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[Locked] Design Feedback : Multiplayer

OP ske7ch

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343 Please Don't nerf Serina into oblivion and to a point where she will go to the "overnerfed garbage".
To stop people from complaining and make the game in almost perfect balance spot for now:

1. Nerf Forgehogs Y ability to 150%
2. SLIGHTLY tweak Serina by increasing CD of her Cryo+Seismic combo and fix the exploit people are talking about and a bit longer time to freeze. Don't touch damage.
3. Buff Cutters UNSC Raid at it's original state and make it affect only Marines ( it was unnecessary nerf).
4.Buff Anders Protector Sentinels DPS slightly because at this point I feel like it's a wasted point to put in them and they still feel useless and UP.
5. Buff Colossus damage and speed a bit. Range is fine now but they still need some buffs for what they cost.
Serina has made the game unplayable for me, the frost aoe on her capture point gives her ridiculous map control, its area needs to be halved or the aura needs to disappear after a time period, having infantry freeze multiple times while capturing is infuriating. Her frost in general has way too much utility - it needs to take longer to take effect. The flamer buff combined with Serina's shield leader power is overpowered, they would be a bargain at 1.5 x cost. Do Serina's leader powers have cooldowns? I'm honestly wondering... maybe increase those? Oh yeah, the Bison, great idea, give a leader an excellent rush unit AND a hero unit that can freeze a whole base, BRILLIANT! Serina is not FUN to play against, your units are constantly frozen, her freezes get comboed with -Yoink- eradication and the like, so your whole army gets its full damage, her stupid ice blocks stay around for years and have a massive health pool. Honestly CA, did you even play her before you carelessly tossed her in your game? She is the definition of a broken POS.
Beats94 wrote:
343 Please Don't nerf Serina into oblivion and to a point where she will go to the "overnerfed garbage".
To stop people from complaining and make the game in almost perfect balance spot for now:

1. Nerf Forgehogs Y ability to 150%
2. SLIGHTLY tweak Serina by increasing CD of her Cryo+Seismic combo and fix the exploit people are talking about and a bit longer time to freeze. Don't touch damage.
3. Buff Cutters UNSC Raid at it's original state and make it affect only Marines ( it was unnecessary nerf).
4.Buff Anders Protector Sentinels DPS slightly because at this point I feel like it's a wasted point to put in them and they still feel useless and UP.
5. Buff Colossus damage and speed a bit. Range is fine now but they still need some buffs for what they cost.
Forgehog is now in a spot where it can compete with Jerome and his Mantis, why touch it?
My one complaint about the most recent update is forge's warthog and its 300% increase. For perspective I had an army of 5hunters upgraded to level one infantry and also 4 banshees and I put this army against a forge warthog and no other troops. This forge warthog used its y ability and killed all the hunter and then finished off the banshees with ease I think this shows just how overpowered the damn thing is so please lower its power by a certain amount. Perhaps halve its power. Other than that I have no other complaints I'm very happy with all other adjustments made to the game and thank you very much for putting effort into making this game very enjoyable. Have a nice day😄
From what i can tell. Forge Hog is amazing and no need for a nerf, dab on all the haters
So here are some bugs affecting balancing issues I've noticed after this patch. I've included suggestions that should improve balance without drastically buffing/nerfing any leaders or powers, but rather address oversights in the mechanics' implementation:
  • Johnson's bunker drops do not receive the upgraded pop cap/shields if they were deployed before the second upgrade was purchased. Perhaps since they are different than other powers in their function this was an oversight.
  • Fixing this would definitely make the second upgrade more appealing, as there's not much point when you already have defenses set up, but no bonuses are applied when the upgrade is purchased. That or forcing you to spend time risking your units and limiting tactical and strategic options by replacing the bunkers is unsatisfying.
  • Johnson's smart missile will fly off and do nothing if the unit it was tracking dies before impact. While the same thing happens to a lesser extent with Jerome, his increased projectile velocity and rate of fire largely negate the issue. With Johnson, however, I have had engagements where almost every smart missile fired after the first is wasted because his chain gun killed them before the missile impacted.
  • There are two recommendations for this:
  1. Increase smart missile velocity slightly. It's humorous watching infantry try to escape a missile like it's Michael Myers for a little bit, but it wears off pretty quickly. I do not know if Johnson could potentially have more than one missile in flight at once if the first target evades, while he engages a second target, or if the reload only begins once the first missile has detonated, causing him to lose DPS unnecessarily. If the missile can impact sooner, the more effective he will be more able to function as intended.
  2. If the original target dies, the smart missile already in flight should instantly acquire a new target within local line of sight. If that target dies before impact, rinse and repeat until it hits or everything is gone.
  • Isabel's freeze ray and ice effects work through Banished base shields. I've watched Frostravens freeze units well inside my ally's shield generator area, as well as Bison deployment doing the same. A possible reason for this, as my friend pointed out, is that freeze might be considered a status effect, and not direct damage, allowing it to accidentally bypass shields.
  • These same abilities also affect Johnson's mech units when Mech Overcharge is active. I deliberately turned it on before entering the aura, and while still active, they took frost effects just the same.
Here are my suggestions for balancing these new mechanics:
  1. Any sort of invulnerability powers should prevent (frost) status buildup, while either allowing any currently applied effect to dissipate as if they were no longer in the aura/under attack, and/or immediately cancelling all cold/frozen status to all applicable units. Invulnerability is meant to either allow escape or attempt to turn the tide of an otherwise costly engagement, but it is useless if they can do neither against her abilities.
  2. Frost/freeze should have different effects against units that have active shields. Here are the possible scenarios that would dampen its potency while increasing overall strategic diversity:
  • Unit has personal shields: This applies to Locusts, Isabel's Scorpions/Nightingales, Anders' turrets, and any other unit that has their own shields. As long as their shield is up, they will not take on frost effects. However, being in the aura/frost weapon attacked will weaken their shields, and once they are down, will begin to take on the effects, and cannot recharge until they are no longer actively being attacked/standing in AoE (this allows shields to recharge normally after combat, even if there is residual frost effect on the surviving units). This gives players a way to resist Serina's effects without directly nerfing her, and incentivizes players to reconsider underutilized leaders like Isabel and Anders, whose unit-shielding leader powers will give them much more flexibility against Serina's powers.
  • Engineer/Scarab shield ability: These special abilities will not totally block the status effects, but instead reduce the rate at which they accumulate for units within their radius (just like they do with regular attacks). Since this is a Banished exclusive ability, the reduction should be somewhat marginal, as to not give every one of their leaders a built-in counter to her powers and tip the meta-scales too far in favor of the Banished.
  • Cloaked units: No changes. Her passive aura effects are a unique counter to cloaked units (Snipers, Shrouded units, etc) that allows her a different playstyle when fighting against them. Strategically entrapping a blob of cloaked grunts with Ice Barriers, then shattering them to pieces with Seismic Blast should feel exhilarating for anyone skilled enough to pull it off.
  • Banished shield generators: Similar to personal shields, no effects will be inflicted on inside structures or units until the shields are down. And also like the changes to personal shields, frost auras and weapons will weaken the shields over time, and not be able to regenerate until status is actively being applied. This prevents Serina from completely nullifying Banished defenses, yet gives her auras a way to passively weaken the unique advantage they have. An example would be Serina stumbling upon an undefended shielded/cloaked base, but lacking detector units. Currently, a Bison can petrify the whole base with its deployment. Instead, they would now weaken the shields until they drop, then once the cloaking generator is frozen, it can be shattered, and the base will be revealed and open for attack.
I hope everyone enjoys these suggestions! Hopefully, if they are implemented, players will have more options when using different leaders, and create a rock-paper-scissors meta-aspect to choosing leaders before a match starts.
Please stop OVER buffing things and then OVER nerfing things.

Make small changes to Forge, nerf his y ability but don't make it useless.
Something has to give with this new leader. Either a buff towards leaders or a Nerf towards freezing. I think flamethrowers should have a defrost ability. They use to have flashbang I don't know why that ever went away.
The update u did to forge and the new leader serina makes your game unplayable do u guys even test it before u put the content out there has been nothing but disappointment after disappointment fix your -Yoink-
Serena' s cryo abilities recharge way too quickly and are dirt cheap. The radius and slow effect of some of her cryo abilities should also be tweaked.. The cryo blast seismic round combo is also a big problem. It recharges far to quickly and can destroy all of your counter units instantly with little hope of being able to dodge it due to the short warning time. I like the concept of an area denial leader however Serena currently is a little too good at her job and needs to be nerfed carefully.
Super Units; too much healing, yet too weak. Just un-nerf them, and make them not heal *in combat.*
Fun fact did you know that the flamehog upgrade actually does less damage to a base than either version of the Warthog and the original flamehog. As a leader who specializes in killing infantry AND base killing. Flamehogs seems to suck at both.

For example. 6 flamehogs with the level 1 Veterency can't destroy a base (THATS NOT EVEN FINISHED WITH CONSTRUCTION I MIGHT ADD) before it finishes construction.. (which is a 45second window)

Add in the Incendiary rounds. And it actually does less damage to the base than you would without it. Somebody please tell me what is the purpose of nerfing her even further..

On top of that. The Kinsano hero. She still can't kill a minibase By herself (The Atriox/Decimus/Jerome Hero kills a base faster). Her flame wall still can't kill infantry. WHICH WAS HER MAIN PURPOSE.

Maybe I'm playing her wrong. Maybe you guys at 343 have a specific way that she should be played that nobody has found out yet. But the fact that one of your heroes is no longer viable to play in any game mode.
Fun fact did you know that the flamehog upgrade actually does less damage to a base than either version of the Warthog and the original flamehog. As a leader who specializes in killing infantry AND base killing. Flamehogs seems to suck at both.

For example. 6 flamehogs with the level 1 Veterency can't destroy a base (THATS NOT EVEN FINISHED WITH CONSTRUCTION I MIGHT ADD) before it finishes construction.. (which is a 45second window)

Add in the Incendiary rounds. And it actually does less damage to the base than you would without it. Somebody please tell me what is the purpose of nerfing her even further..

On top of that. The Kinsano hero. She still can't kill a minibase By herself (The Atriox/Decimus/Jerome Hero kills a base faster). Her flame wall still can't kill infantry. WHICH WAS HER MAIN PURPOSE.

Maybe I'm playing her wrong. Maybe you guys at 343 have a specific way that she should be played that nobody has found out yet. But the fact that one of your heroes is no longer viable to play in any game mode.
One more point of anger.
1 Kinsano hero. With all her personal upgrades. And level 3 infantry. WITH level 1 veterency. WITH Level 1 Redline. WITH Level 3 Hellcharge.

Is unable to deal more damage to a building than 1 Nightingale and/or ghost Healing the base. In other words. Healing the base with minimal support is better than the hero whose main purpose is to destroy bases...

Another fact. With those same stats with the hero kinsano. 4 Hellbringers WITHOUT Oxidizers kills a base faster than Kinsano.

TELL ME THATS NOT AN OVER NERF. I DARE SOMEONE TO TELL ME THAT.
Hay 343 industries, creative assembly and community,

I'm writing again because of the newest balance patch and new leader.
Overall the balance update is pretty good, if there werent some things, which made it worse than better.
The boost which sergeant forge got is nice, because he was nearly as useless as dirt compared with the other leader before this balanceupdate. But what have you done to sergeant forges warthog!? It is nice that it now has more health and his maoncannondamage got pushed, but seriously what were you doing as you thought it would have been a good idea to trippel the damage of anvilammunition? Sleeping, making a party or being on a troll round, because now you only need foges warthog and his y-ability to completely dominate the enemy. The y-ability nearly oneshots an entire army so he only needs one more hit on every unit to kill it on every techlevel.
The game is pretty much unplayable/a free lose for you, if you get an enemy with sergeant forge as leader, who knows how to use the broken y-ability. 2v2 and 3v3 against two forges is now broken because the enemy only needs his hero to completely control you. Please lower the damage of forgeswarthog y-ability to a level of 150%-200% and not 300% to the preupdate damage.
Also his movement speed is a bit to high. He is faster as a warthog and faster as a banshee, an airunit which are normally the fastest units on the battlefield, which is pretty ridiculous, because if you get it to destroy the enemies army and only forges warthog has survived and you chase him with banshees or hornets, he can escape them with no problem. So also decrease forges warthog movementspeed, so that is as fast as a warthog.

Next point in my comment/letter/essay is the problems with the new leader Serina.
Her abilities and unique units are nice on the paper, but ingame they are to strong or a little bit weak?.
The frosteffect freezes units and bases much to fast and the slownesseffect on enemyunits is also a bit to strong. Basebuilding should atleast take twice as long or even more to be completely frozen and units should take 1.5 times as of the actual gamestandpoint.
The frostbarrier freezingarea should be decreased a bit, if not it should atleast only be possible to throw them so close to an enemybuilding, that the freezingeffectarea ends exact in front of the buildingborder of the enemybuilding, because at the moment you only need to have enough vision to throw one frostbarrierpiece in earlygame on the left and right side of the enemybase and the enemy has no/hardly resource/energy supply for the next 3 min. and every units which gets out of the base is already half frozen, with which the round is pretty much already a victory for the serinaplayer.
The cryo-bomb and seismic shock ability are to effectiv for the amount of resources they cost and the cooldowntime is to short, so make those abilities more expensive and the cooldown longer.
The icestorm is compared to cryo-bomb to weak. It is the "big" leaderability of serina but it doesnt feel a bit like it, so make it more effectiv or adapt the cryo-bomb to it.
The frostraven is pretty nice, but I somehow have the feeling that it may have a bit less health, but that is only my feeling.
I know that you guys have some employees who are employed to playtest the game to find bugs and balanceproblems, so why are there still so often many really big balanceproblems which arent even hard to find in every gameexpansion/update (for example kinzanos trippleturretdrop, commander jeromes hero being to strong in early game), sigh...... .
That is all I have to write at the moment, I will take a break from HALO WARS 2 as long as the problems which I have written about are fixed/ better balanced, because at the moment it is again so, that if you dont play as leader xy (Forge and or Serina) an play strategy xy (Forges Warthog, annoy the enemy with freezingeffect or both at the same time) you lose by default, if you play against experienced players and that is something I hate more than anything.

See ya until the next gameexpansion with its balancebroken units, abilities and bugs, bye.
Beats94 wrote:
343 Please Don't nerf Serina into oblivion and to a point where she will go to the "overnerfed garbage".
To stop people from complaining and make the game in almost perfect balance spot for now:

1. Nerf Forgehogs Y ability to 150%
2. SLIGHTLY tweak Serina by increasing CD of her Cryo+Seismic combo and fix the exploit people are talking about and a bit longer time to freeze. Don't touch damage.
3. Buff Cutters UNSC Raid at it's original state and make it affect only Marines ( it was unnecessary nerf).
4.Buff Anders Protector Sentinels DPS slightly because at this point I feel like it's a wasted point to put in them and they still feel useless and UP.
5. Buff Colossus damage and speed a bit. Range is fine now but they still need some buffs for what they cost.
Forgehog is now in a spot where it can compete with Jerome and his Mantis, why touch it?
His maincannondamage and health are completely fine, that he moves faster as any other unit is ridiculous and a bit stupid but making a hero y-ability so strong that it is many times stronger as any other hero y-ability, which also can kill an entire army alone, what only the big expensive active leaderabilities should be able to do is just broken and totally unfair against the player who decided to play as another leader.
Beats94 wrote:
343 Please Don't nerf Serina into oblivion and to a point where she will go to the "overnerfed garbage".
To stop people from complaining and make the game in almost perfect balance spot for now:

1. Nerf Forgehogs Y ability to 150%
2. SLIGHTLY tweak Serina by increasing CD of her Cryo+Seismic combo and fix the exploit people are talking about and a bit longer time to freeze. Don't touch damage.
3. Buff Cutters UNSC Raid at it's original state and make it affect only Marines ( it was unnecessary nerf).
4.Buff Anders Protector Sentinels DPS slightly because at this point I feel like it's a wasted point to put in them and they still feel useless and UP.
5. Buff Colossus damage and speed a bit. Range is fine now but they still need some buffs for what they cost.
naw Colossus is good how it is now
Shouldn't there be way to choose the game mode in matchmaking
After extensive testing with friends in 3v3 custom games, I can confirm that both Forge AND Serina need work.

A lot of work.

And by work, I mean debuffing.

Forge's Y ability is far too powerful. As a Banished leader, dealing with this early game is extremely difficult. It's basically a rush to get Tech 2 done so you can start building Hunters, but at 160/160 cost per Hunter squad, building them is extremely cost prohibitive at that ~3 minute mark. Forge's "cost to performance ratio" is through the roof. It's almost reminiscent of pre-patch Jerome a few short weeks ago. How this made it out of testing, completely confuses me. Even when you get those Hunter squads out, if you are not extremely careful about spreading them out, Forge will hit you with the Y ability and kill them. Attempting to mass produce hunters at this stage in the game leaves you open to literally everything else, especially air, all to just deal with one Hero unit.

Serina's cryo abilities are WAY TOO MUCH and WAY TOO SOON in the first few minutes of the game. It's spam spam spam. Having the ability to basically lock down power nodes in a MASSIVE radius at the beginning of the game is insane. It's incredibly hard to get to the power nodes, let alone the units defending it, at the beginning of the game. This ability makes Atriox's cloaked mines look worthless, as they are expendable. I think it would be fair to give this particular leader power two level upgrades, with the base ability being a much smaller radius. Serina's leader powers, especially in the first few minutes of the game, are incredibly broken, and when there are two or more Serinas in the game, which is often the case lately between her and Forge, there are noticeable performance issues with the Xbox One when they are all SPAM SPAM SPAMMING cryo abilities that have the effectiveness of late game abilities within 3 minutes.

I think there is an inherent issue with the people developing patches and deciding what needs to get patched when. Those people are trying to balance too many things at once, instead of addressing common complaints. The complaints get addressed between the patches, which is a start, but what good does THAT do when you break many more things at the same time, creating MORE complaints, and messing up the launch of every new DLC leader(s) that comes out every month?
It bewilders me how forges warthog hasn't been addressed yet, almost ruining the game for me most matches because its just a stupid turtle game while the other guy gets to tech 3 in 6 minutes. Also the sentinels should be looked back into as it seems like they still do ridiculous amounts of damage to wolverines, i had 15 fully upgraded wolves and buddy flies over and wrecks every one of them with the support from 4 AA turrets, 'm just wondering if it was only banshees and hornets that did ;less damage to AA units or all air units.
X299 wrote:
After extensive testing with friends in 3v3 custom games, I can confirm that both Forge AND Serina need work.

A lot of work.

And by work, I mean debuffing.

Forge's Y ability is far too powerful. As a Banished leader, dealing with this early game is extremely difficult. It's basically a rush to get Tech 2 done so you can start building Hunters, but at 160/160 cost per Hunter squad, building them is extremely cost prohibitive at that ~3 minute mark. Forge's "cost to performance ratio" is through the roof. It's almost reminiscent of pre-patch Jerome a few short weeks ago. How this made it out of testing, completely confuses me. Even when you get those Hunter squads out, if you are not extremely careful about spreading them out, Forge will hit you with the Y ability and kill them. Attempting to mass produce hunters at this stage in the game leaves you open to literally everything else, especially air, all to just deal with one Hero unit.

Serina's cryo abilities are WAY TOO MUCH and WAY TOO SOON in the first few minutes of the game. It's spam spam spam. Having the ability to basically lock down power nodes in a MASSIVE radius at the beginning of the game is insane. It's incredibly hard to get to the power nodes, let alone the units defending it, at the beginning of the game. This ability makes Atriox's cloaked mines look worthless, as they are expendable. I think it would be fair to give this particular leader power two level upgrades, with the base ability being a much smaller radius. Serina's leader powers, especially in the first few minutes of the game, are incredibly broken, and when there are two or more Serinas in the game, which is often the case lately between her and Forge, there are noticeable performance issues with the Xbox One when they are all SPAM SPAM SPAMMING cryo abilities that have the effectiveness of late game abilities within 3 minutes.

I think there is an inherent issue with the people developing patches and deciding what needs to get patched when. Those people are trying to balance too many things at once, instead of addressing common complaints. The complaints get addressed between the patches, which is a start, but what good does THAT do when you break many more things at the same time, creating MORE complaints, and messing up the launch of every new DLC leader(s) that comes out every month?
I believe this all stems from the process of adding new leaders as DLC every few months instead of just finishing the leaders prior to release to ensure everything is properly balanced before launch.
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