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Balance Patch Feedback Thread - 8/13/2020

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I am curious about how these changes affect Terminus Firefight. In particular it doesn't feel like the Vulture Nerfs did much to those waves being the bane of most of my runs despite a heavy reliance on wolverines or reavers.

Meanwhile, some of the nerfs seem to harm leaders which are already not very viable for Firefight. Voridus especially.

And while that is probably beyond the scope of current support I would love to see some leader powers and passives adjusted specifically for the mode. For instance, Voridus' Combat Spoils is useless in Firefight since there are no enemy buildings. Perhaps it could apply to enemy vehicles and aircraft instead?
Veterancy passives (and Jerome's Field Promotion power) don't seem to be as beneficial with veterancy bonus rounds and crates, and the enemy units rarely seem to gain veterancy either so Yapyaps Guilt Trip also seems fairly weak. Perhaps allow units to gain additional veterancy levels like blitz cards?
Raid passives don't do much since there is nothing to capture and infantry movement speed doesn't come into play much beyond the first few rounds (Shipmaster's does have some good additional perks but I'm not sure how effective they are). Perhaps capture speed could be replaced with attack range?
For me as a cutter main make odsts a mainline unit. They still are crushed by anti inf and vehicles so i think they could be balanced rather easily if cutter could produce them out of his bases. AA buff as well.
Speaking of the AA issue I realized its also kinda a problem stemming from how it breaks the base rock-paper-scissors concept. Infantry is supposed to counter air, after all, but that only actually applies to the core infantry trained from the main building. Out of all the base infantry units trained in the barracks or raid camps, elite rangers are the only specialized infantry that can even attack air, while all vehicles besides deployed Kodiaks have weak to moderate anti-air weapons.

Core infantry was more powerful in HW 1 before they were moved over to the main building, probably mainly because of the focus on needing them to capture power nodes and control towers. There were also way more garrison objects on the maps to help using them defensively.
Of course, that game had its own issues with spamming units to win, but at least it seemed to offer more variety in *which* units you would focus research on and spam instead of just air units.
air needs to be nerfed all the way across the board the game is air based battle tanks get destroyed by air wolverines arent fast enough to handle air if you wanna win just go air or rush that is all the game consist of now
I miss Vampires! Bring them back!! Woo! And Cobras too!! Woo!!
I wish arbiter had some more useful leader powers.
As an Arby main. I agree. Get rid of those silly blasts and give us an OP glassing beam! Stasis is cool, in the sense only the Arby has mass stasis. The blast is a three step upgrade, and so is CoR, and I feel like every game I have to make a choice which one to dump points into. Elite drop is good, but we really need an offensive power, even if it’s available late in the wheel. Last night I played a game where my teammate Yap and I would use a mass stasis and ‘Don’t shoot’ leader power back to back.

im sure our opponents were chucking their controllers against the wall. 😂 😂 😂
Hi there, i am thankful that you guys finally started to balance halo wars 2. But the most urgent change has yet to be made. I am refering to the mass banshee/hornets exploit. Because they cost no power it is way too easy for playing to go mass air. Meanwhile the counter units (wolverines and reavers) cost a ridiculous amount of power: Reaver is 210 power. So while i build reavers to counter the air of my opponent, he is all his tech upgrades but i get none because all my power went into reavers. So make air units cost power too so that its fair. I'd say atleast 90 power for banshee and atleast 110 power for hornets because right now about 70% of all players only do air.
Another problem the game tutorial teaches us that infantry is strunger then air units but in practise its clearly false. So to make the tutorial correct, the grunts and marines needs to get a major damage increase against air units.
Nirual86 wrote:
Speaking of the AA issue I realized its also kinda a problem stemming from how it breaks the base rock-paper-scissors concept. Infantry is supposed to counter air, after all, but that only actually applies to the core infantry trained from the main building. Out of all the base infantry units trained in the barracks or raid camps, elite rangers are the only specialized infantry that can even attack air, while all vehicles besides deployed Kodiaks have weak to moderate anti-air weapons.

Core infantry was more powerful in HW 1 before they were moved over to the main building, probably mainly because of the focus on needing them to capture power nodes and control towers. There were also way more garrison objects on the maps to help using them defensively.
Of course, that game had its own issues with spamming units to win, but at least it seemed to offer more variety in *which* units you would focus research on and spam instead of just air units.
But infantry doesn't counter air, it gets smashed everytime. Its the tutorial that lies also its air that needs nerf and not the AA. Because its already way cheaper to build a mass hornet/banshee army because it costs 0 power.... Talk about unfair, reavers cost more power then supplies to build.
Hi im big into hw2 but cant help but feel we are missing some vital leaders
Didact-would allow for a whole new race and building types as well as exclusive troops
Gravemind-(same as didact)
Cortana-chief as a hero and guardian super unit
Tartarus-im not sure about him but i thought he could be a cool leader
Buck-could have virgil and alpha-nine
Other ideas:
Arbiter should have classic scarab,dr halsey?,customized leaders,noble team,buggers?
Anyway thx for reading lemme know what you think
The Didact, Cortana, and tartarus don't fit the area, all the leaders are either from the first HW2, or are characters set on the Ark, but I do agree with the gravemind, the fact that it isn't a thing is really sad, players have been able to fully mod him in, so I don't see why they haven't added him in, outside of just not wanting to
So i kind of agree but there is a few issues. First at the end of HW2 anders meets a guardian sent by cortana and i dont think timeline should matter as forge is dead and they cant be used in campaign anyway :)
Timeline doesn't matter, the fact is that they aren't in the first or second one, as the rest are at least on the ark
Johnson? Shipmaster?
Johnson was killed on the Ark, and the shipmaster is in the Halo Wars 2 campaign, he's the shipmaster of the Enduring Conviction, the Banished flagship
The most confusing commander has to be yapyap, but i really REALLY want to see the self proclaimed grunt god in halo 5 or some future halo campaign.
- anti air, and anti vehicle need a buff. Elite rangers need buff
-vordius hero needs a speed boost.
-Leader points need to be gained faster.
-captain cutter should have ODST instead of marines.
-watch towers need a buff
-should add a feature to be able to come back to current multiplayer game if game crashes or lags.
-should add a feature for players to play ranked matches only when they reach a certain rank, so they have an idea how to play.
-disruption bomb for unsc would be nice to stop glassing beams.
-3v3 blitz ranked be added.
- this is a crazy idea just wondering what you guys think. Have a option for multiplayer we’re you could join a match and fill in for someone that resigned for 2v2 or 3v3 ranked and start we re they left off. If that person wins they get more rank percentage then usual.
Or at least have an ai take over the conrrol of the player that left instead of having all his stuff destroyed causing you to lose a game that you shouldve won
I have all dlc comanders, but because i purchased most with another profile, i am not getting challenges for most commanders on this profil. Very annoying. I can still play all leaders/commanders but would be nice to get challenges for all of them too.
Please can you make anti-air units (i.e., Wolverines and Reavers) actually useful? I've played this game since launch and nearly every game I play Wolverines and Reavers get destroyed very easily, even against air units making them pointless. Please increase the damage output of Wolverines and Reavers against air units because at the moment the air units in this game are overpowered. The game must become more balanced.
the glassing beam may seem overpowered but in my opinion its one of the only things that can save banished from tech 1/ tech 2 spams be cause everytime i get hellbringer rushed as banished i can barley stop it without glassing and the glassing beam moves at the same pace as your army so as long as you keep moving you should dodge it
Hi there, this is going to come across as really sad but bare with me...

When the UK went into COVID lockdown in March, I was heavily into playing Halo Wars 2. I particually loved A.I. skirmishes as I'm intrigued by how the A.I. will utilise each leaders' units & abilities.
So much so that I started conducting tournaments with a scoring system to entertain myself during lockdown. I played hundreds of games, with every consievable combination of A.I. team in 3v3 lobbies. Every leader in the lobby was unique (no duplicates) I would play 6 rounds with the same lobby of leaders (a round for me to play as each leader) and every leader in every round (besides the leader I play as) would be awarded points based-off the end-game results.

I could go into the detail about the point system and the math behind it (I'll elaborate fully if this post recieves interest) but basically it worked well after some trial & error and the results were often close, balanced and fit what was to be expected.

It was exciting, and I ended up completeing 3 tournaments across hundreds of hours of gameplay.

With my reults from the tournaments and experience witnessing and playing as different leaders in many combinations of scenarios - I can happily say I agree with a lot of the patch choices, but I was suprised by a few things that I'll address below along with additions:

UNSC Leaders

Jerome
  • The Omega Team power is a wonderful addition to Halo Wars 2 but the Spartan team is significatly weaker and less effective then other Hero units in the game. The sword-weilding spartan will always run at the enemy to his death because the sword does little damage and so he spends most his time chasing after enemies rather then killing any. I understand you didn't want to make the team overpowered, but currently they are slightly dissapointing and problematic with the rail-gun spartan surviving last in the majority of encounters.
Forge
  • 'Grizzly tanks' are by far the most problematic unit to Halo Wars 2 and I am suprised a small nerf was not in the patch notes. There are little-to-no units that the Grizzly tank is ineffective against. Even aerial units such as banshee's are easily combatted by Grizzlys due to the tanks firepower and the Banshee's low health. Vultures were the only practical counter-unit to the Grizzly tank. I have seen an army of hunters loose to 3 veteran Grizzly tanks many-a-time. For this reason, Forge would always take 2nd place in my A.I. tournament results, because he has a special unit that can combat almost everything effectively.
Isabel
  • The power 'Ghost in the Machine' is often devastating and extremely hard to combat. I figured Isabelle is weak early game because it balances her heavy-hitting end game.
(A.I. have an intruguing grasp on the power. You'll often find your units are released by the ability deep behind enemy-lines and far from where they were first 'Ghosted' making them hard to retrieve.)

Cutter
(This leader would often come next-to-last in the tournaments and I believe that is simply because humans utilise the leader powers completely differently to A.I. as humans spam orbital drop units to reinforce attacks. A.I. use powerful strikes to finish-off weaker combatants)

Kisano
  • The most effective A.I. leader that often placed 1st in the tournaments, due to her choice of multiple powers that effect large areas of the map for prolonged periods of time. I hope her 'Hellcharge' buff doesn't make her overpowered.
Johnson
  • Bunker changes: Multiple bunkers could already be placed quite rapidly onto the battlefield. (I know because Johnson is my favourite leader to play as) So I don't understand why the timer has been reduced significantly.
  • Colossus: A fun addition, very slow but is compensated by its viewing range. However it only takes a couple of air-units to overwhelm this slow-moving and slow-firing Golliath - making retreat impossible and sustained attacks unlikely unless backed-up by a full population army making it less effective then a average tank in many scenarios. I would increase the already significant cost but also add 15% health, as Johnson cannot provide the same vehicle back-up as other leaders.
Voridus
(Unanimously, the worst leader for A.I. to play as. I believe understanding of how Voridus's leader powers can be used effectively, is not in the A.I. programming. The patch will continue his legacy of being last place in A.I. tournaments)

Pavium
  • His Hero unit (besides Forge & Colony) is the most effective leader unit with a cannon that causes area-of-effect damage and is effective on all types of units. Increasing the hero units ability seems dangerous.
Colony
  • Unanimously this leaders Hero Unit is the the most overpowered addition to the game. Once the unit starts gaining experience and promotions to veterancy, then it only needs to be placed in one of the maps garrison spots and the unit becomes close to invincible. Within a garrison, a fully veteran Colony hero unit can take on two Scarabs and win. A fleet of Vultures can loose to a garriosoned standard Colony hero unit. An army of the overpowered anti-infantry 'Grizzly Tank' units would loose to a garrisoned veteran Colony hero unit.
  • 5% is far too low for a health reduction.
I could win a game against Legendary A.I. with just that one Colony hero unit.

Banished Units

  • Wraith: I have never seen a Wraith counter its own counter units. I found it to be a very standard unit and believe a large reduction of 20% would render the Wraith to be inefficient.
That's the end of my list. Thank you if read it all the way to the end.
I do have all my tournament results from each individual match written into a pocket book if anyone is interested in how any particular leader performs as an A.I.
I've not touched Halo Wars 2 for a couple of months after playing it vigourously at the start of lockdown, so I look forward to seeing the results of a new tournament with the latest patch that I'll start tonight! <3
Wrath0me wrote:
Why the -Yoink- ar banshies still so god damn OP compaired to UNSC AA units? Everybody knows you can ssp air units and they kill everything.
Air needs to cost power been saying it since day 1. Takes the whole "strategy" out of an RTS with the constant air spam. Since they have the mobility and AA units are way underpowered, they should cost 300 power.
300???? For one CORE air unit is absolutely not acceptable
Wrath0me wrote:
Why the -Yoink- ar banshies still so god damn OP compaired to UNSC AA units? Everybody knows you can ssp air units and they kill everything.
Air needs to cost power been saying it since day 1. Takes the whole "strategy" out of an RTS with the constant air spam. Since they have the mobility and AA units are way underpowered, they should cost 300 power.
300???? For one CORE air unit is absolutely not acceptable
I'd rather air become useless than suffer under this -Yoink- meta where all you need to do is Decimus banshees and you insta-win
I am just happy the game is supported still! I hope more content comes as well like new maps! Maybe even some more campaign love. Btw I have all campaign objectives/optional etc. done but dont have the a lot extra achievement unlocked
I posted this on an older thread but seeing as this is a newer thread im hoping someone from 343 can see this and help me.
1. What is the issue? The game keeps crashing.

2. What platform are you playing on?
CPU = AMD Ryzen 7 3700x 8-core Processor
GPU = XFX RX 5600 XT
RAM = 32GB DDR4
Windows = Windows 10 Home. version 2004. 64-bit Operating system
OS Build = 19041.508
Powershell codes = KB4576945 Update NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM 10/11/2020 12:00:00 AM
KB4561600 Security Update 8/8/2020 12:00:00 AM
KB4570334 Security Update 8/8/2020 12:00:00 AM
KB4577266 Security Update 10/11/2020 12:00:00 AM
KB4571756 Update 10/11/2020 12:00:00 AM

3. What is your Gamertag? MrBrokeComputer
4. What region are you playing from? North America
Hi there, this is going to come across as really sad but bare with me...

When the UK went into COVID lockdown in March, I was heavily into playing Halo Wars 2. I particually loved A.I. skirmishes as I'm intrigued by how the A.I. will utilise each leaders' units & abilities.
So much so that I started conducting tournaments with a scoring system to entertain myself during lockdown. I played hundreds of games, with every consievable combination of A.I. team in 3v3 lobbies. Every leader in the lobby was unique (no duplicates) I would play 6 rounds with the same lobby of leaders (a round for me to play as each leader) and every leader in every round (besides the leader I play as) would be awarded points based-off the end-game results.

I could go into the detail about the point system and the math behind it (I'll elaborate fully if this post recieves interest) but basically it worked well after some trial & error and the results were often close, balanced and fit what was to be expected.

It was exciting, and I ended up completeing 3 tournaments across hundreds of hours of gameplay.

With my reults from the tournaments and experience witnessing and playing as different leaders in many combinations of scenarios - I can happily say I agree with a lot of the patch choices, but I was suprised by a few things that I'll address below along with additions:

UNSC LeadersJerome
  • The Omega Team power is a wonderful addition to Halo Wars 2 but the Spartan team is significatly weaker and less effective then other Hero units in the game. The sword-weilding spartan will always run at the enemy to his death because the sword does little damage and so he spends most his time chasing after enemies rather then killing any. I understand you didn't want to make the team overpowered, but currently they are slightly dissapointing and problematic with the rail-gun spartan surviving last in the majority of encounters.
Forge
  • 'Grizzly tanks' are by far the most problematic unit to Halo Wars 2 and I am suprised a small nerf was not in the patch notes. There are little-to-no units that the Grizzly tank is ineffective against. Even aerial units such as banshee's are easily combatted by Grizzlys due to the tanks firepower and the Banshee's low health. Vultures were the only practical counter-unit to the Grizzly tank. I have seen an army of hunters loose to 3 veteran Grizzly tanks many-a-time. For this reason, Forge would always take 2nd place in my A.I. tournament results, because he has a special unit that can combat almost everything effectively.
Isabel
  • The power 'Ghost in the Machine' is often devastating and extremely hard to combat. I figured Isabelle is weak early game because it balances her heavy-hitting end game.
(A.I. have an intruguing grasp on the power. You'll often find your units are released by the ability deep behind enemy-lines and far from where they were first 'Ghosted' making them hard to retrieve.)

Cutter(This leader would often come next-to-last in the tournaments and I believe that is simply because humans utilise the leader powers completely differently to A.I. as humans spam orbital drop units to reinforce attacks. A.I. use powerful strikes to finish-off weaker combatants)Kisano
  • The most effective A.I. leader that often placed 1st in the tournaments, due to her choice of multiple powers that effect large areas of the map for prolonged periods of time. I hope her 'Hellcharge' buff doesn't make her overpowered.
Johnson
  • Bunker changes: Multiple bunkers could already be placed quite rapidly onto the battlefield. (I know because Johnson is my favourite leader to play as) So I don't understand why the timer has been reduced significantly.
  • Colossus: A fun addition, very slow but is compensated by its viewing range. However it only takes a couple of air-units to overwhelm this slow-moving and slow-firing Golliath - making retreat impossible and sustained attacks unlikely unless backed-up by a full population army making it less effective then a average tank in many scenarios. I would increase the already significant cost but also add 15% health, as Johnson cannot provide the same vehicle back-up as other leaders.
Voridus(Unanimously, the worst leader for A.I. to play as. I believe understanding of how Voridus's leader powers can be used effectively, is not in the A.I. programming. The patch will continue his legacy of being last place in A.I. tournaments)Pavium
  • His Hero unit (besides Forge & Colony) is the most effective leader unit with a cannon that causes area-of-effect damage and is effective on all types of units. Increasing the hero units ability seems dangerous.
Colony
  • Unanimously this leaders Hero Unit is the the most overpowered addition to the game. Once the unit starts gaining experience and promotions to veterancy, then it only needs to be placed in one of the maps garrison spots and the unit becomes close to invincible. Within a garrison, a fully veteran Colony hero unit can take on two Scarabs and win. A fleet of Vultures can loose to a garriosoned standard Colony hero unit. An army of the overpowered anti-infantry 'Grizzly Tank' units would loose to a garrisoned veteran Colony hero unit.
  • 5% is far too low for a health reduction.
I could win a game against Legendary A.I. with just that one Colony hero unit.

Banished Units
  • Wraith: I have never seen a Wraith counter its own counter units. I found it to be a very standard unit and believe a large reduction of 20% would render the Wraith to be inefficient.
That's the end of my list. Thank you if read it all the way to the end.
I do have all my tournament results from each individual match written into a pocket book if anyone is interested in how any particular leader performs as an A.I.
I've not touched Halo Wars 2 for a couple of months after playing it vigourously at the start of lockdown, so I look forward to seeing the results of a new tournament with the latest patch that I'll start tonight! <3
Wow this is really cool. Could you explain your methodology some more.

Also check out this video on Halo Wars 2 ai. video
Ok, so I'm going to be a odd one out and say the blatant issue with halo wars 2 that seems to have been here since the beginning (and no its not air spam), its the Connections/Bugs for this game. Just earlier, me and my two other friends tried playing, we que up TOGETHER, and the game puts me and one of them into a 2v2. HOW.

Here's what happened the next four games we tried to play.
The first, we get in, and within id like to say somewhere around 30 seconds into the game my PC gets frozen, unresponsive. I had to press the reset button on my case to restart the computer.
The second, the friend who didn't get into that 2v2, he had his game freeze up. it did a "soft freeze" as we call it. the game was frozen but he could move his camera (one of those if your lucky it will pop back but it will just do it again later, he however was not that lucky and it kicked him back to the matchmaking menu)
The third game, or at least the third try, we tried matchmaking and next thing i know im looking at my dashboard
The fourth game, game took a good 5 minutes to load the map. then it says someone on the enemy team disconnected for a split second, then it says victory. now either the enemy team quit while it was loading, quit immediately, or just never loaded in at all.

Then we proceeded to only match without problems against full 99s and got rushed quicker than i could make my hero the next 2 games and called it quits for today.

Needless to say, we didn't have any fun today. Honestly we are just frustrated at the waste of time and effort to try and play this mess. We love this game, but these problems make it harder to say so.

Also just in case anyone says it. I play on pc, my friends play on the Xbox. I've played on the Xbox since the game came out, but I built the PC I think in august and played halo wars there since.

CPU: Ryzen 9
GPU: RTX 2060
RAM: 16GB DDR4
Storage: SSD

I've had these same problems on Xbox. only difference is that Hard Crashing where the game makes the iconic buzzing sound and kicks you back to your Xbox menu doesn't do the buzzing sound on pc, you'll just meet your dashboard all the sudden, or you'll just freeze and have to force a restart.

i would actually talk about the topic of the balancing, but uh, lets get the game fixed first please.
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