Forums / Games / Halo Wars Series

Hog Rush too much??

OP LikelySquidward

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The thing is, most leaders who can spam Hogs effectively also have good early game options (aside from Isa). Forge's hero opener will lambaste Marines, and Anders can get Inf upgrade 1 and Gren throw for half off due to R&D. Most players aren't going to adhere to a specific strategy, but rather adapt to what the other side is doing. If they think a straight up fast tech is too risky, they can always set off their T2 for more defenses.
As someone who fast techs quite a lot, I can tell you that I can get a minibase and 2 turrets up just fine. Some players don't know this, but going Gen 1st and not building another one gets you a faster T2 than going 3rd and 5th. Building an extra Marine to gather supplies will grant you enough supplies to get minis and/or turrets.
True. You can tech 2 faster if you grab the power first, but yes. If you are getting 2 turrets up and a mini base or two I imagine at the point where you tech up to tier is slightly slower than if someone grabbed all the power supplies and started teching up at 2:00. If you'd like I'd like to try to see if I could stop your tech 2 rush with tier 1 units
Most of the time, I don't go for a fast T2 if I see the other guy going for a hero opener or heavy into infantry. In 2s, if both the players dedicate to T1 and hit a guy who is going straight T2, they can win it right there. I'd rather match them than take a risk and hope I can hold a push with a couple turrets.
agreed
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
Squidward is right.
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
I think most leaders can have a decent rush at the 3 minute mark to stop the warthogs from building. At three minutes there might be one warthog out or maybe even two; but don't forget that even though you upgraded your base at 2 minutes, it takes 30 seconds or so to get to tier 2, then you have to build your garages which takes 15 seconds then you could start building warthogs. I believe that this could be stopped or at least slowed down with some kind of rush or early pressure. What I mean by slowing down is that most of the time, when players do this against me I remove an advanced reactor or two. But it's true that these are players on my level; perhaps the best players could get away with it perfectly. I wouldn't mind testing this maybe with you to see if it is stoppable; I hope it is because if not, then everyone will do the warthog thing and the game will get bland.
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
Squidward is right.
He firmly grasped it.
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
I think most leaders can have a decent rush at the 3 minute mark to stop the warthogs from building. At three minutes there might be one warthog out or maybe even two; but don't forget that even though you upgraded your base at 2 minutes, it takes 30 seconds or so to get to tier 2, then you have to build your garages which takes 15 seconds then you could start building warthogs. I believe that this could be stopped or at least slowed down with some kind of rush or early pressure. What I mean by slowing down is that most of the time, when players do this against me I remove an advanced reactor or two. But it's true that these are players on my level; perhaps the best players could get away with it perfectly. I wouldn't mind testing this maybe with you to see if it is stoppable; I hope it is because if not, then everyone will do the warthog thing and the game will get bland.
Id gladly test the strat with u
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
I think most leaders can have a decent rush at the 3 minute mark to stop the warthogs from building. At three minutes there might be one warthog out or maybe even two; but don't forget that even though you upgraded your base at 2 minutes, it takes 30 seconds or so to get to tier 2, then you have to build your garages which takes 15 seconds then you could start building warthogs. I believe that this could be stopped or at least slowed down with some kind of rush or early pressure. What I mean by slowing down is that most of the time, when players do this against me I remove an advanced reactor or two. But it's true that these are players on my level; perhaps the best players could get away with it perfectly. I wouldn't mind testing this maybe with you to see if it is stoppable; I hope it is because if not, then everyone will do the warthog thing and the game will get bland.
Id gladly test the strat with u
I wanna play :(
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
Squidward is right.
He firmly grasped it.
LOL
I don't think warts cost 200 supplies right off the bat. Even with AV which is probably lacking to do their job, there are ways to stop a warthog spam. You can rush in the beginning, as they can't afford to buy many units if they are rushing to tier 2, you can also fight for the power supplies on the map. A rush at 3 minutes and they will maybe have one or two warthogs out, a few marines don't mind that. Now if you don't rush, and you know what he is doing, you can do the same warthog spam or counter with AV combined with mauraders/warthogs. Even with AV lacking, you will win. Your army will be slower but at least your army will beat his.
Accelerated Assembly x2 gets them to cost 200. And not every leader can make a legitimate Rush at the 2 minute mark. Where your doing actual base damage. The main issue with the Hog rush is u have a full tech 2 army at the 5 minute mark.
By the 4 minite mark u would be able to hit the enemy's base directly or run around the map killing all the Expo's & Minibases uncontested. You wont be able to build enough AV by 4 minutes to fight off 10 warthogs
I think most leaders can have a decent rush at the 3 minute mark to stop the warthogs from building. At three minutes there might be one warthog out or maybe even two; but don't forget that even though you upgraded your base at 2 minutes, it takes 30 seconds or so to get to tier 2, then you have to build your garages which takes 15 seconds then you could start building warthogs. I believe that this could be stopped or at least slowed down with some kind of rush or early pressure. What I mean by slowing down is that most of the time, when players do this against me I remove an advanced reactor or two. But it's true that these are players on my level; perhaps the best players could get away with it perfectly. I wouldn't mind testing this maybe with you to see if it is stoppable; I hope it is because if not, then everyone will do the warthog thing and the game will get bland.
Id gladly test the strat with u
go ahead and add me! my gamer tag is right there, I'm on right now, plus I just got a new mike lol. And you can play too mr. nightshade
I've played this hog spam quite a bit with different leaders and from what I have seen, the only way to effectively rush someone that does a good quick tech is with goliaths or a suicidal amount of flamers (I'm talking going barracks 3rd and 4th and pumping in blind faith). The only counter as it stands right now is to fast tech yourself and either go AV or hogs your self. I disagree that a fast tech should be the only way to beat a fast tech.

Possible Solution
Move hunters and cyclopes to T1 and drop their power cost so that if you see someone quick teching, rush units backed by AV units could in theory shut them down.
THEWALL766 wrote:
I've played this hog spam quite a bit with different leaders and from what I have seen, the only way to effectively rush someone that does a good quick tech is with goliaths or a suicidal amount of flamers (I'm talking going barracks 3rd and 4th and pumping in blind faith). The only counter as it stands right now is to fast tech yourself and either go AV or hogs your self. I disagree that a fast tech should be the only way to beat a fast tech.

Possible SolutionMove hunters and cyclopes to T1 and drop their power cost so that if you see someone quick teching, rush units backed by AV units could in theory shut them down.
Your proposed change would completely phase out scout units, which wouldn't be a fun time.

I feel there's many other ways of fixing this that don't include making scouts even more irrelevant.

Some examples could be:

-slowing down the T2 base upgrade
-increasing Hog build time
-decreasing power generated from first Gen (for first few minutes, or something)
-decreasing power collected from map resources

There's plenty of ways to remedy this, those are just a select few ideas.

AV, well, infantry as a whole, is in a pretty bad spot currently, and needs some work. However, I don't feel making AV T1 is the proper response.

In theory, rush > quick tech > defensive T1 > rush, but currently quick tech Hogs seem to beat just about everything. Appart from a few units and strats... that aren't available to all leaders.

My two cents, at least.
THEWALL766 wrote:
I've played this hog spam quite a bit with different leaders and from what I have seen, the only way to effectively rush someone that does a good quick tech is with goliaths or a suicidal amount of flamers (I'm talking going barracks 3rd and 4th and pumping in blind faith). The only counter as it stands right now is to fast tech yourself and either go AV or hogs your self. I disagree that a fast tech should be the only way to beat a fast tech.

Possible SolutionMove hunters and cyclopes to T1 and drop their power cost so that if you see someone quick teching, rush units backed by AV units could in theory shut them down.
Your proposed change would completely phase out scout units, which wouldn't be a fun time.

I feel there's many other ways of fixing this that don't include making scouts even more irrelevant.

Some examples could be:

-slowing down the T2 base upgrade
-increasing Hog build time
-decreasing power generated from first Gen (for first few minutes, or something)
-decreasing power collected from map resources

There's plenty of ways to remedy this, those are just a select few ideas.

AV, well, infantry as a whole, is in a pretty bad spot currently, and needs some work. However, I don't feel making AV T1 is the proper response.

In theory, rush > quick tech > defensive T1 > rush, but currently quick tech Hogs seem to beat just about everything. Appart from a few units and strats... that aren't available to all leaders.

My two cents, at least.
That makes a lot of sense. I tried to use rabbits to repel a flamer rush the other day and I was disgusted about how bad they did. We don't need that nerfed any more.
Some other idea that ive been think of were decreasing the power available on the map and increasing the hog build time so that less can be made in defense if your opponent successfully rushes. I like your T1 Strategy quadrilateral, ive actually though about I that way too. I hope its something that 343 can address in the next patch.
I have had opponents try this strat on me..

All you have to do is build marines(w/nades)+ whatever hero. easily stopped.
I have had opponents try this strat on me..

All you have to do is build marines(w/nades)+ whatever hero. easily stopped.
I think we need to have a custom match here DC Longshot
I have had opponents try this strat on me..

All you have to do is build marines(w/nades)+ whatever hero. easily stopped.
I think we need to have a custom match here DC Longshot
Lolz. Sure.

I have had opponents try this strat on me..

All you have to do is build marines(w/nades)+ whatever hero. easily stopped.
While going quick tech hogs is by no means unstoppable, it is really effective. It also forces the opponent into going for a heavy early rush or likely lose the match. In teams it's easier to have one player quick tech into hogs while the others run interference, but I've also found success with it in 1s. I'd be happy to show you if you wish.
I have had opponents try this strat on me..

All you have to do is build marines(w/nades)+ whatever hero. easily stopped.
I think we need to have a custom match here DC Longshot
A person that does a fast tech 2 correctly, marines and a hero won't be enough. I do believe the way to slow it down is to fight for power on the map and attack with flamers and marines very aggressively and early enough. But I still need to do some testing with squidward to see.
I think a lot of people are missing the real reason why quick tech hogs works so well. It's not that it's unstoppable. On the contrary, while playing against a friend using my regular build, I found it incredibly easy to stop him by attacking at 3 minutes with flamers. But to do so requires going barracks 3rd and 4th and the foreknowledge that your opponent will rush. Scouting at 2 minutes is far too late. By the time it is economically feasible to scout a quick teching opponent, it's usually much too late. Playing a "regular" opening where you build a decent eco, take some nodes, and harass minis simply won't work against a quick tech hog rush. By the time you get to the base they would already be double/triple pumping hogs. I can't tell you how many Spartan+Marines openers I've run over with a dozen hogs because they're just not used to having to attack earlier than they're used to. And that's the big issue. No one is ever ready to attack at 3 minutes. And if they have anti infantry turrets up, I don't think anyone other than Forge (or broken leaders) stands a chance.
Would adding some Power Cost to Warthogs be any help to the problem?

If the Power Cost for Warthogs went from 0 to maybe 50 or 75, would that put them more in line with their effectiveness? Cuz right now it seems that AV units are too costly and not effective enough, whilst the guy making hogs can use his Power for Global Upgrades.. By increasing theWarthog power maybe that will slow them from getting Vehicle Upgrades or Gauss as fast.
jalam wrote:
Would adding some Power Cost to Warthogs be any help to the problem?

If the Power Cost for Warthogs went from 0 to maybe 50 or 75, would that put them more in line with their effectiveness? Cuz right now it seems that AV units are too costly and not effective enough, whilst the guy making hogs can use his Power for Global Upgrades.. By increasing theWarthog power maybe that will slow them from getting Vehicle Upgrades or Gauss as fast.
A cost increase maybe, but not power. Maybe bumping their cost up to 300 supplies? AV just needs to be more effective against T2 vehicles, give them a bit more health, or damage resistance from T2 vehicles. A slight reduction in power cost would help as well.
I lost to a quick hog rush earlier, I scouted and saw they were doing it but I couldn't build enough to counter it. Maybe if I had quick rushed to tech 2 aswell but then what's the point in having tech 1 units in the game. Just felt like they could get to tech 2 ridiculously quickly. Is there any kind of case for making tech 2 take longer to reach. Extend the build time for the upgrade significantly, maybe? Drop av to tech 1, so you can build some ready if you can see them booming to t2. It seems that every solution to counter it, be it upgraded marines, av counters etc requires amounts of power, slowing your expansion whilst they only have to put power into the singl tech upgrade.
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