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How to balance the game

OP CarsandCameras

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The game isn't in a great spot balance-wise. The MM fix is cool, but there are still long standing issues that were never addressed in regards to balance. I'll go leader by leader and say what it is I want to see change. Pretty sure I've done this before, so I might be repeating a few things. I'll sort the leaders to most broken to most underpowered.

Decimus-

  • First off, take boundless siphon off of the Warlord. He really never should've gotten it back, and after a few months with it back it's obviously ridiculous.
  • Decimus drop is another issue. The fact that he can drop down and nuke an army is just too much taking into account that as a unit he is extremely strong and the nuke has little to no counterplay. Put his Y ability on a cooldown upon dropping the unit.
  • Slightly nerf boundless siphon. This way, we can buff banshees (a terrible unit) while not making deci banshees (an op unit) ridiculous.
Forge-

  • Nerf Forgehog HP across the upgrades. He's nothing like he was previously, but he's still crazy hard to kill, especially at T3.
  • Increase vehicle drop cooldown. For what it gives you, the vehicle drop comes back far too quickly.
Anders-

  • Nerf the effectiveness of R&D and R&D 2 by 25%. That means both upgrade research cost and time. This is the very core of Anders, so it shouldn't be hit too hard, but no one can doubt how effective the power is as of now.
  • Cut 100 power off of Ark Defense. It's really not worth 300/200, and players very often get heal or turret drop instead.
  • Nerf sentinel beacon. This power is the most blatantly broken part of Anders. Beacon Kodiaks plus Wingmen Hornets doesn't have a good counter as of now.
  • Give the Retriever Sentinel plus 1 speed back. This thing needs to be able to outrun a beam, because otherwise a 2000/2000 unit dies to one leader power.
Jerome-

  • Nerf hero damage. Jerome as a unit is insane and refuses to die on tech 1 unless you've got Choppers to ram down the mantis (which isn't very cost efficient). UNSC just have to hope they have a good enough hero to compete with him.
  • Reduce Enduring Salvo's damage to buildings. More than half the time I use this power, I'm dropping it on a base. 6 o'clocks really shouldn't be like that.
Colony-

  • Reduce heal duration. This heal is 2nd point, so it can be used very early and provides great sustainability to the already very tanky Hunter Captain and Goliaths. It just proves to be a bit much.
  • Increase Goliath build time. Yes, they're expensive for tech 1, but they're so tanky and deal so much damage to not only buildings but their own counters.
Atriox-

  • Slightly reduce Chosen's damage. He's almost as much of a hero killer as the Warlord, but he's so much more proficient in other areas. He's not half as sustainable as the Warlord, but a kiting Chosen is very strong right now.
Shipmaster-

  • Shipmaster's issue mostly stems from Beam 3 being too good. Across the board, nerf Beam 3.
Pavium-

  • Nerf Burnout at all levels.
Cutter-

  • Buff ODSTs. Cutter relies on ODST drop a lot, and right now while Cutter has a few favorable matchups, he doesn't really fit into the meta. He needs tools to end the game before the late game, where he quickly becomes the worst in the game.

Voridus-

  • Buff Grenadier damage against hero units. Voridus struggles a lot against leaders with good heroes in the early game. Grenadiers carry their weight against standard infantry, but not against heroes.
  • Make Infusion Tech buff Cataclysm. This is huge. Voridus has a very bad late game (I would say second worst next to Cutter) as a consequence of the lack of Cataclysm's potency after the enemy researches global upgrades. Remember, Cata is Vori's only nuke.
Kinsano-

  • Reduce Flamehog cost. Flamehogs are only good once they hit tech 3. Until then, you're paying more for less in comparison to normal Hogs.
  • Reduce Inferno damage against buildings. It's still too much. Anyone with eyes can recognize that.
Isabel-

  • Reduce the cost of Mac Blast. I really think Izzy has a lot of potential but is just overshadowed by Forge. Her late game is very strong, but she lacks the kick she once had in mid game with her OP Mac.
Yap Yap-

  • Increase Cannon Fodder gather rate. Last time this was buffed, Yap had a big spike in viability. Since the Brute Riders were hit with a nerf though, that viability has gone back down.
Arbiter-

  • Buff the Arbiter hero in tech 1. Only tech 1 though, he is already very strong in tech 2 and 3.
  • Buff Conduit of Rage 1. Arby has a great late game, but everything else is meh to bad. This would help a lot.
Johnson-

  • Buff hero. Johnson needs something to carry him into Colossus, and the most obvious thing to buff for this is Johnson himself, as the Mantis is already an effective unit.
  • Nerf Colossus range. Johnson is bad only because he often can't get to the point where he's fielding Colossus. Once they're out, they're undeniably OP.
Serina-

  • Buff Cryotroopers. They freeze stuff, they just don't do good damage.
  • Cut price of Frostravens. 100 power is way too much for what you get. Make it 50.
That's about it.
I want reworks to the UNSC kit so that their main play isn't sieging up until wingman hornets. Snipers need point splash to compete with banished squaded units and UNSC needs more abilities to push a base in T2 and break through a shield. Right now the rhythm of the game is very skewed toward sitting in your fortified base and building up either siege or counter units which makes for a tedious meta.
Yes to everything except yap buff and kinsano nerf. UNSC doesn’t need less base damage again especiallimg considering kinsano needs units to actually strip and heal and repair, engineer shielding and fortifications exists. It’s and ultimate, needs to be conscious threat. That and considering kinsano doesn’t do any other play style better than other UNSC (flamehogs-mediocre at best.) by that same logic eradication and cataclysm should also do less base damage.
yap needs a longer cooldown on most powers.
Unsc should have more base breaking potential not less.
Yes to everything except yap buff and kinsano nerf. UNSC doesn’t need less base damage again especiallimg considering kinsano needs units to actually strip and heal and repair, engineer shielding and fortifications exists. It’s and ultimate, needs to be conscious threat. That and considering kinsano doesn’t do any other play style better than other UNSC (flamehogs-mediocre at best.) by that same logic eradication and cataclysm should also do less base damage.
yap needs a longer cooldown on most powers.
Unsc should have more base breaking potential not less.
I disagree with inferno not getting nerfed to bases. She has lots of LPs to crack a base but Inferno is undeniably strong by Itself. It redbars every build and with a few drops, complete eco strip. Fortify does not help and a banished shield falls between 1 to 2 seconds. Im not going to argue yap though is he has the most mixed reviews but i will say his ability to use powers is almost infinite late game.
I agree with most of that. Also needed are further nerfs to Atriox's countermeasures brute mines as well as a major increase in recharge time or a nerf to Yap's Grunt Goblin Y ability heal. Also, scout vehicles need a buff against building killers
Forge hog is fine on Tech 1.
+1 Retriever speed is a bad change, it won't be able to outrun beams anyway, a better fix would be to reduce beam dmg vs ultimates.
Goliath build time is a good start, but there is more going on here. Grunts do more dps per cost than chopper vs light rush . Scouts suck at their job.
Odst are decent, I don't thinking I would like to see them buffed. There has to be a better approach to this.
Grenadiers could also do more dmg vs light armor.
I don't like the idea of infusion tech buffing cata, would be rather strong. The ability is kinda silly. It would be better if cata was just percentage based instead of pure damage based which would have avoided this issue entirely.
I think the bigger problem with Kinsano is just the tankiness of the hero for how fast she is. A cost increase to inferno and a hero nerf would probably be more justified.
I would not touch the gather rate of yapyap. I proved it was necessary the first time with math, but the math now is in yaps favor. He would benefit from choppers not being crap. And we should also look to nerf the T3 leader heals.
When it comes to arbiter, enforcers could also use some buffs on T1. The whole no dmg while moving thing is really detrimental.

All building killers should prioritize buildings.
My only suggestion, as usual, anti air needs splash damage. Base turrets, reavers and wolverines need splash damage to air to make them viable for a mixed army. 7-8 reavers is not enough to stop 40 deci banshees while forge runs in with grizzlies after deci pulls back flies accross the map and hits your allies base. Wingmen hornets and banshees are OP this way.. or bring vampires back from hw 1 😇
AKAtheFonz wrote:
My only suggestion, as usual, anti air needs splash damage. Base turrets, reavers and wolverines need splash damage to air to make them viable for a mixed army. 7-8 reavers is not enough to stop 40 deci banshees while forge runs in with grizzlies after deci pulls back flies accross the map and hits your allies base. Wingmen hornets and banshees are OP this way..
Reavers are already good units. Banshees are one of the worst units in the game. What makes them OP is boundless siphon, which I think should be nerfed. Wingman is still scary right now though.
Its not so much that they’re good its just that their versatility makes them one of the best units in the game. They counter both air and ground and can easily outrun reavers and wolverines. It makes defending bases almost impossible when backed by a forge and etc. the game is supposed to be about mixed armies, not maximizing damage with an air spam that costs no energy where the only somewhat counter is units that require too much energy. I shouldnt have to sacrifice 3/4 pop space and energy needed to stay in the game to build reavers just to counter air that will just keep swapping between bases
AKAtheFonz wrote:
Its not so much that they’re good its just that their versatility makes them one of the best units in the game. They counter both air and ground and can easily outrun reavers and wolverines. It makes defending bases almost impossible when backed by a forge and etc. the game is supposed to be about mixed armies, not maximizing damage with an air spam that costs no energy where the only somewhat counter is units that require too much energy. I shouldnt have to sacrifice 3/4 pop space and energy needed to stay in the game to build reavers just to counter air that will just keep swapping between bases
Banshees don't beat air, Wingmen hornets beat them. UNSC AA turrets are OP, so defending vs banshees isn't hard. Wolvs can chase don't Banshees fine and Reavers can jump across terrain to fire on them. Banshees are very expensive for what they do. Reavers on the other hand are very effective.

Also, Vampires are my trigger pls don't -Yoinking!- bring them up for the love of god.
Lol why do you hate vampires 😂. But idk. From what i’ve seen any good player, especially deci, who knows how to use their banshees becomes a serious problem mid/late game. IMO, its just too much effort required to take down a mainline air unit that requires no energy set back. Realistically, no one uses their banshees to head on strike an army, its just for base harassment unless they converge with an allied army but they are just too maneuvarable and difficult to counter when dealing with two other armies but hey thats just me and honestly, no way grunts and marines are a good way to counter banshees, maybe marines with rpg but definitely not grunts. Maybe give grunts needlers then we’ll talk 😂
AKAtheFonz wrote:
Lol why do you hate vampires 😂. But idk. From what i’ve seen any good player, especially deci, who knows how to use their banshees becomes a serious problem mid/late game. IMO, its just too much effort required to take down a mainline air unit that requires no energy set back
They're only good with Deci. But anything is good with Deci, he's a broken leader right now. Unless you have full pop banshee, at any point in the game you can get pushed by infantry or core vehicle/AA and lose.
AKAtheFonz wrote:
My only suggestion, as usual, anti air needs splash damage. Base turrets, reavers and wolverines need splash damage to air to make them viable for a mixed army. 7-8 reavers is not enough to stop 40 deci banshees while forge runs in with grizzlies after deci pulls back flies accross the map and hits your allies base. Wingmen hornets and banshees are OP this way.. or bring vampires back from hw 1 😇
They already do splash. Only buff wolfs need is a speed buff.
Idk i still say say a full air army for what it costs compared to the time and resources required to make a viable counter for all three opponents to defend from hit and runs is severely unbalanced but agree to disagree. My little grunts have short legs, they can only run so fast 😂
AKAtheFonz wrote:
Idk i still say say a full air army for what it costs compared to the time and resources required to make a viable counter for all three opponents to defend from hit and runs is severely unbalanced but agree to disagree. My little grunts have short legs, they can only run so fast 😂
Don't really consider 3's in game balancing, it's only looked at in 1v1's.
This is a nice list and I agree with most of it. I don't think ark defense should have a price cut tho. Another small DPS buff will make it more usable and relative to other lps.
I agree that Cutter needs some love. To keep up with other commanders, he needs a way to delay the mid and late game. Destroying resource generating or tech buildings is normally the answer to this but T1 units do not do enough damage to buildings to destroy the building and come out with a decent trade. Most early heroes and leader abilities can shut this sort of play down with ease and easily come out on top as far as resource trade goes. Ultimately, I'm hoping for a buff to damage against buildings for grenades and flamers or a buff in the damage that ODST charges do against a single building (not like in the old days where it just destroyed the entire base).
As for Isabel, I think swapping mines and heavy metal would put her in the right spot, Maybe i'm alone in this, idk
Yes to everything except yap buff and kinsano nerf. UNSC doesn’t need less base damage again especiallimg considering kinsano needs units to actually strip and heal and repair, engineer shielding and fortifications exists. It’s and ultimate, needs to be conscious threat. That and considering kinsano doesn’t do any other play style better than other UNSC (flamehogs-mediocre at best.) by that same logic eradication and cataclysm should also do less base damage.
yap needs a longer cooldown on most powers.
Unsc should have more base breaking potential not less.
I disagree with inferno not getting nerfed to bases. She has lots of LPs to crack a base but Inferno is undeniably strong by Itself. It redbars every build and with a few drops, complete eco strip. Fortify does not help and a banished shield falls between 1 to 2 seconds. Im not going to argue yap though is he has the most mixed reviews but i will say his ability to use powers is almost infinite late game.
Maybe nerf Inferno vs buildings but buff the DoT vs units to make it more viable in that context.
AKAtheFonz wrote:
Lol why do you hate vampires 😂. But idk. From what i’ve seen any good player, especially deci, who knows how to use their banshees becomes a serious problem mid/late game. IMO, its just too much effort required to take down a mainline air unit that requires no energy set back. Realistically, no one uses their banshees to head on strike an army, its just for base harassment unless they converge with an allied army but they are just too maneuvarable and difficult to counter when dealing with two other armies but hey thats just me and honestly, no way grunts and marines are a good way to counter banshees, maybe marines with rpg but definitely not grunts. Maybe give grunts needlers then we’ll talk 😂
Banshees are fine in team games as they can be used to destroy unguarded bases, but 1v1 they do under perform. I'm fine with hem being a niche unit tbh. Banished core units aren't supposed to be that good. I slight buff would be nice though.
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