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[Locked] How do I beat Siege Turret turtles

OP XavieroftheWind

OP 7/12/2018

XavieroftheWind

Recruit - Gold

Title says it all. Send help. It feels like I need a weapon to surpass metal gear but anything I build is artillery crushed to dust while I fight the enemy army when I attack.

Sure I can let them attack first and then counter, but then my leftover units from the skirmish are getting demolished while they easily reinforce.

By the way, I main banished, so I cant do the same to my enemies.

This is so sad, can we nerf siege turret damage? Thx

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7/12/2018

BreezyStarfish1

ODST - Onyx

Pray.

But besides that, Shrouds are okay because they will shoot down the siege shells. Besides that Banshees do well. If they end up having several Wolverines near their turrets you'll probably need to use Teleport to get close enough to destroy them.

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7/12/2018

EiTeNeR

Marine - Bronze

Yeah siege turrets are pretty dumb. Almost as dumb as cloak towers, which is almost as dumb as having so many units with detect, which makes shrouds pretty dumb.

This siege turret cost escalation isn't really going to help the issue. Currently siege turrets have more range than kodiaks. Personally I would greatly reduce siege turret range and AOE. And completely remove camo towers.

;ojhvsljbf
] cjbdzv'skhx
sakn

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OP 7/12/2018

XavieroftheWind

Recruit - Gold

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post inappropriate content.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Spoiler:

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7/12/2018

Flame Pieman

Marine - Iron

Soooooo, many leaders just cannot deal with an Anders on sentry. I cry every time I see one. Siege turrets are far too good on that map but wait, there's more, the leader who has the best Spartan in the game also has the best air in the game and shielded turrets and the best drive turrets in the game.

The map design just amplifies all the bs in this game. Ohh you have a hero who you basically can't kill as banished (HC) well don't worry we are just going to give him a garrison right outside your base for him to sit in (bedrock/rift). Ohh siege turrets are stupid strong and have range as far as you can see well have sentry badlands and bedrock so that air is the only viable option. They need to slap some major nerfs on many things, hero shields firstly are ridiculous to deal with as banished, hornets are better than banshees so late game banished just has a terrible time dealing with seige turrets and a hornet/wolve build.

Basically if your match is going past 15-20 minutes do not expect any form of balance, tons of leaders just tail off hard while some shine till they have all of their leader powers. Almost all games between "top" ones players do not get that far which means most of the problems aren't really noticed or not given any sign of priority (look at sentinels the change to 4 pop has been suggested for months and instead of doing that months ago allowing them to be tuned to be balanced it's taken to now for that change to happen.) Imo if you are in a game where you are map/leader screwed just recycle your base unless you enjoy fighting a huge uphill battle. Ranks means absolutely nothing so If you play the game for fun just resign and move and on.

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7/12/2018

wildoo

Recruit - Bronze

Well, siege turrets need visibility so you need to control the map.Also, they’re pretty expensive and take a little while to unlock.

If you keep sending squishy infantry/scouts into artillery, that’s a recipe for defeat. Each siege turret = one less anti-air turret. Use your air or cloaked units to pave the way for the rest of your army.

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7/12/2018

Flame Pieman

Marine - Iron

Devi, arby, Atriox, colony, shoppy will probably be alright Vs seige either cause of passives, actives or teleport but I would say leaders like pav, vori and yap are probably going to struggle the most. Yap might be fine super late game cause of pdsm 2 and all his actives but idk I haven't really seen many yaps super late game to be able to call it. Your best bet will always be try and take as much of the map as you can (especially bases for dat eco) and then you're basically going to be requiring switching into different builds say mass air into mass locusts + tele and trying to overwheal your opponent.

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7/12/2018

DHG strongdog

Marine - Silver

wildoo wrote:
Well, siege turrets need visibility so you need to control the map.Also, they’re pretty expensive and take a little while to unlock.

If you keep sending squishy infantry/scouts into artillery, that’s a recipe for defeat. Each siege turret = one less anti-air turret. Use your air or cloaked units to pave the way for the rest of your army.

Map control for seige?! Dont make me laugh. Seige is OP asf*** , especially against banished. Map control is icing on the cake but as soon as you get line of sight on their army, your are killing it half way across the map with 0 pop; "But Banished have shrouds". This is quite true but shrouds are not 0 pop, are not fighters, and AA and Marines Mop them up. Unless you pavium, you dont see 0 pop blast blasting your army across the map which requires no skill to do. Banished do have Blisterbacks but the are the worst T3 in the history of halo, less range, less AoE, T3, and flight mode sucks. Bottom line, Seige is complete Bolognium and Anders makes this a nightmare.

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7/13/2018

GracieProject

Marine - Onyx

EiTeNeR wrote:
Yeah siege turrets are pretty dumb. Almost as dumb as cloak towers, which is almost as dumb as having so many units with detect, which makes shrouds pretty dumb.

This siege turret cost escalation isn't really going to help the issue. Currently siege turrets have more range than kodiaks. Personally I would greatly reduce siege turret range and AOE. And completely remove camo towers.

;ojhvsljbf
] cjbdzv'skhx
sakn

Your not using shrouds for the cloak. Sturrets have more range because they can’t move.

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7/13/2018

Ansi Tanom

Recruit - Onyx

DHG strongdog wrote:
wildoo wrote:
Well, siege turrets need visibility so you need to control the map.Also, they’re pretty expensive and take a little while to unlock.

If you keep sending squishy infantry/scouts into artillery, that’s a recipe for defeat. Each siege turret = one less anti-air turret. Use your air or cloaked units to pave the way for the rest of your army.
Map control for seige?! Dont make me laugh. Seige is OP asf*** , especially against banished. Map control is icing on the cake but as soon as you get line of sight on their army, your are killing it half way across the map with 0 pop; "But Banished have shrouds". This is quite true but shrouds are not 0 pop, are not fighters, and AA and Marines Mop them up. Unless you pavium, you dont see 0 pop blast blasting your army across the map which requires no skill to do. Banished do have Blisterbacks but the are the worst T3 in the history of halo, less range, less AoE, T3, and flight mode sucks. Bottom line, Seige is complete Bolognium and Anders makes this a nightmare.

Mostly agree with this, I think shrouds need a buff or need to be cheaper. They are not worth 400 supplies, a Wraith costs 550 and that's a T3 mainline tank. Blisterbacks I'd say aren't terrible but they probably are the worst T3 unit. I think they do more damage than a Kodiak when all the missiles hit which I think makes up for the less AOE a bit, but the fact they have less range then the T2 Kodiak doesn't make sense to me. I guess the logic is that they are easier to set up since they fly so you can get a good position much easier than a Kodiak but I find that rarely when I do use them does it provide even close to as much an advantage as being able to slap it down and leave it somewhere to fire on a third of the map. On top of their pop cost being double that of a Kodiak means even if you set a few up your army is significantly smaller than a UNSC player using artillery. I don't think the flight mode is bad though, their damage while flying is still pretty significant so they aren't useless while undeployed like the Kodiak.

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7/13/2018

DHG strongdog

Marine - Silver

Ansi Tanom wrote:
DHG strongdog wrote:
wildoo wrote:
Well, siege turrets need visibility so you need to control the map.Also, they’re pretty expensive and take a little while to unlock.

If you keep sending squishy infantry/scouts into artillery, that’s a recipe for defeat. Each siege turret = one less anti-air turret. Use your air or cloaked units to pave the way for the rest of your army.
Map control for seige?! Dont make me laugh. Seige is OP asf*** , especially against banished. Map control is icing on the cake but as soon as you get line of sight on their army, your are killing it half way across the map with 0 pop; "But Banished have shrouds". This is quite true but shrouds are not 0 pop, are not fighters, and AA and Marines Mop them up. Unless you pavium, you dont see 0 pop blast blasting your army across the map which requires no skill to do. Banished do have Blisterbacks but the are the worst T3 in the history of halo, less range, less AoE, T3, and flight mode sucks. Bottom line, Seige is complete Bolognium and Anders makes this a nightmare.
Mostly agree with this, I think shrouds need a buff or need to be cheaper. They are not worth 400 supplies, a Wraith costs 550 and that's a T3 mainline tank. Blisterbacks I'd say aren't terrible but they probably are the worst T3 unit. I think they do more damage than a Kodiak when all the missiles hit which I think makes up for the less AOE a bit, but the fact they have less range then the T2 Kodiak doesn't make sense to me. I guess the logic is that they are easier to set up since they fly so you can get a good position much easier than a Kodiak but I find that rarely when I do use them does it provide even close to as much an advantage as being able to slap it down and leave it somewhere to fire on a third of the map. On top of their pop cost being double that of a Kodiak means even if you set a few up your army is significantly smaller than a UNSC player using artillery. I don't think the flight mode is bad though, their damage while flying is still pretty significant so they aren't useless while undeployed like the Kodiak.

I find Blisters extra mobility should not be the alternative for doing less range, being T3, and less AoE. I even forgot Blisters have a higher pop than Kodiaks. It really kills Banished potential to Artillery. Hell, Kodiaks are super slow but Forge gets a bada** kodiaks drop with vet even and Anders gets sents which are awsome with already awsome artillery. Voridus, like Anders, has a LP for Blisters but they still hardly compete vs Kodiaks let alone Seige. As awsome as Kodiaks are, i like where they are but seige is insanum and Blisters are incapable to compete. If i had my way, Seige would be removed from the game. I understand why Kodiaks are better but Blisterbacks need love nonertheless.

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OP 7/13/2018

XavieroftheWind

Recruit - Gold

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post inappropriate content.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Spoiler:

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7/13/2018

Ansi Tanom

Recruit - Onyx

DHG strongdog wrote:
Ansi Tanom wrote:
DHG strongdog wrote:
wildoo wrote:
Well, siege turrets need visibility so you need to control the map.Also, they’re pretty expensive and take a little while to unlock.

If you keep sending squishy infantry/scouts into artillery, that’s a recipe for defeat. Each siege turret = one less anti-air turret. Use your air or cloaked units to pave the way for the rest of your army.
Map control for seige?! Dont make me laugh. Seige is OP asf*** , especially against banished. Map control is icing on the cake but as soon as you get line of sight on their army, your are killing it half way across the map with 0 pop; "But Banished have shrouds". This is quite true but shrouds are not 0 pop, are not fighters, and AA and Marines Mop them up. Unless you pavium, you dont see 0 pop blast blasting your army across the map which requires no skill to do. Banished do have Blisterbacks but the are the worst T3 in the history of halo, less range, less AoE, T3, and flight mode sucks. Bottom line, Seige is complete Bolognium and Anders makes this a nightmare.
Mostly agree with this, I think shrouds need a buff or need to be cheaper. They are not worth 400 supplies, a Wraith costs 550 and that's a T3 mainline tank. Blisterbacks I'd say aren't terrible but they probably are the worst T3 unit. I think they do more damage than a Kodiak when all the missiles hit which I think makes up for the less AOE a bit, but the fact they have less range then the T2 Kodiak doesn't make sense to me. I guess the logic is that they are easier to set up since they fly so you can get a good position much easier than a Kodiak but I find that rarely when I do use them does it provide even close to as much an advantage as being able to slap it down and leave it somewhere to fire on a third of the map. On top of their pop cost being double that of a Kodiak means even if you set a few up your army is significantly smaller than a UNSC player using artillery. I don't think the flight mode is bad though, their damage while flying is still pretty significant so they aren't useless while undeployed like the Kodiak.
I find Blisters extra mobility should not be the alternative for doing less range, being, T3, and less AoE. I even forgot Blisters have a higher pop than Kodiaks. It really kills Banished potential to Artillery. Hell, Kodiaks are super slow but Forge gets a bada** kodiaks drop with vet even and Anders gets sents which are awsome with already awsome artillery. Voridus like Anders has a LP for Blisters but they are still hardly compete vs Kodiaks let alone Seige. As awsome as Kodiaks are, i like where there are but seige is insanum and Blisters are incapable to compete.

Personally I don't have an issue with the smaller AOE since they do higher damage per salvo, I think it a good tradeoff, but the less range I agree does not make sense. They should have at least equal range since you can only field so few of them due to the high pop so they can actually support engagements or start sieges on enemy bases. But at the same time I don't know if I want them to be super good like Kodiaks because I hate fighting siege turtles. It's so obscenely hard to push a siege turtle base while the defender has to do next to nothing while the attacker's forces get wiped. Then it's just a simple counter push while all the attacker's units are dead or too weak. Even if they don't end the game they could take out a secondary base and it just snowballs because the attacker's economy is in shambles and will never retake that base, especially if the defender creeps the Kodiaks forward.

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7/13/2018

DHG strongdog

Marine - Silver

Ansi Tanom wrote:
DHG strongdog wrote:
Ansi Tanom wrote:
DHG strongdog wrote:
wildoo wrote:
Well, siege turrets need visibility so you need to control the map.Also, they’re pretty expensive and take a little while to unlock.

If you keep sending squishy infantry/scouts into artillery, that’s a recipe for defeat. Each siege turret = one less anti-air turret. Use your air or cloaked units to pave the way for the rest of your army.
Map control for seige?! Dont make me laugh. Seige is OP asf*** , especially against banished. Map control is icing on the cake but as soon as you get line of sight on their army, your are killing it half way across the map with 0 pop; "But Banished have shrouds". This is quite true but shrouds are not 0 pop, are not fighters, and AA and Marines Mop them up. Unless you pavium, you dont see 0 pop blast blasting your army across the map which requires no skill to do. Banished do have Blisterbacks but the are the worst T3 in the history of halo, less range, less AoE, T3, and flight mode sucks. Bottom line, Seige is complete Bolognium and Anders makes this a nightmare.
Mostly agree with this, I think shrouds need a buff or need to be cheaper. They are not worth 400 supplies, a Wraith costs 550 and that's a T3 mainline tank. Blisterbacks I'd say aren't terrible but they probably are the worst T3 unit. I think they do more damage than a Kodiak when all the missiles hit which I think makes up for the less AOE a bit, but the fact they have less range then the T2 Kodiak doesn't make sense to me. I guess the logic is that they are easier to set up since they fly so you can get a good position much easier than a Kodiak but I find that rarely when I do use them does it provide even close to as much an advantage as being able to slap it down and leave it somewhere to fire on a third of the map. On top of their pop cost being double that of a Kodiak means even if you set a few up your army is significantly smaller than a UNSC player using artillery. I don't think the flight mode is bad though, their damage while flying is still pretty significant so they aren't useless while undeployed like the Kodiak.
I find Blisters extra mobility should not be the alternative for doing less range, being, T3, and less AoE. I even forgot Blisters have a higher pop than Kodiaks. It really kills Banished potential to Artillery. Hell, Kodiaks are super slow but Forge gets a bada** kodiaks drop with vet even and Anders gets sents which are awsome with already awsome artillery. Voridus like Anders has a LP for Blisters but they are still hardly compete vs Kodiaks let alone Seige. As awsome as Kodiaks are, i like where there are but seige is insanum and Blisters are incapable to compete.
Personally I don't have an issue with the smaller AOE since they do higher damage per salvo, I think it a good tradeoff, but the less range I agree does not make sense. They should have at least equal range since you can only field so few of them due to the high pop so they can actually support engagements or start sieges on enemy bases. But at the same time I don't know if I want them to be super good like Kodiaks because I hate fighting siege turtles. It's so obscenely hard to push a siege turtle base while the defender has to do next to nothing while the attacker's forces get wiped. Then it's just a simple counter push while all the attacker's units are dead or too weak. Even if they don't end the game they could take out a secondary base and it just snowballs because the attacker's economy is in shambles and will never retake that base, especially if the defender creeps the Kodiaks forward.

Agree, i don't want Blisters to be as good as Kodiaks as they should be better. But when Seige comes into play with Kodiaks and Kodiaks are much better than Blisterbacks, it really demands for something to be done.

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OP 7/13/2018

XavieroftheWind

Recruit - Gold

I'm surprised you guys are so vocal about this. I haven't seen a peep about Siege Turrets in the longest time. But UNSC turrets are nearly unbeatable as a result. A simple set up of these turrets invalidates the possibility of using locusts or infantry while banished gets no such thing.

From what I see here it looks like the best options are to completely nerf the 0 pop damage siege turrets provide at obscene ranges by a substantial amount (25+ is fine because it IS 0 pop extreme damage at great range allowing you to control your opponent and railroad them into certain units getting built only) Or to buff shrouds in health (pleeeeease they're mostly trash support units that do no damage) and how often their defense ability can trigger.

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7/13/2018

Ansi Tanom

Recruit - Onyx

XavieroftheWind wrote:
I'm surprised you guys are so vocal about this. I haven't seen a peep about Siege Turrets in the longest time. But UNSC turrets are nearly unbeatable as a result. A simple set up of these turrets invalidates the possibility of using locusts or infantry while banished gets no such thing.

From what I see here it looks like the best options are to completely nerf the 0 pop damage siege turrets provide at obscene ranges by a substantial amount (25+ is fine because it IS 0 pop extreme damage at great range allowing you to control your opponent and railroad them into certain units getting built only) Or to buff shrouds in health (pleeeeease they're mostly trash support units that do no damage) and how often their defense ability can trigger.

I'm mostly waiting for the next patch so I can alter my opinions if necessary, the escalating cost may be significant enough to make it too expensive to field multiple siege turrets depending on how much the cost increases per turret. Though the cost will only really hurt the UNSC if the turrets are able to be destroyed so they need to be rebuilt, so I still have my reservations. Shrouds as I said before absolutely need either a buff or cost reduction, since the buff to detect range on units that have it cloak has been toned down and with the number of units that have detect it's unlikely you won't have at least one of those unit types in your army, making the Shroud ability useless in most cases. If I had to think of a buff for shrouds I'd say increase the range of their point defense laser so it can properly cover an army as when the shrouds are hovering above the center of an army an artillery shell can still usually hit the front unit and the splash will damage into the some behind it. Maybe decrease the cooldown on the PD lasers slightly as well so as many aren't required for dealing with large numbers of Kodiaks/siege turrets.

I think the main reason people aren't saying much about artillery is because Banished overall have higher win rates currently so nerfing UNSC in any way will just make them dominate more. Once the UNSC are closer to Banished win rates I hope this will be addressed.

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