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Air is too dominant.

OP ChodeHawk11

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Can't tell you how many times mass air is used so often in almost every 2v2 or 3v3 and it is such a tough time to counter it. Air's strongest ability is its mobility. It is not restricted to any paths that infantry and vehicles are. They can move straight through bridges, debris, obstacles, and over hills that other units cannot follow them. Again with their speed, it makes them more nifty that they can avoid most powerful leader powers. Not effected by mines, and completely ignoring any artillery. On top of how cheap and low pop it takes to make them. While yes wolverines and reavers can make work of air. Air has the mobility to strafe and avoid an anti air army. They could move on to another base, rinse it. Army comes but the base is already gone. While air can repop and continue to another base or area immediately simply because of how mobile they are. Remember the triangle counter? You know, the Vehicles>Infantry Vehicles<Air Infantry>Air. While yes, this is true that Air dominates the majority of vehicles other than the counter units. This is not particularly true for the match up of Air vs Infantry. Most infantry cannot even shoot air, and if they can. They are mostly really ineffective at dealing with it. Air needs more counterplay, just like vehicles do, just like infantry does. I suggest a rework of the infantry vs air dynamic to be looked upon and reviewed. As well as possibly increasing the range that grunts and marines can shoot air, since they struggle at catching them in their range. Air really isnt an issue until at least late game with max tier 3 upgrades. An early game they can still be defeated having enough marines or grunts. But issue is, that those units become no longer feasible into mid-late game. So they eventually get phased out as the counter play and strats get more rigid. Their needs to be some sort of restriction on their greatest strength also, which is their mobility. I've been thinking that reavers and wolves could possibly have a splash effect where they decrease their agility and turning speed in groups, so it can dim down the hit and run strat. I also think that upgraded anti air turrets could also have same splash effect too. That way bases aren't at their mercy so easily.
I mean no offence, but you have less than 50 games played. Give yourself some time to learn the game before making blanket statements like this.

Air, especially T2 air, is not an issue. It’s very easy to manage once you’ve got your footing on what you should be doing. I understand air can be annoying to fight if you’re playing team games solo Q, since randoms are a yikes, but that’s a skill / coordination issue, not an air issue.
This is my second account...
Air is realtively weak units, my only problem is their speed because they have the incredible advantage of dodging leader powers especially Deci's banshees.
Individually yes, they're weak. But once they start swarming they become difficult to stop. Specifically because of their lost cost/pop and speed.
I am someone that mostly uses air leaders and units. I have over 250 games with anders on my main account so far.

Hornets are far to cheap vs their AA counters. Same applies to banshees.

Wolverines are far too expensive for their health and damage output. Reavers are a bit better but are still bad. Infantry do next to nothing unless a big ball of them hits me and that typically only kills 5 or so units. I can then just spit out more air units because they are super cheap at that point.

AA turrets are pretty useless. I just swarm their bases with hornets/banshees and they die almost instantly. UNSC is weakest because no shielding.

If they build up enough AA units I can always just glass them and they die almost instantly.
Also you cannot out-maneuverer my air swarms on console. The console users just do not have the speed needed to run away or split their forces. Pc users are fine because mouse and keyboard is infinitely better at splitting units and control groups. Console users have to commit and pray they survive.
I just played a game and I think the problem is that if you let Decimus especially too much time to build you are screwed whatever you do to counter it... So yeah mass air is a problem.
It's called building anti-air orientated units. Halo Wars has always followed the "Rock, Paper, Scissors" trope. Infantry beats Air, Air beats Vehicle, Vehicle beats Infantry. If you are having issues with air units, build the right unit type to counter it. Not to mention there are specific units made for destroying air units depending on the Leader you are playing. Even if your opponent is taking advantage of cheap/fast training for Air units, countering them with the correct units will make it easier to deal with them.
Everyone knows that obviously. If you read the post. The issue isn't air at early to midgame. Since marines and grunts can still deal with them. The issue is Tier 3 mass air. Specifically in late-game. Even with the correct anti air army setup. Dropping a leader power on your army and wiping it, will make it significantly hard for you to repop since wolves and reavers are so expensive and do not build as fast as air do. Losing your correct army setup will set you back farther in eco then losing the air. Not only that. But air can harass your bases and the correct anti air army cannot catch or keep the chase on them. Since they can fly over most spaces quickly other units can't.
My air unit spam absolutely ruins AA/counter units. They're cheap to build as I can easily save energy for upgrades/more powerful air units. I literally just spam hornets/banshees and by the time my opponent has a third of what I have (due to their poor energy saving) I have vultures or wraiths to ruin their AA.

The fact that I can oppressively pump out mobile swarms of death whilst actively draining my opponents entire energy reserve is bad. They cannot sav any energy to deal with my death balls whilst I can easily save up and respond to anything they do. Not to mention AA is weak as hell. A ball of hornets absolutely annihilates a full army of wolverines. Reavers are slightly better but still weak.

Rock paper my -Yoink-. The only counter to air is more air.
SirFoxUwU wrote:
Rock paper my -Yoink-. The only counter to air is more air.
^This.

We all know the canned answer - "just build AA and counter with infantry u noob".

But it just doesn't work like that. Hornets and Vulture wipe the floor with infantry. Almost no infantry is equipped with high-damage weapons that can target air. Upgraded Marines and Heavy Grunts can help, but just not enough. Reavers are acceptable because they do burst damage, Wolverines are underpowered because they don't.

And this isn't from a salty tryhard, mind you. I'm a casual and usually I like to avoid making strong pronouncements on meta. But I've been burned so many times by Vulture/Hornet/Nightingale blobs. You HAVE to focus fire - by the time you take out one or two air units, they've easily reduced your incoming firepower by a quarter or a third.

In short, Air is TOO good, especially against it's "counters".
In my experience the only leader that can defeat mass Air is Johnson.... T3 Mantises can really hold their ground because they’re just as cheap to build

I love it.... you just have to get to T3 which is the hard part lol
Mantises are a unit that scales nicely at every tier.

And I think ultimately that may be part of the problem. Air units have powerful upgrades that help them to scale and keep them relevant throughout the game and OP in the late game. The AA vehicles have no such scalability, and there's precious little else that could be considered a real counter to air, aside from bombardment type support powers, and even then those can be dodged more often than not.
after playing a few matches today

My issue with air is..... mass air and engineers is way OP..... especially dealing with shipmaster.... combined with cloaked banished bases it’s very challenging

I feel as though UNSC vs Banished is still too unbalanced

there should be a pop limit on air because too many players take advantage and win the lazy way

I refuse to mass air... if I lose I lose
after playing a few matches today

My issue with air is..... mass air and engineers is way OP..... especially dealing with shipmaster.... combined with cloaked banished bases it’s very challenging

I feel as though UNSC vs Banished is still too unbalanced

there should be a pop limit on air because too many players take advantage and win the lazy way

I refuse to mass air... if I lose I lose
An honorable man
Air is only "dominate" in 3s, it's not in 2s or 1s.
Games balanced around 1v1s as well so if they start doing changes around 3s this game is gonna get worse than it already is.
Air is only "dominate" in 3s, it's not in 2s or 1s.
Games balanced around 1v1s as well so if they start doing changes around 3s this game is gonna get worse than it already is.
Not necessarily, since in actuality. How much counter-play does mass air really have? Essentially in the late game. They held a tourney one time from the channel Breaking the Clutch. Where a mass air deci was having the opponent on the defensive majority of the late game despite him having the correct anti army setup.
Air is only "dominate" in 3s, it's not in 2s or 1s.
Games balanced around 1v1s as well so if they start doing changes around 3s this game is gonna get worse than it already is.
Not necessarily, since in actuality. How much counter-play does mass air really have? Essentially in the late game. They held a tourney one time from the channel Breaking the Clutch. Where a mass air deci was having the opponent on the defensive majority of the late game despite him having the correct anti army setup.
Look at any other tourney at high play, you'll rarely see Air.
Air is only "dominate" in 3s, it's not in 2s or 1s.
Games balanced around 1v1s as well so if they start doing changes around 3s this game is gonna get worse than it already is.
Not necessarily, since in actuality. How much counter-play does mass air really have? Essentially in the late game. They held a tourney one time from the channel Breaking the Clutch. Where a mass air deci was having the opponent on the defensive majority of the late game despite him having the correct anti army setup.
Look at any other tourney at high play, you'll rarely see Air.
https://youtu.be/cFquNbWrC8s
The Vulture play with those nukes oppressed and sealed the other players fate.
Not much he could do for counterplay against the hit and run nukes.
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