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[Locked] February Patch notes discussion

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Other general feedback I have is to do with the notorious AA argument.

Wolves should be faster than hornets, since they are made specifically to counter them. No one switches to marines late game as a ‘hard air counter’ as that is frankly not very smart. Way too slow; therefore meaning that you build wolverines to act as a mediocrely alright defense against full-army hornet attacks (which seems to be the only thing people are capable of after the patch).

I also personally think that mastodons are still too weak. I’d love to use them late game with marines to heal my tanks on the go but they just don’t seem strong enough to hold up a small amount of damage.
Postums do you have the stat numbers of the retriever sentinel with Veterancy? Is it with Veterancy 1 ,2 or maybe 3 as good as the pre nerfed sentinel ?
WHERE IS RTAS VADUM (H3 SHIPMASTER)???
The Mdama wrote:
WHERE IS RTAS VADUM (H3 SHIPMASTER)???
No more leaders are being added, and to be fair there is a lot of them. Plus, Let Volir is just Rtas.. they’re both shipmasters who have left the covenant. They just look a little different, but they’re still the same thing. :)
Most of them are cool, still...
...I don't think the banshees need a health buff nor lower price. We are all still suffering from Atriox Rush banshees. >=\
DRipper79 wrote:
Most of them are cool, still...
...I don't think the banshees need a health buff nor lower price. We are all still suffering from Atriox Rush banshees. >=\
Genuinely curious, how do you rush Banshees?
DRipper79 wrote:
Most of them are cool, still...
...I don't think the banshees need a health buff nor lower price. We are all still suffering from Atriox Rush banshees. >=\
Genuinely curious, how do you rush Banshees?
Well, double pad triple gen of course. Only the greatest build of all time.

(No, but really, I've seen someone recommend that build lol)
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
More along the lines of 55-56 pop AA beats 120 Air (excluding all leader powers). And it is more towards 70-72 pop if you include passives for the Air (also depending on upgrades). My idea scenario would be 1:3 and 1:~2.5 with passives.
EiTeNeR wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
More along the lines of 55-56 pop AA beats 120 Air (excluding all leader powers). And it is more towards 70-72 pop if you include passives for the Air (also depending on upgrades). My idea scenario would be 1:3 and 1:~2.5 with passives.
If both sides dont micro, full pop air without passive can take 70-80 pop of anti air ( both factions are T3)
The Problem here is that wolves and Reaver aren't as mobile , have to fear siege turrets and mines and gets wrecked by leader powers which air can dodge.
It's very difficult to crack bases with just 40-50 supply of actual units when the opponent turtles.
Meanwhile while you have to get the anti air your opponent can decide to avoid your army and go for your bases , while you can' t push and can' defend all your bases, because of airs mobility.
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
I highly doubt that 10 wolves will beat 30 Hornets! Raid II is great, but on 3v3 maps it just isn't enough and the only fix to this is Pelican drop. I honestly think that was one of the balancing factors behind the original Halo Wars game i.e. the fact that despite infantry being slow you can always Pelican drop them back to your base if things get too hairy.
As for Cyclops and Turret drop, sure they can have their moments but out of all of Cutters leader powers they'd be the ones I'd pick to drop.
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
I highly doubt that 10 wolves will beat 30 Hornets! Raid II is great, but on 3v3 maps it just isn't enough and the only fix to this is Pelican drop. I honestly think that was one of the balancing factors behind the original Halo Wars game i.e. the fact that despite infantry being slow you can always Pelican drop them back to your base if things get too hairy.
As for Cyclops and Turret drop, sure they can have their moments but out of all of Cutters leader powers they'd be the ones I'd pick to drop.
It does, I've done plenty of testing.
10 Wolverines and some Hogs (Up to 80 pop) will beat 120 Pop Banshees.
Cutter doesn't need Pelican Drop over some air units, being out of position is a you problem and not the air/leader.
EiTeNeR wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
More along the lines of 55-56 pop AA beats 120 Air (excluding all leader powers). And it is more towards 70-72 pop if you include passives for the Air (also depending on upgrades). My idea scenario would be 1:3 and 1:~2.5 with passives.
If both sides dont micro, full pop air without passive can take 70-80 pop of anti air ( both factions are T3)
The Problem here is that wolves and Reaver aren't as mobile , have to fear siege turrets and mines and gets wrecked by leader powers which air can dodge.
It's very difficult to crack bases with just 40-50 supply of actual units when the opponent turtles.
Meanwhile while you have to get the anti air your opponent can decide to avoid your army and go for your bases , while you can' t push and can' defend all your bases, because of airs mobility.
I build an average of 40 pop of AA and don't struggle versus someone thats spamming air, If it's Decimus yes you will need more AA but that's his passives, not the air.
40 pop AA with Hogs (80 pop) beats 120 pop Banshees, I'll gladly play against you and you can Air spam all you want, it won't work.
Mr BluDawn wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
More along the lines of 55-56 pop AA beats 120 Air (excluding all leader powers). And it is more towards 70-72 pop if you include passives for the Air (also depending on upgrades). My idea scenario would be 1:3 and 1:~2.5 with passives.
If both sides dont micro, full pop air without passive can take 70-80 pop of anti air ( both factions are T3)
The Problem here is that wolves and Reaver aren't as mobile , have to fear siege turrets and mines and gets wrecked by leader powers which air can dodge.
It's very difficult to crack bases with just 40-50 supply of actual units when the opponent turtles.
Meanwhile while you have to get the anti air your opponent can decide to avoid your army and go for your bases , while you can' t push and can' defend all your bases, because of airs mobility.
I build an average of 40 pop of AA and don't struggle versus someone thats spamming air, If it's Decimus yes you will need more AA but that's his passives, not the air.
40 pop AA with Hogs (80 pop) beats 120 pop Banshees, I'll gladly play against you and you can Air spam all you want, it won't work.
We can gladly do this. I take Atriox and u a leader with standard anti air and no passive. Let me max out on t3 banshes and you can take your 40 heck I give you 50 pop of t3 anti air. Nobody micro and we will see who will win. ( done that test already) .
Pls add me next time when I'm on .
( and that's just a straight up fight, which a max pop banshee army would never take, cause they could already destroy yours bases with minimal loss, while you try to catch them)
Mr BluDawn wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
More along the lines of 55-56 pop AA beats 120 Air (excluding all leader powers). And it is more towards 70-72 pop if you include passives for the Air (also depending on upgrades). My idea scenario would be 1:3 and 1:~2.5 with passives.
If both sides dont micro, full pop air without passive can take 70-80 pop of anti air ( both factions are T3)
The Problem here is that wolves and Reaver aren't as mobile , have to fear siege turrets and mines and gets wrecked by leader powers which air can dodge.
It's very difficult to crack bases with just 40-50 supply of actual units when the opponent turtles.
Meanwhile while you have to get the anti air your opponent can decide to avoid your army and go for your bases , while you can' t push and can' defend all your bases, because of airs mobility.
I build an average of 40 pop of AA and don't struggle versus someone thats spamming air, If it's Decimus yes you will need more AA but that's his passives, not the air.
40 pop AA with Hogs (80 pop) beats 120 pop Banshees, I'll gladly play against you and you can Air spam all you want, it won't work.
We can gladly do this. I take Atriox and u a leader with standard anti air and no passive. Let me max out on t3 banshes and you can take your 40 heck I give you 50 pop of t3 anti air. Nobody micro and we will see who will win. ( done that test already) .
Pls add me next time when I'm on .
( and that's just a straight up fight, which a max pop banshee army would never take, cause they could already destroy yours bases with minimal loss, while you try to catch them)
You know no Micro isn't really a way of "Testing" no one is gonna have their 40 Banshees sit their and get hit by people that Mass AA.
I meant a normal 1v1.
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
More along the lines of 55-56 pop AA beats 120 Air (excluding all leader powers). And it is more towards 70-72 pop if you include passives for the Air (also depending on upgrades). My idea scenario would be 1:3 and 1:~2.5 with passives.
If both sides dont micro, full pop air without passive can take 70-80 pop of anti air ( both factions are T3)
The Problem here is that wolves and Reaver aren't as mobile , have to fear siege turrets and mines and gets wrecked by leader powers which air can dodge.
It's very difficult to crack bases with just 40-50 supply of actual units when the opponent turtles.
Meanwhile while you have to get the anti air your opponent can decide to avoid your army and go for your bases , while you can' t push and can' defend all your bases, because of airs mobility.
I build an average of 40 pop of AA and don't struggle versus someone thats spamming air, If it's Decimus yes you will need more AA but that's his passives, not the air.
40 pop AA with Hogs (80 pop) beats 120 pop Banshees, I'll gladly play against you and you can Air spam all you want, it won't work.
We can gladly do this. I take Atriox and u a leader with standard anti air and no passive. Let me max out on t3 banshes and you can take your 40 heck I give you 50 pop of t3 anti air. Nobody micro and we will see who will win. ( done that test already) .
Pls add me next time when I'm on .
( and that's just a straight up fight, which a max pop banshee army would never take, cause they could already destroy yours bases with minimal loss, while you try to catch them)
You know no Micro isn't really a way of "Testing" no one is gonna have their 40 Banshees sit their and get hit by people that Mass AA.
I meant a normal 1v1.
I dont think that normal 1 vs 1 will prove anything. Look at your rank and mine. You could kill me with skitters only if u want to.
And no the job of a hardcounter is too kill in a resource effect manner without micro your -Yoink- of while the enemy A moves . Its clear that wolves are good vs core air in small numbers, heck in this scenario I would wish they would do less dmg vs banshes. They wreck them, but in ultra late game a maxed out air Army is hardly to engage. Because of this I still believe merging their structure dmg by a huge % would be good.
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Mr BluDawn wrote:
Had quite a few games now where I've been up against full pop air armies and had to go full air myself in the late game and hope I can out-micro and out-produce them.
I suspect that this is mainly because core infantry is just a dreadful late game option vs air when you factor in how slow they are, and you can't beat a full pop air army with AA and also leaving a reasonable amount of pop to then do decent building damage in order to win the game.

I also think it was a mistake not to give cutter the Pelican leader power, that would go a long way towards making an infantry based leader more effective. Get rid of turret drop or cyclops drop in favour of that, they are kinda dead-weight leader powers anyway.
UNSC Raid fixes that issue of slow armies with Cutter. Cyclops Drop is extremely good and unique, Turret drop isn't that bad tbh and can be another stun later in the match and is does a good amount of damage.
40 Pop AA beats 120 Air ez, Reavers imo are better then Wolverines because of range and I feel like they do more damage.
Wolverines speed is great though to keep up with air though.
More along the lines of 55-56 pop AA beats 120 Air (excluding all leader powers). And it is more towards 70-72 pop if you include passives for the Air (also depending on upgrades). My idea scenario would be 1:3 and 1:~2.5 with passives.
If both sides dont micro, full pop air without passive can take 70-80 pop of anti air ( both factions are T3)
The Problem here is that wolves and Reaver aren't as mobile , have to fear siege turrets and mines and gets wrecked by leader powers which air can dodge.
It's very difficult to crack bases with just 40-50 supply of actual units when the opponent turtles.
Meanwhile while you have to get the anti air your opponent can decide to avoid your army and go for your bases , while you can' t push and can' defend all your bases, because of airs mobility.
I build an average of 40 pop of AA and don't struggle versus someone thats spamming air, If it's Decimus yes you will need more AA but that's his passives, not the air.
40 pop AA with Hogs (80 pop) beats 120 pop Banshees, I'll gladly play against you and you can Air spam all you want, it won't work.
We can gladly do this. I take Atriox and u a leader with standard anti air and no passive. Let me max out on t3 banshes and you can take your 40 heck I give you 50 pop of t3 anti air. Nobody micro and we will see who will win. ( done that test already) .
Pls add me next time when I'm on .
( and that's just a straight up fight, which a max pop banshee army would never take, cause they could already destroy yours bases with minimal loss, while you try to catch them)
You know no Micro isn't really a way of "Testing" no one is gonna have their 40 Banshees sit their and get hit by people that Mass AA.
I meant a normal 1v1.
I dont think that normal 1 vs 1 will prove anything. Look at your rank and mine. You could kill me with skitters only if u want to.
And no the job of a hardcounter is too kill in a resource effect manner without micro your -Yoink- of while the enemy A moves . Its clear that wolves are good vs core air in small numbers, heck in this scenario I would wish they would do less dmg vs banshes. They wreck them, but in ultra late game a maxed out air Army is hardly to engage. Because of this I still believe merging their structure dmg by a huge % would be good.
Air and AA Trades very well.
Its like saying Arbiter can kill the Condor (From one of Nucheys video)
Very late game full pop max AA stil isn't a massive issue really, Base fortify lvl 3 solves base sniping.
Air is too OP
Wrensi wrote:
Is anybody else seeing retriever sentinel counting only 24 population after it's deployed? I need 30 pop available to call it in, but it seems like it's only taking up 24 against the cap.
Yup, just checked and you are correct. This will be fixed in the next patch.

Thanks for catching this.
Bummer! Lol wanted to keep that hush hush ;)
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