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SWAT 79 wrote:
You seem content with the fact that there are only ever 2 viable UNSC leaders, where as all of the Banished is viable. Had they not nerfed Cutter, you would have Jerome (to an extent), Cutter (kind of but he's not nearly as strong as Banished or Serina/Forge), Serina, and Forge. As of now, they absolutely nerfed Cutter into the ground, making him useless.

If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. There was no reason to nerf Cutter in the current meta, and if they were, there should have been small, slight changes. He is now useless, is that what you wanted? This is not how you balance games.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, because scout units are so OP, Cutter's raid really wasn't as useful early game as it should have been. That's why Banished always had the advantage over him, Choppers/Ghosts for map control, T2, Spam Rangers, profit.
Scout units are not OP anymore lol, yo can have 60 pop of grenade marines and fight off 35 pop of choppers, it's an even fight. Grunts are so crappy and underpowered that Scouts is the only thing you see out of Banished. That doesn't mean they're OP. Overpowered =/= Overused.

All UNSC leaders should be viable just like Banished. It will take time, mainly because there are more UNSC leaders, so there's that. Cutter is not nerfed into the ground, it's just that there are OP leaders breaking the game, just wait til they fix those OP leaders and then you can make a judgement on the nerfs. But as I said before, the nerfs were absolutely justified. ODST still do a ton of damage to non-buildings, it's not like ODST are useless, on the contrary, they're still one of the best drops.
I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
no i did you said he needed them he definitely did not hes useless now.
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
no i did you said he needed them he definitely did not hes useless now.
He needed a nerf. How are you guys so stubborn, that's like saying atriox didn't deserve a nerf to fortifications, that's his theme but it was over the top.

Just wait until the broken leaders get balanced and then make up your mind, because in the current state of the game we can't say what leaders are viable. Nothing besides Forge or Serina (allegedly) is viable.
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
no i did you said he needed them he definitely did not hes useless now.
He needed a nerf. How you guys so stubborn, that's like saying atriox didn't deserve a nerf to fortifications, that's he's theme but it was over the top.

Just wait until the broken leaders get balanced and then make up your mind, because in the current state of the game we can't say what leaders are viable. Nothing besides Forge or Serina (allegedly) is viable.
But thats the thing they dont need a nerf UNSC players just need to be made viable.
Is Cutter even good anymore? I only played against him once so far this season and his infantry got crushed. Hes not as fast anymore and forgehogs speed buff working now seems to actually help him keep up with Cutter infantry. When i think about all the ways i used to lose to Cutter none of it is viable anymore. Was he maybe overnerfed?
I don't see why they had to nerf the infantry speed. Sure it was a bit ridiculous but it's all he brought really. I mean other leaders have solid drops aswell.
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
no i did you said he needed them he definitely did not hes useless now.
He needed a nerf. How are you guys so stubborn, that's like saying atriox didn't deserve a nerf to fortifications, that's his theme but it was over the top.

Just wait until the broken leaders get balanced and then make up your mind, because in the current state of the game we can't say what leaders are viable. Nothing besides Forge or Serina (allegedly) is viable.
Buddy, we're not stubborn, you just don't understand what you're talking about. You main Atriox, a consistent Top Tier leader, if at times OP. When he received his nerfs from being incredibly OP, to just one of the top 3 leaders, you understood it had to be done. When Jerome went from being incredibly OP to a mid tier leader, I understood it. The difference is, this nerf to Cutter is not only extreme, but pointless, as he wasn't a top 5 leader to begin with.

Imagine if Atriox went from being a Top Leader, to a bottom leader... you would be furious. PLUS, Atriox is the easiest leader to dominate with. As a Cutter main, I can tell you that he only plays well if Micro'd correctly, because he doesn't have the luxury of just balling up his forces, dropping leader powers, and running through enemies without worry about his base (because, you know, of the shields and invisibility).

I don't understand why you can't comprehend this. There was no reason to nerf Cutter, and if they did feel compelled, the nerfs did not need to be this dramatic. Now look, we have to either play as banished, Forge, or Serina (who is arguably one of the most OP out right now). After they nerf Forge and Serina (which are both needed), there won't be any viable UNSC options, because they OVER nerfed Cutter and Jerome. This is not how you balance a game. The way they balanced Atriox is the correct methodology, as he is still a top Tier leader, but by no means as ridiculous as he was.

If you can't understand that, then I don't think any of us can help you
SWAT 79 wrote:
SWAT 79 wrote:
...
I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
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JEROME
  • All Inspire effects reduced from 15% damage mitigation and 15% damage buff to 12% each.
Overnerfed - > 3% reduction.

CUTTER
  • Cutter's Raid speed bonuses reduced at both levels from 15%/25% to 12%/20%.
  • ODST demolition charge damage vs buildings reduced by 40%.
Overnerfed -> 3%/5% reduction.
ODST Overnerfed -> 40% reduction against buildings only.

I guess ODST are building killers and now they're useless, it's not like they can stun an army blob and deal a lot of damage (untouched) with the C4.

Yes these are DEFINITELY overnerfs. You guys just opened my eyes. I guess a reasonable nerf is anything between 1% and 2%.
SWAT 79 wrote:
SWAT 79 wrote:
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I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
no i did you said he needed them he definitely did not hes useless now.
He needed a nerf. How are you guys so stubborn, that's like saying atriox didn't deserve a nerf to fortifications, that's his theme but it was over the top.

Just wait until the broken leaders get balanced and then make up your mind, because in the current state of the game we can't say what leaders are viable. Nothing besides Forge or Serina (allegedly) is viable.
Buddy, we're not stubborn, you just don't understand what you're talking about. You main Atriox, a consistent Top Tier leader, if at times OP. When he received his nerfs from being incredibly OP, to just one of the top 3 leaders, you understood it had to be done. When Jerome went from being incredibly OP to a mid tier leader, I understood it. The difference is, this nerf to Cutter is not only extreme, but pointless, as he wasn't a top 5 leader to begin with.

Imagine if Atriox went from being a Top Leader, to a bottom leader... you would be furious. PLUS, Atriox is the easiest leader to dominate with. As a Cutter main, I can tell you that he only plays well if Micro'd correctly, because he doesn't have the luxury of just balling up his forces, dropping leader powers, and running through enemies without worry about his base (because, you know, of the shields and invisibility).

I don't understand why you can't comprehend this. There was no reason to nerf Cutter, and if they did feel compelled, the nerfs did not need to be this dramatic. Now look, we have to either play as banished, Forge, or Serina (who is arguably one of the most OP out right now). After they nerf Forge and Serina (which are both needed), there won't be any viable UNSC options, because they OVER nerfed Cutter and Jerome. This is not how you balance a game. The way they balanced Atriox is the correct methodology, as he is still a top Tier leader, but by no means as ridiculous as he was.

If you can't understand that, then I don't think any of us can help you
Was cutter not the only viable unsc leader before Jerome showed up I'm confused?? Pretty sure he was still a top 5 hero even after Jerome came up Cutters been at the top for a while
SWAT 79 wrote:
SWAT 79 wrote:
...
I'm sorry to say this but you main atriox and wouldn't know the difference but ODST aren't worth it now. Trust us when we say hes bad I wish that wasn't the case. Anders is more viable right now ffs.
You didn't say one word that would contradict anything I've said. So I'm confused about your intention?
Yeah i did? I implied Cutter is now useless? He may aswell be bottom tier your just at a massive disadvantage as him.
I never said he wasn't useless, where did you get that?
...
JEROME
  • All Inspire effects reduced from 15% damage mitigation and 15% damage buff to 12% each.
Overnerfed - > 3% reduction.

CUTTER
  • Cutter's Raid speed bonuses reduced at both levels from 15%/25% to 12%/20%.
  • ODST demolition charge damage vs buildings reduced by 40%.
Overnerfed -> 3%/5% reduction.
ODST Overnerfed -> 40% reduction against buildings only.

I guess ODST are building killers and now they're useless, it's not like they can stun an army blob and deal a lot of damage (untouched) with the C4.

Yes these are DEFINITELY overnerfs. You guys just opened my eyes. I guess a reasonable nerf is anything between 1% and 2%
Cutters raid was previously 15% and 44% now it's 13% and 25%. No way in hell did it need that, the second tier of raid was what made him good. Now he's barely speedy on level 2. You mention ODST drops stunning, that's nice if Banished actually used any infantry past 10 minutes which we all know isn't the case. It's basically Banshee/Reaver/Locust spam so even if you drop them your only hitting Locust/Reaver and more than likely going to get them shredded by Banshees. The only reason they nerfed the damage was because it was good in UNSC vs UNSC match ups, in Banished vs Cutter you had to have the damage otherwise good luck taking bases that's what made him viable he could actually take bases even if they turtled.
Jeromes first nerf was needed, this second one? No. That's just pushed him over the edge.

And to the comment he was a top 5 leader previously maybe so but who were all the others? Oh Banished once again. Honestly it annoys me so much how this game is skewered so favourable to Banished. The only reason you saw Cutter feature quite a lot in the top 100's is because he was the only viable counter to a Banished player. So to skewer your data saying Cutter must be OP as he's in the top 100 is just insane logic, surely if he's the only UNSC player featured in the top 100 regularly that would tell you something about the state of your game given the rest are all Banished. So what does that mean? Cutter the one leader is OP? Or that the rest of the UNSC are steaming dogsh*t. It's pretty evident when most of the top 100 is Banished that if you want to be competitive you either went Cutter or just main Banished.

Like the other guy said, once we get Serina and Forge nerfed no one will play UNSC anymore and if you do your servely handicapping yourself it's probably going to be only Jerome in the future which sucks as Banished are so boring to play as I'm going to be forced onto them.
As a cutter main the most effective (sometimes only) way of breaking a shield stack from a banished player was to drop ODST charges.

With a 40% deduction to this, if there are any other tips out there for breaking it, I'd like to hear it. Tryin to be constructive here...
As a cutter main the most effective (sometimes only) way of breaking a shield stack from a banished player was to drop ODST charges.

With a 40% deduction to this, if there are any other tips out there for breaking it, I'd like to hear it. Tryin to be constructive here...
3-4 vultures drops a shield stack. 9-11 will drop the shield stack and continue on to destroy the base. You might have to build something besides infantry now.
SWAT 79 wrote:
The cutter nerfs were a necessity.

You're mental if you think the C4 charges from ODST should've been kept untouched against buildings. Please be reasonable.

Raid made all the rest of UNSC, except Jerome, useless. It needed a nerf and it's been needing that for seasons now.

The cutter nerfs were not, because ODSTs were so easily counterable and only came up at best, once every 3 minutes. They were absolutely useless against Banished because of shields, and after early game against UNSC they weren't worth much either. Raid did not make UNSC useless, as all of the other leaders maintaned powers that would allow them to win engagements.

The only thing Cutter had going for him was early game map control and hit and run tactics. All of the Banished had advantages over Cutter, and Kinsano and Jerome could also hold their own against him. With Scout vehicles being so OP, Raid wasn't nearly as effective as it could have been. Again, the best Cutters were forced to MICRO, which is something that should be rewarded, not nerfed. This is why Atriox is still one of the stronger leaders despite the season to season nerfs, they were all minor and he can still just ball up and run through opponents. Why they hammered Cutter when he was fine, is beyond me.

They replaced him with Forge, who is incredibly OP. In addition, there are still only 2 leaders worth picking for UNSC, Forge and Serina, with the rest being virtually useless.
No raid did make every other UNSC worthless.

He didn't need to hit and run as much as people think. You could literally spool his units up to a base and just destroy it with his marines and a handful of snipers. Pair that with most of the other UNSC not even having grenade on their marines and there was nothing they could do. That's why they nerfed raid and more importantly buffed Flamers. As that was the only way a UNSC could beat him is if you won an early trade and them shoved flamers down his throat. At 3-5m you could walk down pretty much everyone. It was very very well defined that he did this to.
As a cutter main the most effective (sometimes only) way of breaking a shield stack from a banished player was to drop ODST charges.

With a 40% deduction to this, if there are any other tips out there for breaking it, I'd like to hear it. Tryin to be constructive here...
3-4 vultures drops a shield stack. 9-11 will drop the shield stack and continue on to destroy the base. You might have to build something besides infantry now.
Exactly my point. Oh I have you beat and you're retreating to your base...oh wait your totally safe now and probably invisible and all my units are dying in front of your base. Let me retreat so I can just que up my 10 vultures really fast.

Oh oh what's this?!? A banshee blob? A reaver locust blob teleported where I can't get to them before my base explodes?! I thought I only had to get ten vultures out?!?! Don't forget those 5 nightengales I need to detect cloaking!! Those never get shot down.
Omni Sweep wrote:
SWAT 79 wrote:
The cutter nerfs were a necessity.

You're mental if you think the C4 charges from ODST should've been kept untouched against buildings. Please be reasonable.

Raid made all the rest of UNSC, except Jerome, useless. It needed a nerf and it's been needing that for seasons now.

The cutter nerfs were not, because ODSTs were so easily counterable and only came up at best, once every 3 minutes. They were absolutely useless against Banished because of shields, and after early game against UNSC they weren't worth much either. Raid did not make UNSC useless, as all of the other leaders maintaned powers that would allow them to win engagements.

The only thing Cutter had going for him was early game map control and hit and run tactics. All of the Banished had advantages over Cutter, and Kinsano and Jerome could also hold their own against him. With Scout vehicles being so OP, Raid wasn't nearly as effective as it could have been. Again, the best Cutters were forced to MICRO, which is something that should be rewarded, not nerfed. This is why Atriox is still one of the stronger leaders despite the season to season nerfs, they were all minor and he can still just ball up and run through opponents. Why they hammered Cutter when he was fine, is beyond me.

They replaced him with Forge, who is incredibly OP. In addition, there are still only 2 leaders worth picking for UNSC, Forge and Serina, with the rest being virtually useless.
No raid did make every other UNSC worthless.

He didn't need to hit and run as much as people think. You could literally spool his units up to a base and just destroy it with his marines and a handful of snipers. Pair that with most of the other UNSC not even having grenade on their marines and there was nothing they could do. That's why they nerfed raid and more importantly buffed Flamers. As that was the only way a UNSC could beat him is if you won an early trade and them shoved flamers down his throat. At 3-5m you could walk down pretty much everyone. It was very very well defined that he did this to.
All of this. The top Cutters i played against did NOT hit and run. They literally just steamroll your standing army at the 4 minute mark then go straight for your base. If you survive they just send in wave after wave. Until they eventually get close air support then its game over. Hit and Run my black -Yoink-.
As a cutter main the most effective (sometimes only) way of breaking a shield stack from a banished player was to drop ODST charges.

With a 40% deduction to this, if there are any other tips out there for breaking it, I'd like to hear it. Tryin to be constructive here...
3-4 vultures drops a shield stack. 9-11 will drop the shield stack and continue on to destroy the base. You might have to build something besides infantry now.
Exactly my point. Oh I have you beat and you're retreating to your base...oh wait your totally safe now and probably invisible and all my units are dying in front of your base. Let me retreat so I can just que up my 10 vultures really fast.

Oh oh what's this?!? A banshee blob? A reaver locust blob teleported where I can't get to them before my base explodes?! I thought I only had to get ten vultures out?!?! Don't forget those 5 nightengales I need to detect cloaking!! Those never get shot down.
your being dramatic, you dont need 10 vultures, just 3-4 will drop a shield, they are base killers. You would know this if you actually had to play long games instead of winning everything at the 5 minute mark. If your enemy is camping under a stacked shielded cloaked base then he gave up map control just take all the nodes minibases.
As a cutter main the most effective (sometimes only) way of breaking a shield stack from a banished player was to drop ODST charges.

With a 40% deduction to this, if there are any other tips out there for breaking it, I'd like to hear it. Tryin to be constructive here...
3-4 vultures drops a shield stack. 9-11 will drop the shield stack and continue on to destroy the base. You might have to build something besides infantry now.
Exactly my point. Oh I have you beat and you're retreating to your base...oh wait your totally safe now and probably invisible and all my units are dying in front of your base. Let me retreat so I can just que up my 10 vultures really fast.

Oh oh what's this?!? A banshee blob? A reaver locust blob teleported where I can't get to them before my base explodes?! I thought I only had to get ten vultures out?!?! Don't forget those 5 nightengales I need to detect cloaking!! Those never get shot down.
your being dramatic, you dont need 10 vultures, just 3-4 will drop a shield, they are base killers. You would know this if you actually had to play long games instead of winning everything at the 5 minute mark. If your enemy is camping under a stacked shielded cloaked base then he gave up map control just take all the nodes minibases.
Prolly being dramatic...but my point is if I shouldn't have to rely on vulture attack to take down a base. I'm upset over the cutter thing as you can tell. ODST were, to me, the best way of getting past sheilds. I get that it's farked up if they snipe like 3 UNSC buildings so easily, but with sheilds vs banished? Now that ability is cut in half. Vultures yeah, but it takes a hell of a lot of investment to pull that off.
As a cutter main the most effective (sometimes only) way of breaking a shield stack from a banished player was to drop ODST charges.

With a 40% deduction to this, if there are any other tips out there for breaking it, I'd like to hear it. Tryin to be constructive here...
3-4 vultures drops a shield stack. 9-11 will drop the shield stack and continue on to destroy the base. You might have to build something besides infantry now.
Exactly my point. Oh I have you beat and you're retreating to your base...oh wait your totally safe now and probably invisible and all my units are dying in front of your base. Let me retreat so I can just que up my 10 vultures really fast.

Oh oh what's this?!? A banshee blob? A reaver locust blob teleported where I can't get to them before my base explodes?! I thought I only had to get ten vultures out?!?! Don't forget those 5 nightengales I need to detect cloaking!! Those never get shot down.
your being dramatic, you dont need 10 vultures, just 3-4 will drop a shield, they are base killers. You would know this if you actually had to play long games instead of winning everything at the 5 minute mark. If your enemy is camping under a stacked shielded cloaked base then he gave up map control just take all the nodes minibases.
Prolly being dramatic...but my point is if I shouldn't have to rely on vulture attack to take down a base. I'm upset over the cutter thing as you can tell. ODST were, to me, the best way of getting past sheilds. I get that it's farked up if they snipe like 3 UNSC buildings so easily, but with sheilds vs banished? Now that ability is cut in half. Vultures yeah, but it takes a hell of a lot of investment to pull that off.
You do understand that other UNSC dont have ODST's right? I have had to win against banished just like you, how do you think ive been able to pull that off without ODST? Vultures arent that big of an investment you likely already have an airpad for nightinggales. I think this is a bit of a meta shock for Cutters and i think the speed nerf was a bit too much but the ODST charges absolutely needed to be toned down. You have other options to deal with bases and your just going to have to learn to start working them into your builds. use 3-4 vultures to drop the shields then call down close air support.
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