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[Locked] February Patch notes discussion

OP Postums

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That is what they call a toxic community , where the player with a higher skillevel will claim , that they are the only one who have the right to speak and every other and lower ranked is not worth their time. If you write in a forum you have to be prepared to meet people with other opinions.

And yes you are wrong. A online game shouldn' t be only centered around pros but also casuals. Like I said earlier if a player with perfect macro and micro doesn' t have problems with air , but below a certain skill level nearly 1/4 of the community it is a problem.
That's what other developer understand and that's the reason why balance changes are made carefully in small steps on a test server, to see how the change behave through the leagues.
I hope that this was worth your time reading mate .
You are right also casuals make up the majority of community’s so pros that think we don’t matter should go and get a job or accept the truth that everyone matters
You can't balance a game around every league of skill. It's simply not possible.
Statecraft 2, Supreme Commander, heck even SC1 and Warcraft 3 had test server.

Let me give you a small and similar example.
In Starcraft 2 there was a time when Protoss air was pretty strong. Player under Master had extreme problems to engange and beat a maxed out air Army. Pros had no Problem. Due to their superior micro and macro they could use spellcaster and special units much more efficiently than beginner and normal player.
Regarding this problem Blizzard buffed core units like the Hydralisk which you could compare with a marine squad. Now new player could at least trade 1 to 1 against Protoss air while the pros could still use their spellcaster and trade more efficiency.

That' s what is missing in HW 2. And everyone from noob to Grandmaster has the right to enjoy the game when bought.

I won't claim that all my statements are 100 % right, but I won't let me say from people like you that we don't have rights to suggest changes which makes the game more enjoyable for player which aren't top tier.

Ps Joker SC2 the best strategic game is now F2P , if you claim that I dont have experience in strategic games or in balance feel free to challenge me there

Good night
Postums wrote:
IxJeddeyxI wrote:
Why are tanks getting a damage reduction vs other tanks by 13%?
Also tanks damage to scouts is being increased by 30%. why is that? scouts have no health and they aren't going to be on the field when tanks are out. if anything tanks should get a 30% damage buff vs AA.
Too many scorpions dropping to the 12min chopper rush
No, it's because tanks should pretty much 1 shot a Tier 1 scout vehicle. Scouts are being given zero chance against tanks - that is what this buff is for.
can you make it so marines/grunts have 0 chance against tanks.
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
The biggest problem with the patch by far is that Kinsano Hornets are going to be way out of line. Those things were already so fast, and now they're getting +2 speed. Not gonna be a fun meta.
Air will be fine, AA will be fine. Air has always been countered when microing aa. The biggest thing is having that AA. Knowing there gonna go air and keep pressure up to keep the air down before it gets big. If someone is going air, its not good until they have it atleast somewhat massed. Meaning in team games you can 2v1 and keep pressure on their side while cutting down whatever air comes your way early on. Someone going air is only an issue if its unchecked
Kinsano Hornets will have a speed of 33. That is indefensible.
Oh really. Indefensible. Then start going air for me :) because apparently the speed of the kinsano hornet makes it unstoppable, and instantly massed.
I might do that next patch. Putting that aside, I have no idea what you're arguing. That 33 is a reasonable speed? If so, I don't know if we'll ever find common ground.
Yea aire being fast like that is reasonable. Its a hornet not a fly.
That’s rediculous... you can’t expect a single unit to be that fast, damaging, tough, AND receive buffs for each of those on top of having free terrain movement and NOT be overpowered in a game all about who can kill the other person’s base first.
Thats simply not the case though. AA does its job fine, and when you use it how it should be used air gets slaughtered or atleast cant attack. Air gets shreeded by many different units and its not that hard to fight. So yea, like many units if its massed and untouched it becomes very strong. Doesnt make it unstoppable. INstead of complaining about the issue, dont let it become an issue in the first place(cut it down) or be prepared to invest into defending against it(aa turrets and aa units.)
You’re simply not getting it. Let me explain it like this: AA beats Air, you’re right about that. However, Let’s say I build full cap air, and you build full cap AA. Now, I’m effectively sitting on an army of mobile, speedy, flying, structure-sniping death machines while YOU are forced to make nothing but wolverines for the whole game in order to defend against any potential and random attack by my army of mobile, speedy, flying, structure-sniping death machines. And ONE lapse of judgment on your part, and I can drop your undefended base in 13 seconds. You know what happens if I give your AA 13 seconds to attack my undefended base? You might drop 1/8 Of it’s hit points, while I move on to the rest of your side bases. In other words, your playing defense in losing battle against time. You HAVE to build something other than AA if you have any hope of destroying one of MY bases, see? So by going Air, not only do I get all of the benefits of freedom from terrain inhibition, but I also have the guaranteed assurance of knowing my opponent has to build weak, terrain inhibited, slow AA to defeat my Air, and all I have to do is constantly move around him and avoid combat completely. And if I manage to catch your wolves all grouped together, I can send one banshe or hornet to give me vision for a leader power drop and Inferno, eradication, glassing beam, emp Mac blast, etc etc etc all of your wolves until your sitting on about half of your worthless counter Unit army (worthless not because they don’t beat Air, but because it takes them about 20x as long to kill a base.
So much of this was wrong. And thats not what one who trying to successfully beats air should be doing.
Really?! Okay, what *exactly* was wrong. Explain it thoroughly to me. You should have no problem doing so depending on how much knowledge you actually garnish from the situation.
Simply I'm not gonna let you get full Air. Air is only useful when massed and upgraded. I also would be going infantry which shreds air rather well and does fine with base damage. Look its been proven before nerfs hit and after, air can be complex to deal with but there are ways to do it. And theres right ways and wrong ways. And the right way I prefer is pushing them before they get them massed. If there just going air, they are gonna lose.

Edit: had 39 pop of marines t2 damage with combat mechanic on it, and i wiped full pop banshees with their basic upgrade and double siphon, it was beautiful.
Anyone who says air is OP should get a long lesson from TheWall, Nakamura, and ect. They showed countless times how easily air was beat before the buff. I seen AA barrage red bar air quickly while AoE DESTROYS units around it. AA is the best counter in game compared to any other counter. Hunters beats most vehicles by a 2:1 ratio. That means 60 pop is capable of obliteratung mass vehicles effectively. I seen AA beat mass air with a 5:1 ratio WITHOUT any support which means 20 pop AA destroys air in few numbers. I heard 3 wolfs can best mass air when Forge uses Heavy Metal so I say AA is quite strong. The only debuff air needs is damage vs buildings which is a good base cracker for a few leaders but they are still too weak at nearly everything else. If someone masses air to crack a base, you lost a long time ago or did not play aggressive enough to stop tgem from being massed.
I agree air is easy to counter just people have to at some points be creative(example dislocate half an army with ship master and kill one half) or have a bunch of aa
Fix the DC"s that's the main problem not buffs/nerfz
That is what they call a toxic community , where the player with a higher skillevel will claim , that they are the only one who have the right to speak and every other and lower ranked is not worth their time. If you write in a forum you have to be prepared to meet people with other opinions.

And yes you are wrong. A online game shouldn' t be only centered around pros but also casuals. Like I said earlier if a player with perfect macro and micro doesn' t have problems with air , but below a certain skill level nearly 1/4 of the community it is a problem.
That's what other developer understand and that's the reason why balance changes are made carefully in small steps on a test server, to see how the change behave through the leagues.
I hope that this was worth your time reading mate .
Ps Joker SC2 the best strategic game is now F2P , if you claim that I dont have experience in strategic games or in balance feel free to challenge me there

Good night
You remind me of the nba 2k guy on r/HaloWars.

(That's not a good thing)
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
Ruzylo wrote:
The biggest problem with the patch by far is that Kinsano Hornets are going to be way out of line. Those things were already so fast, and now they're getting +2 speed. Not gonna be a fun meta.
Air will be fine, AA will be fine. Air has always been countered when microing aa. The biggest thing is having that AA. Knowing there gonna go air and keep pressure up to keep the air down before it gets big. If someone is going air, its not good until they have it atleast somewhat massed. Meaning in team games you can 2v1 and keep pressure on their side while cutting down whatever air comes your way early on. Someone going air is only an issue if its unchecked
Kinsano Hornets will have a speed of 33. That is indefensible.
Oh really. Indefensible. Then start going air for me :) because apparently the speed of the kinsano hornet makes it unstoppable, and instantly massed.
I might do that next patch. Putting that aside, I have no idea what you're arguing. That 33 is a reasonable speed? If so, I don't know if we'll ever find common ground.
Yea aire being fast like that is reasonable. Its a hornet not a fly.
That’s rediculous... you can’t expect a single unit to be that fast, damaging, tough, AND receive buffs for each of those on top of having free terrain movement and NOT be overpowered in a game all about who can kill the other person’s base first.
Thats simply not the case though. AA does its job fine, and when you use it how it should be used air gets slaughtered or atleast cant attack. Air gets shreeded by many different units and its not that hard to fight. So yea, like many units if its massed and untouched it becomes very strong. Doesnt make it unstoppable. INstead of complaining about the issue, dont let it become an issue in the first place(cut it down) or be prepared to invest into defending against it(aa turrets and aa units.)
You’re simply not getting it. Let me explain it like this: AA beats Air, you’re right about that. However, Let’s say I build full cap air, and you build full cap AA. Now, I’m effectively sitting on an army of mobile, speedy, flying, structure-sniping death machines while YOU are forced to make nothing but wolverines for the whole game in order to defend against any potential and random attack by my army of mobile, speedy, flying, structure-sniping death machines. And ONE lapse of judgment on your part, and I can drop your undefended base in 13 seconds. You know what happens if I give your AA 13 seconds to attack my undefended base? You might drop 1/8 Of it’s hit points, while I move on to the rest of your side bases. In other words, your playing defense in losing battle against time. You HAVE to build something other than AA if you have any hope of destroying one of MY bases, see? So by going Air, not only do I get all of the benefits of freedom from terrain inhibition, but I also have the guaranteed assurance of knowing my opponent has to build weak, terrain inhibited, slow AA to defeat my Air, and all I have to do is constantly move around him and avoid combat completely. And if I manage to catch your wolves all grouped together, I can send one banshe or hornet to give me vision for a leader power drop and Inferno, eradication, glassing beam, emp Mac blast, etc etc etc all of your wolves until your sitting on about half of your worthless counter Unit army (worthless not because they don’t beat Air, but because it takes them about 20x as long to kill a base.
So much of this was wrong. And thats not what one who trying to successfully beats air should be doing.
Let me begin by saying this is my experience so far...
I believe that Badbamaboyz used the most extreme example, but I agree with the premise. I feel as though the UNSC is overall better than the Banished, especially in the area of Marines vs grunts. (Why Marines have the ability to heal, I will never know.)
The point is that the units that defend air are nearly completely useless against everything else, when playing especially with the banished factions.
If i have to sit several groups of Reavers at my bases, then I am already at a disadvantage. All the other person has to do is convert from air t vehicles and I am screwed because Reavers are useless against everything but air. So as the post above says, it is only a matter of time.
Am I seeing right ? No air structure dmg increase ?
Atriox fortifications still sucks don’t make the shield gens go up by 100 each that might help everything else is good!
I am a little concerned with a couple things and like what I'm seeing everywhere else. I think the wraiths were actually in a decent spot before for a change, and that some of these changes might hamper them a little. They already had lower survivability than would be ideal and I think they're going to pop even easier now than before now that air is getting some of its teeth back and then some.

Air units' biggest issue was how easily they ripped through bases. Especially hornets. I do think they need a nerf in that regard.

As a Shippy main, the Shipmaster buffs are pretty pointless. Teleport 2 was already fine, it's range was serviceable and I don't think people are going to notice the slight change that much. The tactical gateway is a very cool ability on paper, but is very infrequently used. Shippy unfortunately has higher priority leader point assignment than TG and you only get that power (besides super late game) if your strategy specifically depends on it. The only times I truly find it relevant are when you're using scarabs or locusts. I think a buff to banished raid to change it from 3 points to 2 would be a way more meaningful change to him. As of now, 3 points is an incredibly expensive investment for faster marauders and wraiths. Especially since you have to ONLY build those units or else the others in your army will negate the speed boost when moved together.

Idk I'll have to try things out and see how they feel. Overall I'm pretty satisfied with the balance changes. It'll be nice to have some more diversity back. Really like the banshee cost decrease.
I still have some concerns about this list. Two things in particular. Air vs Structures and the air/vehicle/infantry triangle.

To start, air's main problem was that they were good against buildings, and now that they're requiring less supplies and do more base dps, they're going to be even MORE effective at cheesing bases. Air should not be the used to do major building dps. Air vs buildings dps should be reduced 30-40%. It's that bad.

Also, the triangle that infantry beats air isn't as effective as it should be. Infantry should tear apart air. AA should only be a temporary solution,(soft counter) until you mass produce infantry, the hard counter. Same with tanks vs infantry. Cyclops,(soft counter) should only be a temporary solution to buy you time to make air, the hard counter.

My fear is that by keeping air so strong against buildings, not being threatened by infantry, thus not having a hard counter, air will continue to run rampant. Even if AA is made to beat air, (Which it shouldn't beat a large army of air, because that's not it's role) then this will still be bad, as the roles of the units are messed up, creating an imbalance in the units, and shifting the meta to where vehicles are meta, (due to not being as easy to counter as infantry or air.) In addition, air will be bad at it's role, (Air vs vehicles) and broken at something it shouldn't be able to do (air vs structures). This needs to be addressed.
This post is wrong on so many levels I don't have time to type it all. I'm going to try. U have it completely mixed up. The game triangle is all SOFT counters. Infantry>air>vechiles>infantry. The UNITS counters are HARD. Example Cyclops to vechile. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Of course it's stronger. Air trades durability for decent all around damage. You need to think before u post this stuff.
<blockquote class="box-quote" data-username="TruthSOSeeker" data-postid="6">
<p>I still have some concerns about this list. Two things in particular. Air vs Structures and the air/vehicle/infantry triangle.<br /><br />To start, air's main problem was that they were good against buildings, and now that they're requiring less supplies and do more base dps, they're going to be even MORE effective at cheesing bases. Air should not be the used to do major building dps. Air vs buildings dps should be reduced 30-40%. It's that bad.<br /><br />Also, the triangle that infantry beats air isn't as effective as it should be. Infantry should tear apart air. AA should only be a temporary solution,(soft counter) until you mass produce infantry, the hard counter. Same with tanks vs infantry. Cyclops,(soft counter) should only be a temporary solution to buy you time to make air, the hard counter.<br /><br />My fear is that by keeping air so strong against buildings, not being threatened by infantry, thus not having a hard counter, air will continue to run rampant. Even if AA is made to beat air, (Which it shouldn't beat a large army of air, because that's not it's role) then this will still be bad, as the roles of the units are messed up, creating an imbalance in the units, and shifting the meta to where vehicles are meta, (due to not being as easy to counter as infantry or air.) In addition, air will be bad at it's role, (Air vs vehicles) and broken at something it shouldn't be able to do (air vs structures). This needs to be addressed.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This post is wrong on so many levels I don't have time to type it all. I'm going to try. U have it completely mixed up. The game triangle is all SOFT counters. Infantry&gt;air&gt;vechiles&gt;infantry. The UNITS counters are HARD. Example Cyclops to vechile. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Of course it's stronger. Air trades durability for decent all around damage. You need to think before u post this stuff.</p>
This is the worst update, AA is so supposed annihilate air not get killed by it, now everyone is going air, I'm better off building more air or Infantry to kill air than to build an AA, air is too OP, stop making weak leaders even weaker
So now Atriox and Decimus with their healing powers all they do is choppers and airplanes. And it turns into a one sided match. I tried it myself and its literally unstopabble.
Shipmaster and arbiter ghosts and the whole map is controlled within minutes. Anti air should stay what it is ANTI AIR to destroy air units quickly. Everybody jumped on the bandwagon and fairly quickly to i must say.
Anyone who says air is OP should get a long lesson from TheWall, Nakamura, and ect. They showed countless times how easily air was beat before the buff. I seen AA barrage red bar air quickly while AoE DESTROYS units around it. AA is the best counter in game compared to any other counter. Hunters beats most vehicles by a 2:1 ratio. That means 60 pop is capable of obliteratung mass vehicles effectively. I seen AA beat mass air with a 5:1 ratio WITHOUT any support which means 20 pop AA destroys air in few numbers. I heard 3 wolfs can best mass air when Forge uses Heavy Metal so I say AA is quite strong. The only debuff air needs is damage vs buildings which is a good base cracker for a few leaders but they are still too weak at nearly everything else. If someone masses air to crack a base, you lost a long time ago or did not play aggressive enough to stop tgem from being massed.
To a point youbare correct. Depending on skill level of the player who has ammassed units. One example ijust finished a game i was sitting by my base woth possibly 80 percent of my units AA Atriox flies in uses his leader power now his units take no damage, then he decodes to use dying breathe and withn 20-30 seconds my base was destroyed together with my AA units.
Second game i played i used atriox choppers up the -Yoink- and tested the same ability and sure enough its unbeatable at any given base. Only UNSC leader that might stand a chance is isabel due to her ghost im the machine.
May the meta where nothing but air is viable begin ....
I still have some concerns about this list. Two things in particular. Air vs Structures and the air/vehicle/infantry triangle.

To start, air's main problem was that they were good against buildings, and now that they're requiring less supplies and do more base dps, they're going to be even MORE effective at cheesing bases. Air should not be the used to do major building dps. Air vs buildings dps should be reduced 30-40%. It's that bad.

Also, the triangle that infantry beats air isn't as effective as it should be. Infantry should tear apart air. AA should only be a temporary solution,(soft counter) until you mass produce infantry, the hard counter. Same with tanks vs infantry. Cyclops,(soft counter) should only be a temporary solution to buy you time to make air, the hard counter.

My fear is that by keeping air so strong against buildings, not being threatened by infantry, thus not having a hard counter, air will continue to run rampant. Even if AA is made to beat air, (Which it shouldn't beat a large army of air, because that's not it's role) then this will still be bad, as the roles of the units are messed up, creating an imbalance in the units, and shifting the meta to where vehicles are meta, (due to not being as easy to counter as infantry or air.) In addition, air will be bad at it's role, (Air vs vehicles) and broken at something it shouldn't be able to do (air vs structures). This needs to be addressed.
This post is wrong on so many levels I don't have time to type it all. I'm going to try. U have it completely mixed up. The game triangle is all SOFT counters. Infantry>air>vechiles>infantry. The UNITS counters are HARD. Example Cyclops to vechile. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Of course it's stronger. Air trades durability for decent all around damage. You need to think before u post this stuff.
First, let me say that I thought this post through carefully before posting it, and would like to keep my position on it. Currently, the core units are the soft counters, and the anti's are the hard counters. However, it is my opinion that this structure is wrong, as it creates an imbalance in the units. For example, let's say wolverines are a hard counter, and beat air when in high enough numbers. It doesn't matter how many wolverines you have, just picture that some number beats air. Now, if wolverines can beat air, then that creates a power imbalance in the infantry vehicle air triangle, as vehicles can now beat the other two branches. (Infantry and air) creating a meta where people only go vehicles. The game would be much more dynamic if core units filled their role better, as it would create a stronger need for adaptation in unit composition.

Example - Say you're on tech 2, and going warthogs. You scout and see the enemy's going air. Now, the natural solution should be to build infantry, but this might take too long, as you might have scouted after the enemy already had several hornets/banshee's out, and you might not have any upgrades on your infantry. Thus, wolverines as a temporary solution makes sense - they're not meant to stop the air, but deter it until you get your infantry out and upgraded.

Another example - You're going infantry and scout they're going vehicles. You can build cyclops as a temporary solution, while you get an airpad up to build hornets/banshees. If the current hard counters,(Cyclops/wolves) beat the unit they hard counter, then it removes a lot of the dynamic of the game,(Infantry beats air/vehicles) Creating an infantry meta. As a proposed solution, infantry needs to be improved to better combat air. (+10-15% damage to marines vs air, and +15-20% damage to grunts vs air)
I still have some concerns about this list. Two things in particular. Air vs Structures and the air/vehicle/infantry triangle.

To start, air's main problem was that they were good against buildings, and now that they're requiring less supplies and do more base dps, they're going to be even MORE effective at cheesing bases. Air should not be the used to do major building dps. Air vs buildings dps should be reduced 30-40%. It's that bad.

Also, the triangle that infantry beats air isn't as effective as it should be. Infantry should tear apart air. AA should only be a temporary solution,(soft counter) until you mass produce infantry, the hard counter. Same with tanks vs infantry. Cyclops,(soft counter) should only be a temporary solution to buy you time to make air, the hard counter.

My fear is that by keeping air so strong against buildings, not being threatened by infantry, thus not having a hard counter, air will continue to run rampant. Even if AA is made to beat air, (Which it shouldn't beat a large army of air, because that's not it's role) then this will still be bad, as the roles of the units are messed up, creating an imbalance in the units, and shifting the meta to where vehicles are meta, (due to not being as easy to counter as infantry or air.) In addition, air will be bad at it's role, (Air vs vehicles) and broken at something it shouldn't be able to do (air vs structures). This needs to be addressed.
This post is wrong on so many levels I don't have time to type it all. I'm going to try. U have it completely mixed up. The game triangle is all SOFT counters. Infantry>air>vechiles>infantry. The UNITS counters are HARD. Example Cyclops to vechile. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Of course it's stronger. Air trades durability for decent all around damage. You need to think before u post this stuff.
First, let me say that I thought this post through carefully before posting it, and would like to keep my position on it. Currently, the core units are the soft counters, and the anti's are the hard counters. However, it is my opinion that this structure is wrong, as it creates an imbalance in the units. For example, let's say wolverines are a hard counter, and beat air when in high enough numbers. It doesn't matter how many wolverines you have, just picture that some number beats air. Now, if wolverines can beat air, then that creates a power imbalance in the infantry vehicle air triangle, as vehicles can now beat the other two branches. (Infantry and air) creating a meta where people only go vehicles. The game would be much more dynamic if core units filled their role better, as it would create a stronger need for adaptation in unit composition.

Example - Say you're on tech 2, and going warthogs. You scout and see the enemy's going air. Now, the natural solution should be to build infantry, but this might take too long, as you might have scouted after the enemy already had several hornets/banshee's out, and you might not have any upgrades on your infantry. Thus, wolverines as a temporary solution makes sense - they're not meant to stop the air, but deter it until you get your infantry out and upgraded.

Another example - You're going infantry and scout they're going vehicles. You can build cyclops as a temporary solution, while you get an airpad up to build hornets/banshees. If the current hard counters,(Cyclops/wolves) beat the unit they hard counter, then it removes a lot of the dynamic of the game,(Infantry beats air/vehicles) Creating an infantry meta. As a proposed solution, infantry needs to be improved to better combat air. (+10-15% damage to marines vs air, and +15-20% damage to grunts vs air)
Again Truth,
if you want to encourage variety of play style, then limiting the choices of units when it comes to countering others is the wrong idea. Instead, the system as it stands should just be balanced. Not in the sense that air = wolverines or that core infantry = crap, but instead, in the sense that every branch has a weakness from the other 2 branches and also a strength against the other 2 branches, such as I have outlined below:
Air Wins Against |Vehicles and Infantry|
| Vehicles | Infantry |
It Beats: Core - Veh Spec - Inf
With: Core - Air Core - Air

Air Loses Against (Vehicles and Infantry)
Its: Core - Air Core - Air
Is Beaten By: AA - Veh Core - Inf
(Vehicles) (Infantry)

Veh Wins Against |Air Units and Infantry|
| Air Units | Infantry |
It Beats: Core - Air Core - Inf
With: AA - Veh Core - Veh

Veh Loses Against (Air Units and Infantry)
Its: Core - Veh Core - Veh
Is Beaten By: Core - Air AV - Inf
(Air Units) (Infantry)

Inf Wins Against |Air Units and Vehicles|
| Air Units | Vehicles |
It Beats: Core - Air Core - Veh
With: Core - Inf AV - Inf

Inf Loses Against (Air Units and vehicles)
Its: AV - Inf Core - Inf
Is Beaten By: Core - Air Core - Veh
(Air Units) (Vehicles)

~legend~
(AV - Inf) ~~~ Anti - Vehicle Infantry
(Core - Inf) ~~~ Core - Infantry
(AA - Veh) ~~~ Anti - Air Vehicle
(Core - Veh ~~~ Core - Vehicle

Of course, I’m keeping in mind, there are obviously more unit roles than what I just typed here ~~~ Anti - Infantry (rangers, suicide grunts, and snipers), Anti - Structure (Locusts, and Kodiaks), Rush - Infantry (Flamers and brute hammers), Heavy Vehicles (Scorpions and Wraths), Heavy Air (Vultures and Blisterbacks), Support Units and Scout Vehicles (Ghosts, Choppers, and Jack Rabbits), etc. But these each have nothing to do with the triangle itself, they just add to the play dynamic overall. Same with Ultimate Units and Leader Units. Just Dynamic Play-style diferrences.
So to put it bluntly, the triangle works forwards AND backwards, providing 2 natural counters for every unit type instead of just one.
Air>Veh>Inf AND Inf>Veh>Air
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