Forums / Games / Halo Wars 2

Honestly 343 you listen to the community too much

OP nuchey

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nuchey wrote:
Marauders are only an issue WITH Thick Hide, otherwise they're another trash unit.

343 does a good job listening to the community, I really don't know what you're complaining about.
Because I find it odd how much this game has changed since day 1. Compare it to the few tweaks that HW1 had and it’s obvious that they listen to the community too often. Everyone complains about something until it gets nerfed into oblivion or buff too much. Marines, forgehog, yayap’s cannon fodder are all good examples of this.
Sometimes the community's view on balance can be even more important than the Dev's view though.
If the community is crying about something, something has to be done. Jeff Kaplan of the overwatch team says this all the time, and while he's a meme now, it can be compared here!
It matters because aspects of the game like Marauders might remain untouched by the community until they are "Touched" by the Devs. This might be good for a community standpoint, but it's like throwing out a perfectly good line of code!

This response is for this comment specifically, I haven't read your full article yet.
nuchey wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
nuchey wrote:
Marauders are only an issue WITH Thick Hide, otherwise they're another trash unit.

343 does a good job listening to the community, I really don't know what you're complaining about.
Because I find it odd how much this game has changed since day 1. Compare it to the few tweaks that HW1 had and it’s obvious that they listen to the community too often. Everyone complains about something until it gets nerfed into oblivion or buff too much. Marines, forgehog, yayap’s cannon fodder are all good examples of this.
Halo Wars 1 has no balance and is fundamentally broken in term of multiplayer. This game is 100x more playable because they have listened to the community on how to improve their game.
Lol HW1 is broken? What are you on can I have some?
HW1 is very far from balanced.
nuchey wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
nuchey wrote:
Marauders are only an issue WITH Thick Hide, otherwise they're another trash unit.

343 does a good job listening to the community, I really don't know what you're complaining about.
Because I find it odd how much this game has changed since day 1. Compare it to the few tweaks that HW1 had and it’s obvious that they listen to the community too often. Everyone complains about something until it gets nerfed into oblivion or buff too much. Marines, forgehog, yayap’s cannon fodder are all good examples of this.
Halo Wars 1 has no balance and is fundamentally broken in term of multiplayer. This game is 100x more playable because they have listened to the community on how to improve their game.
Lol HW1 is broken? What are you on can I have some?
HW1 is very far from balanced.
hw1 is balanced for what it is. every unit in that game can be used to win. its just gauss hogs and tanks are able to be used in more situations than other units. units like grunts or marines can be used to win high level games in 3s. but you will never see grunts in 2s since u don't need a hall to take hooks as covy. I can go on about how every unit in hw1 is viable. the only problem with hw1 is the diminishing returns and some unbalanced maps.
hw2 has taken the approach of you must build this unit if you wanna do base damage, build this unit to kill air/vehicle. wanna counter hellbringer/goliaths or jumppack brutes sorry scouts don't kill anything fast enough you have to build sniper/suicide grunts. which don't hurt buildings so good luck getting an eco lead with all the power you had to spend. Not to mention those units don't transition into the mid game very well.
anyways what I was getting at is more stuff is suppose to be better than the right stuff. if I go 40 elite rangers with 90k supplies and power to keep reinforcing I should kill 1 condor.
I guess we have to wait on hw3 for the early game to be fixed.
IxJeddeyxI wrote:
nuchey wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
nuchey wrote:
Marauders are only an issue WITH Thick Hide, otherwise they're another trash unit.

343 does a good job listening to the community, I really don't know what you're complaining about.
Because I find it odd how much this game has changed since day 1. Compare it to the few tweaks that HW1 had and it’s obvious that they listen to the community too often. Everyone complains about something until it gets nerfed into oblivion or buff too much. Marines, forgehog, yayap’s cannon fodder are all good examples of this.
Halo Wars 1 has no balance and is fundamentally broken in term of multiplayer. This game is 100x more playable because they have listened to the community on how to improve their game.
Lol HW1 is broken? What are you on can I have some?
HW1 is very far from balanced.
hw1 is balanced for what it is. every unit in that game can be used to win. its just gauss hogs and tanks are able to be used in more situations than other units. units like grunts or marines can be used to win high level games in 3s. but you will never see grunts in 2s since u don't need a hall to take hooks as covy. I can go on about how every unit in hw1 is viable. the only problem with hw1 is the diminishing returns and some unbalanced maps.
hw2 has taken the approach of you must build this unit if you wanna do base damage, build this unit to kill air/vehicle. wanna counter hellbringer/goliaths or jumppack brutes sorry scouts don't kill anything fast enough you have to build sniper/suicide grunts. which don't hurt buildings so good luck getting an eco lead with all the power you had to spend. Not to mention those units don't transition into the mid game very well.
anyways what I was getting at is more stuff is suppose to be better than the right stuff. if I go 40 elite rangers with 90k supplies and power to keep reinforcing I should kill 1 condor.
I guess we have to wait on hw3 for the early game to be fixed.
Can we seriously drop the "HW1 was balanced" narrative? I honestly think that anyone who played the game a decent amount can see that there were only a few things that could be done in a standard high level game. HW2 is superior in pretty much every way as far as balance goes. Yes, there have been AWFUL patches in this game's short lifespan, but the frequent balance changes have been absolutely necessary and make this game a much more balanced RTS than its predecessor.
Solid HW wrote:
IxJeddeyxI wrote:
nuchey wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
nuchey wrote:
Marauders are only an issue WITH Thick Hide, otherwise they're another trash unit.

343 does a good job listening to the community, I really don't know what you're complaining about.
Because I find it odd how much this game has changed since day 1. Compare it to the few tweaks that HW1 had and it’s obvious that they listen to the community too often. Everyone complains about something until it gets nerfed into oblivion or buff too much. Marines, forgehog, yayap’s cannon fodder are all good examples of this.
Halo Wars 1 has no balance and is fundamentally broken in term of multiplayer. This game is 100x more playable because they have listened to the community on how to improve their game.
Lol HW1 is broken? What are you on can I have some?
HW1 is very far from balanced.
hw1 is balanced for what it is. every unit in that game can be used to win. its just gauss hogs and tanks are able to be used in more situations than other units. units like grunts or marines can be used to win high level games in 3s. but you will never see grunts in 2s since u don't need a hall to take hooks as covy. I can go on about how every unit in hw1 is viable. the only problem with hw1 is the diminishing returns and some unbalanced maps.
hw2 has taken the approach of you must build this unit if you wanna do base damage, build this unit to kill air/vehicle. wanna counter hellbringer/goliaths or jumppack brutes sorry scouts don't kill anything fast enough you have to build sniper/suicide grunts. which don't hurt buildings so good luck getting an eco lead with all the power you had to spend. Not to mention those units don't transition into the mid game very well.
anyways what I was getting at is more stuff is suppose to be better than the right stuff. if I go 40 elite rangers with 90k supplies and power to keep reinforcing I should kill 1 condor.
I guess we have to wait on hw3 for the early game to be fixed.
Can we seriously drop the "HW1 was balanced" narrative? I honestly think that anyone who played the game a decent amount can see that there were only a few things that could be done in a standard high level game. HW2 is superior in pretty much every way as far as balance goes. Yes, there have been AWFUL patches in this game's short lifespan, but the frequent balance changes have been absolutely necessary and make this game a much more balanced RTS than its predecessor.
no I'm not going to drop that hw1 is not balanced. if you played the game more than a decent amount you would know that in hw1 you can do multiple different strats at a high level. its just some people think their strats are the only way to play. I get that hw2 is a different game but not everyone understands that. almost everyone that played hw1 at a high level didn't even touch hw2 bc of the beta. Ive tried to get my friends to play it but its still trash no matter how balanced the game gets.
I believe they were closer to balancing when the leaders were all worth using at T1. Right now everyone is using all air, which is cheap to build and requires no power. It does feel like a a 1 to 1 ratio anti air to air. Getting closer but need some fine tuning.
nuchey wrote:
Title says it all. I think we all appreciate that you take our feedback and actually use it; but there is a fine line between using feedback and catering. Look at Marauders; they are downright broken. People have been complaining about how "weak" marauders are from launch. I personally thought they were fine once you changed them to a 4 population vehicle instead of 5. Now look at them, with boundless fury and boundless siphon they can beat anything. Literally anything! They have 11 health bars with thick hide. It's very strange to me that this is even a thing.

Don't you guys have the resources to test your own game and see when units are broken? I can let it slide for DLC characters but these are core units of the game that need major tweaking. Anti Air is still garbo against Air, haven't you all noticed that AA naturally focus fires yet? They need to be adjusted to not do that.

I think little changes are good here and there but the gameplay of Halo Wars 2 in my opinion has been a rollercoaster. I don't even want to think about the season that was Forehog 300%...

I get that there is a Catch 22 with this in that if you listen to me you'll be listening to a fan but please just tweak the game and let it be. I can't handle all these changes every 3-6 weeks. I mean there are so many times in the course of this game that you made a change (like with marines) and then almost immediately reverted that change. It makes us think you have no idea what you're doing; which I don't think is true, that's just how it looks. I think you're simply taking too much feedback from the fans. I like when you make changes based on the feedback you get from the game stats. Like when you realized that not as many people found Isabel viable and you fixed it! Now shes viable, make changes like that.

I understand it must be very hard to balance a game with 16 leaders but I think we're all sensing one last big patch by the end of the month and I'm a bit worried you all will make too many changes. Just make a few changes we really don't need anything drastic. Anti, Marauders, and OP Voridus are the only changes you really need to make.

TLDNR; your critics will always be the loudest voices you hear; that doesn't mean you should always listen to them. Remember after Halo 4 people were all whiny that things were changed and that made 343 change the storyline they had planned for Halo 5 because they were unsure what to do? Yeah I 'member and that was bogus. At the end of the day do what you want to do with your games and don't rely so heavily on fan input.
I can't say that I have ever heard someone say to a developer to stop listening. This truly is a 1st in a forums from what I have read over the past decade when talking towards a developer.

The saying that "you can't make everyone happy" will always hold true it seems.

But it gave me a chuckle that after you condemn 343 for tweaking and adjusting the game since launch where you say, "Stop listening to us" but on the other hand "Anti, Marauders, and OP Voridus" are the things YOU want fixed and call out.

Can't have it both ways dude.
nuchey wrote:
Title says it all. I think we all appreciate that you take our feedback and actually use it; but there is a fine line between using feedback and catering. Look at Marauders; they are downright broken. People have been complaining about how "weak" marauders are from launch. I personally thought they were fine once you changed them to a 4 population vehicle instead of 5. Now look at them, with boundless fury and boundless siphon they can beat anything. Literally anything! They have 11 health bars with thick hide. It's very strange to me that this is even a thing.

Don't you guys have the resources to test your own game and see when units are broken? I can let it slide for DLC characters but these are core units of the game that need major tweaking. Anti Air is still garbo against Air, haven't you all noticed that AA naturally focus fires yet? They need to be adjusted to not do that.

I think little changes are good here and there but the gameplay of Halo Wars 2 in my opinion has been a rollercoaster. I don't even want to think about the season that was Forehog 300%...

I get that there is a Catch 22 with this in that if you listen to me you'll be listening to a fan but please just tweak the game and let it be. I can't handle all these changes every 3-6 weeks. I mean there are so many times in the course of this game that you made a change (like with marines) and then almost immediately reverted that change. It makes us think you have no idea what you're doing; which I don't think is true, that's just how it looks. I think you're simply taking too much feedback from the fans. I like when you make changes based on the feedback you get from the game stats. Like when you realized that not as many people found Isabel viable and you fixed it! Now shes viable, make changes like that.

I understand it must be very hard to balance a game with 16 leaders but I think we're all sensing one last big patch by the end of the month and I'm a bit worried you all will make too many changes. Just make a few changes we really don't need anything drastic. Anti, Marauders, and OP Voridus are the only changes you really need to make.

TLDNR; your critics will always be the loudest voices you hear; that doesn't mean you should always listen to them. Remember after Halo 4 people were all whiny that things were changed and that made 343 change the storyline they had planned for Halo 5 because they were unsure what to do? Yeah I 'member and that was bogus. At the end of the day do what you want to do with your games and don't rely so heavily on fan input.
I can't say that I have ever heard someone say to a developer to stop listening. This truly is a 1st in a forums from what I have read over the past decade when talking towards a developer.

The saying that "you can't make everyone happy" will always hold true it seems.

But it gave me a chuckle that after you condemn 343 for tweaking and adjusting the game since launch where you say, "Stop listening to us" but on the other hand "Anti, Marauders, and OP Voridus" are the things YOU want fixed and call out.

Can't have it both ways dude.
Holy cow can you people read. I said there is a fine line between listening to feedback and catering. I never said to stop listening. Learn. To. Read.
I feel like marauders are tougher than wraiths right now, health-wise.
Lol at the fact that the balance update is exactly what I called it would be. 343 reverting "balance changes" they've made in the past: Cannon fodder resource gather speed revert, colossus & grizzly heal rate reverted. It's like I said, they just throw a bunch of balance changes at us and see what sticks. Balancing a game shouldn't come primarily from the forums. Forum feedback is important but the changes made to the meta should directly reflect in game player feedback.
nuchey wrote:
Lol at the fact that the balance update is exactly what I called it would be. 343 reverting "balance changes" they've made in the past: Cannon fodder resource gather speed revert, colossus & grizzly heal rate reverted. It's like I said, they just throw a bunch of balance changes at us and see what sticks. Balancing a game shouldn't come primarily from the forums. Forum feedback is important but the changes made to the meta should directly reflect in game player feedback.
They aren't completely reverting the changes, just dialing them back and adjusting them.

Which, you know, is part of balancing
nuchey wrote:
Lol at the fact that the balance update is exactly what I called it would be. 343 reverting "balance changes" they've made in the past: Cannon fodder resource gather speed revert, colossus & grizzly heal rate reverted. It's like I said, they just throw a bunch of balance changes at us and see what sticks. Balancing a game shouldn't come primarily from the forums. Forum feedback is important but the changes made to the meta should directly reflect in game player feedback.
They aren't completely reverting the changes, just dialing them back and adjusting them.

Which, you know, is part of balancing
Yes, they want a balanced game as much as we do. They are doing their best and it will keep getting better and better just as long no new leaders are introduced.
nuchey wrote:
Lol at the fact that the balance update is exactly what I called it would be. 343 reverting "balance changes" they've made in the past: Cannon fodder resource gather speed revert, colossus & grizzly heal rate reverted. It's like I said, they just throw a bunch of balance changes at us and see what sticks. Balancing a game shouldn't come primarily from the forums. Forum feedback is important but the changes made to the meta should directly reflect in game player feedback.
They aren't completely reverting the changes, just dialing them back and adjusting them.

Which, you know, is part of balancing
Yes but these "balance changes" went out back when YapYap dropped which was a long time ago. I have friends who use to love this game that never play it anymore because of the long patches of time that go by between updates. As I said before in this thread, I get that it's hard to balance a game with this many leaders but it's kinda obvious 343 just throws some drastic changes at us, sees what sticks, then reverts some of those changes. Rinse repeat.
nuchey wrote:
THEWALL766 wrote:
nuchey wrote:
Marauders are only an issue WITH Thick Hide, otherwise they're another trash unit.

343 does a good job listening to the community, I really don't know what you're complaining about.
Because I find it odd how much this game has changed since day 1. Compare it to the few tweaks that HW1 had and it’s obvious that they listen to the community too often. Everyone complains about something until it gets nerfed into oblivion or buff too much. Marines, forgehog, yayap’s cannon fodder are all good examples of this.
Halo Wars 1 has no balance and is fundamentally broken in term of multiplayer. This game is 100x more playable because they have listened to the community on how to improve their game.
Lol HW1 is broken? What are you on can I have some?
It is true. A good Anders for example beat everyone with her gremlins and advanced economy with Warhog rush.
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