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[Locked] HW2 Spartan Power-level Inconsistent?

OP total war1402

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But they have shields. You see them using it in game...
We have already been over this buddy, the shields are writen off by game as experimental. Meaning makeshift, as in they have retrofitted their outdated armor with shields which may or may not all the time, for game balance they do but the only reason those shields exist at all is game valence, 343 just had to come up with how their old armor had shields
Game balance? They could just give the Spartans more health. They gave them shields because people expect Spartans to have them. This sounds more like an attempt to rationalise a retcon. Didn't the Spartans shields take Halsey reverse engineering Covenant tech? I don't think a bit of tinkering would reproduce that. So really they have the same shields and their inclusion is of questioanable canon.
NxtDutch wrote:
I see you didn't pay attention. Atriox is different. As others said, he is smarter, faster, stronger, and far more battle tested.

Also, if you were paying attention he was wearing an exo suit. Similar to a Spartans (Hell, some of it does have Spartan resemblance, so perhaps he enjoyed some spoils of war from fallen Spartans). Which enhances his already remarkable strength, and speed.
That could be true because you see odst battle plate over his stomach.
His hammer seems pretty op with the force abilities it has.
Numot15 wrote:
But they have shields. You see them using it in game...
We have already been over this buddy, the shields are writen off by game as experimental. Meaning makeshift, as in they have retrofitted their outdated armor with shields which may or may not all the time, for game balance they do but the only reason those shields exist at all is game valence, 343 just had to come up with how their old armor had shields
I thought "because, reasons" and personally moved on as to why red team has shields.
Some people just like to nitpick ;)
Game balance? They could just give the Spartans more health. They gave them shields because people expect Spartans to have them. This sounds more like an attempt to rationalise a retcon. Didn't the Spartans shields take Halsey reverse engineering Covenant tech? I don't think a bit of tinkering would reproduce that. So really they have the same shields and their inclusion is of questioanable canon.
More health is not the same as a sheild though, not even close. A shield regenerates, hp does not. Hero unit wise it would make it hard to balance. To little health and they are underpowered compared to those with shields, to much health and they become over powered.
So we see Atriox wreck three Spartans by himself at the same time. Now, in a later cutscene we see one Spartan effortlessly take down 5 elites and later a dozen brutes armed with gravity hammers. He beats them by being faster and as strong as the Brutes, notice how he dodges a gravity hammer and manages to pull one brute by grabbing its open jaw. So the strength difference isn't that extreme. The shotgun pellets also pierce the Brutes bulky plate armor.

So how does the fight with Atriox make any sense?

We see three Spartans gun fire bounch off Atriox despite all other cutscenes showing the bullets go clean through the plate and Atriox doesn't flash to indicate he is wearing an energy shield. If a knife can pierce his hide, then why wouldn't a gunshot? Plus, Atriox is shown as being faster than Red Team. How? If he is just a normal Brute then how would he be quicker than a normal brute. When Jerome fights them, they are virtually moving in slow motion and he can run rings around them. How can an unaugmented Brute be that much better? Hes also shown as obscenely strong. He kicks a fully armoured Spartan away, punchs another across a room and was able to restrain Alice picking her up with one arm. If all Brutes are this strong then how come Jerome can wreck house with a dozen Chieftains with similar equipment.
"So does a gravity hammer. This hasn't helped brutes when they fought Spartans before because they couldn't hit them. Why should it be different now."

I don't understand what you're responding to.

Also....
"In the cutscene on the carrier where Jerome shoots a shotgun and it cuts clean through the Banished soldier he is fighting. Or when he uses two shots of his pistol to kill an elite. But when they fight Atriox the guns just magically stop working."

Because his armor is made of a more resistant alloy, befitting of his status as the Banished leader.
Well I'll break it down for you since you can't work it out for yourself. A gravity hammer increases the force of a brutes melee attacks. Functionally it is exactly the same as having a power gauntlet. In fact, the hammer is more powerful since it should be able to kill a Spartan if it connects with him. So saying "Atriox has something that boosts his strength so can beat Spartans" doesn't add up because Jerome can kill a dozen brutes with weapons that enhance their strength.

Yet a Knife is able to pierce this armor...

Spartan armor is also more resistant and they're supposed to have energy shields. How can this armor withstand falling from space but not a power gauntlet or him punching them?
Red Team is using original MJOLNIR Mark IV Armor, which in canon, does not have energy shields (MJOLNIR only gets energy shields as a basic festure with the Mark V). Red Team has energy shields in game for gameplay purposes but in lore, they do not.
Didn't know about the 343 thinkering retcon though, thanks. As for the people saying a little thinkering could not create shields on Mark IV armor, Isabel is there and she has access to Modern UNSC schematics
I'm pretty sure Spartans are generally faster than Brutes. Let's be honest, Atriox not having a helmet was probably just for the atmosphere. even Elites always fight with helmets. I would have expected at least one of them to shoot Atriox in the face, and a power gauntlet increases strength not speed. Strength rarely helps Brutes against Spartans because Spartans are faster, hell Chief was able to dodge bullets when he first got into the power armour. That said, on the other hand, not only is Atriox superior to any other Brute in experience, speed, strength and skill, the Spartans have only Mark IV armour which doesn't increase strength or even speed to the same level as other armours. That still doesn't explain Atriox overpowering all 3 spartans. These aren't a random squad of Spartan IIs these are part of Red team, maybe not as good as Blue Team, but not far off either. The scene just had bad choreography to make it more dramatic and look cool. There were plenty of scenes in the books where Brutes completely ignored fire from MA5Bs, or even BR fire, yet it never showed spartans aiming for the eyes. I think this is just an old problem that is simply more obvious.

Spartans aren't just trained from age 6 by the best of the best, they aren't just augmented to be more intelligent, faster and stronger, they also have MJOLNIR which is a power armour that increases their strength and shortens reaction time by using their cybernetic implant. There is also the armours gel, which should have been able to resist Atriox's gauntlet. Now Atriox beating that or even ordinary Brutes and Elites coming close to that naturally is pretty ridiculous by itself, in nature sure Chimps are stronger than humans for example, however that's at the cost of endurance, their muscle fibers are the same, but are usually fast twitch and longer on average which allows for greater strength. Now, Spartans modifications make their neurons much faster, 300%, allowing them to see in slow mo or spartan time. This is how they beat Elites and Brutes despite oftentimes being weaker or outnumbered. The question is how does Atriox still move faster than them, sure being genetically lucky and going through suicide missions could contribute, but Red Team have both genes that were present in only 150 individuals that made them the Einsteins of their generation, how did Brutes get so strong and still rely on knowledge enough to produce a technologically advanced civilization that colonised planets then nuked themselves into oblivion before being found by the Covenant?

That's one thing that always seemed weird to me, is the life on the planets outside of Earths just more efficient or more evolved to combat, is the reason that they evolved for combat because they don't have as much deadly disease and thus don't have to worry about being wounded as much, leading to animals being more likely to fight rather than make displays?

The lore explanation was that they had higher gravity on their planets, but Brutes tower over humans, it would actually make more sense for grunts to live on planets with high gravity. To be honest though, if they had just had Atriox be helped by other Brutes in the ambush it would have made a lot more sense, despite him being able to crush Douglas shoulder slowly without the others shooting or rushing him, he also just lets them go as if their weapons can do something to him. It makes almost no sense and is about as realistic most movies where the villain gives some monologue. I think giving characterisation to more non-humans in Halo was a good idea, but making them blatantly overpowered isn't the way to do it.

To those that claim Gen 2 MJOLNIR makes Spartan IVs better, while it does allow a Spartan IV to stand on the same ground as a Spartan II in Gen 1, it actually is less protective than the previous generation when shields are down since it uses less protective armour to cut down on cost, it was made to be mass produced, it also uses computers to help them deal with reaction time since their Nervous system doesn't receive the same augmentation. They also didn't receive the same quality of training, Spartans were trained in military tactics since they were 6. The fact that there is a single second in the trailer, nevermind a whole Yoinking monologue makes about as much sense as Chief stabbing the Didact with a Titanium Knife.
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