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So I'm glad savior and Aykon played 1v1 because it showed a real issue.... Banshees.... Savior had Aykon 4 bases to two yet because Aykon went banshees he was able to just prolong the game forever... Savior had I believe around or more than 20 reavers rofl. And even if Aykon lost he just pushed out more banshees and used banshee mobility... On top of being Decimus with banshees... It's insane... Banshees need fixing because I've noticed if a player goes banshees unless you blind build reavers to insta shut it down you probably lose or have to play for 10 hours.... Please adjust banshees
Hornets are just as bad my friend
Sir Nade wrote:
So I'm glad savior and Aykon played 1v1 because it showed a real issue.... Banshees.... Savior had Aykon 4 bases to two yet because Aykon went banshees he was able to just prolong the game forever... Savior had I believe around or more than 20 reavers rofl. And even if Aykon lost he just pushed out more banshees and used banshee mobility... On top of being Decimus with banshees... It's insane... Banshees need fixing because I've noticed if a player goes banshees unless you blind build reavers to insta shut it down you probably lose or have to play for 10 hours.... Please adjust banshees
great another person that just complains on here..........im going to tell you what about every one else would say
just scout them when they hit tech 2 building aa isnt a instant win you have to play smart and use aa range to your advantage
if your unsc spam marines and wolverines scout
if banished reavers are very strong but lower on the health department so just surround them with banshees
hornets beat banshees no problem if u have like 5 or more nightingales because they heal like 3 units at once

please dont ever say banshees are a problem because there NOT what there used to be many seasons ago

i cant beleave a champion 10 actually has problems with banshees wow dude u must have beaten up level 30s for 10 hours straight
Sir Nade wrote:
So I'm glad savior and Aykon played 1v1 because it showed a real issue.... Banshees.... Savior had Aykon 4 bases to two yet because Aykon went banshees he was able to just prolong the game forever... Savior had I believe around or more than 20 reavers rofl. And even if Aykon lost he just pushed out more banshees and used banshee mobility... On top of being Decimus with banshees... It's insane... Banshees need fixing because I've noticed if a player goes banshees unless you blind build reavers to insta shut it down you probably lose or have to play for 10 hours.... Please adjust banshees
Banshees/Hornets and
Reavers/Wolverines are balance, However.
The interaction between Anti-Air and Air is so fine that any passive can easily tip the scale in the others favor, just look at the units stats real quick,
Banshee HP 4800 SP 20.5,
Hornet HP 5500 SP 18,
Reaver HP 4625/2500 SP 16,
Wolverine HP 6500 SP 20,
If you look at the unit SP you can quickly notice
Is air cannot outrun Wolverines easily
And if you compare HP you would see Air cannot win in a straight fight against Reavers.

Whats my point?

Well, my point is that Air/AA is balance but as soon as you enter passives into the equation you can quickly see how Different the game plays.
I.E Dec is almost always going Air and Kinsano with Redline 2 is the only leader who can catch up if you did not build AA right away against Dec banshees.

Edit:
Just thought I'd point out that kinsanos Hornets are just as good as Dec Banshees if not stronger
(Because of Redline 2 Passive)
Truthfully, core air feels fine to me. If one allows an opponent to build up to critical mass they become an issue, but that can be said about almost all units... 120 pop of Gauss Hogs is just as hard to fight as 120 pop of Banshees, in my opinion. Even Marauders in larger masses can be difficult to fight.

Anyways, it's very clear you feel Banshees are too strong, but you offer very little.

-why are they too strong?
-how would you adjust them?
-would your adjustments be fair?
-what data/evidence do you have that they are too strong?

These are the types of questions one should be answering when claiming something is unbalanced... not just "please adjust Banshees".

Decimus certainly has access to passives that allow him to have stronger Banshees, but I still don't believe they are too strong in any regard.

Additionally, when massed and upgraded, Hornets are stronger than Banshees.

And lasty, in the game againts Aykon, Saviour forced Aykon to stick with Banshees because of how many Mega Turrets he had on the map. Also, he could have ended that game at any time; he was messing around.

In conclusion, I believe Banshees are fine, and many others agree with me. I hope you're able to form an actual argument to support your claims, rather than just making hollow claims.

Thank you for reading!
Thanks. I have been saying this for months. But, I don't have 'street cred' so I don't get taken seriously. Air is the only thing that can reach critical mass and be generally unstoppable. While a critical mass of guass hogs can be strong, critical mass of air would annihilate it. Same cannot be said about anything against critical mass air.
If you let someone get a critical mass of air that's kind of your own fault. It could have been resolved by scouting, noticing their apex and applying pressure. Air in smaller numbers in early game is easily dealt with, especially banshees without upgrades.
Sir Nade wrote:
So I'm glad savior and Aykon played 1v1 because it showed a real issue.... Banshees.... Savior had Aykon 4 bases to two yet because Aykon went banshees he was able to just prolong the game forever... Savior had I believe around or more than 20 reavers rofl. And even if Aykon lost he just pushed out more banshees and used banshee mobility... On top of being Decimus with banshees... It's insane... Banshees need fixing because I've noticed if a player goes banshees unless you blind build reavers to insta shut it down you probably lose or have to play for 10 hours.... Please adjust banshees
He was trolling because naka and I were casting. He could have ended the game if he wanted to but instead he built nothing but reavers and mega turrets bc decimus can't break it.
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
This. I have nothing to add.
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
Hey, it helps if you scout it out. Ya know so you can counter and do population control. Just a friendly tip
DA Cleric wrote:
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
This. I have nothing to add.
wolverines are faster then air omg
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
Hey, it helps if you scout it out. Ya know so you can counter and do population control. Just a friendly tip
not enough people have the common sense to do that
DA Cleric wrote:
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
This. I have nothing to add.
wolverines are faster then air omg
Not when there are obstacles in the way, or a giant chasm in between the two bases... on flat ground without obstacles... yes, but when you have to drive around a mountain or chasm, no... Most bases on maps have a place where air can pull away to that wolverines have to drive around some major obstacle to get to.
DA Cleric wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
This. I have nothing to add.
wolverines are faster then air omg
Not when there are obstacles in the way, or a giant chasm in between the two bases... on flat ground without obstacles... yes, but when you have to drive around a mountain or chasm, no... Most bases on maps have a place where air can pull away to that wolverines have to drive around some major obstacle to get to.
ah yes, certain units performing better in certain situations depending on micro management and leaving the decision of the battle ultimately up to the player's skill and not any single unit or exploit. What a terrible state for the game.
*sigh* This thread again...
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
I really really don't like this approach to judging the balance of a subset of units. The game isn't designed to be played with no contact between teams until everyone has full population, and that's what your judgment approach assumes. Air is very good, and critical mass of air units is AND SHOULD BE very dominant. However, the game is to be played in phases denoted by tech level, and the only way your opponent can get this amount of air is if you let them. If this is the case, you deserve to lose because you are playing poorly.
*sigh* This thread again...
VENOM ACR wrote:
If I roll into your base with 120 banshees, you will need mass anti air. And since your pop is now mostly anti air, u can do anything really vs a base. Anti air has 1 purpose and that's it. Air is the best all around unit in the game not to mention their speed and ability to fly over any terrain or more over a base. Cast a devastating leader power? Np, they can move instantly. Out attacking a base with a mixed army, I'll fly into yours and demolish it before you get halfway back to your base. Air is too strong vs building. If I build 120 pop banshees, I shouldn't have to build 100 pop of anti air.
I really really don't like this approach to judging the balance of a subset of units. The game isn't designed to be played with no contact between teams until everyone has full population, and that's what your judgment approach assumes. Air is very good, and critical mass of air units is AND SHOULD BE very dominant. However, the game is to be played in phases denoted by tech level, and the only way your opponent can get this amount of air is if you let them. If this is the case, you deserve to lose because you are playing poorly.
I like that air will win games in team games only if it is in critical mass but it is otherwise very manageable. It makes decisions during the midgame that much more important and adds a layer a strategy. Glad I could run into you last night BTW.
THEWALL766 wrote:
VENOM ACR wrote:
I like that air will win games in team games only if it is in critical mass but it is otherwise very manageable. It makes decisions during the midgame that much more important and adds a layer a strategy. Glad I could run into you last night BTW.
Likewise! It's always good to run into a familiar face/GT from the forums, the cryotroop opener of yours pretty much guaranteed us the game, well played!
Sir Nade wrote:
So I'm glad savior and Aykon played 1v1 because it showed a real issue.... Banshees.... Savior had Aykon 4 bases to two yet because Aykon went banshees he was able to just prolong the game forever... Savior had I believe around or more than 20 reavers rofl. And even if Aykon lost he just pushed out more banshees and used banshee mobility... On top of being Decimus with banshees... It's insane... Banshees need fixing because I've noticed if a player goes banshees unless you blind build reavers to insta shut it down you probably lose or have to play for 10 hours.... Please adjust banshees
great another person that just complains on here..........im going to tell you what about every one else would say
just scout them when they hit tech 2 building aa isnt a instant win you have to play smart and use aa range to your advantage
if your unsc spam marines and wolverines scout
if banished reavers are very strong but lower on the health department so just surround them with banshees
hornets beat banshees no problem if u have like 5 or more nightingales because they heal like 3 units at once

please dont ever say banshees are a problem because there NOT what there used to be many seasons ago

i cant beleave a champion 10 actually has problems with banshees wow dude u must have beaten up level 30s for 10 hours straight
I was champ 10, months ago I haven't played much since..... Busy
Truthfully, core air feels fine to me. If one allows an opponent to build up to critical mass they become an issue, but that can be said about almost all units... 120 pop of Gauss Hogs is just as hard to fight as 120 pop of Banshees, in my opinion. Even Marauders in larger masses can be difficult to fight.

Anyways, it's very clear you feel Banshees are too strong, but you offer very little.

-why are they too strong?
-how would you adjust them?
-would your adjustments be fair?
-what data/evidence do you have that they are too strong?

These are the types of questions one should be answering when claiming something is unbalanced... not just "please adjust Banshees".

Decimus certainly has access to passives that allow him to have stronger Banshees, but I still don't believe they are too strong in any regard.

Additionally, when massed and upgraded, Hornets are stronger than Banshees.

And lasty, in the game againts Aykon, Saviour forced Aykon to stick with Banshees because of how many Mega Turrets he had on the map. Also, he could have ended that game at any time; he was messing around.

In conclusion, I believe Banshees are fine, and many others agree with me. I hope you're able to form an actual argument to support your claims, rather than just making hollow claims.

Thank you for reading!
Hornets do not beat Banshees unless they are not upgraded
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