Skip to main content

Forums / Games / Halo Wars Series

[Locked] ATN Not In Season Pass?

OP H8TRFFC

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. ...
  9. 59
xx slushie wrote:
xx slushie wrote:
TYRELL zx wrote:
Does 343 really want to be beaten by EA? Because that's what is happening.

Star Wars Battlefront 2 will have all of its DLC be free (or at least the first season's).

Seriously, what they are doing with this is worse than EA.

WORSE THAN EA!
EA has an impressive track record to make up for. The two situations aren't even comparable. EA had the balls to put 'Battlefront' on their game when it had almost no resemblance to the original beauties of Battlefront I and II.
You know what we say in Germany for handling things like this?

Everything which is legally correct is not morally okay.

If we would have an official lawsuit about this 343 would argue that the Season Pass was never said to cover ALL content to be released. But what is the average expectation or the current "street opinion" of buyers of season passes in games?

That it COVERS all DLC policy AFTER the release itself. I hope that this DLC policy backfires hard. And btw.. you can keep Halo 6 for yourself. And I am not gonna pre-order Xone X.
Why are you expecting it to cover all of the DLC when it never specified as much? In fact, it says that it will cover everything within 6 months of the game's launch. That time ends here in about 2 months, and with ATN launching in Fall of 2017, it seems they are doing everything legally fine. And because they didn't mislead anyone here, it seems they are ethically in the right as well.

What seems out of line are people's expectations. That is evidenced when you said "the street opinion" of a season pass is that it covers all content. It's better to read the description of the season pass than trust street opinion, in my mind.
How long has the description said 6 months worth of content? I don't recall that when I preordered the Ultimate Edition in Dec 2016.
Perhaps someone more tech-savvy than myself could go look at archived versions of it. But I distinctly remember a few forum posts on here about it when it was announced. People asking, "Does this mean there will be content beyond that timeframe?"
Yeah, I mean I'm not doubting that it said that. It's just been so long that I can take remember what it said, and I did see people say a few weeks ago that they had recently changed the description for the Season Pass.
I think the issue was that it supposedly said something about more maps, then 343 said they had no plans to release more maps.
Myrmidont wrote:
This really sucks. What is the point of a Season Pass if you don't get all future content?

And 20 bucks is an insane asking price for this. The game isn't exactly content-heavy to begin with.

Myrmidont wrote:
I'm more surprised that people expected an entire expansion to be given away to them.
An "Expansion" is more than 2 missions, a couple new leaders, and 1 new mode...

I miss the days where expansions added a sequel's worth of content to a game...
I missed the part where an entire campaign is two missions, can you point out where that was said? There's also an extra two multiplayer maps on top of it.

Also, I guess everybody missed the part where this was absolutely not outlined as something you were going to get as part of the season pass.

It's not 343's fault that you all set yourselves up for disappointment despite the information already available being perfectly clear.
Erm, yes, it is their fault.

1. The season pass NEVER specified that there was DLC that would be exempt from it.

2. They've deliberately changed the season pass description at least once, and this was AFTER people bought it.

3. Season passes, unless specifically specified, are supposed to include ALL DLC.

And those maps had better be free, since 343 has said any new maps will be free...
2. This is an issue I am only dimly aware of and if it is true they did that, it's a pretty low move.
I can confirm that it's true, however people are twisting it a little.

This is the original description of the season pass:

"Grow your war chest with the Halo Wars 2 Season Pass. The Season Pass delivers regular updates that span more than six months and include: New Leaders with abilities that change the course of multiplayer battles, new Units that add to your multiplayer arsenal, a new campaign expansion with exclusive missions, and even more content to be announced soon."

This is the new version:

"Grow your war chest with the Halo Wars 2 Season Pass. The Season Pass delivers regular updates that span more than six months, including: New Leaders with abilities that change the course of multiplayer matches, new Units that add to your multiplayer arsenal, new Blitz cards to collect and take into battle, and new campaign missions that expand the Halo Wars 2 story."

This is also something that only happened on the Windows store. GameStop, Amazon, and I assume many other places still use the original description.

The only change is that they swapped out "campaign expansion with exclusive missions" to "new campaign missions that expand the Halo Wars 2 story. It still supports the fact that 343i didn't lie about any of this. At all. We're still getting Spearbreaker but we now know it's only two missions. But that doesn't change anything. Two missions or not, it still expands the story and adds more missions to the campaign. People are changing the definition to make it sound like the word 'expansion' has to be this giant package of content.
The ice on which 343 is moving here is incredibly thin.
TYRELL zx wrote:
Myrmidont wrote:
This really sucks. What is the point of a Season Pass if you don't get all future content?

And 20 bucks is an insane asking price for this. The game isn't exactly content-heavy to begin with.

Myrmidont wrote:
I'm more surprised that people expected an entire expansion to be given away to them.
An "Expansion" is more than 2 missions, a couple new leaders, and 1 new mode...

I miss the days where expansions added a sequel's worth of content to a game...
I missed the part where an entire campaign is two missions, can you point out where that was said? There's also an extra two multiplayer maps on top of it.

Also, I guess everybody missed the part where this was absolutely not outlined as something you were going to get as part of the season pass.

It's not 343's fault that you all set yourselves up for disappointment despite the information already available being perfectly clear.
Erm, yes, it is their fault.

1. The season pass NEVER specified that there was DLC that would be exempt from it.

2. They've deliberately changed the season pass description at least once, and this was AFTER people bought it.

3. Season passes, unless specifically specified, are supposed to include ALL DLC.

And those maps had better be free, since 343 has said any new maps will be free...
2. This is an issue I am only dimly aware of and if it is true they did that, it's a pretty low move.
I can confirm that it's true, however people are twisting it a little.

This is the original description of the season pass:

"Grow your war chest with the Halo Wars 2 Season Pass. The Season Pass delivers regular updates that span more than six months and include: New Leaders with abilities that change the course of multiplayer battles, new Units that add to your multiplayer arsenal, a new campaign expansion with exclusive missions, and even more content to be announced soon."

This is the new version:

"Grow your war chest with the Halo Wars 2 Season Pass. The Season Pass delivers regular updates that span more than six months, including: New Leaders with abilities that change the course of multiplayer matches, new Units that add to your multiplayer arsenal, new Blitz cards to collect and take into battle, and new campaign missions that expand the Halo Wars 2 story."

This is also something that only happened on the Windows store. GameStop, Amazon, and I assume many other places still use the original description.

The only change is that they swapped out "campaign expansion with exclusive missions" to "new campaign missions that expand the Halo Wars 2 story. It still supports the fact that 343i didn't lie about any of this. At all. We're still getting Spearbreaker but we now know it's only two missions. But that doesn't change anything. Two missions or not, it still expands the story and adds more missions to the campaign. People are changing the definition to make it sound like the word 'expansion' has to be this giant package of content.
The ice on which 343 is moving here is incredibly thin.
It is, but people are acting like this is enough proof to call 343i worse than EA when they never outright lied to it's fans. They twisted a few words yes, but they never lied about anything. If you want to get upset about them twisting words, go ahead because they actually did that. But don't get mad at them for something that they never did.

Again, I'm not happy about this being separate from the season pass either, but everything I've seen brought up in this thread and more about how 343i "lied" or "screwed fans over" is evidence that either doesn't exist or can be broken down and used against them easily. I find the $20 price tag justified. We're getting a full campaign, two leaders, a game mode, and Blur cutscenes. One of those things costs a million a minute to produce.
To be much more specific to the previous post:

I cant imagine that very common things in legal aspects are that different in America. If a specific behaviour, a common expectation accepted widely in the population and it is taken for being the "natural situation" is not even legally written down, can become as strong as official laws or statues. [Here the widely expected oppinion and industry standard that a Season Pass provides for all of the Post Launch Content].

If a company would go ahead and act in a very targeted way against this common expectation to gain a profit from it, it is not more or less but customer missleading and manipulation. [343 Industries sells Post Launch Content for 20$ even for Season Pass Holders who have paid 30$ extra with the descriptions that the Season Pass covers for the Post Launch Content].

This is exactly what happens right now right here. It would be such a pleasure to bring this case to a point where legal professionals would have to analyze this.I think that 343 would be very surprised about the outcome. GG
Myrmidont wrote:
I'm more surprised that people expected an entire expansion to be given away to them.
yeah this makes me unhappy

i wanted new campaign missions
i wanted flood
i wanted firefight

i didnt want to have to pay twice for it. I bought the ultimate edition expecting to get all DLC yet get no new campaign? this makes me feel messed up real bad
This. If the campaign is the size of the original then it makes sense for them to charge. Other RTS games have season passes for maps and new leaders but a new expansion always means more money. Plus, the Season Pass fine print has always said that it only lasts for 6 months after launch.
its not 'given to you' if you pay for the season pass, thats called buying it

they should have mentioned it off the bat it was going to cost money and let us pre-order that instead of wasting money on the season pass
Myrmidont wrote:
I'm more surprised that people expected an entire expansion to be given away to them.
yeah this makes me unhappy

i wanted new campaign missions
i wanted flood
i wanted firefight

i didnt want to have to pay twice for it. I bought the ultimate edition expecting to get all DLC yet get no new campaign? this makes me feel messed up real bad
This. If the campaign is the size of the original then it makes sense for them to charge. Other RTS games have season passes for maps and new leaders but a new expansion always means more money. Plus, the Season Pass fine print has always said that it only lasts for 6 months after launch.
its not 'given to you' if you pay for the season pass, thats called buying it

they should have mentioned it off the bat it was going to cost money and let us pre-order that instead of wasting money on the season pass
It was not clear, it was missleading.

In other Industries companies would have to pay billions for making mistakes like this and decepting customers in what to expect and not to expect from a product.
I have Ultimate Edition and want to buy next DLC's. But I am only playing this game on PC and don't have an xbox. So I wonder if this game is going to be on steam and if it goes will we able to cross play with them. If we can't crossplay then every money is a waste because of it's dead on pc atm. Oh and a dollar is 3.5 times of my local money, so it is really important for me.

Can you tell us something about that please? ske7chstckrboyEdit: Viper Skills
To my understanding, the last thing 343 said about Halo Wars 2 and Steam is that they had no plans to put it on Steam. But maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong on this one.
I have Ultimate Edition and want to buy next DLC's. But I am only playing this game on PC and don't have an xbox. So I wonder if this game is going to be on steam and if it goes will we able to cross play with them. If we can't crossplay then every money is a waste because of it's dead on pc atm. Oh and a dollar is 3.5 times of my local money, so it is really important for me.

Can you tell us something about that please? ske7chstckrboyEdit: Viper Skills
To my understanding, the last thing 343 said about Halo Wars 2 and Steam is that they had no plans to put it on Steam. But maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong on this one.
I'm pretty sure someone at Microsoft said it's going on steam, I'll find the quote
I think the problem people had is that no one was really expecting there to be anything of this scale in addition to a season pass. It was never said anywhere that there would be major DLC outside of it, and we've come to expect that a season pass will cover the bulk of DLC for a game, typically over the games first six months to the first year.

I don't have a problem with a large paid expansion, I just think they've shot themselves in the foot a bit by not announcing the plans to have major expansions, cause then you get half the fanbase jumping to conclusions and forming opinions based on assumptions. It's strange that you wouldn't even put an asterisk with a caveat at the bottom of the page saying covering additional in-game purchases.

They should have called it a Leader Pass instead of a Season Pass or something.
I have Ultimate Edition and want to buy next DLC's. But I am only playing this game on PC and don't have an xbox. So I wonder if this game is going to be on steam and if it goes will we able to cross play with them. If we can't crossplay then every money is a waste because of it's dead on pc atm. Oh and a dollar is 3.5 times of my local money, so it is really important for me.

Can you tell us something about that please? ske7chstckrboyEdit: Viper Skills
To my understanding, the last thing 343 said about Halo Wars 2 and Steam is that they had no plans to put it on Steam. But maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong on this one.
I'm pretty sure someone at Microsoft said it's going on steam, I'll find the quote
Awesome, thank you.
TYRELL zx wrote:
Myrmidont wrote:
I'm more surprised that people expected an entire expansion to be given away to them.
yeah this makes me unhappy

i wanted new campaign missions
i wanted flood
i wanted firefight

i didnt want to have to pay twice for it. I bought the ultimate edition expecting to get all DLC yet get no new campaign? this makes me feel messed up real bad
This. If the campaign is the size of the original then it makes sense for them to charge. Other RTS games have season passes for maps and new leaders but a new expansion always means more money. Plus, the Season Pass fine print has always said that it only lasts for 6 months after launch.
its not 'given to you' if you pay for the season pass, thats called buying it

they should have mentioned it off the bat it was going to cost money and let us pre-order that instead of wasting money on the season pass
It was not clear, it was missleading.

In other Industries companies would have to pay billions for making mistakes like this and decepting customers in what to expect and not to expect from a product.
Misleading isn't the word I would use at all. They literally changed the description of the season pass and it's contents after people already bought it. It's a bait and switch, plain and simple.
So guys would you rather have just 2 new missions like said before for Season Pass along leaders and not hearing this news for a big Expansion that most of us were hoping for:Banished Campaign and return of Flood?
To clarify, I'm just annoyed at the fact that the Season Pass was marketed on false implications.

I'm not talking about perceived value of items within said Season Pass, as I even defended it's worth in another thread, citing the inclusion of HW:DE as a big plus for myself personally, but I am talking about the fact that advertising it originally as a 'Campaign Expansion', which Awakening the Nightmare is, and then changing it afterwards to 'Mini-campaign' or 'extra missions', which is now 'Operation Spearbreaker', is shady.

I'm also not talking about 'lies', I'm talking about perception and implication.
When you say 'Expansion', you think The Witcher 3: Blood & Wine, you think Farcry 3: Blood Dragon, you think Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare, and the marketing team at 343 will know damn well that the implication of that term is enough to make people more likely to buy the Season Pass. Now, whether it was originally part of the Pass and got segmented as it grew, or if it really was created post launch (leaning towards the former), it doesn't change the fact that this was a really bad move on their part from a PR standpoint.

I'll judge the expansion's worth on launch, of course. It could very well justify the extra $20, and I am happy with what the Season Pass (even in its current state) offers, but that wont stop me from calling out dodgy marketing practices, and I'll be paying far more attention to this kind of thing in future.
TYRELL zx wrote:
Myrmidont wrote:
I'm more surprised that people expected an entire expansion to be given away to them.
yeah this makes me unhappy

i wanted new campaign missions
i wanted flood
i wanted firefight

i didnt want to have to pay twice for it. I bought the ultimate edition expecting to get all DLC yet get no new campaign? this makes me feel messed up real bad
This. If the campaign is the size of the original then it makes sense for them to charge. Other RTS games have season passes for maps and new leaders but a new expansion always means more money. Plus, the Season Pass fine print has always said that it only lasts for 6 months after launch.
its not 'given to you' if you pay for the season pass, thats called buying it

they should have mentioned it off the bat it was going to cost money and let us pre-order that instead of wasting money on the season pass
It was not clear, it was missleading.

In other Industries companies would have to pay billions for making mistakes like this and decepting customers in what to expect and not to expect from a product.
Misleading isn't the word I would use at all. They literally changed the description of the season pass and it's contents after people already bought it. It's a bait and switch, plain and simple.
I use words like missleading to have a certain conversation level.

Any other expressions or words or things I would like to do to express what I think of this shameless act of deception and intransparent communication would for sure lead to a permanent ban and jailtime.
So guys would you rather have just 2 new missions like said before for Season Pass along leaders and not hearing this news for a big Expansion that most of us were hoping for:Banished Campaign and return of Flood?
i'd rather they have said 'hey to get the main campaign dlc you'll have to pay extra. Here you can pre-order that now instead of wasting time on a misleading season pass'
So to continue the discussion here, I will play devil's advocate on this one:

I understand where everyone is coming from, I really do. But the way I see it, this isn't a scam. This isn't a shameless "money grab." They were open with what would be included in the Season Pass. They never said all content. It never said all post-launch content would be included. We are getting our leaders, we are getting the mini-campaign.

Not only that, but the expansion more than covers the cost. That's a lot of content. I may be biased as a Halo freak but that's a lot of stuff for a decent price.

I just felt the game was a completed game when it launched (minus the technical difficulties, still wish those would be fully attended to). This feels like a legitimate expansion. A full campaign, a brand new survival mode, 2 new Banished leaders, and Blur cutscnes to back it all up? It's fantastic.

Now, before anyone comes at me saying I am biased because I'm a Monitor and I HAVE to like/support 343 in everything they do, this is false. I was quite open with my discontent at Halo 5 when it launched with barebones content (if it could even be referred to as such). This is all just my opinion. They didn't mislead us.
I think most people assume that when they pay extra for the season pass, they will be getting whatever future DLC rolls out. That's the implied promise. Why else would you buy a season pass? Why would you pay extra at launch for SOME of the unknown future content? 343 just shot themselves in the foot with this one. Gonna be tough to sell season passes for future 343 games.
It would be cool if they had a physical copy of the expansion too, although I doubt it.

IMO, $20 isn't something to get too riled up about. Especially when the content that this game will give you for $100 is far more than any EA sewerfest game like Star Wars Battlefront and its uber-expensive Season Pass, or just multiplayer maps and cosmetic garbage like you'd get in a CoD game.

It's like ODST all over again. It'll be well worth it, guys.
H8TRFFC wrote:
To clarify, I'm just annoyed at the fact that the Season Pass was marketed on false implications.

I'm not talking about perceived value of items within said Season Pass, as I even defended it's worth in another thread, citing the inclusion of HW:DE as a big plus for myself personally, but I am talking about the fact that advertising it originally as a 'Campaign Expansion', which Awakening the Nightmare is, and then changing it afterwards to 'Mini-campaign' or 'extra missions', which is now 'Operation Spearbreaker', is shady.I'm also not talking about 'lies', I'm talking about perception and implication.
When you say 'Expansion', you think The Witcher 3: Blood & Wine, you think Farcry 3: Blood Dragon, you think Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare, and the marketing team at 343 will know damn well that the implication of that term is enough to make people more likely to buy the Season Pass. Now, whether it was originally part of the Pass and got segmented as it grew, or if it really was created post launch (leaning towards the former), it doesn't change the fact that this was a really bad move on their part from a PR standpoint.

I'll judge the expansion's worth on launch, of course. It could very well justify the extra $20, and I am happy with what the Season Pass (even in its current state) offers, but that wont stop me from calling out dodgy marketing practices, and I'll be paying far more attention to this kind of thing in future.
Nice post!

It is exactly what everybody is talking about.

And shady is just such a good expression for that whats going on. It is not really okay or correct in any case that aftwr paying for a Season Pass you again have to pay for real post launch content. It is completely illusioning the customer of what he is really buying.

Again and I repeat myself: In any other industry this would be that expensive.

Isnt here any rich kid whos dad is a lawyer in a top law firm? Decepting Customers of what they are really buying and that from multi-billion sales companies Microsoft/ 343 Industries. That would be a case. In the end they would have to offer the DLC for free and refund Season Pass buyers.
H8TRFFC wrote:
To clarify, I'm just annoyed at the fact that the Season Pass was marketed on false implications.

I'm not talking about perceived value of items within said Season Pass, as I even defended it's worth in another thread, citing the inclusion of HW:DE as a big plus for myself personally, but I am talking about the fact that advertising it originally as a 'Campaign Expansion', which Awakening the Nightmare is, and then changing it afterwards to 'Mini-campaign' or 'extra missions', which is now 'Operation Spearbreaker', is shady.I'm also not talking about 'lies', I'm talking about perception and implication.
When you say 'Expansion', you think The Witcher 3: Blood & Wine, you think Farcry 3: Blood Dragon, you think Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare, and the marketing team at 343 will know damn well that the implication of that term is enough to make people more likely to buy the Season Pass. Now, whether it was originally part of the Pass and got segmented as it grew, or if it really was created post launch (leaning towards the former), it doesn't change the fact that this was a really bad move on their part from a PR standpoint.

I'll judge the expansion's worth on launch, of course. It could very well justify the extra $20, and I am happy with what the Season Pass (even in its current state) offers, but that wont stop me from calling out dodgy marketing practices, and I'll be paying far more attention to this kind of thing in future.
I'll agree that this has been poorly communicated, although I would debate whether or not its actively misleading. A lot of this comes to interpretation and implication as you said. "Campaign expansion" to me implies an extension to an existing campaign. ATN according to the blog post is " a brand-new full expansion coming to Halo Wars 2, featuring a new campaign, two new multiplayer leaders, two new multiplayer maps, and Terminus Firefight" so its a expansion that includes a new campaign, rather than a campaign expansion.

It sounds dumb, but I'm leaning towards poor communication and being vague rather than them actively trying to bait and switch. They definetly should have said something about additional content coming that wouldn't have been covered by the pass or called the pass a Leader Pass instead of a Season Pass or something
So guys would you rather have just 2 new missions like said before for Season Pass along leaders and not hearing this news for a big Expansion that most of us were hoping for:Banished Campaign and return of Flood?
They should have been more specific about what exactly is included with the Season Pass. When I preordered the Ultimate Edition, the description for single player content was

"a new campaign expansion with exclusive missions"

that sounds a hell of a lot more than two missions. Imagine spending $30, thinking you're going to get a legitimate campaign expansion, only to find out you're actually only getting two missions and the expansion you thought you were gonna get will cost you an extra $20. You'd probably feel a little cheated.

Again, 343 should have been more descriptive with the Season Pass. "A new campaign expansion with exclusive missions" can literally be anything from 2 add on missions to a whole expansion featuring a Banished campaign and the Flood. I can't really blame people for thinking the promise of a new campaign expansion with exclusive missions would be more than just two missions.

343 could have avoided this mess by simply being specific about what exactly was included in the Season Pass.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. ...
  9. 59