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Does the Spirit of Fire really stand a chance?

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I looked up the Spirit of Fire on a Wiki and apparently they donʻt even have Half the population to house the city where I live never mind Isabel saying they still have half a crew in the beginning of the game. The Banished is known to be a major problem to the Covenant. Defects from them and mercenaries join Atriox to where it also seems they havenʻt been in major combat before the ARK. As well as the ARK is the size of multiple planets and the Banished have had time to control the ARK way before the Spirit of Fire arrived.

How does Captain Cutter hope to fight for the ARK?
I think that depends greatly on the number of troops Atriox has after the destruction of the Enduring Conviction. I'd assume a super carrier like that had a bunch of personnel
I made that same argument. Theres no way realistically the spirit of fire alone after the events of halo wars 1 could take on the banished, a group that almost beat the covenent by themselves.. it doesnt add up at all UNSC < Covenent < Banished therefore UNSC <Banished.. the ONLY way id believe that were possible is if the events of Awakening the nightmare were taking place at the same time as the UNSC were striking the banished
The uncs are not fighting to win the war but rather are denfending themselves against a sort of siege. Their priority is not to defeat the banished, it is to survive long enough for help to arrive from earth. If you pay attention to the story of the campaign, you would see how the missions are all geurilla style missions culminating in the launch of the ring to get an SOS message to the rest of humanity in order to bring help back to the arc for an actual fight.
I mean, it all falls back to the 300 Spartans. Not nearly enough troops to win the battle let alone the war, but they still came out victorious. You must also understand that not nearly as many troops that are deployed actually DIE when they are 'killed' on the battlefield. When they are heavily wounded to the point they can no longer serve in the battle, they are recalled back to the Spirit of Fire to recover. Captain Cutter may fight with all he can and the troops may fight with all they have, but he is far from willing to simply sacrifice the lives of those he cares about.

The Banished forces actually DO die though, Atriox believes completely in self sacrifice. In fact, I'd wager any Banished force that ran from battle was probably killed on sight when Atriox found them. The Banished have massive amounts of forces, but they will quickly dwindle the longer they fight the UNSC. Atriox may be smart when it comes to strategically placing his units, but where he is dumb is where he puts the lives of those that follow him. Cutter preserves the lives of those that he orders, Atriox sends his men to die. Plus, I mean, they may be washouts, but Red Team and even Omega ARE still Spartan-II's, the best soldiers to ever exist to this day.

If anyone can kick Atriox's -Yoink-, it's them...or Chief, depending on whether or not those two ever cross paths.
This is all well and good but realistically the SOF only has 11000 personnel about 8 thousand of which are military. Lets just assume 4k of those were lost in the original halo wars, i cant imagine 4 k troops and whatevers left of their vehicle and aircraft are able to hold atriox back. Also i did notice they were mainly guerilla type missions and they did have the help of the sentinels but even the last mission where you have to hold your position, the banished sent a pretty large force including waves of scarabs which are extremely devastating. Idk i just feel like if thats the case then the banished arent as tough as they make them out to be. I mean Spartan 2s are great and all but in the first cutscene, Atriox threw them around like stone cold steve austin wrestling 3 five year olds he was babysitting. Granted its a video game, im just arguing for arguments sake lol
I mean, it all falls back to the 300 Spartans. Not nearly enough troops to win the battle let alone the war, but they still came out victorious. You must also understand that not nearly as many troops that are deployed actually DIE when they are 'killed' on the battlefield. When they are heavily wounded to the point they can no longer serve in the battle, they are recalled back to the Spirit of Fire to recover. Captain Cutter may fight with all he can and the troops may fight with all they have, but he is far from willing to simply sacrifice the lives of those he cares about.

The Banished forces actually DO die though, Atriox believes completely in self sacrifice. In fact, I'd wager any Banished force that ran from battle was probably killed on sight when Atriox found them. The Banished have massive amounts of forces, but they will quickly dwindle the longer they fight the UNSC. Atriox may be smart when it comes to strategically placing his units, but where he is dumb is where he puts the lives of those that follow him. Cutter preserves the lives of those that he orders, Atriox sends his men to die. Plus, I mean, they may be washouts, but Red Team and even Omega ARE still Spartan-II's, the best soldiers to ever exist to this day.

If anyone can kick Atriox's -Yoink-, it's them...or Chief, depending on whether or not those two ever cross paths.
Wouldn't this make Atriox hypocritical in his own reasons for rebellion? Losing troops is still losing troops, and its never been revealed if the Banished are able to leave the Ark.

I can't imagine Atriox sending troops in to simply die, or killing them on retreat. For once, I have to consider a sympathetic aspect to Atriox, not to mention logistical considerations to his personality. While a brute, he is still considered to be equal to Cutter. That comprises leadership, strategic, and logistical cunning.

In the Rise of Atriox, he states he only wants individuals in the Banished that want to be there, suggesting that like the Spirit of Fire's zeal for survival, the Banished are fighting for something. I think that something is a little vaguely defined at the moment.

Cheers,
Brad
I mean, it all falls back to the 300 Spartans. Not nearly enough troops to win the battle let alone the war, but they still came out victorious. You must also understand that not nearly as many troops that are deployed actually DIE when they are 'killed' on the battlefield. When they are heavily wounded to the point they can no longer serve in the battle, they are recalled back to the Spirit of Fire to recover. Captain Cutter may fight with all he can and the troops may fight with all they have, but he is far from willing to simply sacrifice the lives of those he cares about.

The Banished forces actually DO die though, Atriox believes completely in self sacrifice. In fact, I'd wager any Banished force that ran from battle was probably killed on sight when Atriox found them. The Banished have massive amounts of forces, but they will quickly dwindle the longer they fight the UNSC. Atriox may be smart when it comes to strategically placing his units, but where he is dumb is where he puts the lives of those that follow him. Cutter preserves the lives of those that he orders, Atriox sends his men to die. Plus, I mean, they may be washouts, but Red Team and even Omega ARE still Spartan-II's, the best soldiers to ever exist to this day.

If anyone can kick Atriox's -Yoink-, it's them...or Chief, depending on whether or not those two ever cross paths.
Wouldn't this make Atriox hypocritical in his own reasons for rebellion? Losing troops is still losing troops, and its never been revealed if the Banished are able to leave the Ark.

I can't imagine Atriox sending troops in to simply die, or killing them on retreat. For once, I have to consider a sympathetic aspect to Atriox, not to mention logistical considerations to his personality. While a brute, he is still considered to be equal to Cutter. That comprises leadership, strategic, and logistical cunning.

In the Rise of Atriox, he states he only wants individuals in the Banished that want to be there, suggesting that like the Spirit of Fire's zeal for survival, the Banished are fighting for something. I think that something is a little vaguely defined at the moment.

Cheers,
Brad
I can see Atriox considering anyone who runs as weak as he himself was literally told as the one of 39 other pack brothers to march to battle on beliefs not their own and come back alive while the others perished. He never ran from his fights, he was merely the one who always managed to survive the battles. Considering Atriox himself and his attitude, he is one who will likely sacrifice those he considers unworthy. Think back to all of the conversations you've probably ever overheard from your units while playing a Banished leader. A lot of times they talk about how anyone who disobeys Atriox will 'pay the ultimate price'; fairly sure that's a fate worst than latrine duty.

Or how about Pavium and Voridus in Awakening the Nightmare? Voridus' carefree nature might make us feel like there isn't much to fear when it comes to Atriox and his wrath. But that's usually how it goes with the adventurous and free spirited. They don't care because they do what they want anyway. Pavium on the other hand seems pretty worried when it comes to Atriox and what he might do if Voridus messes up too many times.

As intelligent as Atriox is; Brute culture has always been savage and bloody. Personally, I don't expect too much leniency or sympathy to come pouring out of Atriox in any way, shape, or form. But that might be just me.
I looked up the Spirit of Fire on a Wiki and apparently they donʻt even have Half the population to house the city where I live never mind Isabel saying they still have half a crew in the beginning of the game. The Banished is known to have defects from the Covenant and mercenaries to where it seems they havenʻt been in major combat after the ARK. The ARK is the size of multiple planets and the Banished have had time to control the ARK way before the Spirit of Fire arrived.

How does Captain Cutter hope to fight for the ARK?
A second response differing from my Atriox comments. The question seems phrased a bit like HW2 hasn't occurred yet. But, from an end of the game perspective, the Spirit of Fire is the only ship over the Ark. Regardless of numbers, they have the high ground and presumably air superiority. Even with Anders gone, I'm sure Isabel is in a better position to deploy and access Ark control systems than Banished are. Atriox is also responding to not only a temporary defeat, but a serious encounter with the Flood.

It's a stalemate, in my opinion, that Cutter was hoping for, not total victory. Getting word, and thus reinforcements, to the UNSC, is where his victory lies.

Cheers,
Brad
The uncs are not fighting to win the war but rather are denfending themselves against a sort of siege. Their priority is not to defeat the banished, it is to survive long enough for help to arrive from earth. If you pay attention to the story of the campaign, you would see how the missions are all geurilla style missions culminating in the launch of the ring to get an SOS message to the rest of humanity in order to bring help back to the arc for an actual fight.
The only Guerilla fighting was those under command of Alice on the ground. And Cutter is fighting for the ARK. He says to Atriox in the final mission "We are only talking right now because you know I'm going to take this ARK from you". Either he means that by himself or to wait for backup from the UNSC. Either way, realistic standpoint he shouldnt be able to that long. And knowing that Anders is probably going to be in the middle of a plot fight in Halo infinite, how long would they really survive?
My brother asked me the same question when we were playing the game. I don't really know how he intends to keep fighting without contacting the UNSC for more help
I looked up the Spirit of Fire on a Wiki and apparently they donʻt even have Half the population to house the city where I live never mind Isabel saying they still have half a crew in the beginning of the game. The Banished is known to be a major problem to the Covenant. Defects from them and mercenaries join Atriox to where it also seems they havenʻt been in major combat before the ARK. As well as the ARK is the size of multiple planets and the Banished have had time to control the ARK way before the Spirit of Fire arrived.

How does Captain Cutter hope to fight for the ARK?
If you control the access points and the systems of the ARK, then you control it.
My brother asked me the same question when we were playing the game. I don't really know how he intends to keep fighting without contacting the UNSC for more help
That's originally why they wanted to get on the Halo ring, so when it jumped to it's previous location they could call for help.

Obviously that didn't all go according to plan....
I looked up the Spirit of Fire on a Wiki and apparently they donʻt even have Half the population to house the city where I live never mind Isabel saying they still have half a crew in the beginning of the game. The Banished is known to have defects from the Covenant and mercenaries to where it seems they havenʻt been in major combat after the ARK. The ARK is the size of multiple planets and the Banished have had time to control the ARK way before the Spirit of Fire arrived.

How does Captain Cutter hope to fight for the ARK?
A second response differing from my Atriox comments. The question seems phrased a bit like HW2 hasn't occurred yet. But, from an end of the game perspective, the Spirit of Fire is the only ship over the Ark. Regardless of numbers, they have the high ground and presumably air superiority. Even with Anders gone, I'm sure Isabel is in a better position to deploy and access Ark control systems than Banished are. Atriox is also responding to not only a temporary defeat, but a serious encounter with the Flood.

It's a stalemate, in my opinion, that Cutter was hoping for, not total victory. Getting word, and thus reinforcements, to the UNSC, is where his victory lies.

Cheers,
Brad
I guess that's a small explanation. Give SoF some advantages and let the Banished deal with another matter. But the numbers still matter. In the link i have, originally the soF has around 10k troopers diverse around marines, ODSTs and army troops. With Isabel saying Half alive, figure roughly probably 5k I guess. Even with the controls systems, they only control the mobility on the ARK and they cant force any heavy firefights anymore. With Anders again probably going to be in Halo Infinite, I bet that's going to take a while. Cutter will slowly deplete his troops no matter how many he rations in a fight.
My brother asked me the same question when we were playing the game. I don't really know how he intends to keep fighting without contacting the UNSC for more help
That's originally why they wanted to get on the Halo ring, so when it jumped to it's previous location they could call for help.

Obviously that didn't all go according to plan....
I think a greater question would be how does the spirit of fire intend to rescue Anders and protect the ark at the same time while fighting banished and flood with their current supplies.
My brother asked me the same question when we were playing the game. I don't really know how he intends to keep fighting without contacting the UNSC for more help
That's originally why they wanted to get on the Halo ring, so when it jumped to it's previous location they could call for help.

Obviously that didn't all go according to plan....
I think a greater question would be how does the spirit of fire intend to rescue Anders and protect the ark at the same time while fighting banished and flood with their current supplies.
I believe the Spirit of Fire has no idea that Anders was stopped by a Guardian. So in their minds they're holding the line till help shows up, not knowing that no reinforcements are coming.
My brother asked me the same question when we were playing the game. I don't really know how he intends to keep fighting without contacting the UNSC for more help
That's originally why they wanted to get on the Halo ring, so when it jumped to it's previous location they could call for help.

Obviously that didn't all go according to plan....
I think a greater question would be how does the spirit of fire intend to rescue Anders and protect the ark at the same time while fighting banished and flood with their current supplies.
I believe the Spirit of Fire has no idea that Anders was stopped by a Guardian. So in their minds they're holding the line till help shows up, not knowing that no reinforcements are coming.
So in other words, SoF are holding onto a thin line not strong enough for their weight.
If Halo Infinite does not solve the story of SoF, Halo Wars 3 better show the outcome of their near loss.
The Spirit of Fire was, even within the story, slated to lose extremely fast against the Banished. In fact, the only reason it persisted as long as it did was due to Atriox likely trying to capture the ship mostly intact rather then simply annihilate it. The problem is that covertly boarding and destroying Covenant ships/fleets is literally the bread and butter of S-IIs, and the Spirit of Fire has three. Without the Enduring Conviction, it scarcely matters how much of a numerical advantage the Banished have, their wings are clipped in a more literal sense.

Another important factor is force concentration. If Atriox is has 10x the numbers, even 100x, but is trying to occupy an extremely large area, it thins them out considerably. Battles are not fought with the full might of both sides at the same time. The Spirit of Fire can win individual battles by defeating the Banished in detail. What that means is that they focus a considerably larger proportion of their force on a singular point. Say the Spirit of Fire has 4,000 soldiers and the Banished have 40,000. If the Banished are trying to hold 100 different locations, their average force concentration would be ~400 soldiers per location. Obviously this is just a basic average, more critical areas will have vastly more while less important areas vastly less. What this means is the Spirit of Fire, by only focusing on a handful of missions/areas at a time, can match or exceed the force concentration of the Banished. This advantage is further amplified in the wake of the Enduring Conviction's destruction, as it becomes vastly harder for Atriox to predict UNSC deployments with no limitation or pressure on where the Spirit of Fire can operate. Not to mention the advantage of orbital superiority in general, the defensive safety and the ability to have heavy fire support on demand. Red Team themselves are massive force multipliers in and of themselves. Individually, with very little in the way of direct support, they can frequently take on 1:100 odds against Covenant/Banished combined arms and win decisively repeatedly. James in First Strike says as much of their capability, and the range extends up to 1:500 odds if they have preparation and limited support (And is further supported by many of the games, where you as a lone Spartan kill your way through 100-200 Covenant in the span of 15-30 minutes). That means Red Team, deployed alone or with limited support, is essentially 300-1,500+ dead Banished with few, if any UNSC casualties. That's an insane advantage to have when it comes to facing an opponent far greater than you numerically, but distributed over a vast area and much more limited in mobility.

Also remember that the Ark is huge. The surface area is vastly larger than Earth's. We're talking travel distances likely in the tens of thousands of kilometers, and the potential for some over 100,000km (Diameter of the Ark being 127,000km or so). The Spirit of Fire can traverse these distances extremely rapidly, as can deployed craft that don't have to contend with atmospheric drag. The Banished on the other hand are limited to transportation via Phantoms, Spirits, and Liches in atmosphere, as they would likely be easy pickings of the Spirit of Fire should they attempt approaching an active combat zone from orbit.

In summation, mostly due to the loss of the Enduring Conviction, the immense mobility advantage and near intangibility of the Spirit of Fire allows them to continue their survival and operations on the Ark, slowly bleeding the Banished with strategic concentrations of force.
The Spirit of Fire was, even within the story, slated to lose extremely fast against the Banished. In fact, the only reason it persisted as long as it did was due to Atriox likely trying to capture the ship mostly intact rather then simply annihilate it. The problem is that covertly boarding and destroying Covenant ships/fleets is literally the bread and butter of S-IIs, and the Spirit of Fire has three. Without the Enduring Conviction, it scarcely matters how much of a numerical advantage the Banished have, their wings are clipped in a more literal sense.

Another important factor is force concentration. If Atriox is has 10x the numbers, even 100x, but is trying to occupy an extremely large area, it thins them out considerably. Battles are not fought with the full might of both sides at the same time. The Spirit of Fire can win individual battles by defeating the Banished in detail. What that means is that they focus a considerably larger proportion of their force on a singular point. Say the Spirit of Fire has 4,000 soldiers and the Banished have 40,000. If the Banished are trying to hold 100 different locations, their average force concentration would be ~400 soldiers per location. Obviously this is just a basic average, more critical areas will have vastly more while less important areas vastly less. What this means is the Spirit of Fire, by only focusing on a handful of missions/areas at a time, can match or exceed the force concentration of the Banished. This advantage is further amplified in the wake of the Enduring Conviction's destruction, as it becomes vastly harder for Atriox to predict UNSC deployments with no limitation or pressure on where the Spirit of Fire can operate. Not to mention the advantage of orbital superiority in general, the defensive safety and the ability to have heavy fire support on demand. Red Team themselves are massive force multipliers in and of themselves. Individually, with very little in the way of direct support, they can frequently take on 1:100 odds against Covenant/Banished combined arms and win decisively repeatedly. James in First Strike says as much of their capability, and the range extends up to 1:500 odds if they have preparation and limited support (And is further supported by many of the games, where you as a lone Spartan kill your way through 100-200 Covenant in the span of 15-30 minutes). That means Red Team, deployed alone or with limited support, is essentially 300-1,500+ dead Banished with few, if any UNSC casualties. That's an insane advantage to have when it comes to facing an opponent far greater than you numerically, but distributed over a vast area and much more limited in mobility.

Also remember that the Ark is huge. The surface area is vastly larger than Earth's. We're talking travel distances likely in the tens of thousands of kilometers, and the potential for some over 100,000km (Diameter of the Ark being 127,000km or so). The Spirit of Fire can traverse these distances extremely rapidly, as can deployed craft that don't have to contend with atmospheric drag. The Banished on the other hand are limited to transportation via Phantoms, Spirits, and Liches in atmosphere, as they would likely be easy pickings of the Spirit of Fire should they attempt approaching an active combat zone from orbit.

In summation, mostly due to the loss of the Enduring Conviction, the immense mobility advantage and near intangibility of the Spirit of Fire allows them to continue their survival and operations on the Ark, slowly bleeding the Banished with strategic concentrations of force.
This is the direction my brief comments have been oriented towards. I read Waypoint from my phone, so writing lengthy comments is a large pain. Your comment is well thought out. For me, position (the high ground) and logistics, Spirit of Fire is at a great advantage as HW2 ends. They are still, however, very susceptible to attrition, which lends to more cautious approach by Cutter going forward, in my opinion anyway.

Cheers,
Brad
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