Forums / Games / Halo Wars Series

Balance Patch Discussion 11/10

OP DC Longshot

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Honestly, the more I think about/read the patch notes the more I'm disappointed.

Rushes will be non-existent because of Suicide buffs.
UNSC is getting pushed into a Warthog sized corner.
Air will be worthless.

Definitely not the patch I hoped for.
They've truly reduced the number of viable units with this patch. AA will render all air useless. UNSC will have to quick tech because they can't win the early game. And because only warthogs got a DPS buff vs buildings they're the only units that will be viable to crack bases. Meanwhile Banished will still have broken Voridus and Pavium, dropping goo and ultra mines on tanks rendering those useless as well. This just seems a prime example of 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
I'm trying to be optimistic, but Breezy's optimism is running out.

That said, I look forward to seeing the full notes and to see if they make any changes.
Honestly, the more I think about/read the patch notes the more I'm disappointed.

Rushes will be non-existent because of Suicide buffs.
UNSC is getting pushed into a Warthog sized corner.
Air will be worthless.

Definitely not the patch I hoped for.
They've truly reduced the number of viable units with this patch. AA will render all air useless. UNSC will have to quick tech because they can't win the early game. And because only warthogs got a DPS buff vs buildings they're the only units that will be viable to crack bases. Meanwhile Banished will still have broken Voridus and Pavium, dropping goo and ultra mines on tanks rendering those useless as well. This just seems a prime example of 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
But maybe they can tweak it! It hasn't been done yet! That's the point to this discussion, and I really want this patch to be adjusted. That's why I'm so active these days lol
Honestly, the more I think about/read the patch notes the more I'm disappointed.

Rushes will be non-existent because of Suicide buffs.
UNSC is getting pushed into a Warthog sized corner.
Air will be worthless.

Definitely not the patch I hoped for.
They've truly reduced the number of viable units with this patch. AA will render all air useless. UNSC will have to quick tech because they can't win the early game. And because only warthogs got a DPS buff vs buildings they're the only units that will be viable to crack bases. Meanwhile Banished will still have broken Voridus and Pavium, dropping goo and ultra mines on tanks rendering those useless as well. This just seems a prime example of 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
But maybe they can tweak it! It hasn't been done yet! That's the point to this discussion, and I really want this patch to be adjusted. That's why I'm so active these days lol
I'm not so sure they can still tweak it. It's gotta be in certification by now. The point of this thread is mostly to see the community's response to the proposed changes. Hopefully they see the negative reaction and move back on the changes in the following patch.
Honestly, the more I think about/read the patch notes the more I'm disappointed.

Rushes will be non-existent because of Suicide buffs.
UNSC is getting pushed into a Warthog sized corner.
Air will be worthless.

Definitely not the patch I hoped for.
They've truly reduced the number of viable units with this patch. AA will render all air useless. UNSC will have to quick tech because they can't win the early game. And because only warthogs got a DPS buff vs buildings they're the only units that will be viable to crack bases. Meanwhile Banished will still have broken Voridus and Pavium, dropping goo and ultra mines on tanks rendering those useless as well. This just seems a prime example of 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
But maybe they can tweak it! It hasn't been done yet! That's the point to this discussion, and I really want this patch to be adjusted. That's why I'm so active these days lol
I'm not so sure they can still tweak it. It's gotta be in certification by now. The point of this thread is mostly to see the community's response to the proposed changes. Hopefully they see the negative reaction and move back on the changes in the following patch.
Following hotfix lol
They almost have to do something, we have waited this long for a nice patch; I don't want to see Breezy's optimism disintegrate!
I recant my initial statement that the Voridus nerf won't be enough. Instead, I'll take a more patient approach and see how it plays first. The damage nerf AND the slow nerf in conjunction might be enough to actually have some solid counterplay for the gel.

Speaking of counterplay, this brings me to the issue I do still have: Maelstrom and Cataclysm. The nerfs may very well be enough to allow players to last longer against Voridus. But with his late game virtually untouched, I am not so optimistic about the lack of changes made there. Voridus can press Y, walk around, activate cata/invigorating frenzy, and you simply can't fight there. Literally. UNSC has no teleport option to negate that.

I believe that maelstrom and cataclysm need price increases and maelstrom certainly needs a cooldown nerf. Yes, the game should always be balanced according to a 1v1 scenario, but 2's there will still be absolutely no UNSC answer for maelstrom/rain of fire or any other nuke combo. None. You just have to lose your army and there's nothing you can do about it.

UNSC next patch will excel in certain areas but I just don't like something being in the game that an entire faction has no counterplay to. Actually, even some Banished leaders have no way to fight that as they lack teleport.

There's a few things I disagree with but I still like the patch. I'll list what I don't like:

1. Voridus late game virtually unchecked.
2. Jackrabbits untouched, specifically, unbuffed when they need to be. I get why they might be hesitant about this, as Isabel might just start rolling over fools. But even then I don't think so, because Redline/R&D/Time for Heroes all serve to help JR in similar if not better ways in direct confrontations.
3. AA buff. This bugs me because their numbers may very well have shown that air en masse was problematic to a lot of players. My problem is that this is a massive nerf to those who actually built air units before super late game (contrary to what some of you guys say, they do exist). Having 5 or 6 Banshees in your comp alongside Engineers was, a lot of the time, what was needed to tip the scales in mid-game Marauder vs Marauder fights. Now, 1 Reaver or Wolverine can smack those around with ease. That really doesn't make sense cost-wise even if they are hard counters.

There's a few other things but I have to go for now. I will post them later. I am definitely willing to keep an open mind with this patch and in spite of all the negativity, there are a lot of good things in there.
Honestly, the more I think about/read the patch notes the more I'm disappointed.

Rushes will be non-existent because of Suicide buffs.
UNSC is getting pushed into a Warthog sized corner.
Air will be worthless.

Definitely not the patch I hoped for.
They've truly reduced the number of viable units with this patch. AA will render all air useless. UNSC will have to quick tech because they can't win the early game. And because only warthogs got a DPS buff vs buildings they're the only units that will be viable to crack bases. Meanwhile Banished will still have broken Voridus and Pavium, dropping goo and ultra mines on tanks rendering those useless as well. This just seems a prime example of 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
If they left the game the way it was before AtN, the game would be fine. Still, Colony and Decimus needed a few tweaks and a few buffs for yap while fixing a few exploit and not to forget marauders and Jackrabbit buff. This coming patch will destroy the early game for all UNSC except maybe Forge with his Rolling Economy and make all air without a doubt useless. Pavium and Voridus keep looking better and better even with only debuffs.
I recant my initial statement that the Voridus nerf won't be enough. Instead, I'll take a more patient approach and see how it plays first. The damage nerf AND the slow nerf in conjunction might be enough to actually have some solid counterplay for the gel.

Speaking of counterplay, this brings me to the issue I do still have: Maelstrom and Cataclysm. The nerfs may very well be enough to allow players to last longer against Voridus. But with his late game virtually untouched, I am not so optimistic about the lack of changes made there. Voridus can press Y, walk around, activate cata/invigorating frenzy, and you simply can't fight there. Literally. UNSC has no teleport option to negate that.

I believe that maelstrom and cataclysm need price increases and maelstrom certainly needs a cooldown nerf. Yes, the game should always be balanced according to a 1v1 scenario, but 2's there will still be absolutely no UNSC answer for maelstrom/rain of fire or any other nuke combo. None. You just have to lose your army and there's nothing you can do about it.

UNSC next patch will excel in certain areas but I just don't like something being in the game that an entire faction has no counterplay to. Actually, even some Banished leaders have no way to fight that as they lack teleport.

There's a few things I disagree with but I still like the patch. I'll list what I don't like:

1. Voridus late game virtually unchecked.
2. Jackrabbits untouched, specifically, unbuffed when they need to be. I get why they might be hesitant about this, as Isabel might just start rolling over fools. But even then I don't think so, because Redline/R&D/Time for Heroes all serve to help JR in similar if not better ways in direct confrontations.
3. AA buff. This bugs me because their numbers may very well have shown that air en masse was problematic to a lot of players. My problem is that this is a massive nerf to those who actually built air units before super late game (contrary to what some of you guys say, they do exist). Having 5 or 6 Banshees in your comp alongside Engineers was, a lot of the time, what was needed to tip the scales in mid-game Marauder vs Marauder fights. Now, 1 Reaver or Wolverine can smack those around with ease. That really doesn't make sense cost-wise even if they are hard counters.

There's a few other things but I have to go for now. I will post them later. I am definitely willing to keep an open mind with this patch and in spite of all the negativity, there are a lot of good things in there.
That is very well said, and I agree with 100% what you said. I only started going on waypoint because of Voridus. Beside him and Pav, this game was actually in a good place.
I can't help but think all the people saying air will be "useless" are overreacting... They'll still have their massive maneuverability advantage.
I can't help but think all the people saying air will be "useless" are overreacting... They'll still have their massive maneuverability advantage.
To which they'll be shot down shortly.

The previous interaction between AA and Air was fine.
I can't help but think all the people saying air will be "useless" are overreacting... They'll still have their massive maneuverability advantage.
To which they'll be shot down shortly.

The previous interaction between AA and Air was fine.
Manueverability is hardly an advantage. As soon as their advantage leads to them flying over AA, they will disappear.
I can't help but think all the people saying air will be "useless" are overreacting... They'll still have their massive maneuverability advantage.
Going air will now basically be like playing "the floor is lava" where every important place to hit is lava. Any army with 4 AA and any base with AA turrets will inflict massive damage to air. There will be no maneuverability advantage because there will be no where to maneuver to. Leaving a handful of wolves in your base with the hold command will render all surprise air attacks useless while you push on with your army.
I can't help but think all the people saying air will be "useless" are overreacting... They'll still have their massive maneuverability advantage.
Going air will now basically be like playing "the floor is lava" where every important place to hit is lava. Any army with 4 AA and any base with AA turrets will inflict massive damage to air. There will be no maneuverability advantage because there will be no where to maneuver to. Leaving a handful of wolves in your base with the hold command will render all surprise air attacks useless while you push on with your army.
Against normal engagements the AA buff shouldn't be too big of an issue. Might be good if it was only for 2v2 or 3v3 but I think the main issue is against late game Pavium where his mega turrets wreck your ground units so air becomes the only viable option. Now that AA gets a buff it is even harder to break it. Hopefully the Vulture buff will help UNSC break it but if they die before getting the Phoenix missile off then you are just wasting resources.
AA buffs 🙄 oh well, hopefully less people will have issues
Ah you're just in a mood because you didn't post the patch notes first ;))))))))))

AA is just fine ATM the buff will make them just more effective I don't think they will be broken. I played a guy last night who had full pop banshees, I had already scouted so I had 3 AA Turrets and built about 12 reavers and some locust. Was playing as Shippy so I sent my cloaked honor guard to the outskirts of his base and waited. He attacked my base lost everything then I teleported to his base. GG.
H4RR0 wrote:
I can't help but think all the people saying air will be "useless" are overreacting... They'll still have their massive maneuverability advantage.
Going air will now basically be like playing "the floor is lava" where every important place to hit is lava. Any army with 4 AA and any base with AA turrets will inflict massive damage to air. There will be no maneuverability advantage because there will be no where to maneuver to. Leaving a handful of wolves in your base with the hold command will render all surprise air attacks useless while you push on with your army.
Against normal engagements the AA buff shouldn't be too big of an issue. Might be good if it was only for 2v2 or 3v3 but I think the main issue is against late game Pavium where his mega turrets wreck your ground units so air becomes the only viable option. Now that AA gets a buff it is even harder to break it. Hopefully the Vulture buff will help UNSC break it but if they die before getting the Phoenix missile off then you are just wasting resources.
IDK about you but air was already wrecked by AA and to buff them seems to make air hopeless. Air is just not worth building, unless you are decimus, as they are what I call "Canon Fodder of the sky". They have little health and do good to structured only when massed. The way I see it, they need to buff air if you buff AA but thats not practical and is counter productive.
Looking over the patch list again, anyone else notice a lack of nerfs for Pavium? His RoF was a good place to start but he still has plenty of incredibly strong things in his kit that should probably be adjusted.

  • His ultra mines are basically an army wipe that comes back really fast. They need longer trigger and cool down times at least.
  • His leader is also about as strong as Chosen but with a crazy Y ability. I like the idea of the target designator in theory, but in practice it's just so much more effective than what any of the 14 previous leaders have.
  • Burnout is the best eco power in the game but I'm not sure what to do about it.
  • Pavium's stand shouldn't last that long. 10 seconds would probably be fine, enough to negate powers like Eradication or Inferno.
  • Mega turrets are fine damage wise but should start at a higher cost.
  • Lich is the one thing that should be buffed. Higher DPS and cost, maybe health too since it goes down so easily.
Looking over the patch list again, anyone else notice a lack of nerfs for Pavium? His RoF was a good place to start but he still has plenty of incredibly strong things in his kit that should probably be adjusted.

  • His ultra mines are basically an army wipe that comes back really fast. They need longer trigger and cool down times at least.
  • His leader is also about as strong as Chosen but with a crazy Y ability. I like the idea of the target designator in theory, but in practice it's just so much more effective than what any of the 14 previous leaders have.
  • Burnout is the best eco power in the game but I'm not sure what to do about it.
  • Pavium's stand shouldn't last that long. 10 seconds would probably be fine, enough to negate powers like Eradication or Inferno.
  • Mega turrets are fine damage wise but should start at a higher cost.
  • Lich is the one thing that should be buffed. Higher DPS and cost, maybe health too since it goes down so easily.
Been staying out of this thread since I am apparently in the minority on a different topic, however, I agree with this post. Pavium needs a little more attention than the RoF nerf. I mentioned when he first came out how ridiculous his ultra mines are... the really need attention.. they can wipe entire armies, especially if people think air is going to be too fragile now. Pavium burnout transition to thick hide marauders was also ridiculous. So, he has two nukes to go along with his awesome economy... (this isn't even talking about shielded bases with paviums stand and mega turrets). Pavium is a tough nut to crack, especially as UNSC.
I hope we receive some kind of update on the patch preview tomorrow; with a lot of things that has been going on for more than a while now, it's just not fun to play online right now. Even on team war someone did an exploit. I just really want this game to become fun again.
I hope we receive some kind of update on the patch preview tomorrow; with a lot of things that has been going on for more than a while now, it's just not fun to play online right now. Even on team war someone did an exploit. I just really want this game to become fun again.
I slowed down myself and played SWKOTOR for a bit. I know they will do a good job with the game eventually.
I hope we receive some kind of update on the patch preview tomorrow; with a lot of things that has been going on for more than a while now, it's just not fun to play online right now. Even on team war someone did an exploit. I just really want this game to become fun again.
I slowed down myself and played SWKOTOR for a bit. I know they will do a good job with the game eventually.
Same. My friends and I are mostly just playing Fortnight now. The current state of the game is unplayable. The most recent exploit feels worse than the Forgehog, and even without it Voridus and Pavium are still running around mostly unchecked. Time will tell how long it lasts.
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