself very little of what I've stated is opinion based it is all evidenced in the game itself.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members. This includes stat-flaming.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
Not being funny but some of you can't of read my post fully and comprehensively and these are reasons why what I've said is hard evidence.

1 I have allready stated the position on micromanagement in the video neither side micro managed but if air was to micro manage and focus the AA they would of been wiped out a lot faster.
The same does not apply to the AA as if they were to focus a single target the damage would be overkilling a single target and as for the argument about leader powers in the mix we all know air has the advantage on avoidance there.

2 ANTI AIR IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
You have to be blind or in denial to miss that fact, and I have allready done the calculations so you don't have to which again is irrefutable evidence based on in game metrics and facts.

3 The only defence people seem to come up with on the defending side of air comes down to player skill but here's the thing I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND WE HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME TOGETHER NOR HAVE WE SPOKEN.

SO GET SOME EVIDENCE.

4 People on this argument are not looking outside of the box and are in denial over the costs as this as allready been proven

5 Air is far cheaper than AA. Fact, postums and developers have stated air is over performing against its counter.

6 Air gives you much more bang for less buck than the AA. Scenario 1:

You build full AA to counter your opponents air in a 2v2 the air opponent sees the AA avoids it and snipes bases while the defender is left with nothing but units that can only attack air so theve now put thierselves at a severe disadvantage from ground assaults from the air spammers teammate and you can't even sell your expensive AA so you are stuck having to kamikaze some units to make pop room

7 The argument on which is more expensive power or supply pads is a stupid one and the rebuttles are even more stupid

8 POWER GENERATORS COST MORE THAN SUPPLY PADS. FACT

9 SUPPLY PADS DO NOT HAVE A SLIDING SCALE ON COST.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
So yea me playing you will not prove anything that I've allready said as I've put forward in game metrics and facts but you seem to be dodging that hypothetical bullet and dismissing it even though its clearly in front of you every time you play the game.

Furthermore stop dismissing what I've said as opinion it is FACT and you need to realise this and man up and let your ego take a back seat.

Lastly please try to offer some constructive feedback on forums.
You're so full of yourself...Honestly, there is a lot of top players in this thread showing you evidence and feedback that it's not actually op (The link that Breezy linked you to shows everything)
Playing Joker will INDEED show you it's not OP, because he's gonna win while you go mass air and watch your army get demolished by 5 Reavers and a Hero.
I'd also offer to 1v1 you and you go mass air and i'll go someone that doesn't have major buffing passives (Decimus and Arbiter) to show you how OP air "really is" because it isn't at all.
No I'm not full of myself if being full of yourself is relaying and analysing the in game values of unit cost and weighing them up against each other and value of units return on investment in a comprehensive and justified manner then I guess I am full of myself very little of what I've stated is opinion based it is all evidenced in the game itself.
Your evidence was a cappy team respawn video and I'm pretty sure AA still won the engagements lul
BtC Slick wrote:
Air is not OP. Any unit could seem too strong without the proper game knowlege to combat said opposition. I recommend listening to others more than speaking on various RTS balance issues in order to use the details you learn to gather better conclusions. You've got some of the best players in the game providing feedback on this thread with you. Don't you think the players who experience exploitative aspects of the game in more frequent high-level matches would complain as well? Potentially the lack of others agreeing with you is a sign? Food for thought.
BtC Slick wrote:
Air is not OP. Any unit could seem too strong without the proper game knowlege to combat said opposition. I recommend listening to others more than speaking on various RTS balance issues in order to use the details you learn to gather better conclusions. You've got some of the best players in the game providing feedback on this thread with you. Don't you think the players who experience exploitative aspects of the game in more frequent high-level matches would complain as well? Potentially the lack of others agreeing with you is a sign? Food for thought.
Its not that air is too strong its that its counter is too weak and to expensive plus a bad return on investment vs all air as of right now the best counter to air is all air and some infrantry which is not excatly what is considered balanced if its counter underperforms.

I believe very little should be done against air I'm more concerned about the state of its actual counter anti air and a lot of people seem to be lashing out at myself and proposing everything I've said is opinion based which its not.

its actually in the game in front of you every time you play as all I've mentioned is quotes from developers and in game unit cost and versatility.

And than there's the fact that air is a viable single unit army which is highly unbalanced and removes the need to build other units in the game whereas AA is not viable as a counter unless you catch the air opponent off guard and even then your AA is much more vunerable to leader power retaliation.

PS love your videos keep up the great content.
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I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(sorry, mods)
I think you've run out of things to say and also can't comeback to what I've said because its fact and you know it but your ego won't allow you to agree with a diamond player because your so full of yourself being a pro.
He has addressed and analyzed literally every point you have several times, and so have other players. You keep posting the same thing over and over again. Please, stop. You have no clue what you're talking about. Literally every high level player that has come into this thread has told you that you are wrong. Maybe listen to them and get better.
All I've stated is in game facts how can that be wrong this isn't an argument of right or wrong
But you're REFUSING to play anyone that will shoe you air isn't OP because you know you'll lose.
Like you said you're a Diamond 5 most likely and have no idea how to balance out a game.
If you get caught off guard by 40 T3 Banshees with T1 AA or something you deserved to lose the game.
What I've stated doesn't merit a 1v1 as my argument is based primarily around economy and versatility not combat effectiveness so me getting infantry rushed won't prove anything.
Somehow I get the feeling that to you, nothing will prove anything...
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