Forums / Games / Halo Wars Series

Do rangers feel a bit too good to anyone else?

OP legofan3225

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The title really says it. Rangers were already effective pre-patch, but they absolutely shred infantry now. 6 squads will rip through a really large force of infantry on a level unparalleled by snipers or flamers. Combined with the CT marine nerf, this seems to place UNSC in a pretty bad spot this season....

In an earlier game, I was able to kill a 40+ pop infantry attack of JPBs, grunts, and a Warlord with only 3 squads fielded. That seems a little bit extreme. I still lost the game in the end, but I think I should've definitely lost sooner.
I dont have much else to say other than after only a couple games I definitely see this and agree.
They are anti Infantry. If they shred the enemy Hunters, Hellbringers, Jump Brutes, Goliaths, and Cyclops', then as far as I'm concerned, this is good. They were probably the most useless units to build pre-patch for anyone actually interested in winning the match.
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
UNSC still dominates T1 with hero and good splits vs suis. Banished carry over essentially nothing from T1 to T2 minus hero builds while UNSC can bring both hellbringers and marines into respectable status early in T2. The only unit a banished player could do to stop that was suis. But like I said before, with splits you'll lose soooooo this was needed. IMO
LbonB312 wrote:
They are anti Infantry. If they shred the enemy Hunters, Hellbringers, Jump Brutes, Goliaths, and Cyclops', then as far as I'm concerned, this is good. They were probably the most useless units to build pre-patch for anyone actually interested in winning the match.
Pre patch, the general consensus between high players seemed to be that rangers did well. 8 squads would rip through infantry builds of hunters, cyclops, etc; they struggled a bit more against CT marines. I certainly would not have considered them useless in the slightest before. Really, rangers could ALREADY kill everything they needed to.

Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
So several squads to counter an enemy army isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only needing 2-3 squads to completely shut down infantry play is not a good thing- their cost-benefit is way too high compared to other counter units. If my math is right, the third member, even with the 50% health/damage reduction to each unit in the squad, still boosts the health and DPS by about 25%. That's already an insane buff, but we also see an increased fire rate from the squad which likely increases their DPS even higher. Doesn't that seem a little extreme?
LbonB312 wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
So several squads to counter an enemy army isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only needing 2-3 squads to completely shut down infantry play is not a good thing- their cost-benefit is way too high compared to other counter units. If my math is right, the third member, even with the 50% health/damage reduction to each unit in the squad, still boosts the health and DPS by about 25%. That's already an insane buff, but we also see an increased fire rate from the squad which likely increases their DPS even higher. Doesn't that seem a little extreme?
I don't think I have seen them manage to utterly shut down enemy infantry. Decimate them as they rightly should sure, but not utterly shut down. Now I admit to being ignorant on the UNSC side but as I said earlier have not the snipers done the same since day one? Holding nodes easily when you try capturing them and seeing through active camo?

Picking off your leader units from a distance while they are fighting the enemy army? When you tried this with rangers before they only scared enemy troops off, rarely killed them. Enemy leaders didn't even bother killing your rangers while they captured the node as they didn't do enough damage. However now your enemy has to be just as careful since rangers can do the damage the snipers could before.
Ado Ulamee wrote:
LbonB312 wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
So several squads to counter an enemy army isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only needing 2-3 squads to completely shut down infantry play is not a good thing- their cost-benefit is way too high compared to other counter units. If my math is right, the third member, even with the 50% health/damage reduction to each unit in the squad, still boosts the health and DPS by about 25%. That's already an insane buff, but we also see an increased fire rate from the squad which likely increases their DPS even higher. Doesn't that seem a little extreme?
I don't think I have seen them manage to utterly shut down enemy infantry. Decimate them as they rightly should sure, but not utterly shut down. Now I admit to being ignorant on the UNSC side but as I said earlier have not the snipers done the same since day one? Holding nodes easily when you try capturing them and seeing through active camo?

Picking off your leader units from a distance while they are fighting the enemy army? When you tried this with rangers before they only scared enemy troops off, rarely killed them. Enemy leaders didn't even bother killing your rangers while they captured the node as they didn't do enough damage. However now your enemy has to be just as careful since rangers can do the damage the snipers could before.
Snipers have significantly more TTK than rangers RN. Their shots are strong, sure- especially against specialized units like Hunters or Heroes. But they take several shots to take down a single marine or grunt squad, since they only kill one (sometimes 2) squad members at a time. In order to hold a node with snipers well, you need 4-5 of them to instakill a squad. That's 600-750 power(!), not even bringing in upgrades, which would bring the cost upwards of 1000 power. Meanwhile, a single ranger squad can take out marines or grunts in seconds for about 1/3 of the cost of enough snipers to instakill. Sure, you need tech 2, bringing the cost for that one ranger upwards of 1000 as well- but you're on tech 2, and the UNSC player isn't after their sniper investment. Multiply that by a few squads, and rangers are a dominating force. You can't really counterplay them with infantry short of mass snipers.

This raw strength of rangers allows Banished players to tech fast, then crank out 3 squads fast to completely neutralize enemy aggression. That doesn't seem right.
LbonB312 wrote:
They are anti Infantry. If they shred the enemy Hunters, Hellbringers, Jump Brutes, Goliaths, and Cyclops', then as far as I'm concerned, this is good. They were probably the most useless units to build pre-patch for anyone actually interested in winning the match.
Pre patch, the general consensus between high players seemed to be that rangers did well. 8 squads would rip through infantry builds of hunters, cyclops, etc; they struggled a bit more against CT marines. I certainly would not have considered them useless in the slightest before. Really, rangers could ALREADY kill everything they needed to.

Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
So several squads to counter an enemy army isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only needing 2-3 squads to completely shut down infantry play is not a good thing- their cost-benefit is way too high compared to other counter units. If my math is right, the third member, even with the 50% health/damage reduction to each unit in the squad, still boosts the health and DPS by about 25%. That's already an insane buff, but we also see an increased fire rate from the squad which likely increases their DPS even higher. Doesn't that seem a little extreme?
What is extreme is that you’re considering Rangers to an OP unit, this is silly.
Ado Ulamee wrote:
LbonB312 wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
Snipers have significantly more TTK than rangers RN. Their shots are strong, sure- especially against specialized units like Hunters or Heroes. But they take several shots to take down a single marine or grunt squad, since they only kill one (sometimes 2) squad members at a time. In order to hold a node with snipers well, you need 4-5 of them to instakill a squad. That's 600-750 power(!), not even bringing in upgrades, which would bring the cost upwards of 1000 power. Meanwhile, a single ranger squad can take out marines or grunts in seconds for about 1/3 of the cost of enough snipers to instakill. Sure, you need tech 2, bringing the cost for that one ranger upwards of 1000 as well- but you're on tech 2, and the UNSC player isn't after their sniper investment. Multiply that by a few squads, and rangers are a dominating force. You can't really counterplay them with infantry short of mass snipers.

This raw strength of rangers allows Banished players to tech fast, then crank out 3 squads fast to completely neutralize enemy aggression. That doesn't seem right.
I can somewhat see where you are coming from. However I have yet to out-tech the enemy thanks to them doing the same move. perhaps I will see more of that example as the season goes on. While I feel the rangers are in a nice spot for their purpose, I could understand a bit of a price increase for them. That could possibly help balance them out so they are not as overwhelming.
No
The title really says it. Rangers were already effective pre-patch, but they absolutely shred infantry now. 6 squads will rip through a really large force of infantry on a level unparalleled by snipers or flamers. Combined with the CT marine nerf, this seems to place UNSC in a pretty bad spot this season....

In an earlier game, I was able to kill a 40+ pop infantry attack of JPBs, grunts, and a Warlord with only 3 squads fielded. That seems a little bit extreme. I still lost the game in the end, but I think I should've definitely lost sooner.
3 Rangers did that? I can only imagine what 3 of ships vet Rangers can do.
The Elite Enforcers are op especially in Blitz if they've a high lvl
Ado Ulamee wrote:
LbonB312 wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
So several squads to counter an enemy army isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only needing 2-3 squads to completely shut down infantry play is not a good thing- their cost-benefit is way too high compared to other counter units. If my math is right, the third member, even with the 50% health/damage reduction to each unit in the squad, still boosts the health and DPS by about 25%. That's already an insane buff, but we also see an increased fire rate from the squad which likely increases their DPS even higher. Doesn't that seem a little extreme?
I don't think I have seen them manage to utterly shut down enemy infantry. Decimate them as they rightly should sure, but not utterly shut down. Now I admit to being ignorant on the UNSC side but as I said earlier have not the snipers done the same since day one? Holding nodes easily when you try capturing them and seeing through active camo?

Picking off your leader units from a distance while they are fighting the enemy army? When you tried this with rangers before they only scared enemy troops off, rarely killed them. Enemy leaders didn't even bother killing your rangers while they captured the node as they didn't do enough damage. However now your enemy has to be just as careful since rangers can do the damage the snipers could before.
Snipers have significantly more TTK than rangers RN. Their shots are strong, sure- especially against specialized units like Hunters or Heroes. But they take several shots to take down a single marine or grunt squad, since they only kill one (sometimes 2) squad members at a time. In order to hold a node with snipers well, you need 4-5 of them to instakill a squad. That's 600-750 power(!), not even bringing in upgrades, which would bring the cost upwards of 1000 power. Meanwhile, a single ranger squad can take out marines or grunts in seconds for about 1/3 of the cost of enough snipers to instakill. Sure, you need tech 2, bringing the cost for that one ranger upwards of 1000 as well- but you're on tech 2, and the UNSC player isn't after their sniper investment. Multiply that by a few squads, and rangers are a dominating force. You can't really counterplay them with infantry short of mass snipers.

This raw strength of rangers allows Banished players to tech fast, then crank out 3 squads fast to completely neutralize enemy aggression. That doesn't seem right.
This is the most accurate post I have seen regarding rangers/sniper comp. Snipers are good against hero's, and always have been. Yes, they have been good against infantry when mixed with Marines and flamers early game. But where Rangers gain a huge advantage is they have 3 squad members vs. 1 squad member on snipers. Sure snipers hit harder, but Rangers fire much faster and they have three members to absorb rounds. You still needed a decent number of snipers to shut down enemy infantry balls. Seems like you need much less Rangers to do that. Rangers now >> Snipers, Hunters >> Cyclops, Reavers > Wolves. Combine these facts with drops like Shipmaster... very difficult to overcome... not to mention half the Banished leaders also have this nifty new (/s) Beam Power that is incredibly cost effective and melts units as well.
Rangers are good right now. They are anti infantry. Pre patch rangers may be one of weakest and least utilized units in the game. Now they can actually do their jobs as a tier 2 anti infantry for mid to late game.
DA Cleric wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
LbonB312 wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
So several squads to counter an enemy army isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only needing 2-3 squads to completely shut down infantry play is not a good thing- their cost-benefit is way too high compared to other counter units. If my math is right, the third member, even with the 50% health/damage reduction to each unit in the squad, still boosts the health and DPS by about 25%. That's already an insane buff, but we also see an increased fire rate from the squad which likely increases their DPS even higher. Doesn't that seem a little extreme?
I don't think I have seen them manage to utterly shut down enemy infantry. Decimate them as they rightly should sure, but not utterly shut down. Now I admit to being ignorant on the UNSC side but as I said earlier have not the snipers done the same since day one? Holding nodes easily when you try capturing them and seeing through active camo?

Picking off your leader units from a distance while they are fighting the enemy army? When you tried this with rangers before they only scared enemy troops off, rarely killed them. Enemy leaders didn't even bother killing your rangers while they captured the node as they didn't do enough damage. However now your enemy has to be just as careful since rangers can do the damage the snipers could before.
Snipers have significantly more TTK than rangers RN. Their shots are strong, sure- especially against specialized units like Hunters or Heroes. But they take several shots to take down a single marine or grunt squad, since they only kill one (sometimes 2) squad members at a time. In order to hold a node with snipers well, you need 4-5 of them to instakill a squad. That's 600-750 power(!), not even bringing in upgrades, which would bring the cost upwards of 1000 power. Meanwhile, a single ranger squad can take out marines or grunts in seconds for about 1/3 of the cost of enough snipers to instakill. Sure, you need tech 2, bringing the cost for that one ranger upwards of 1000 as well- but you're on tech 2, and the UNSC player isn't after their sniper investment. Multiply that by a few squads, and rangers are a dominating force. You can't really counterplay them with infantry short of mass snipers.

This raw strength of rangers allows Banished players to tech fast, then crank out 3 squads fast to completely neutralize enemy aggression. That doesn't seem right.
This is the most accurate post I have seen regarding rangers/sniper comp. Snipers are good against hero's, and always have been. Yes, they have been good against infantry when mixed with Marines and flamers early game. But where Rangers gain a huge advantage is they have 3 squad members vs. 1 squad member on snipers. Sure snipers hit harder, but Rangers fire much faster and they have three members to absorb rounds. You still needed a decent number of snipers to shut down enemy infantry balls. Seems like you need much less Rangers to do that. Rangers now >> Snipers, Hunters >> Cyclops, Reavers > Wolves. Combine these facts with drops like Shipmaster... very difficult to overcome... not to mention half the Banished leaders also have this nifty new (/s) Beam Power that is incredibly cost effective and melts units as well.
I would not exactly call Reavers better. Reavers deal more damage, got a Y ability, and more survivability to Wolfs. Wolfs got greater speeds so you can kite them from air or chase air respectfully. I will admit, UNSC does NOT have anti-vehicle and nerfed CT which is a huge downfall but the buff to hogs should help relieve this burden.
DA Cleric wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
LbonB312 wrote:
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Snipers did the same thing before this patch and still do. Nothing wrong with the rangers now being an effective unit compared to before. You used to have to make several squads to counter an enemy army, thus wasting population. Now you can make two or three squads that can hold nodes and actually be a threat to enemy leader units. Plus the extra ranger adds more health/staying power to the whole squad.
So several squads to counter an enemy army isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only needing 2-3 squads to completely shut down infantry play is not a good thing- their cost-benefit is way too high compared to other counter units. If my math is right, the third member, even with the 50% health/damage reduction to each unit in the squad, still boosts the health and DPS by about 25%. That's already an insane buff, but we also see an increased fire rate from the squad which likely increases their DPS even higher. Doesn't that seem a little extreme?
I don't think I have seen them manage to utterly shut down enemy infantry. Decimate them as they rightly should sure, but not utterly shut down. Now I admit to being ignorant on the UNSC side but as I said earlier have not the snipers done the same since day one? Holding nodes easily when you try capturing them and seeing through active camo?

Picking off your leader units from a distance while they are fighting the enemy army? When you tried this with rangers before they only scared enemy troops off, rarely killed them. Enemy leaders didn't even bother killing your rangers while they captured the node as they didn't do enough damage. However now your enemy has to be just as careful since rangers can do the damage the snipers could before.
Snipers have significantly more TTK than rangers RN. Their shots are strong, sure- especially against specialized units like Hunters or Heroes. But they take several shots to take down a single marine or grunt squad, since they only kill one (sometimes 2) squad members at a time. In order to hold a node with snipers well, you need 4-5 of them to instakill a squad. That's 600-750 power(!), not even bringing in upgrades, which would bring the cost upwards of 1000 power. Meanwhile, a single ranger squad can take out marines or grunts in seconds for about 1/3 of the cost of enough snipers to instakill. Sure, you need tech 2, bringing the cost for that one ranger upwards of 1000 as well- but you're on tech 2, and the UNSC player isn't after their sniper investment. Multiply that by a few squads, and rangers are a dominating force. You can't really counterplay them with infantry short of mass snipers.

This raw strength of rangers allows Banished players to tech fast, then crank out 3 squads fast to completely neutralize enemy aggression. That doesn't seem right.
This is the most accurate post I have seen regarding rangers/sniper comp. Snipers are good against hero's, and always have been. Yes, they have been good against infantry when mixed with Marines and flamers early game. But where Rangers gain a huge advantage is they have 3 squad members vs. 1 squad member on snipers. Sure snipers hit harder, but Rangers fire much faster and they have three members to absorb rounds. You still needed a decent number of snipers to shut down enemy infantry balls. Seems like you need much less Rangers to do that. Rangers now >> Snipers, Hunters >> Cyclops, Reavers > Wolves. Combine these facts with drops like Shipmaster... very difficult to overcome... not to mention half the Banished leaders also have this nifty new (/s) Beam Power that is incredibly cost effective and melts units as well.
Will play spartan's advocate here. What would you recommend for a solution to this?
I mean, 4-6 snipers pretty much shut down infantry play, why is it so bad that 4-6 ranger squads do the same now?
All you need to counter them is to Make air, they can not attack it as I am informed
All you need to do is make air units, as I’m informed, they cannot attack them.
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