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Balance Patch Discussion 11/10

OP DC Longshot

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Didn't hit Vori hard enough. I want to see that -Yoink- bottom-tier.
The good:
Original Spartans got a buff. Scouts viable in T1 vs rush units. Vultures can break bases again. Gauss isn't a downgrade vs buildings anymore. Colossus and T3 vehicles in general got a buff. Armory/we council cheaper. Marauders nerfed (we'll see if it's enough). Boundless Siphon slightly nerfed. Cannon Fodder can pick up resources now.

The bad:
Anti-air did not need a buff. The AoE buff might help fix the focus fire issue but they definitely didn't need a damage buff as well. The buff to mac blast might have been too much. Suicide grunts were already incredibly effective; I'm worried UNSC might not have any opening against them. Pavium also wasn't hit hard enough; his mines come back way to quick and can be dropped right on an army to wipe it.

The ugly:
The nerf to Voridus wasn't nearly enough. His mines still last a minute and a half. Damage was reduced only 15%. The slow being reduced is a start but I doubt it'll be enough. It seems like it will still melt vehicles, especially tanks. There was nothing on how his hero unit can drench a base in goo. I just think the goo is too effective for something so prevalent in a match.
Didn't hit Vori hard enough. I want to see that -Yoink- bottom-tier.
I'm afraid he'll still be broken. Not as much as before, but still far above all other leaders. I would rather have him nerfed to the ground to give the other 15 leaders a chance, and then slowly brought back up to match the others. Kind of like YapYap.
Voridus was nerfed enough. That's a large part of his play that was nerfed. Remember his units are forever fragile since he doesn't get the minus 40% reduction from the engineer shield in the first place.

I'm really disappointed that there was no jackrabbit buff in someway and the buff to scout vehicles (Choppers/Ghosts) as well as suicide grunts seems like it might push out all play from Unsc.
I love playing Johnson and now he's gonna be a powerhouse. His Manti were really good because of the Tier 2 Vehicle buffs a while back and now they're cheaper. Counter units were nerfed and now AA is stronger, so he can make an army of Manti supported by like 4 Wolverines and absolutely steamroll anything. His Hero is easier to field now, Vultures are stronger, and the Colossus has the range of an ICBM. I'm so ready for the Johnson meta
AA buffs 🙄 oh well, hopefully less people will have issues
AA buffs 🙄 oh well, hopefully less people will have issues
I assume that they actually tested some situations and deemed it necessary based on how the Devs expect the interaction to be. Hopefully it wasn't a buff based purely on complaining.
AA buffs 🙄 oh well, hopefully less people will have issues
Ah you're just in a mood because you didn't post the patch notes first ;))))))))))
I agree with most of these changes, but, boy, do I ever question some of them.

I'm glad to see Banished scouts getting a much needed buff, but I don't understand why JR's weren't touched. They're among the least cost effective units and get slaughtered by core infantry/most heroes.

I also dont belive Pavium was hit hard enough. I welcome these changes to him, but his late game will still be overwhelmingly strong. As for Voridus, I agree with everything listed, hopefully these changes will put him in check, but we'll see.

I'm still seriously questioning the Suicide Grunt buff. I'm already able to hold off/eliminate any early infantry with a handful of Suicide Grunts. And later into the game, TP + SG's is disgustingly effective.

The AA buffs also feel unnecessary. I would much rather AA no longer naturally focus fire air units. This would help AA fight against larger masses of air. I don't know about this one, we'll have to see how this plays out.

Overall, it's looking like UNSC won't stand much of a chance in the Banished match up (in the early game), but will be on a level playing field once T2 is reached.
EiTeNeR wrote:
AA buffs 🙄 oh well, hopefully less people will have issues
I assume that they actually tested some situations and deemed it necessary based on how the Devs expect the interaction to be. Hopefully it wasn't a buff based purely on complaining.
I'm pretty sure they tested the 300% buff to the Forgehog and deemed that necessary too. That doesn't exactly reassure me.

I think their data showed air winning a lot of engagements. However, I think that's because a lot of players don't understand how to combat it, rather than the units being inherently OP. The likely result is that air will rarely get used in competitive games.
The good:
Original Spartans got a buff. Scouts viable in T1 vs rush units. Vultures can break bases again. Gauss isn't a downgrade vs buildings anymore. Colossus and T3 vehicles in general got a buff. Armory/we council cheaper. Marauders nerfed (we'll see if it's enough). Boundless Siphon slightly nerfed. Cannon Fodder can pick up resources now.

The bad:
Anti-air did not need a buff. The AoE buff might help fix the focus fire issue but they definitely didn't need a damage buff as well. The buff to mac blast might have been too much. Suicide grunts were already incredibly effective; I'm worried UNSC might not have any opening against them. Pavium also wasn't hit hard enough; his mines come back way to quick and can be dropped right on an army to wipe it.

The ugly:
The nerf to Voridus wasn't nearly enough. His mines still last a minute and a half. Damage was reduced only 15%. The slow being reduced is a start but I doubt it'll be enough. It seems like it will still melt vehicles, especially tanks. There was nothing on how his hero unit can drench a base in goo. I just think the goo is too effective for something so prevalent in a match.
Isn't gauss still a downgrade vs Infantry/cyclops/hunters?
Also I am not convinced that these buffs will help regular Scorpions. Wraiths and Grizzlies are better but it could still be almost pointless to build reg Scorpions
We will see if this is enough to bring this trash meta in line. Worried it's not enough but I'm keeping an open mind. I really like the rest of the changes, though.
I agree with most of these changes, but, boy, do I ever question some of them.

I'm glad to see Banished scouts getting a much needed buff, but I don't understand why JR's weren't touched. They're among the least cost effective units and get slaughtered by core infantry/most heroes.

I also dont belive Pavium was hit hard enough. I welcome these changes to him, but his late game will still be overwhelmingly strong. As for Voridus, I agree with everything listed, hopefully these changes will put him in check, but we'll see.

I'm still seriously questioning the Suicide Grunt buff. I'm already able to hold off/eliminate any early infantry with a handful of Suicide Grunts. And later into the game, TP + SG's is disgustingly effective.

The AA buffs also feel unnecessary. I would much rather AA no longer naturally focus fire air units. This would help AA fight against larger masses of air. I don't know about this one, we'll have to see how this plays out.

Overall, it's looking like UNSC won't stand much of a chance in the Banished match up (in the early game), but will be on a level playing field once T2 is reached.
This.

With JR being in a bad spot and now suis are getting another buff (like seriously? They're the most cost effective unit in the game do they need buffing over and over again?)

What is UNSC supposed to do? Any rush that is fought off by infantry has no chance of taking back the map, destroying mini-bases, let alone hitting someone's base. Essentially, there is no punishment for a failed Banished rush.

Second, the AA buff seems insane given how they already melt air. I hope this wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to the "nerf air!" cries we've been seeing.

Voridus wasn't hit hard enough. Cataclysm and Maelstrom remain the same in cost and cooldown. So... any time its up the player is going to be able to use them. Voridus can press Y, run around and do more damage than any hero could ever aspire to without even activating Cataclysm. Not including invigorating frenzy.

The gel damage was nerfed. That might ease up some early game pressure. Still no response for him once he gets rolling.

Marauder nerf was welcome and needed.

The anti-building units were left untouched which is annoying to see but they are manageable to an extent.

All in all I'm both happy and unhappy with these patch notes. High level play is so, so, so horrendous right now lol.
Siege turrets should scale with amount not only a slight base increase of cost and their range is still kinda ridiculous.
Buffing AA and Warthogs? Good bye air, good bye Banished!
Where is the love for elite-grunts? Since they buffed Marines and Brute-Grunts(only the mine tho) i feel like they are underachieving even with invi.
Dont know about Mantis felt like they performed quite well in my encounters.
Hero units in garrison are still insane. Ever tried to get pavium or HC out of a garrison? Its impossible!
Also why a limit to rank at all? Just let us grind to lvl over 9000!
Otherwise thank you for YapYap, Shroud and Council changes much appreciated!
(Im aware of posting that twice but dont know how or if i can remove it from the other thread since this seems to be the right place to discuss)
I agree with most of these changes, but, boy, do I ever question some of them.

I'm glad to see Banished scouts getting a much needed buff, but I don't understand why JR's weren't touched. They're among the least cost effective units and get slaughtered by core infantry/most heroes.

I also dont belive Pavium was hit hard enough. I welcome these changes to him, but his late game will still be overwhelmingly strong. As for Voridus, I agree with everything listed, hopefully these changes will put him in check, but we'll see.

I'm still seriously questioning the Suicide Grunt buff. I'm already able to hold off/eliminate any early infantry with a handful of Suicide Grunts. And later into the game, TP + SG's is disgustingly effective.

The AA buffs also feel unnecessary. I would much rather AA no longer naturally focus fire air units. This would help AA fight against larger masses of air. I don't know about this one, we'll have to see how this plays out.

Overall, it's looking like UNSC won't stand much of a chance in the Banished match up (in the early game), but will be on a level playing field once T2 is reached.
This.

With JR being in a bad spot and now suis are getting another buff (like seriously? They're the most cost effective unit in the game do they need buffing over and over again?)

What is UNSC supposed to do? Any rush that is fought off by infantry has no chance of taking back the map, destroying mini-bases, let alone hitting someone's base. Essentially, there is no punishment for a failed Banished rush.

Second, the AA buff seems insane given how they already melt air. I hope this wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to the "nerf air!" cries we've been seeing.

Voridus wasn't hit hard enough. Cataclysm and Maelstrom remain the same in cost and cooldown. So... any time its up the player is going to be able to use them. Voridus can press Y, run around and do more damage than any hero could ever aspire to without even activating Cataclysm. Not including invigorating frenzy.

The gel damage was nerfed. That might ease up some early game pressure. Still no response for him once he gets rolling.

Marauder nerf was welcome and needed.

The anti-building units were left untouched which is annoying to see but they are manageable to an extent.

All in all I'm both happy and unhappy with these patch notes. High level play is so, so, so horrendous right now lol.
I'm trying my best to remain optimistic and open minded, but I agree with pretty well everything you're saying.

JR's are laughable right now. I don't want JR Wars 2 again, but they need help... like, a lot of help.

As someone above stated, this nerf to AA may be in response to core air winning so many games. But, this data may not be accurate due to some players not knowing how to correctly fight air (nor trying to throw shade, sorry). Nonetheless, these AA buffs feel very unnecessary. We'll see how this plays our, but it's looking like air may only be effective SUPER late game during a tech switch. I fear it will have zero usefulness mid game. Core air is already among the most expensive units; this adjustment will massively lower their cost effectiveness.

I'm trying to be optimistic about Vord, but I fear you're right. Cata and Maelstrom will still be disgustingly strong. I also feel the duration of infusion wasn't hit hard enough... 1:30 (Mine II) is still too long, I don't care what anyone says. His early game hopefully won't be as overwhelming, but he will probably remain the best/strongest leader (sigh).

I am BUMMED to not see anything about anti-vehicle. They feel so worthless right now, lmao.
Is the balance patch already released?
Colossus in no way needed a buff. They dominate their counters. speaking of counters, Anti Vehicle needs a buff.
Would reinstating the JR's AOE help them be viable as early game units? Or is that still too powerful?
JELLY3EANS wrote:
Is the balance patch already released?
No it isn't, should come next week
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