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How to balance the game

OP CarsandCameras

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BTW do we have a leader tier list?
Bauer8056 wrote:
BTW do we have a leader tier list?
LEADER TIER LIST:
S: Decimus, Forge, Anders, Shipmaster
A: Atriox, Pavium
B: Jerome, Colony
C: Cutter, Yap Yap, Kinsano
D: Voridus, Isabel
F: Johnson, Arby
Troll status: Serina

This is the current tier list from the HWTC chat which has most of the high level players in it. People will disagree with things like atriox being A or S and Colony being A or B. I personally don't like how there are 4 S tier leaders. At that point, everyone should be shifted down. S should be reserved for uniquely game breaking. In that regard, most people agree that Deciums is S and many people will argue for anders there also. At the end of the day, these are just opinions and if you would like to add to the conversation, you can join the Halo Ward Tournament Central (HWTC) discord to talk with people or join a league. Its a pretty chill place, I highly recommend.
Buff gauss.
currently its unusable Fix it.
I think gauss hogs should be more of hit and run units to kill minis and strip a few pads because they don't really counter infantry or vehicle or mass air.
How about nerfing defense in general? This whole sit and wait until the other guy pushes into your turrets/shields is horrible. Nerf UNSC turrets and drop shield health, not much point in playing this crap right now...
Why is Isabel D tier? she is amazing
Why is Isabel D tier? she is amazing
Mostly because two hunters under a shield can solo full pop hogs, Izzy's early game is weak, and her late game looks like everyone else's
Why is Isabel D tier? she is amazing
Mostly because two hunters under a shield can solo full pop hogs, Izzy's early game is weak, and her late game looks like everyone else's
She doesn't have an enhanced Eco, enhanced siege, or strong mid game units, which makes it tough for her to compete there, but he late game is absolutely devastating if you can get there. Heavy metal, restoration drones, mac, and GITM will tear apart any late game opposition, if you can get there.
I don't know, getting 6 shielded Scorps and gales with Condor support works wonders for me when using her
I don't know, getting 6 shielded Scorps and gales with Condor support works wonders for me when using her
Sure, that works great. But nobody who has more brain functions than your average vegetable will let you get 6 scorps and a Condor when they can just set you on fire for the first two thirds of the game.
I don't know, getting 6 shielded Scorps and gales with Condor support works wonders for me when using her
Sure, that works great. But nobody who has more brain functions than your average vegetable will let you get 6 scorps and a Condor when they can just set you on fire for the first two thirds of the game.
You''ll be suprised at how large of a vegetable farm online can be
I agree that Cutter needs some love. To keep up with other commanders, he needs a way to delay the mid and late game. Destroying resource generating or tech buildings is normally the answer to this but T1 units do not do enough damage to buildings to destroy the building and come out with a decent trade. Most early heroes and leader abilities can shut this sort of play down with ease and easily come out on top as far as resource trade goes. Ultimately, I'm hoping for a buff to damage against buildings for grenades and flamers or a buff in the damage that ODST charges do against a single building (not like in the old days where it just destroyed the entire base).
(Making a small rant since this post reminded me of somethings that ive noticed with halo wars 2 in general :D ) I think unsc needs a buff in general before we start handing out buffs to individual unsc leaders. Cutter is fine in my opionion(which can be wrong). Its just that 99 percent of unsc just sucks. Vultures, cyclopses, and scorpions are all still pretty underwhelming and for some reason the powers at be are afraid to give them more than a .00001 percent buff every month. So maybe those units should be fixed first. Things look even bleaker when you look at unsc vs any average banished leader. Snipers are so precious and fragile that they could walk through a bush and lose half of their health bar and can single handedly shut down your economy when one of them gets a paper cut. Meanwhile suis nuke inf armies and rangers slaughter everything infantry. Warthogs are one of the few units that seem to lose dps after they are upgraded (I feel like this is the second time this problem has been introduced to the game). Meanwhile mauraders are solid. Wraiths vs scorpions which one would you be afraid of ?(scorch mortars plus vortex is scary) lets talk about vultures for a sec. My friend and I were screwing around when the last update came out to see if vultures changed at all now and shockingly no they are still garbage at everything except for cheeky base snipes. We watched 2 (unupgraded) scorpion tanks machine gun a vulture (unupgraded) down and neither tank died. My completely unscientific test demonstrates one of three things. Wow scorpions must be really good! Wow vultures must be really bad! Or lastly, both of them are terrible and serve very little purpose in the game except for very specific situations. Cutter might need a buff, but we should probably start with the glaring issues before we go and break the game by buffing the leader and not fixing the entire faction first. This is how mauraders broke the game a few seasons back when people found out that they used to slaughter full pops of banshees with thick hide among other things. The problem was a compounded issue but all the devs saw was that mauraders sucked every season. So they buffed and buffed and buffed them over and over again and they still sucked then one day they decided to tune hunters and cyclopses a bit and all hell broke loose when they started slaughtering full pops of banshees with ease. At the end of the day Cutter MIGHT be fine after all, so might Izzy, and jhonson, and the rest of the cast. Its hard to beat banished when all UNSC has is nightengales and CT marines.
Unsc also has Kodiaks, which rule the mid and late game unless the opponent goes air, but banshees suck so that isn't a real option.

In addition to siege being stupidly good, unsc has Wingman Hornets; probably the single best unit in the game, and definitely the best core unit.

I agree the unsc need a buff to various things, but I also think they (and the Banished) need a few nerfs to even the field. Making hunters less of a catch all unit, and weakening rangers a bit would help bring the unsc more in line with their anti-covanant counterparts. On the flip side, Kodiaks are too good against vehicles, to the point of turtling into WM hornets is the go to UNSC strategy. (Of course some leaders are better at it than others)
Forge hog is fine on Tech 1.
+1 Retriever speed is a bad change, it won't be able to outrun beams anyway, a better fix would be to reduce beam dmg vs ultimates.
Goliath build time is a good start, but there is more going on here. Grunts do more dps per cost than chopper vs light rush . Scouts suck at their job.
Odst are decent, I don't thinking I would like to see them buffed. There has to be a better approach to this.
Grenadiers could also do more dmg vs light armor.
I don't like the idea of infusion tech buffing cata, would be rather strong. The ability is kinda silly. It would be better if cata was just percentage based instead of pure damage based which would have avoided this issue entirely.
I think the bigger problem with Kinsano is just the tankiness of the hero for how fast she is. A cost increase to inferno and a hero nerf would probably be more justified.
I would not touch the gather rate of yapyap. I proved it was necessary the first time with math, but the math now is in yaps favor. He would benefit from choppers not being crap. And we should also look to nerf the T3 leader heals.
When it comes to arbiter, enforcers could also use some buffs on T1. The whole no dmg while moving thing is really detrimental.

All building killers should prioritize buildings.
how is shipmaster according to you?
I agree that Cutter needs some love. To keep up with other commanders, he needs a way to delay the mid and late game. Destroying resource generating or tech buildings is normally the answer to this but T1 units do not do enough damage to buildings to destroy the building and come out with a decent trade. Most early heroes and leader abilities can shut this sort of play down with ease and easily come out on top as far as resource trade goes. Ultimately, I'm hoping for a buff to damage against buildings for grenades and flamers or a buff in the damage that ODST charges do against a single building (not like in the old days where it just destroyed the entire base).
(Making a small rant since this post reminded me of somethings that ive noticed with halo wars 2 in general :D ) I think unsc needs a buff in general before we start handing out buffs to individual unsc leaders. Cutter is fine in my opionion(which can be wrong). Its just that 99 percent of unsc just sucks. Vultures, cyclopses, and scorpions are all still pretty underwhelming and for some reason the powers at be are afraid to give them more than a .00001 percent buff every month. So maybe those units should be fixed first. Things look even bleaker when you look at unsc vs any average banished leader. Snipers are so precious and fragile that they could walk through a bush and lose half of their health bar and can single handedly shut down your economy when one of them gets a paper cut. Meanwhile suis nuke inf armies and rangers slaughter everything infantry. Warthogs are one of the few units that seem to lose dps after they are upgraded (I feel like this is the second time this problem has been introduced to the game). Meanwhile mauraders are solid. Wraiths vs scorpions which one would you be afraid of ?(scorch mortars plus vortex is scary) lets talk about vultures for a sec. My friend and I were screwing around when the last update came out to see if vultures changed at all now and shockingly no they are still garbage at everything except for cheeky base snipes. We watched 2 (unupgraded) scorpion tanks machine gun a vulture (unupgraded) down and neither tank died. My completely unscientific test demonstrates one of three things. Wow scorpions must be really good! Wow vultures must be really bad! Or lastly, both of them are terrible and serve very little purpose in the game except for very specific situations. Cutter might need a buff, but we should probably start with the glaring issues before we go and break the game by buffing the leader and not fixing the entire faction first. This is how mauraders broke the game a few seasons back when people found out that they used to slaughter full pops of banshees with thick hide among other things. The problem was a compounded issue but all the devs saw was that mauraders sucked every season. So they buffed and buffed and buffed them over and over again and they still sucked then one day they decided to tune hunters and cyclopses a bit and all hell broke loose when they started slaughtering full pops of banshees with ease. At the end of the day Cutter MIGHT be fine after all, so might Izzy, and jhonson, and the rest of the cast. Its hard to beat banished when all UNSC has is nightengales and CT marines.
Agreed. Cutter's kit is fine for the most part and it's the general units that make him as a leader lacking. The odst suggestion though would help in the short run though but like I mentioned on the post, it can't be over done or we're back to season 1 with odst base nukes
Yes to everything except yap buff and kinsano nerf. UNSC doesn’t need less base damage again especiallimg considering kinsano needs units to actually strip and heal and repair, engineer shielding and fortifications exists. It’s and ultimate, needs to be conscious threat. That and considering kinsano doesn’t do any other play style better than other UNSC (flamehogs-mediocre at best.) by that same logic eradication and cataclysm should also do less base damage.
yap needs a longer cooldown on most powers.
Unsc should have more base breaking potential not less.
Boy you really hate Yap :(
I agree that Cutter needs some love. To keep up with other commanders, he needs a way to delay the mid and late game. Destroying resource generating or tech buildings is normally the answer to this but T1 units do not do enough damage to buildings to destroy the building and come out with a decent trade. Most early heroes and leader abilities can shut this sort of play down with ease and easily come out on top as far as resource trade goes. Ultimately, I'm hoping for a buff to damage against buildings for grenades and flamers or a buff in the damage that ODST charges do against a single building (not like in the old days where it just destroyed the entire base).
(Making a small rant since this post reminded me of somethings that ive noticed with halo wars 2 in general :D ) I think unsc needs a buff in general before we start handing out buffs to individual unsc leaders. Cutter is fine in my opionion(which can be wrong). Its just that 99 percent of unsc just sucks. Vultures, cyclopses, and scorpions are all still pretty underwhelming and for some reason the powers at be are afraid to give them more than a .00001 percent buff every month. So maybe those units should be fixed first. Things look even bleaker when you look at unsc vs any average banished leader. Snipers are so precious and fragile that they could walk through a bush and lose half of their health bar and can single handedly shut down your economy when one of them gets a paper cut. Meanwhile suis nuke inf armies and rangers slaughter everything infantry. Warthogs are one of the few units that seem to lose dps after they are upgraded (I feel like this is the second time this problem has been introduced to the game). Meanwhile mauraders are solid. Wraiths vs scorpions which one would you be afraid of ?(scorch mortars plus vortex is scary) lets talk about vultures for a sec. My friend and I were screwing around when the last update came out to see if vultures changed at all now and shockingly no they are still garbage at everything except for cheeky base snipes. We watched 2 (unupgraded) scorpion tanks machine gun a vulture (unupgraded) down and neither tank died. My completely unscientific test demonstrates one of three things. Wow scorpions must be really good! Wow vultures must be really bad! Or lastly, both of them are terrible and serve very little purpose in the game except for very specific situations. Cutter might need a buff, but we should probably start with the glaring issues before we go and break the game by buffing the leader and not fixing the entire faction first. This is how mauraders broke the game a few seasons back when people found out that they used to slaughter full pops of banshees with thick hide among other things. The problem was a compounded issue but all the devs saw was that mauraders sucked every season. So they buffed and buffed and buffed them over and over again and they still sucked then one day they decided to tune hunters and cyclopses a bit and all hell broke loose when they started slaughtering full pops of banshees with ease. At the end of the day Cutter MIGHT be fine after all, so might Izzy, and jhonson, and the rest of the cast. Its hard to beat banished when all UNSC has is nightengales and CT marines.
I think honestly the unsc need just need a buff to scorpions. The vultures and cyclops are counter units so they should be less potent than the banished counterparts (locust and hunter). The sniper is fine as they are great at killing heros and banished doesn't have access to anything long range early game. Also don't forget kodiaks are better than blister backs, and hornets are amazing too.
Personally, I'd love a nerf to Shroud Projectile zapper; having two of those things rotating around each other is a joke. It took me about 7 Wolverines (plus ones I had to keep replacing because they were camouflaging Hunters and Wraiths as well as Jerome and his Mantis...) just to shoot them down so I could deal with what they were protecting. Personally, I think their cooldown for their zapper is just too short. They were just zapping my Wolverine missiles left and right, and when they didn't zap the missiles, the targeting missed the intended target.

I shouldn't need more than one small group of three Wolverines/Reavers to take down 2 Shrouds quickly. I had to dedicate 28 population to deal with something taking up 8 Population on the enemy team...that 20 extra population could have been used on some Hornets, NightingGales, or even a few tanks.
Personally, I'd love a nerf to Shroud Projectile zapper; having two of those things rotating around each other is a joke. It took me about 7 Wolverines (plus ones I had to keep replacing because they were camouflaging Hunters and Wraiths as well as Jerome and his Mantis...) just to shoot them down so I could deal with what they were protecting. Personally, I think their cooldown for their zapper is just too short. They were just zapping my Wolverine missiles left and right, and when they didn't zap the missiles, the targeting missed the intended target.

I shouldn't need more than one small group of three Wolverines/Reavers to take down 2 Shrouds quickly. I had to dedicate 28 population to deal with something taking up 8 Population on the enemy team...that 20 extra population could have been used on some Hornets, NightingGales, or even a few tanks.
Nerfing Shrouds would be awful; they already have no damage output, and their cloak gets countered easily. If you need to take the shrouds down you could have gone Hornets and kited him to death.

Shrouds are pretty much the only thing that lets the Banished not just lose to kodiak spam since Banshees are bad. a group of three reavers already beats a shroud btw.
Personally, I'd love a nerf to Shroud Projectile zapper; having two of those things rotating around each other is a joke. It took me about 7 Wolverines (plus ones I had to keep replacing because they were camouflaging Hunters and Wraiths as well as Jerome and his Mantis...) just to shoot them down so I could deal with what they were protecting. Personally, I think their cooldown for their zapper is just too short. They were just zapping my Wolverine missiles left and right, and when they didn't zap the missiles, the targeting missed the intended target.

I shouldn't need more than one small group of three Wolverines/Reavers to take down 2 Shrouds quickly. I had to dedicate 28 population to deal with something taking up 8 Population on the enemy team...that 20 extra population could have been used on some Hornets, NightingGales, or even a few tanks.
I'm going to be honest, if you think shrouds are OP you are either delusional or really really misread the situation. Wolverines completely overpower shrouds and it sounds to me like your issue was the fact that you had a late game jerome + banished ball coming down on you. Not to mention 1, your team can also build shrouds. 2, shrouds have insanely low health and long build times, 3 detection range is huge and normally barely a factor. If you want to convince people shrouds of all things are OP you're going to have to come here with evidence not with some random anecdote which I am confident 100% of the high level community is going to disagree with.
I agree, Shrouds are ridiculous and need to be nerfed severely, i would suggest to decrease their fire rate by 300% and the size and duration of their cloak field reduced by 300% too.
Then maybe they are finally balanced again.
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