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Last I checked Cutter can build Hellbringers too. Faster hellbringers beat normal hellbringers. So if you're lazy enough to never scout the enemy Barracks then blame yourself, not the game. You should still win infantry engagements as Cutter you're being overly dramatic to the point you try to argue basic infantry beats faster infantry, I mean how the hell...
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Id like to be a lot harsher on the Cutters. i have a feeling some of them dont even know the vultures have a "Y" ability or that camping under shields makes units super vulnerable to getting shut down by nightingales. Ill wait til next week when the nerf drops though and see how everyone is responding. My leader has an instant nuclear bomb so i cant really lecture about strategy and skill play right now.
Not only that, close air support is similar to old eradication in the sense you can do nothing about it, it will destroy your base 100% or you will lose all your army.

Only counter to CAS is reavers and we all know going reavers is asking to lose the game against cutter.

So I just don't buy these cutter mains being victims of not having ways to crack shields because you're cracking me up.
Close Air Support is counter able, avoidable, and when used on a banished base is only useful if there are no invisiblity generators, if the base has shields, it does little damage after the fact. If you have 4 reavers under those shields, you'll be able to take out 1 of the pelicans, effectively limiting it's power by 33%. You're killing me right now dude. There are always ways to win, crack shields, etc. However as Cutter it is not as easy as Atriox, I am failing to see how you can't understand that. I've tried to explain simply, yet you want to make it seem like you're breaking barriers lol. Cutter may have been the only leader to get map control on you, which is why I imagine you're upset. But if you use grunts, engineers, choppers, and chosen (whatever that combo is), you should have no issue early game with Cutter.

Which really surprises me why you're so game to break him down, as he wasn't OP nor a top 5 leader to begin with this season, let alone being OP in any season.

CAS is VERY effective on UNSC bases however.
@Rolling Js Up

OK so this whole time you've been talking about 3v3...

You're tripping if you think Banished can go Banshee Reaver Locust against Cutter. Only way they can do that is with all the nodes and going un-scouted.

Everyone knows going reavers locust against Cutter is dumb because Cutter's cyclops outrun any vehicle, kill vehicles in like 3 shots, deal plenty damage to bases and lastly he can cyclops drop anytime. I have no idea what sort of low level games you're playing where you get beat as cutter with banshee reaver locust.
Id like to be a lot harsher on the Cutters. i have a feeling some of them dont even know the vultures have a "Y" ability or that camping under shields makes units super vulnerable to getting shut down by nightingales. Ill wait til next week when the nerf drops though and see how everyone is responding. My leader has an instant nuclear bomb so i cant really lecture about strategy and skill play right now.
I rarely use vultures with Cutter, but probably have to think about implementing them now. My late game is generally weak but in the past I try to transition to vehicles (tanks and anti air) and still mix in Cyclops or Snipers. It is hard to get fully upgraded vehicles AND air as cutter when your job in the first half of a team game is building snipers and Cyclops and flamers which utilize Raid. I know you mentioned on a different thread (I think) that it might be best to go in with three vultures supported by tanks and some sort of counter units infantry... which is a great idea except it takes so long for Cutter to get that stuff upgraded enough to factor in. I probably will start going the vulture route now that infantry are a little less squishy to air. Marines/ODST with Cyclops and some Vultures showing up at a base would be a pretty good combo, especially when dropping in CAS.

I may not be the best player, but I think the Cutter opener has to be a mix of flamers and marines now... not a marine sniper mix... flamers are a must now with cutter... I used to build 5 to mix in to help take down mini bases early game, but now I find myself building about 10 or so with less marines mixed in. Still don't have answer for Forgehog, but against banished that is how I roll now. Again, I don't claim to be the best, but I am trying to adapt my Cutter play with the changes. Stun drops are still nice to slow part of an army you are chasing so your counters (Cyclops or snipers) can catch up and merc the stunned units.
DA Cleric wrote:
@Rolling Js Up

OK so this whole time you've been talking about 3v3...

You're tripping if you think Banished can go Banshee Reaver Locust against Cutter. Only way they can do that is with all the nodes and going un-scouted.

Everyone knows going reavers locust against Cutter is dumb because Cutter's cyclops outrun any vehicle, kill vehicles in like 3 shots, deal plenty damage to bases and lastly he can cyclops drop anytime. I have no idea what sort of low level games you're playing where you get beat as cutter with banshee reaver locust.
Id like to be a lot harsher on the Cutters. i have a feeling some of them dont even know the vultures have a "Y" ability or that camping under shields makes units super vulnerable to getting shut down by nightingales. Ill wait til next week when the nerf drops though and see how everyone is responding. My leader has an instant nuclear bomb so i cant really lecture about strategy and skill play right now.
I rarely use vultures with Cutter, but probably have to think about implementing them now. My late game is generally weak but in the past I try to transition to vehicles (tanks and anti air) and still mix in Cyclops or Snipers. It is hard to get fully upgraded vehicles AND air as cutter when your job in the first half of a team game is building snipers and Cyclops and flamers which utilize Raid. I know you mentioned on a different thread (I think) that it might be best to go in with three vultures supported by tanks and some sort of counter units infantry... which is a great idea except it takes so long for Cutter to get that stuff upgraded enough to factor in. I probably will start going the vulture route now that infantry are a little less squishy to air. Marines/ODST with Cyclops and some Vultures showing up at a base would be a pretty good combo, especially when dropping in CAS.

I may not be the best player, but I think the Cutter opener has to be a mix of flamers and marines now... not a marine sniper mix... flamers are a must now with cutter... I used to build 5 to mix in to help take down mini bases early game, but now I find myself building about 10 or so with less marines mixed in. Still don't have answer for Forgehog, but against banished that is how I roll now. Again, I don't claim to be the best, but I am trying to adapt my Cutter play with the changes. Stun drops are still nice to slow part of an army you are chasing so your counters (Cyclops or snipers) can catch up and merc the stunned units.
Despite being available at T1 im not sure snipers are cost effective until stanchion. So your thinking here is probably spot on. Marines even Cutter marines just get utterly demolished by hellbringers now. The old Meta for Cutter was to basically mass marine with very little other units and dedicate power to upgrades. Thats not gonna fly anymore.
Last I checked Cutter can build Hellbringers too. Faster hellbringers beat normal hellbringers. So if you're lazy enough to never scout the enemy Barracks then blame yourself, not the game. You should still win infantry engagements as Cutter you're being overly dramatic to the point you try to argue basic infantry beats faster infantry, I mean how the hell...
...
Id like to be a lot harsher on the Cutters. i have a feeling some of them dont even know the vultures have a "Y" ability or that camping under shields makes units super vulnerable to getting shut down by nightingales. Ill wait til next week when the nerf drops though and see how everyone is responding. My leader has an instant nuclear bomb so i cant really lecture about strategy and skill play right now.
Not only that, close air support is similar to old eradication in the sense you can do nothing about it, it will destroy your base 100% or you will lose all your army.

Only counter to CAS is reavers and we all know going reavers is asking to lose the game against cutter.

So I just don't buy these cutter mains being victims of not having ways to crack shields because you're cracking me up.
Except that Serina can freeze those CAS planes.
I think that's a little lame.
Curse you ice queen!!
Cutter is fine. His Raid I and Raid II got nerfed by 3% and 5% respectively, which is hardly being nerfed into the ground and you still cap nodes stupid fast. Grenade Marines are still a very strong opener and flamers got a buff, utilize that. His Jerome got buffed too and UNSC basically got blanket buffs to a lot of stuff this patch. The only thing they changed with Cutter is a small speed nerf, veterency, and ODST building damage. If your entire strategy revolved around ODST base sniping, then yea you're pretty much SOL. But the rest of Cutters kit is unchanged. He's got units drops, offensive leader powers, and good utility with Raid. Just because you cant spam marines and dominate the map anymore doesn't mean he's worthless. And ODSTs are still going to be useful at sniping minibases. Once the Forgehog is brought back into line and Serina gets some changes, Cutter will still be one of the top leaders, just like he has been in every meta so far.
Omni Sweep wrote:
SWAT 79 wrote:
The cutter nerfs were a necessity.

You're mental if you think the C4 charges from ODST should've been kept untouched against buildings. Please be reasonable.

Raid made all the rest of UNSC, except Jerome, useless. It needed a nerf and it's been needing that for seasons now.

The cutter nerfs were not, because ODSTs were so easily counterable and only came up at best, once every 3 minutes. They were absolutely useless against Banished because of shields, and after early game against UNSC they weren't worth much either. Raid did not make UNSC useless, as all of the other leaders maintaned powers that would allow them to win engagements.

The only thing Cutter had going for him was early game map control and hit and run tactics. All of the Banished had advantages over Cutter, and Kinsano and Jerome could also hold their own against him. With Scout vehicles being so OP, Raid wasn't nearly as effective as it could have been. Again, the best Cutters were forced to MICRO, which is something that should be rewarded, not nerfed. This is why Atriox is still one of the stronger leaders despite the season to season nerfs, they were all minor and he can still just ball up and run through opponents. Why they hammered Cutter when he was fine, is beyond me.

They replaced him with Forge, who is incredibly OP. In addition, there are still only 2 leaders worth picking for UNSC, Forge and Serina, with the rest being virtually useless.
No raid did make every other UNSC worthless.

He didn't need to hit and run as much as people think. You could literally spool his units up to a base and just destroy it with his marines and a handful of snipers. Pair that with most of the other UNSC not even having grenade on their marines and there was nothing they could do. That's why they nerfed raid and more importantly buffed Flamers. As that was the only way a UNSC could beat him is if you won an early trade and them shoved flamers down his throat. At 3-5m you could walk down pretty much everyone. It was very very well defined that he did this to.
All of this. The top Cutters i played against did NOT hit and run. They literally just steamroll your standing army at the 4 minute mark then go straight for your base. If you survive they just send in wave after wave. Until they eventually get close air support then its game over. Hit and Run my black -Yoink-.
I would literally hard build Marines to get like 10ish by like 3-4 and maybe double snipers. Take healing drones remove any control you have of the power nodes close to you, then kill your mini. Then lada da da over to your main nade whatever turret you may think will save you. Maybe I call turret, maybe I call Cyclopes? who knows but that way point is on your base and they're coming.
So now that everyone has had almost a full week, how do people see Cutter faring? I haven't gotten to play much since the patch so I was curious what people are experiencing. He seems to be at a bit of a disadvantage to me.
DA Cleric wrote:
So now that everyone has had almost a full week, how do people see Cutter faring? I haven't gotten to play much since the patch so I was curious what people are experiencing. He seems to be at a bit of a disadvantage to me.
I think he's probably fine, but no one is really going to use him again until they patch the game.

Little reason to try with an infantry based leader when there's a vehicle hero that shoots emp rounds.
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