Forums / Games / Halo Wars 2

Decimus Banshee OP Abuse

OP EJGPharmMD

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Is it just me, or does it appear that 343 made another absolutely rediculous update....it has again become absolutely impossible to destroy decimus banshees. It would appear not only are the developers unconcerned with giving us updated content...but also are completely oblivious to the problems in their own game (probably because they realize its next to unplayable..) Decimus needs a nerf. Period. Air needs a nerf. Period. Anti air needs a buff. Period. There is no strategy dominating the map with an unstoppable unit. I have been a supporter of the HW games since the original. I've played hundreds of hours of the games. I will not buy the next DLC if 343 continues being incompetent and unresponsive about the issues in the game they are already letting die.

Thoughts?
I don't really agree with your delivery here, but yes, Decimus Banshees are an issue. While they can be beaten, it simply requires way too much AA to keep up with them once Deci has all his actives/passives.

And that's about all I agree with. Air it self is in a good spot; it's doing its job and can be easily countered. Nonetheless, air is receiving some minors nerfs and AA is receiving some minor buffs. While I want to say these changes will help you, they probably won't. If you're struggling to fight air now, you're going to continue to struggle to fight it, as playing against it really comes down to the fundamentals.

The devs are not oblivious to the game's balance. They frequently are in touch with members of the community, of all skill levels, to gather feedback and see what's good. Not to mention, the devs have access to all the damage modifiers, damage models, and units values. With those two things combined, they know what's up.

You need to understand that balancing a game, especially and RTS, is not an easy feat, by any means. No matter what they do, there will always be those who disagree with them and throw shade, like you're doing here. Also, lets not forget that the team still working on the game is very, very small. They don't have he resources they used to, so things take time.

Personally, I believe the devs are doing a great job. Have you read the latch preview? Bruh, those changes are beautiful.
Well, guys like Postums are really trying to listen to the community & it's issues.
If you read the new patch notes you see that they do actually care about the game. Besides the Deci Banshee issue isn't that easy to fix.
EJGPharmMD wrote:
(probably because they realize its next to unplayable..)

Unplayable? The game is the most balanced it's been. Air is acting fine and so is AA.
EJGPharmMD wrote:
It would appear not only are the developers unconcerned with giving us updated content...but also are completely oblivious to the problems in their own game
They actually do realize they're problems with this game. Did you even see that only a couple of hours ago 343 was literally asking the community on these very forums their view on infantry(Grunts and Marines in particular) and how to fix them? If that doesn't show just how up-to-date 343 is with the community I don't know what else does.
EJGPharmMD wrote:
Decimus needs a nerf. Period. Air needs a nerf. Period. Anti air needs a buff. Period.
Maybe, nope, and definitely without a doubt no.

EJGPharmMD wrote:
Decimus needs a nerf. Period. Air needs a nerf. Period. Anti air needs a buff. Period. There is no strategy dominating the map with an unstoppable unit.
If you can give me numbers and statics and facts saying that Decimus is unkillable or in this case "unstoppable", then I'd be on board the "Buff Air Nerf Decimus" bandwagon. But I can guarantee there are multiple ways to counter Decmius and his leader powers. AA is doing fine, and it's doing decent on Decimus. I agree, Decimus needs a slight nerf, but the game isn't unplayable because of one leader that is slightly better in comparison.
EJGPharmMD wrote:
Is it just me, or does it appear that 343 made another absolutely rediculous update....it has again become absolutely impossible to destroy decimus banshees. It would appear not only are the developers unconcerned with giving us updated content...but also are completely oblivious to the problems in their own game (probably because they realize its next to unplayable..) Decimus needs a nerf. Period. Air needs a nerf. Period. Anti air needs a buff. Period. There is no strategy dominating the map with an unstoppable unit. I have been a supporter of the HW games since the original. I've played hundreds of hours of the games. I will not buy the next DLC if 343 continues being incompetent and unresponsive about the issues in the game they are already letting die.

Thoughts?
Well I would like to apologize that you are having such a rough time dealing with air and feel as though the work myself and others on our team are doing is a poor job in your eyes in balancing the game. But in good news - quite a few pieces of our next balance update are directly looking to make it easier to deal with air in general. As well, Decimus Banshees are a force to be reckoned with and I understand how hard it can be as I've definitely been on the receiving end of a beating by them.
Please feel free to take a look at the balance update preview here and leave more feedback on this.
But one thing I can say is we are definitely not letting the game die. Myself and others are coming in every day to work with the intention of making a better experience for everyone in Halo Wars 2.
Kill em with kindness Postums!
I have read the balancing update, and you basically undid the fix you made form the previous update. when you run into constante teams of people all using the same leader, there is an obvious problem. I play ALOT of this game, so maybe some of you who have not noticed the problem don't spend as much time on teh game as I do. Air in general is OP.. There are not enough leader powers that affect air the way they do ground units. I have spent time with friends in custom games determining how to handle air units. There is no answer. And for those of you who say there is a way to counter decimus, you are correct. Pray the person using him doesn't understand how to stack his leader powers. I ran decimus roughly 20 times yesterday, and didn't lose a game. You can have a full population of fully upgraded banshees by 7 minutes. And stacking his siphon leader powers makes him practically unstoppable. And I agree, balancing the game is a very difficult task. However if the dev team should err it should be on side of units without other advantages. Air not only has the advantage of speed, low cost, and easy maneuvering. Why would you also add other forces to further make the class harder to deal with. Wolverines are almost completely useless. Do a custom game, and put a wolverine vs a banshee. Its very disappointing, especially considering the huge cost on power early game.
Oh my, this will be fun.

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when you run into constante teams of people all using the same leader, there is an obvious problem.
If this implies that you're solo searching, there is your first problem. Anyways, regardless of what changes are made to this game, some leaders will always be better than others, that's just how it is. This will never change. Some people really like winning, so they will play strong leaders. Decimus is a strong leader, so people run him. But again, many leaders are better than him; Anders, Cutter, Kinsano, The Arbiter, to name a few.

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I play ALOT of this game, so maybe some of you who have not noticed the problem don't spend as much time on teh game as I do.
I have roughly the double games played as you, my guy, I know the game well. I already said I agreed with about Decimus Banshees about being any issue. Air itself, however, is not an issue.

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Air in general is OP.. There are not enough leader powers that affect air the way they do ground units. I have spent time with friends in custom games determining how to handle air units. There is no answer.
No. Just simply no. Air units are made of paper and drop to AA with ease. Sure, LP's don't hit air as easily, but air units are waaaaaay more expensive than ground units, so it's a fair trade off. Yes, there is an answer to air; multiple actually. AA units, proper micro, scouting, proper positioning, and situational awareness will aid you in beating air.

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And for those of you who say there is a way to counter decimus, you are correct. Pray the person using him doesn't understand how to stack his leader powers. I ran decimus roughly 20 times yesterday, and didn't lose a game. You can have a full population of fully upgraded banshees by 7 minutes. And stacking his siphon leader powers makes him practically unstoppable.
Wrong again, kiddo. Fighting Decimus units simply requires you to run a few extra counter units, that is all. Granted, for air, it requires a little to much AA to fight Deci Banshees. Winning 20 times against casual players literally means nothing, my guy. Feel free to play against my friends and I, I would love for you to show me how OP air is.

120 population of T3 Banshees by seven minutes? Yeah, no, lol.

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Air not only has the advantage of speed, low cost, and easy maneuvering. Why would you also add other forces to further make the class harder to deal with. Wolverines are almost completely useless. Do a custom game, and put a wolverine vs a banshee. Its very disappointing, especially considering the huge cost on power early game.
Air has mobility, yes, that's the whole point of air units. But this mobility comes at a cost, core air units are still among the most expensive units in the game and are made of paper. Wolverines do exactly what they should do; kill air, and they do it well. Couple them with Warthogs and you will be fine. I have literally run hundreds of these tests, AA beats air just fine.

Again, I welcome you to play against me. I will record the games and use them to showcase how this actually plays out in a real game. If you're able to reliably win using solely air units, then I will admit there is a problem. It'll be fun :D
EJGPharmMD wrote:
However if the dev team should err it should be on side of units without other advantages. Air not only has the advantage of speed, low cost, and easy maneuvering. Why would you also add other forces to further make the class harder to deal with. Wolverines are almost completely useless. Do a custom game, and put a wolverine vs a banshee. Its very disappointing, especially considering the huge cost on power early game.
Air vs. AA will take longer to kill.
Air vs. building will take longer to kill.
And AA is getting cheaper.
There are no buffs for air this patch coming minus the T3 versions of air. As well, we are touching the leader powers that are making them nearly invulnerable at this time.
My apologies.
I gotta say, I haven't played in a while but a buddy just messaged me and asked if I wanted to play. I wanted to check the forums to see if the balance had improved since I was last on (a while ago, when air was still decimating AA and hunter's brand was absolutely ridiculous) and I'm happy to see that balancing is still an issue thats being addressed. Think I'm gonna pick this game up again after the long break after all. Keep up the good work guys.
I gotta say, I haven't played in a while but a buddy just messaged me and asked if I wanted to play. I wanted to check the forums to see if the balance had improved since I was last on (a while ago, when air was still decimating AA and hunter's brand was absolutely ridiculous) and I'm happy to see that balancing is still an issue thats being addressed. Think I'm gonna pick this game up again after the long break after all. Keep up the good work guys.
Developers are still actively working with members of the competitive community in order to make the best game possible. Obviously the game wont be perfect but it is much better than it has been and the next set of patch notes look amazing too. This game is definitely worth the pick up.
EJGPharmMD wrote:
My apologies.
Why are you apologizing? You came with your experience and what has happened so far to you with a valid opinion. I'm sorry if my responses offended you in any way as that was not my intention. My participation was to showcase some improvements that we are looking at to help improve the experiences you are calling out as many have voiced the same opinion.

Right now I'm actually in the code looking at heal rates for Conduit of Rage for the Arbiter and ways of reducing the healing affect that Decimus units currently have while attacking through active siphon and boundless siphon.

To be clear, my intent was to simply say this. We are listening and looking at various ways to constantly improve balance for the game. We value the feedback that you have and know that many people are having a tough time trying to beat air in various ways. The intent others are saying is that there are ways to beat them that you may have not found as of yet. But I wholeheartedly agree as well does the community that certain leader power passives (looking at you Decimus and Arbiter) make it very difficult to handle them.
I mean decimus gets ruined by quite alot of the other leaders hes extremely hard to play with k
on 1v1. decimus does not need a nerf neither does air. your issue is the siphons
Use aa and leader powers sure banshees are fast but you should hit a couple banshees with your leader powers
Postums wrote:
EJGPharmMD wrote:
My apologies.
Why are you apologizing? You came with your experience and what has happened so far to you with a valid opinion. I'm sorry if my responses offended you in any way as that was not my intention. My participation was to showcase some improvements that we are looking at to help improve the experiences you are calling out as many have voiced the same opinion.

Right now I'm actually in the code looking at heal rates for Conduit of Rage for the Arbiter and ways of reducing the healing affect that Decimus units currently have while attacking through active siphon and boundless siphon.

To be clear, my intent was to simply say this. We are listening and looking at various ways to constantly improve balance for the game. We value the feedback that you have and know that many people are having a tough time trying to beat air in various ways. The intent others are saying is that there are ways to beat them that you may have not found as of yet. But I wholeheartedly agree as well does the community that certain leader power passives (looking at you Decimus and Arbiter) make it very difficult to handle them.
im worried that when decimus loses a chunk of his siphon and boundless siphon whats he even good for? is he getting buffs elsewhere to make him competetive
First off just want to say thanks to Postums and 343 staff for your hard work making this awesome game and maintaining it as well. Now on to the topic of Decimus Banshees, they are not op. Do they have an edge amongst all other air yes, because of his passives. I have shut down so many full air even double air in 2s .
There is something called Anti air Build those and use your leader powers that's what they are there for and play smart .

Drops mic 🎤🎤🎤🎤
Halo Wars 2 is notorious for OP air. Air simply beats everything and in real life that's usually the case as well.

Personally i think banshees, hornets etc should have paper thin armor. It doesnt make sense why wolverines have the weak armor/HP.
Halo Wars 2 is notorious for OP air. Air simply beats everything and in real life that's usually the case as well.

Personally i think banshees, hornets etc should have paper thin armor. It doesnt make sense why wolverines have the weak armor/HP.
I can agree with aa getting better armor but air is strong against vehicles and wolverines and reavers are vehicles that are strong against air and banshees and hornets don’t beat everything this has been proven a couple times actually if you watch some videos like don’t get me wrong air is strong but in my opinion air isn’t op just great
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