[Locked] Appeal to 343, Dont Buff Anti Air

DA Cleric wrote:

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

DA Cleric wrote:

Appreciate your efforts and tests, but I still think air (especially Decimus Banshees upgraded) vs wolverines are problematic in games when leader powers are involved. This debate has gone on for a long time, but the fact that it has been such a point of contention, I personally believe, shows that there is something wrong with the mechanic. Maybe I am jaded against Decimus Banshees because that is the air I see most, but I think adding an AoE will help against clumps of banshees or hornets before they can flee. The hit and run nature of air is what gets it, as they can widdle away at your forces with minimal losses, while the anti-air can't diminish the air numbers in a significant manner. Sure, air can't take down a base very quickly, but air sure can dominate the field and suffocate you, especially when used with leader powers. Anyway, I know many disagree, but I wanted to respond to this plea since I am in favor of the adjustment. Not everyone on this forum is against the anti-air 'buff'.

You reference Decimus Banshees, which most agree are a little OP. Wouldn't that mean the problem is with Decimus and his passives rather than air and AA?

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

So, let me see if I get it, you posted a video where the Wingman Hornets stamp and it's the player's fault, nothing wrong with air. Is not like you can ensure your T3 spam by having seige turrets or a competent ally keeping the enemy away.

Seeing the videos, I do agree that T2 air is bad, but an upgrade shouldn't be able to reverse things on Hornets favour, so yeah, maybe AA would not need a buff, as long as Wingman is kicked to the same spot that Plasma Torpedo was.

Getting to T3 by one teammate holding off a minimum of two enemies is highly unlikely. If you have a teammate that can do that you don't even need a T3 army. Additionally Siege Turrets are really strong but are also super expensive. I don't see how you can boom to T3 while also spamming Siege Turrets

Breezy, I know you (and others) think AA is fine, I do not. Maybe I am not as good as you guys, or have as much time to play as you guys, but I have always felt the interaction was not fine. There is definitely a problem with Decimus Banshees, no doubt, so we are in agreement there. I still am of the opinion that if not looking at it in a vacuum, that there is a problem with AA in how games play out, at least to me and my friends. Maybe, I don't have the best handle on it at the moment, in light of the Voridus, Pavium, and most definitely Colony problems, that I don't even see widespread air usage, but I still believe there are problems. Not saying air is OP, but to me and my friends, AA doesn't work like it should.

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

DC Longshot wrote:

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

So, let me see if I get it, you posted a video where the Wingman Hornets stamp and it's the player's fault, nothing wrong with air. Is not like you can ensure your T3 spam by having seige turrets or a competent ally keeping the enemy away.

Seeing the videos, I do agree that T2 air is bad, but an upgrade shouldn't be able to reverse things on Hornets favour, so yeah, maybe AA would not need a buff, as long as Wingman is kicked to the same spot that Plasma Torpedo was.

What video were you watching???? The wingman hornets didn't stomp. Only 3 were barely alive which is close enough that micro and leader powers would sway the outcome either way. I'd almost call it a draw if it wasn't for the fact that the wingman hornets cost 2150 more supply and 730 more power! That would allow for reinforcements 1 and 4 more mechs. In a real game those funds would've gone towards more generators or an extra base or both, building up the supporting economy which would've led to more upgrades, quicker. The mechs clearly had that.

30 WH vs 16 Hogsr + 8 Wolvs, there were more than 6 Hornets left

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

DA Cleric wrote:

Appreciate your efforts and tests, but I still think air (especially Decimus Banshees upgraded) vs wolverines are problematic in games when leader powers are involved. This debate has gone on for a long time, but the fact that it has been such a point of contention, I personally believe, shows that there is something wrong with the mechanic. Maybe I am jaded against Decimus Banshees because that is the air I see most, but I think adding an AoE will help against clumps of banshees or hornets before they can flee. The hit and run nature of air is what gets it, as they can widdle away at your forces with minimal losses, while the anti-air can't diminish the air numbers in a significant manner. Sure, air can't take down a base very quickly, but air sure can dominate the field and suffocate you, especially when used with leader powers. Anyway, I know many disagree, but I wanted to respond to this plea since I am in favor of the adjustment. Not everyone on this forum is against the anti-air 'buff'.

You reference Decimus Banshees, which most agree are a little OP. Wouldn't that mean the problem is with Decimus and his passives rather than air and AA?

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

So, let me see if I get it, you posted a video where the Wingman Hornets stamp and it's the player's fault, nothing wrong with air. Is not like you can ensure your T3 spam by having seige turrets or a competent ally keeping the enemy away.

Seeing the videos, I do agree that T2 air is bad, but an upgrade shouldn't be able to reverse things on Hornets favour, so yeah, maybe AA would not need a buff, as long as Wingman is kicked to the same spot that Plasma Torpedo was.

Getting to T3 by one teammate holding off a minimum of two enemies is highly unlikely. If you have a teammate that can do that you don't even need a T3 army. Additionally Siege Turrets are really strong but are also super expensive. I don't see how you can boom to T3 while also spamming Siege Turrets

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

DA Cleric wrote:

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

So, let me see if I get it, you posted a video where the Wingman Hornets stamp and it's the player's fault, nothing wrong with air. Is not like you can ensure your T3 spam by having seige turrets or a competent ally keeping the enemy away.

Seeing the videos, I do agree that T2 air is bad, but an upgrade shouldn't be able to reverse things on Hornets favour, so yeah, maybe AA would not need a buff, as long as Wingman is kicked to the same spot that Plasma Torpedo was.

Getting to T3 by one teammate holding off a minimum of two enemies is highly unlikely. If you have a teammate that can do that you don't even need a T3 army. Additionally Siege Turrets are really strong but are also super expensive. I don't see how you can boom to T3 while also spamming Siege Turrets

Not as unlikely while paying randoms, trust me, it also depends the leader. Forge, Jerome, Pavium, Decimus and of course GooLord can hold the line fine, either with heroes or leader powers (passive or active)

Playing with randoms is a big mess that no tinkering of gameplay will fix.

As for the leaders you listed the only one could hold off two players in high level play is Voridus, who is stupidly broken right now.

FungusUCantKill wrote:

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

DA Cleric wrote:

You reference Decimus Banshees, which most agree are a little OP. Wouldn't that mean the problem is with Decimus and his passives rather than air and AA?

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

Getting to T3 by one teammate holding off a minimum of two enemies is highly unlikely. If you have a teammate that can do that you don't even need a T3 army. Additionally Siege Turrets are really strong but are also super expensive. I don't see how you can boom to T3 while also spamming Siege Turrets

Not as unlikely while paying randoms, trust me, it also depends the leader. Forge, Jerome, Pavium, Decimus and of course GooLord can hold the line fine, either with heroes or leader powers (passive or active)

How are you playing as Jerome and holding off two players?
We need the J-ro that you're using.

FungusUCantKill wrote:

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

DA Cleric wrote:

You reference Decimus Banshees, which most agree are a little OP. Wouldn't that mean the problem is with Decimus and his passives rather than air and AA?

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

Getting to T3 by one teammate holding off a minimum of two enemies is highly unlikely. If you have a teammate that can do that you don't even need a T3 army. Additionally Siege Turrets are really strong but are also super expensive. I don't see how you can boom to T3 while also spamming Siege Turrets

Not as unlikely while paying randoms, trust me, it also depends the leader. Forge, Jerome, Pavium, Decimus and of course GooLord can hold the line fine, either with heroes or leader powers (passive or active)

How are you playing as Jerome and holding off two players?
We need the J-ro that you're using.

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

BreezyStarfish1 wrote:

DA Cleric wrote:

Shadow DRAC 086 wrote:

So, let me see if I get it, you posted a video where the Wingman Hornets stamp and it's the player's fault, nothing wrong with air. Is not like you can ensure your T3 spam by having seige turrets or a competent ally keeping the enemy away.

Seeing the videos, I do agree that T2 air is bad, but an upgrade shouldn't be able to reverse things on Hornets favour, so yeah, maybe AA would not need a buff, as long as Wingman is kicked to the same spot that Plasma Torpedo was.

Getting to T3 by one teammate holding off a minimum of two enemies is highly unlikely. If you have a teammate that can do that you don't even need a T3 army. Additionally Siege Turrets are really strong but are also super expensive. I don't see how you can boom to T3 while also spamming Siege Turrets

Not as unlikely while paying randoms, trust me, it also depends the leader. Forge, Jerome, Pavium, Decimus and of course GooLord can hold the line fine, either with heroes or leader powers (passive or active)

Playing with randoms is a big mess that no tinkering of gameplay will fix.

As for the leaders you listed the only one could hold off two players in high level play is Voridus, who is stupidly broken right now.

Could we leave that "High Level Play" out? For starts you surely don't play with randoms at team high level. Second is that looking in some champ's service records I noticed that if they're not abusing Colony, they're abusing Voridus' and if not they simply spam core vehicles.

cactusman82 wrote:

Thank you for this, really informative. Any chance of one with vulture spam just out of interest.

DeathRitual4977 wrote:

LargeGODZILLA wrote:

I think there is a solution for everyone to be happy. Buff nothing, but have an 8% health addition t3 upgrade available that cost 1000 power to the wolves. 800 power t3 upgrade option for the reavers with a 6% health boost. That is a small buff for the cost of power but I don't think it would make air useless; especially mid game since there is no change there.

that is a great idea or even have an upgrade that slightly increases AoE range.