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Balance changes: example mockup

OP SirFoxUwU

This is a rough example mockup of changes wanted by the community, based on comments here and within discords.

Air:
  • Banshees now cost 250 supplies and 100 power.
  • Hornets now cost 250 supplies and 100 power.
  • Vultures now take 5 seconds longer to build.
  • Banshee damage reduced by 5% to ground units.
  • Hornet damage reduced by 5% to ground units.
  • Vampire/Hawk units added.
Hawk/Vampires:
  • Supply cost: 250.
  • Power cost: 100.
  • Can attack all units but deals -80% damage to all units except air.
  • These units deal 40% bonus damage to air units.
  • Missile based attacks.
  • Health is equal to 120% of Hornets and Banshees.
Wolverines/Reavers:
  • Wolverine rate of fire increased by 70%.
  • Reavers rate of fire increased by 30%.
  • Wolverine power cost removed.
  • Reaver power cost removed.
  • Wolverine supply cost increased by 50.
  • Reaver supply cost increased by 50.
  • Wolverine health increased by 40%.
  • Reaver health increased by 30%.
Glassing beam:
  • Damage reduced by 30%.
  • Cost increased by 10%.
  • Duration increased by 20%.
Misc:
  • Frozen status effect can now only trigger every 10 seconds per unit/building.
  • Frozen effect could previously stack on bases and units too quickly in succession preventing any counter,
These are awful.

T2 core air would become even more useless. It’s already a waste of resources to build core air at T2 (outside of some 3v3 maps), so increasing resource cost that much would ensure they are never used at T2 and only used in late-late game.

AA air units are a mistake and shouldn’t exist with the balance style HW has. I thought we learned this from HW1.

70% increase to rate of fire. LOL. And here I thought your suggestions to air units were bad enough.

It’s arguable that Beam III needs to be toned down slightly, but those blanket nerfs are laughable.

Freezing is one of the few things Serina has going for her. She already needs help and nerfing her one trick would be a mistake.
evils wrote:
These are awful.

T2 core air would become even more useless. It’s already a waste of resources to build core air at T2 (outside of some 3v3 maps), so increasing resource cost that much would ensure they are never used at T2 and only used in late-late game.

AA air units are a mistake and shouldn’t exist with the balance style HW has. I thought we learned this from HW1.

70% increase to rate of fire. LOL. And here I thought your suggestions to air units were bad enough.

It’s arguable that Beam III needs to be toned down slightly, but those blanket nerfs are laughable.

Freezing is one of the few things Serina has going for her. She already needs help and nerfing her one trick would be a mistake.
Hi, rather than just replying badly, please try to give constructive feedback on each point and why you disagree with them.

So ignoring the addition of new units, how about:

Banshee/Hornet health increased by 10%.
Banshee/Hornet Cost changed to 250 supplies/100 power.
Wolverine rate of fire and damage increase of 30%.
Reaver rate of fire and damage increase of 20%.
Glassing beam increased cooldown by 30 seconds.
Glassig beam damage increased by 10%.
You can't give air units a 100 power cost and then remove the power cost from AA units unless your goal is for people to never build air units.

Making wolverines shoot faster will make things worse in larger engagements. A higher fire rate will make each missile do less damage, plus its tied to an animation that cant be changed. I have already test this out. Higher fire rate makes things worse. Wolverines really need to shoot slower (~2 seconds between volleys) with maybe a 10% DPS increase. Thats what I found when testing. But I also removed AOE from the unit. Its not needed if the fire rate of wolverines was corrected and made slower. Reavers could be adjusted slightly as well. Its a balancing act between getting the right time to kill, but also not having AA units over fire a single air unit in larger engagements.

If you want to weaken air units make them have less acceleration (similar to HW1), make them do slightly less damage to AA units (maybe 10-15%), and increase their damage vs warthogs/marauders/mantis by 15% and scorpions/wraiths/grizzly by maybe 10%.

People look back at HW1 as a point of reference, but forget that air and AA units were on different tech levels. Allowing a weaker base air unit to exist and have a role. You get both units at the same tech level HW2.
Wow these are way too exaggerated.

If you're getting beat by mass air so much as to suggest these changes, try increasing the speed of your play style.
Wow these are way too exaggerated.

If you're getting beat by mass air so much as to suggest these changes, try increasing the speed of your play style.
I'm not getting beaten often by mass air and have a decent AA playstyle that is considered fast. It's just easily the most complained about thing as the wolverine and reavers don't do much at all. I've seen multiple instances where full AA armies get dominated by air and that's not something that should happen.
SirFoxUwU wrote:
Wow these are way too exaggerated.

If you're getting beat by mass air so much as to suggest these changes, try increasing the speed of your play style.
I'm not getting beaten often by mass air and have a decent AA playstyle that is considered fast. It's just easily the most complained about thing as the wolverine and reavers don't do much at all. I've seen multiple instances where full AA armies get dominated by air and that's not something that should happen.
It should happen if you're smarter with leader powers and if your units have better upgrades and if you're better at moving your units.

Real time strategy games are not deterministic.
SirFoxUwU wrote:
This is a rough example mockup of changes wanted by the community, based on comments here and within discords.

Air:
  • Banshees now cost 250 supplies and 100 power.
  • Hornets now cost 250 supplies and 100 power.
  • Vultures now take 5 seconds longer to build.
  • Banshee damage reduced by 5% to ground units.
  • Hornet damage reduced by 5% to ground units.
  • Vampire/Hawk units added.
Hawk/Vampires:
  • Supply cost: 250.
  • Power cost: 100.
  • Can attack all units but deals -80% damage to all units except air.
  • These units deal 40% bonus damage to air units.
  • Missile based attacks.
  • Health is equal to 120% of Hornets and Banshees.
Wolverines/Reavers:
  • Wolverine rate of fire increased by 70%.
  • Reavers rate of fire increased by 30%.
  • Wolverine power cost removed.
  • Reaver power cost removed.
  • Wolverine supply cost increased by 50.
  • Reaver supply cost increased by 50.
  • Wolverine health increased by 40%.
  • Reaver health increased by 30%.
Glassing beam:
  • Damage reduced by 30%.
  • Cost increased by 10%.
  • Duration increased by 20%.
Misc:
  • Frozen status effect can now only trigger every 10 seconds per unit/building.
  • Frozen effect could previously stack on bases and units too quickly in succession preventing any counter,
I like this alot, but I don't see them adding a new unit.
plus you should throw in a buff for Cyclops, hunters, rangers, sniper and hellbringers to make them actually useful
SirFoxUwU wrote:
Wow these are way too exaggerated.

If you're getting beat by mass air so much as to suggest these changes, try increasing the speed of your play style.
I'm not getting beaten often by mass air and have a decent AA playstyle that is considered fast. It's just easily the most complained about thing as the wolverine and reavers don't do much at all. I've seen multiple instances where full AA armies get dominated by air and that's not something that should happen.
It should happen if you're smarter with leader powers and if your units have better upgrades and if you're better at moving your units.

Real time strategy games are not deterministic.
No they are not, but the raw rock paper scissors balance is dead currently as far as unit counters go for air. Ignoring leader powers, I can build full wolverine and reavers armies and have them simply decimated by vultures or Banshee torpedos. If the core air has no energy cost then the anti-air needs to have its power cost removed to compensate. The biggest issues with AA units atm is that in order to respond to a ball of hornets/vultures/banshees you need to spend double the cost they did in power.
SirFoxUwU wrote:
SirFoxUwU wrote:
Wow these are way too exaggerated.

If you're getting beat by mass air so much as to suggest these changes, try increasing the speed of your play style.
I'm not getting beaten often by mass air and have a decent AA playstyle that is considered fast. It's just easily the most complained about thing as the wolverine and reavers don't do much at all. I've seen multiple instances where full AA armies get dominated by air and that's not something that should happen.
It should happen if you're smarter with leader powers and if your units have better upgrades and if you're better at moving your units.

Real time strategy games are not deterministic.
No they are not, but the raw rock paper scissors balance is dead currently as far as unit counters go for air. Ignoring leader powers, I can build full wolverine and reavers armies and have them simply decimated by vultures or Banshee torpedos. If the core air has no energy cost then the anti-air needs to have its power cost removed to compensate. The biggest issues with AA units atm is that in order to respond to a ball of hornets/vultures/banshees you need to spend double the cost they did in power.
Plus AA does no damage to anything else while Core air does good damage to everything, making the prospect of building them even less valued.
SirFoxUwU wrote:
evils wrote:
These are awful.

T2 core air would become even more useless. It’s already a waste of resources to build core air at T2 (outside of some 3v3 maps), so increasing resource cost that much would ensure they are never used at T2 and only used in late-late game.

AA air units are a mistake and shouldn’t exist with the balance style HW has. I thought we learned this from HW1.

70% increase to rate of fire. LOL. And here I thought your suggestions to air units were bad enough.

It’s arguable that Beam III needs to be toned down slightly, but those blanket nerfs are laughable.

Freezing is one of the few things Serina has going for her. She already needs help and nerfing her one trick would be a mistake.
Hi, rather than just replying badly, please try to give constructive feedback on each point and why you disagree with them.

So ignoring the addition of new units, how about:

Banshee/Hornet health increased by 10%.
Banshee/Hornet Cost changed to 250 supplies/100 power.
Wolverine rate of fire and damage increase of 30%.
Reaver rate of fire and damage increase of 20%.
Glassing beam increased cooldown by 30 seconds.
Glassig beam damage increased by 10%.
1) Ok if their mobility is lower 10-20% I have no problem with that.
2) 100 is over the top but 50 would be fair
3) Don't know but they need more damage maybe some splash damage?
4) Reavers aren't that weak a 5-10 % buff is more than enough.
5-6) Glassing beam... When you play against top players it's not very good about against noob it's destructive but I wouldn't change it.
Shawn96 wrote:
SirFoxUwU wrote:
evils wrote:
These are awful.

T2 core air would become even more useless. It’s already a waste of resources to build core air at T2 (outside of some 3v3 maps), so increasing resource cost that much would ensure they are never used at T2 and only used in late-late game.

AA air units are a mistake and shouldn’t exist with the balance style HW has. I thought we learned this from HW1.

70% increase to rate of fire. LOL. And here I thought your suggestions to air units were bad enough.

It’s arguable that Beam III needs to be toned down slightly, but those blanket nerfs are laughable.

Freezing is one of the few things Serina has going for her. She already needs help and nerfing her one trick would be a mistake.
Hi, rather than just replying badly, please try to give constructive feedback on each point and why you disagree with them.

So ignoring the addition of new units, how about:

Banshee/Hornet health increased by 10%.
Banshee/Hornet Cost changed to 250 supplies/100 power.
Wolverine rate of fire and damage increase of 30%.
Reaver rate of fire and damage increase of 20%.
Glassing beam increased cooldown by 30 seconds.
Glassig beam damage increased by 10%.
1) Ok if their mobility is lower 10-20% I have no problem with that.
2) 100 is over the top but 50 would be fair
3) Don't know but they need more damage maybe some splash damage?
4) Reavers aren't that weak a 5-10 % buff is more than enough.
5-6) Glassing beam... When you play against top players it's not very good about against noob it's destructive but I wouldn't change it.
Your numbers look much better and make more sense.
SirFoxUwU wrote:
SirFoxUwU wrote:
Wow these are way too exaggerated.

If you're getting beat by mass air so much as to suggest these changes, try increasing the speed of your play style.
No they are not, but the raw rock paper scissors balance is dead currently as far as unit counters go for air. Ignoring leader powers, I can build full wolverine and reavers armies and have them simply decimated by vultures or Banshee torpedos. If the core air has no energy cost then the anti-air needs to have its power cost removed to compensate. The biggest issues with AA units atm is that in order to respond to a ball of hornets/vultures/banshees you need to spend double the cost they did in power.
It's not dead if you scout properly, mass wolverines will never be destroyed by Banshee Torpedoes because torpedos only work on OTHER air units, Vultures can only kill wolves if they get a good missile and you don't spread your units.
Mass wolverines cost a lot of yellow and isn't useful against other unit. I am not gonna lie I find reavers ok but wolverines are just bad they don't do splash damage and they target one plane at the time takes like 5 seconds to kill a single plane. Useless unit imo.
100 power is a little ridiculous, like you wouldn't be able to get any units units out, you'd be punished for building core air.

Basically whats going on here is you're reversing power to core units, and removing power from counter units. Making it a struggle bus to win because it'll be too easy to counter anything, youd be punished for building any core unit.