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Balance Discussion 3.0 Scorpion's Revenge

OP THEWALL766

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THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
Wow thanks to everyone who worked on this.
This are great changes and i agree 100%
But i would add to the list that the cooldown of the deci drop and retriever actually starts when the units are killed not when they are dropped.
Thanks again for this great list
Have a nice day guys
We agree 100% about the cooldown being adjusted so that it doesn't start going until after the unit death. Unfortunately that would require a code rework of the power and the devs have a lot of other things they need to work on such as MCC. It would be great but im pretty sure everything that I included was just a number change which is often the path of least resistance in getting a change.
Hey my friend could we add that Anti-air needs to do less damage to air or at least against support units,
maybe we could buff the production speed of AA to compensate. What do you guys think about it? Just curious.
I have a strong Air is not OP persona but ill give you my opinion on why Air will never be truly balanced.

AA suffers from overkill, they fire way too many missiles at 1 target and most of them miss because the first target is eviscerated. Because of that, Air might appear more survivable if the AA isn't targeting the core of the air ball. To compensate for that AA is very resistant to Air damage, and Air itself is very flimsy. Because of this, most high level players do not like using air as a T2 transition because it loses to almost everything, has no survivability, and is crazy expensive per pop (banshees specifically). Unfortunately, reworking the AI for the targeting would be the coding equivalent of moving a mountain so hoping for a fix is out of the question. As long as the overkill exists, air will probably need to remain low health units in order to keep things "fair" more or less. I actually want to reduce the cost of banshees but there are very few ways of buffing air so that it is more usefull at T2 and not abusive at T3. There are many people that have proposed an acceleration buff to wolves, I think that is completely fair. I also have been toying with the idea of making hornets 5 pop and banshees 4 pop and buffing them accordingly so that we worry less about overkill and don't get air units rinsed by LPs, but that is pretty radical and I don't think ill get much support since a lot of people like the aesethic of "Massive armies".

TLDR, balancing air with the current AI is incredibly challenging and there is never a meaningful discussion because it always devolves into "Air is OP" vs "Air is Garbage".
I agree with you 100% and i understand that it isn't an easy task but tbh i would like to see the damage at least turn down a bit against nightingales, engies and shrouds because right now anti air shredd them.
Btw i really like that idead of increasing the pop of banshees and hornets.
Ohh and maybe you could add that anders sentinels need to be 4 pop, because this guys are still ridiculous strong when massed.
THEWALL766 wrote:
Leader Specific - Colony Because Colony isn't considered to be top tier, nerfing his hero shouldn't come without some compensatory buff in order to keep him relevant. This is very tough because his kit doesn't have a lot of things that are safe to buff. I do not want to increase Combat Repair because I already thing it is a great power, and after comparing Hunters Brand to Mac blast at all level, I don't think buffing brand is the answer either. I would love to hear your suggestions but currently, the only think I could think of is AOE buffs or armor buffs to symbionts.
I think making hunters brand hit even when you loose the sight maybe a good buff, other than that maybe we could buff the hp of skitters to make them a bit more viable as a single unit. Just some random thoughts.
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
Wow thanks to everyone who worked on this.
This are great changes and i agree 100%
But i would add to the list that the cooldown of the deci drop and retriever actually starts when the units are killed not when they are dropped.
Thanks again for this great list
Have a nice day guys
We agree 100% about the cooldown being adjusted so that it doesn't start going until after the unit death. Unfortunately that would require a code rework of the power and the devs have a lot of other things they need to work on such as MCC. It would be great but im pretty sure everything that I included was just a number change which is often the path of least resistance in getting a change.
Hey my friend could we add that Anti-air needs to do less damage to air or at least against support units,
maybe we could buff the production speed of AA to compensate. What do you guys think about it? Just curious.
I have a strong Air is not OP persona but ill give you my opinion on why Air will never be truly balanced.

AA suffers from overkill, they fire way too many missiles at 1 target and most of them miss because the first target is eviscerated. Because of that, Air might appear more survivable if the AA isn't targeting the core of the air ball. To compensate for that AA is very resistant to Air damage, and Air itself is very flimsy. Because of this, most high level players do not like using air as a T2 transition because it loses to almost everything, has no survivability, and is crazy expensive per pop (banshees specifically). Unfortunately, reworking the AI for the targeting would be the coding equivalent of moving a mountain so hoping for a fix is out of the question. As long as the overkill exists, air will probably need to remain low health units in order to keep things "fair" more or less. I actually want to reduce the cost of banshees but there are very few ways of buffing air so that it is more usefull at T2 and not abusive at T3. There are many people that have proposed an acceleration buff to wolves, I think that is completely fair. I also have been toying with the idea of making hornets 5 pop and banshees 4 pop and buffing them accordingly so that we worry less about overkill and don't get air units rinsed by LPs, but that is pretty radical and I don't think ill get much support since a lot of people like the aesethic of "Massive armies".

TLDR, balancing air with the current AI is incredibly challenging and there is never a meaningful discussion because it always devolves into "Air is OP" vs "Air is Garbage".
I agree with you 100% and i understand that it isn't an easy task but tbh i would like to see the damage at least turn down a bit against nightingales, engies and shrouds because right now anti air shredd them.
Btw i really like that idead of increasing the pop of banshees and hornets.
Ohh and maybe you could add that anders sentinels need to be 4 pop, because this guys are still ridiculous strong when massed.
Anders Sentinels are actually 4 pop according to the most recent balance notes from Postums. I havnt seen them in combat since so I don't know how they fair now.
Can’t read all of it. Just read the parts of scorpions and wraiths and that’s all I need to hear. They just get shredded and are a bad investment and don’t work with maps that require mobility. Don’t wanna bring up the HW1 talk, but tanks need to get closer to that. They would shred hogs in HW1. Tanks should shred anything T2, except counter vehicle. I’ve seen a tank go down against 4 ghosts. This should not happen, ever. Tanks should wipe mauraders and wraiths should wipe hogs.
THEWALL766 wrote:
BlisterbackRole: Flying Artillery

Right now, the blisterback is at a point where it is combat incompetent in the air and mediocre in the air. Testing showed 4 Blisterbacks lose to 7 hornets with 5 wingman hornets remaining at the end of the fight and 3 Blisterbacks losing to 7 Plasma Torpedo Banshees with 5 Banshees remaining. I’m not sure it this is the intent of the blisterback but right now the air gun is comparable to a slightly beefed of version of the Kodiaks chain gun turret.

Suggestions: The main thing holding the blisterback is its range and its survivability. It actually does very good damage to both ground units and buildings, its just that its range isn’t large enough for it to have the same presence that a Kodiak has. The goal is to have the blisterbacks bring the additional building damage to a fight when you are using an air army, being able to lock down further away from defending troops or turrets will allow them to actually take place in a fight without being immediately killed upon landing. A range closer to that of the Kodiak will make that possible.

Additionally, blisterbacks should receive a nerf to damage on T3 vehicles so that they can’t be used as effectively to turtle. Survivability increases such as the 30% armor buff to Leader Powers, 5-10% additional armor against core air, and maybe even +1 speed will all go along way to seeing use of the Blisterback as an offensive unit.

All the Other StuffThis will basically go over all the other things that people believe are imbalanced in the game. While they are important, changes to T3 would be the “if we had to choose 1 thing”. If you feel like what was said previously was enough to constitute a balance update, by all means, stop reading.

Both FactionsHeroes right now are an integral part of many Leader kits, however, at times, these heroes tend to overperform against units that are supposed to counter them as well as against units far more expensive than them. Because of this, there are a few things that should be looked at

1) Infantry heroes should do less damage to Anti Infantry units. A 5-10% nerf to the "Light Armor" damage type would be useful for keeping Hellbringers or rangers alive a bit longer in the fight to do damage
2) Heroes are abusive when they are placed in garrisons and it would be helpful if they received less of an armor buff, especially when that buff occurs directly in front of someone's base
3) Scouts should have higher armor against hero damage and should do a little bit more damage to all types of heroes, this is more for the Rabbits since it is very tough for the UNSC to deal with vehicle heroes like the Bison, Forge Hog, or Command Mantis. Conversely, Choppers and ghosts do great against vehicle heroes but are weak to infantry heroes, despite having an overwhelming cost disparity

UNSC - OverallCombat Tech marines still way over perform against core vehicles. Many people feel as if the issue is just as bad as it was before the last season balance. A 25% damage nerf on the CT rocket against Core vehicle would be helpful in allowing Hogs to act as a counter to someone going Marines as their unit. The rocket feels fine with regards to most other interactions. (Urgent)

Gauss Hog is not an upgrade in its current state. The chain gun and the gauss weapon on the hogs both do the same damage against buildings, I have personally tested and timed this. The upgrade also seems to do minimal help against non-gauss hogs or other core vehicles. Buffs to the way the weapon handles other core vehicles as well as squad infantry would be good for the unit. (Medium)

Cyclops still largely underperform as AV units and would need a buff to better perform their role once the Combat Tech Marine becomes unable to handle core vehicles. Small buffs to health and DPS will probably be enough. (medium)
CT is absurdly overpowered, and it still vastly overperforms against vehicles. I lost 7 tier 2 Warthogs to around 12 tier 2 CT Marines today, and they only had one Nightingale for support. And yes, I both kited them and rammed once they balled up. It didn't make a difference because the rockets still deal too much damage against vehicles.
Neckhammer wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
BlisterbackRole: Flying Artillery

Right now, the blisterback is at a point where it is combat incompetent in the air and mediocre in the air. Testing showed 4 Blisterbacks lose to 7 hornets with 5 wingman hornets remaining at the end of the fight and 3 Blisterbacks losing to 7 Plasma Torpedo Banshees with 5 Banshees remaining. I’m not sure it this is the intent of the blisterback but right now the air gun is comparable to a slightly beefed of version of the Kodiaks chain gun turret.

Suggestions: The main thing holding the blisterback is its range and its survivability. It actually does very good damage to both ground units and buildings, its just that its range isn’t large enough for it to have the same presence that a Kodiak has. The goal is to have the blisterbacks bring the additional building damage to a fight when you are using an air army, being able to lock down further away from defending troops or turrets will allow them to actually take place in a fight without being immediately killed upon landing. A range closer to that of the Kodiak will make that possible.

Additionally, blisterbacks should receive a nerf to damage on T3 vehicles so that they can’t be used as effectively to turtle. Survivability increases such as the 30% armor buff to Leader Powers, 5-10% additional armor against core air, and maybe even +1 speed will all go along way to seeing use of the Blisterback as an offensive unit.

All the Other StuffThis will basically go over all the other things that people believe are imbalanced in the game. While they are important, changes to T3 would be the “if we had to choose 1 thing”. If you feel like what was said previously was enough to constitute a balance update, by all means, stop reading.

Both FactionsHeroes right now are an integral part of many Leader kits, however, at times, these heroes tend to overperform against units that are supposed to counter them as well as against units far more expensive than them. Because of this, there are a few things that should be looked at

1) Infantry heroes should do less damage to Anti Infantry units. A 5-10% nerf to the "Light Armor" damage type would be useful for keeping Hellbringers or rangers alive a bit longer in the fight to do damage
2) Heroes are abusive when they are placed in garrisons and it would be helpful if they received less of an armor buff, especially when that buff occurs directly in front of someone's base
3) Scouts should have higher armor against hero damage and should do a little bit more damage to all types of heroes, this is more for the Rabbits since it is very tough for the UNSC to deal with vehicle heroes like the Bison, Forge Hog, or Command Mantis. Conversely, Choppers and ghosts do great against vehicle heroes but are weak to infantry heroes, despite having an overwhelming cost disparity

UNSC - OverallCombat Tech marines still way over perform against core vehicles. Many people feel as if the issue is just as bad as it was before the last season balance. A 25% damage nerf on the CT rocket against Core vehicle would be helpful in allowing Hogs to act as a counter to someone going Marines as their unit. The rocket feels fine with regards to most other interactions. (Urgent)

Gauss Hog is not an upgrade in its current state. The chain gun and the gauss weapon on the hogs both do the same damage against buildings, I have personally tested and timed this. The upgrade also seems to do minimal help against non-gauss hogs or other core vehicles. Buffs to the way the weapon handles other core vehicles as well as squad infantry would be good for the unit. (Medium)

Cyclops still largely underperform as AV units and would need a buff to better perform their role once the Combat Tech Marine becomes unable to handle core vehicles. Small buffs to health and DPS will probably be enough. (medium)
CT is absurdly overpowered, and it still vastly overperforms against vehicles. I lost 7 tier 2 Warthogs to around 12 tier 2 CT Marines today, and they only had one Nightingale for support. And yes, I both kited them and rammed once they balled up. It didn't make a difference because the rockets still deal too much damage against vehicles.
Sounds extreme, do you know if they had lvl 2 or 3 inf upgrades?
Neckhammer wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
BlisterbackRole: Flying Artillery

Right now, the blisterback is at a point where it is combat incompetent in the air and mediocre in the air. Testing showed 4 Blisterbacks lose to 7 hornets with 5 wingman hornets remaining at the end of the fight and 3 Blisterbacks losing to 7 Plasma Torpedo Banshees with 5 Banshees remaining. I’m not sure it this is the intent of the blisterback but right now the air gun is comparable to a slightly beefed of version of the Kodiaks chain gun turret.

Suggestions: The main thing holding the blisterback is its range and its survivability. It actually does very good damage to both ground units and buildings, its just that its range isn’t large enough for it to have the same presence that a Kodiak has. The goal is to have the blisterbacks bring the additional building damage to a fight when you are using an air army, being able to lock down further away from defending troops or turrets will allow them to actually take place in a fight without being immediately killed upon landing. A range closer to that of the Kodiak will make that possible.

Additionally, blisterbacks should receive a nerf to damage on T3 vehicles so that they can’t be used as effectively to turtle. Survivability increases such as the 30% armor buff to Leader Powers, 5-10% additional armor against core air, and maybe even +1 speed will all go along way to seeing use of the Blisterback as an offensive unit.

All the Other StuffThis will basically go over all the other things that people believe are imbalanced in the game. While they are important, changes to T3 would be the “if we had to choose 1 thing”. If you feel like what was said previously was enough to constitute a balance update, by all means, stop reading.

Both FactionsHeroes right now are an integral part of many Leader kits, however, at times, these heroes tend to overperform against units that are supposed to counter them as well as against units far more expensive than them. Because of this, there are a few things that should be looked at

1) Infantry heroes should do less damage to Anti Infantry units. A 5-10% nerf to the "Light Armor" damage type would be useful for keeping Hellbringers or rangers alive a bit longer in the fight to do damage
2) Heroes are abusive when they are placed in garrisons and it would be helpful if they received less of an armor buff, especially when that buff occurs directly in front of someone's base
3) Scouts should have higher armor against hero damage and should do a little bit more damage to all types of heroes, this is more for the Rabbits since it is very tough for the UNSC to deal with vehicle heroes like the Bison, Forge Hog, or Command Mantis. Conversely, Choppers and ghosts do great against vehicle heroes but are weak to infantry heroes, despite having an overwhelming cost disparity

UNSC - OverallCombat Tech marines still way over perform against core vehicles. Many people feel as if the issue is just as bad as it was before the last season balance. A 25% damage nerf on the CT rocket against Core vehicle would be helpful in allowing Hogs to act as a counter to someone going Marines as their unit. The rocket feels fine with regards to most other interactions. (Urgent)

Gauss Hog is not an upgrade in its current state. The chain gun and the gauss weapon on the hogs both do the same damage against buildings, I have personally tested and timed this. The upgrade also seems to do minimal help against non-gauss hogs or other core vehicles. Buffs to the way the weapon handles other core vehicles as well as squad infantry would be good for the unit. (Medium)

Cyclops still largely underperform as AV units and would need a buff to better perform their role once the Combat Tech Marine becomes unable to handle core vehicles. Small buffs to health and DPS will probably be enough. (medium)
CT is absurdly overpowered, and it still vastly overperforms against vehicles. I lost 7 tier 2 Warthogs to around 12 tier 2 CT Marines today, and they only had one Nightingale for support. And yes, I both kited them and rammed once they balled up. It didn't make a difference because the rockets still deal too much damage against vehicles.
Sounds extreme, do you know if they had lvl 2 or 3 inf upgrades?
That's actually not extreme; this is currently the case with CT marines. I've seen a couple of tests and it is mind blowing. Even with hogs dancing around. Same upgrade level. Full pop CT marines actually don't really lose to full pop warthogs which is tragic since marines are extremely cheap and are supposed to be weak vs non-scout vehicles.
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
Wow thanks to everyone who worked on this.
This are great changes and i agree 100%
But i would add to the list that the cooldown of the deci drop and retriever actually starts when the units are killed not when they are dropped.
Thanks again for this great list
Have a nice day guys
I have a strong Air is not OP persona but ill give you my opinion on why Air will never be truly balanced.

AA suffers from overkill, they fire way too many missiles at 1 target and most of them miss because the first target is eviscerated. Because of that, Air might appear more survivable if the AA isn't targeting the core of the air ball. To compensate for that AA is very resistant to Air damage, and Air itself is very flimsy. Because of this, most high level players do not like using air as a T2 transition because it loses to almost everything, has no survivability, and is crazy expensive per pop (banshees specifically). Unfortunately, reworking the AI for the targeting would be the coding equivalent of moving a mountain so hoping for a fix is out of the question. As long as the overkill exists, air will probably need to remain low health units in order to keep things "fair" more or less. I actually want to reduce the cost of banshees but there are very few ways of buffing air so that it is more usefull at T2 and not abusive at T3. There are many people that have proposed an acceleration buff to wolves, I think that is completely fair. I also have been toying with the idea of making hornets 5 pop and banshees 4 pop and buffing them accordingly so that we worry less about overkill and don't get air units rinsed by LPs, but that is pretty radical and I don't think ill get much support since a lot of people like the aesethic of "Massive armies".

TLDR, balancing air with the current AI is incredibly challenging and there is never a meaningful discussion because it always devolves into "Air is OP" vs "Air is Garbage".
An other workaround to the overkill could be to increase splash damage of AA units and turrets and lower damage. Small air armies could still get killed with core inf and heros, designated AA to counter Condor, RS and mass air espacially late game. Love the Pop increase idea tho.

What about Nakas (?) suggestion regarding Anders and Serina siege? Change the siege effect so that you need to upgrade each turret first. Might be too much effort, but would slow down the turtling and make it more costly.
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
Wow thanks to everyone who worked on this.
This are great changes and i agree 100%
But i would add to the list that the cooldown of the deci drop and retriever actually starts when the units are killed not when they are dropped.
Thanks again for this great list
Have a nice day guys
I have a strong Air is not OP persona but ill give you my opinion on why Air will never be truly balanced.

AA suffers from overkill, they fire way too many missiles at 1 target and most of them miss because the first target is eviscerated. Because of that, Air might appear more survivable if the AA isn't targeting the core of the air ball. To compensate for that AA is very resistant to Air damage, and Air itself is very flimsy. Because of this, most high level players do not like using air as a T2 transition because it loses to almost everything, has no survivability, and is crazy expensive per pop (banshees specifically). Unfortunately, reworking the AI for the targeting would be the coding equivalent of moving a mountain so hoping for a fix is out of the question. As long as the overkill exists, air will probably need to remain low health units in order to keep things "fair" more or less. I actually want to reduce the cost of banshees but there are very few ways of buffing air so that it is more usefull at T2 and not abusive at T3. There are many people that have proposed an acceleration buff to wolves, I think that is completely fair. I also have been toying with the idea of making hornets 5 pop and banshees 4 pop and buffing them accordingly so that we worry less about overkill and don't get air units rinsed by LPs, but that is pretty radical and I don't think ill get much support since a lot of people like the aesethic of "Massive armies".

TLDR, balancing air with the current AI is incredibly challenging and there is never a meaningful discussion because it always devolves into "Air is OP" vs "Air is Garbage".
An other workaround to the overkill could be to increase splash damage of AA units and turrets and lower damage. Small air armies could still get killed with core inf and heros, designated AA to counter Condor, RS and mass air espacially late game. Love the Pop increase idea tho.

What about Nakas (?) suggestion regarding Anders and Serina siege? Change the siege effect so that you need to upgrade each turret first. Might be too much effort, but would slow down the turtling and make it more costly.
There was actually a lot of talk back in the day about lowering damage and increasing splash and ultimately, it was determined that it would be too hard to balance the Condor and Retriever so the idea was semi abandoned. This was also during peak "Air is OP" fever which was season 8-9 so there was a lot of changes to wolves and reavers in that time that made them even stronger to "Mass Air". Its a tough interaction that doesn't have an easy solution and it might be a focus for the next round of balance suggestions after T3 is reworked.

There have been a couple of suggestions that ive heard to Specifically Anders siege. My two favorite are:
1) make it so that only siege turrets gain the Sentinels or Ice so that you cant spawn 80 sentinels for every artillery barrage. This is my favorite but it is the most radical
2) half the amount of sentinels that are spawned from beacon/synergy and nerf how effective Kodiak chill is. Also good but less radical

I want to wait to see how the buffs to T3 affect siege before I make any more suggestions but those are where we are right now.
THEWALL766 wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
AcE Hisoka wrote:
Wow thanks to everyone who worked on this.
This are great changes and i agree 100%
But i would add to the list that the cooldown of the deci drop and retriever actually starts when the units are killed not when they are dropped.
Thanks again for this great list
Have a nice day guys
I thought it could be done via the different armor types, but I actually dont know which air units have the same. It would be a big change for sure, but I think one is needed. Right now you cant transition to air after getting t2 in most scenarios but are forced to do it late game. With hopefully relevant t3 units this might change in the coming seasons either directly or indirectly.

I understand that these are your suggestions for the next patch but since I dont know if and how they will get implemented this is another idea to change the meta of spamming air late game. I think increasing pop could work similarly good but would be rather radical too.

tbh I would be happy if just half of your suggestions would be adapted. And there is still hope that some code fixes will be made after the mcc is relaunched
THEWALL766 wrote:
Leader Specific - ShipmasterNerfing ship will be difficult because he has a kit that requires a lot of expertise to use. However, many top players feel he is too strong.

Spirit Support is often regarded as the best unit drop in the game and the veterency on the ranger should be reduced from 3 to 2 as well as a power increase of 200 so that the power is more expensive that the cost of the units being dropped.

Nerfs to glassing beam will be an indirect nerf to shipmaster since it is his only offensive leader power.
Those two things I agree might put ship around where he belongs. That vet three ranger is godly and often changes the tide of battle especially when the drops get stacked. Glassing beam in general is a bit too powerful and the game would benefit from a small damage reduction to that thing.
Compensation for Colony could be a slight buff to the skitterer health buff when attached to units. Would also jive well with the section of Colony being nerfed (IE early game health of the hero). Buffing vehicle symbiotes would be cool and all, but you'd have to make it insanely more powerful to make it picked before engi swarm, then brand or goliaths, then vet or teleport, then host or repair.

As far as vultures go I think they also need a slight speed buff, like a +1 movement speed value buff. That's the biggest complaint I hear with them right with how flimsy they are, it takes them eons to get anywhere.
I've always thought that my Hunters were better without the Assault Beam upgrade, but is that actually true? if so, by what margin.
In regards to tanks I think nerfing the canister shell and plasma shot should be considered versus Anti-vehicle units(cyclops and hunters), I'm not sure of interactios between other tier 3 tanks vs A-V but I believe it does a lot of damage to its counter for a special ability. Also overall damage and survival of cyclops seem to be an issue vs it's counter. As for hunters I can't quite say if they need to be improved but I do know cyclops need some kind of help.

Serina should have less overall chill effects for most of her units or reduction in stacking effects or the freeze effect does not last as long or units frozen are damaged less from shatter effects. Any of these may help or a mix of them like reducing overall chill affecting unit speed and time frozen. Has anyone mentioned what common problems arise when facing her? I just think her ability to impede your army can be troubling at times or combo her abilities with another can be devastating.
I hope I dont get hate for this, but HW2 is about spamming T2 units.

People can say "hur dur counter units" But if I build Banshees and hunters nonstop all game good luck destroying my base with anti infantry and anti air.

T3 units need to be buffed big time. I very rarely see them, I only see them used as meat shields to protect T2 units (which do the real damage lmao). Exceptions are obviously sgt Forge and such.
I hope I dont get hate for this, but HW2 is about spamming T2 units.

People can say "hur dur counter units" But if I build Banshees and hunters nonstop all game good luck destroying my base with anti infantry and anti air.

T3 units need to be buffed big time. I very rarely see them, I only see them used as meat shields to protect T2 units (which do the real damage lmao). Exceptions are obviously sgt Forge and such.
The counter to Hunter-Banshees isn't pure counter units. It's something more like straight up core infantry or air. 120 pop banshees/hornets will beat 60 pop banshees 60 pop hunters every time (Or any split ratio like that, as core infantry/air > hunters), as would full pop grunts/marines. The hunters actually slow down the banshee swarm considerably unless you split them, for which you'd only have to deal with a fraction of the units at a time anyways so....
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
Leader Specific - Colony Because Colony isn't considered to be top tier, nerfing his hero shouldn't come without some compensatory buff in order to keep him relevant. This is very tough because his kit doesn't have a lot of things that are safe to buff. I do not want to increase Combat Repair because I already thing it is a great power, and after comparing Hunters Brand to Mac blast at all level, I don't think buffing brand is the answer either. I would love to hear your suggestions but currently, the only think I could think of is AOE buffs or armor buffs to symbionts.
I think making hunters brand hit even when you loose the sight maybe a good buff, other than that maybe we could buff the hp of skitters to make them a bit more viable as a single unit. Just some random thoughts.
I think this is less of a buff and more of a bug fix, Hunter's Brand is the only leader power I've seen that goes on cooldown and takes the money if line of sight is broken to the target area before it fires. It has been a point of much frustration for me when I use it but due to a unit moving while moving up a hill where vision is harder to get or dying while at the front of my force causes me to lose that vision for a split second and I lose my power and my money.
AcE Hisoka wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
Leader Specific - Colony Because Colony isn't considered to be top tier, nerfing his hero shouldn't come without some compensatory buff in order to keep him relevant. This is very tough because his kit doesn't have a lot of things that are safe to buff. I do not want to increase Combat Repair because I already thing it is a great power, and after comparing Hunters Brand to Mac blast at all level, I don't think buffing brand is the answer either. I would love to hear your suggestions but currently, the only think I could think of is AOE buffs or armor buffs to symbionts.
I think making hunters brand hit even when you loose the sight maybe a good buff, other than that maybe we could buff the hp of skitters to make them a bit more viable as a single unit. Just some random thoughts.
I think this is less of a buff and more of a bug fix, Hunter's Brand is the only leader power I've seen that goes on cooldown and takes the money if line of sight is broken to the target area before it fires. It has been a point of much frustration for me when I use it but due to a unit moving while moving up a hill where vision is harder to get or dying while at the front of my force causes me to lose that vision for a split second and I lose my power and my money.
As a colony main, trust me, I feel your pain. I scream every time it happens. Its been brought up but is unfortunately a code fix, I don't know how feasible it is to fix. No one has stepped up as the "glitch" keeper like I do for the balance. I don't know if that means its assumed that I will compile those also, so stay tuned if there is a "Bug Discussion" post in the future.
I've always thought that my Hunters were better without the Assault Beam upgrade, but is that actually true? if so, by what margin.
I don't have numbers to back up that its a "downgrade" but there is less splash from the weapon after Assault beam is added. The loss of splash doesn't feel like its worth it even with the addition of Line AOE. There is also a very underwhelming change in DPS that many people feel is too low for a T3 700 power upgrade.
THEWALL766 wrote:
I've always thought that my Hunters were better without the Assault Beam upgrade, but is that actually true? if so, by what margin.
I don't have numbers to back up that its a "downgrade" but there is less splash from the weapon after Assault beam is added. The loss of splash doesn't feel like its worth it even with the addition of Line AOE. There is also a very underwhelming change in DPS that many people feel is too low for a T3 700 power upgrade.
I feel the upgrade is worth it nonetheless just because attacks never miss.
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