What I was saying you did not catch. With exsperience with all leaders and common sense, you should be armed with the knowledge to determine whom should be nerfed and those who are inferior. Its usually obvious who is better.Turtle Boy 1999 wrote:That’s a little unfair. You can often judge meta by who you see in games. For example, tons of people play Jerome cuz he’s broken. But you rarely see anyone play, say Isabel.DHG strongdog wrote:If you play every leader and have an opinion, then you can get an idea who is meta.OneCleverTurtle wrote:I had to have the list of them pulled up next to me as I wrote my tier list because there was no way I'd remember all 16 and where they are in the meta.DHG strongdog wrote:Dont blame ya. 16 leaders is alot to remember.CarsandCameras wrote:Edited. I always seem to forget one.DHG strongdog wrote:CarsandCameras wrote:
I've not really played regularly in months, but has Kinsano really fallen that far down the tier list?
Someone else had mentioned to me that it had to do with her hogs being behind standard hogs in the current meta, but is that really all of it?
Someone else had mentioned to me that it had to do with her hogs being behind standard hogs in the current meta, but is that really all of it?
It's mostly due to her tech 2 flamehogs being worse than tech 2 hogs, but it's also due to how aggressive the meta has become, and Kinsano's tech 1 doesn't stand a chance against most other openings.tharandyman wrote:I've not really played regularly in months, but has Kinsano really fallen that far down the tier list?
Someone else had mentioned to me that it had to do with her hogs being behind standard hogs in the current meta, but is that really all of it?
OP
But God help you if she gets to T3. I was Anders last game and, because I’m still learning how to play again, I had to be carried by my teammate (Shipmaster). He saved me like, 5 times that game with swarms of Banshees. Otherwise Kinsano would’ve messed me up so bad.OneCleverTurtle wrote:It's mostly due to her tech 2 flamehogs being worse than tech 2 hogs, but it's also due to how aggressive the meta has become, and Kinsano's tech 1 doesn't stand a chance against most other openings.tharandyman wrote:I've not really played regularly in months, but has Kinsano really fallen that far down the tier list?
Someone else had mentioned to me that it had to do with her hogs being behind standard hogs in the current meta, but is that really all of it?
You put Johnny below Serina? I'm disappointed and sad.THEWALL766 wrote:S-Tier
Anders
Ship
A-Tier
Jerome
Forge
Decimus
Atriox
Pavium
B-Tier
Cutter
Izzy
Colony
Voridus
Yap Yap
Arbiter
C-Tier
Kinsano
Serina
Johnson
My opinion, roast me as you see fit
OP
Both of them are kinda “meh”. Serina used to be broken, long ago, but not so much anymore. The same applies to every leader.Mr BluDawn wrote:You put Johnny below Serina? I'm disappointed and sad.THEWALL766 wrote:S-Tier
Anders
Ship
A-Tier
Jerome
Forge
Decimus
Atriox
Pavium
B-Tier
Cutter
Izzy
Colony
Voridus
Yap Yap
Arbiter
C-Tier
Kinsano
Serina
Johnson
My opinion, roast me as you see fit
Serina has ice, Johnson has bunkers. They’re both pretty good at defense imo, but really they’re interchangeable here.
It was a joke, I know they're both horrible leaders but I like to play Johnson. So it breaks my heart to see Serina be one level higher than JohnnyTurtle Boy 1999 wrote:Both of them are kinda “meh”. Serina used to be broken, long ago, but not so much anymore. The same applies to every leader.Mr BluDawn wrote:You put Johnny below Serina? I'm disappointed and sad.THEWALL766 wrote:S-Tier
Anders
Ship
A-Tier
Jerome
Forge
Decimus
Atriox
Pavium
B-Tier
Cutter
Izzy
Colony
Voridus
Yap Yap
Arbiter
C-Tier
Kinsano
Serina
Johnson
My opinion, roast me as you see fit
Serina has ice, Johnson has bunkers. They’re both pretty good at defense imo, but really they’re interchangeable here.
i don't recall Johnson ever being broken.Turtle Boy 1999 wrote:Both of them are kinda “meh”. Serina used to be broken, long ago, but not so much anymore. The same applies to every leader.Mr BluDawn wrote:You put Johnny below Serina? I'm disappointed and sad.THEWALL766 wrote:S-Tier
Anders
Ship
A-Tier
Jerome
Forge
Decimus
Atriox
Pavium
B-Tier
Cutter
Izzy
Colony
Voridus
Yap Yap
Arbiter
C-Tier
Kinsano
Serina
Johnson
My opinion, roast me as you see fit
Serina has ice, Johnson has bunkers. They’re both pretty good at defense imo, but really they’re interchangeable here.
OP
Exception, not the rule.DHG strongdog wrote:i don't recall Johnson ever being broken.Turtle Boy 1999 wrote:Both of them are kinda “meh”. Serina used to be broken, long ago, but not so much anymore. The same applies to every leader.Mr BluDawn wrote:You put Johnny below Serina? I'm disappointed and sad.THEWALL766 wrote:S-Tier
Anders
Ship
A-Tier
Jerome
Forge
Decimus
Atriox
Pavium
B-Tier
Cutter
Izzy
Colony
Voridus
Yap Yap
Arbiter
C-Tier
Kinsano
Serina
Johnson
My opinion, roast me as you see fit
Serina has ice, Johnson has bunkers. They’re both pretty good at defense imo, but really they’re interchangeable here.
OP
That’s fair. I’m into Anders and Forge a bit, plus Colony. Only one leader I think is deserving to be placed above the first two, and that’s Shippy (well, and Jerome). Shippy teammates kinda save me a good bit. I’m unsure why his Banshees managed to defeat Vultures, Nightingales and Wolverines mixed, but they do.Mr BluDawn wrote:It was a joke, I know they're both horrible leaders but I like to play Johnson. So it breaks my heart to see Serina be one level higher than JohnnyTurtle Boy 1999 wrote:Both of them are kinda “meh”. Serina used to be broken, long ago, but not so much anymore. The same applies to every leader.Mr BluDawn wrote:You put Johnny below Serina? I'm disappointed and sad.THEWALL766 wrote:S-Tier
Anders
Ship
A-Tier
Jerome
Forge
Decimus
Atriox
Pavium
B-Tier
Cutter
Izzy
Colony
Voridus
Yap Yap
Arbiter
C-Tier
Kinsano
Serina
Johnson
My opinion, roast me as you see fit
Serina has ice, Johnson has bunkers. They’re both pretty good at defense imo, but really they’re interchangeable here.
Can you elaborate on points 1 and 2? I'd argue that Decimus can beat Shipmaster quite handily and that your first 6 leaders are the actual best in the game due to their bloated power kits with outplaying the opponent being the main difference (Except Eco powers are broken by their nature in an RTS..) Shippy just requires a closer eye on things as he can start having problems if you blow your one nuke and have to resort to fighting fair.CarsandCameras wrote:You guys seem to think Voridus is way better than he is. He's viable. Not meta.
1- Ship/Forge. Ship beats everyone but Forge and Forge beats everyone but Jerome.
2- Atriox/Jerome. Both have incredible heroes that will shut down just about anything (Trox to a lesser extent but has more build flexibility).
3- Anders/Deci. Anders has a very strong T2 timing push and solid opener and Deci has 2 unkillable heroes with Boundless Siphon.
4- Colony/Cutter. At this point the leaders listed aren't considered meta. Viable, not meta.
5- Voridus
6- Pavium
7- Isabel
8- Kinsano
9- Arbiter
10- Johnson
11- Yap
12- Serina
Edit: Also Colony is still very much a huge powerhouse leader with really good matchups.
Vultures are bad and just eat up pop, that's why. I wouldn't really say that's just Shipmaster which his air but it could be. Ive heard he has crazy fast airTurtle Boy 1999 wrote:That’s fair. I’m into Anders and Forge a bit, plus Colony. Only one leader I think is deserving to be placed above the first two, and that’s Shippy (well, and Jerome). Shippy teammates kinda save me a good bit. I’m unsure why his Banshees managed to defeat Vultures, Nightingales and Wolverines mixed, but they do.Mr BluDawn wrote:It was a joke, I know they're both horrible leaders but I like to play Johnson. So it breaks my heart to see Serina be one level higher than JohnnyTurtle Boy 1999 wrote:Both of them are kinda “meh”. Serina used to be broken, long ago, but not so much anymore. The same applies to every leader.Mr BluDawn wrote:You put Johnny below Serina? I'm disappointed and sad.THEWALL766 wrote:S-Tier
Anders
Ship
A-Tier
Jerome
Forge
Decimus
Atriox
Pavium
B-Tier
Cutter
Izzy
Colony
Voridus
Yap Yap
Arbiter
C-Tier
Kinsano
Serina
Johnson
My opinion, roast me as you see fit
Serina has ice, Johnson has bunkers. They’re both pretty good at defense imo, but really they’re interchangeable here.
1 .Jerome. Its absurd how strong is his saprtan, comantis and pretty much everything else I hate playing against him
2 . Decimus aitriox hunter cap
3 .Forge, cutter, anders shipmaster
4 . serina
5 .Isabel (garbage tier)
2 . Decimus aitriox hunter cap
3 .Forge, cutter, anders shipmaster
4 . serina
5 .Isabel (garbage tier)
I like how you got Hunter Cap in there instead of Colony.slive89 wrote:1 .Jerome. Its absurd how strong is his saprtan, comantis and pretty much everything else I hate playing against him
2 . Decimus aitriox hunter cap
3 .Forge, cutter, anders shipmaster
4 . serina
5 .Isabel (garbage tier)
Ship never has to fight fair. Teleport out of beam. Extract honor guard. Displace their army away and shield up. Deci is broken because his heroes never die, but Ship doesn't care about that if he doesn't have to fight them.XavieroftheWind wrote:Can you elaborate on points 1 and 2? I'd argue that Decimus can beat Shipmaster quite handily and that your first 6 leaders are the actual best in the game due to their bloated power kits with outplaying the opponent being the main difference (Except Eco powers are broken by their nature in an RTS..) Shippy just requires a closer eye on things as he can start having problems if you blow your one nuke and have to resort to fighting fair.CarsandCameras wrote:
Edit: Also Colony is still very much a huge powerhouse leader with really good matchups.
Colony is good, but his effectiveness is very map dependent.
I see little bit pointless. I mean, each leader has its own strenghts and weaknesses. It depends how you play it... Dunno, it is like making a list of Street Fighter characters...
sure. Every leader has their strengths and weaknesses; but in some cases, these strengths and weaknesses can be completely unfair.BlinxESP wrote:I see little bit pointless. I mean, each leader has its own strenghts and weaknesses. It depends how you play it... Dunno, it is like making a list of Street Fighter characters...
Wait.. but can't Decimus force an early confrontation and defeat him there? You're skipping steps here. Teleport out of beam AND vortex? Cooldowns.. early game pressure. There is a lot to consider when considering a 1v1 scenario. Early game often decides the winner and I just dont think Shipmaster has it vs Decimus. Hell, he doesnt have it against anyone if a single mistake is made and the Guard is killed early because once you snowball with detectors and the like, he can't protect your T1 base.CarsandCameras wrote:Ship never has to fight fair. Teleport out of beam. Extract honor guard. Displace their army away and shield up. Deci is broken because his heroes never die, but Ship doesn't care about that if he doesn't have to fight them.XavieroftheWind wrote:Can you elaborate on points 1 and 2? I'd argue that Decimus can beat Shipmaster quite handily and that your first 6 leaders are the actual best in the game due to their bloated power kits with outplaying the opponent being the main difference (Except Eco powers are broken by their nature in an RTS..) Shippy just requires a closer eye on things as he can start having problems if you blow your one nuke and have to resort to fighting fair.CarsandCameras wrote:
Edit: Also Colony is still very much a huge powerhouse leader with really good matchups.
Colony is good, but his effectiveness is very map dependent.
Shipmaster does not have a hard time deflecting early pressure from Decimus. The best way for Decimus to beat Ship is to match their tech and beam SS when it comes down. Warlord is not good at pushing a well defended base on T1, grunts die to sui, and jpb die to ghosts.XavieroftheWind wrote:Wait.. but can't Decimus force an early confrontation and defeat him there? You're skipping steps here. Teleport out of beam AND vortex? Cooldowns.. early game pressure. There is a lot to consider when considering a 1v1 scenario. Early game often decides the winner and I just dont think Shipmaster has it vs Decimus. Hell, he doesnt have it against anyone if a single mistake is made and the Guard is killed early because once you snowball with detectors and the like, he can't protect your T1 base.CarsandCameras wrote:XavieroftheWind wrote:CarsandCameras wrote:
Not gonna mention the possibility of a well timed decimus Y wrecking suis/ghosts/guard? Also vortex is what gives it to him.CarsandCameras wrote:Shipmaster does not have a hard time deflecting early pressure from Decimus. The best way for Decimus to beat Ship is to match their tech and beam SS when it comes down. Warlord is not good at pushing a well defended base on T1, grunts die to sui, and jpb die to ghosts.XavieroftheWind wrote:Wait.. but can't Decimus force an early confrontation and defeat him there? You're skipping steps here. Teleport out of beam AND vortex? Cooldowns.. early game pressure. There is a lot to consider when considering a 1v1 scenario. Early game often decides the winner and I just dont think Shipmaster has it vs Decimus. Hell, he doesnt have it against anyone if a single mistake is made and the Guard is killed early because once you snowball with detectors and the like, he can't protect your T1 base.CarsandCameras wrote:XavieroftheWind wrote:CarsandCameras wrote:
Ghosts are pretty much eliminated instantly when immobilized or otherwise caught. Hammer pull guarantees you wasted supplies each time it tugs a ghost out of position to get smashed to dust.
Not to mention that nothing stops decimus from building shrapnel choppers to murder your suis a simple vortex guaranteeing further destruction of your defense.
Also siphon.
Thing is, if Decimus makes a cloud of forces against Ship early game before leader point 3 or tech 2, Ship is going to have a bad time. His hammer pull and amazing Y ability really cement him as a hero killer/scout crusher and great early leader point options further make him an absolute demon.