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[Locked] I so despair of the rushers

OP paynebyname

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If this thread continues down this path of flaming those who rush or flaming those who don't know how to stop a rush it will be locked. Discuss constructively or not at all. Final warning.
I hear you! The flamethrower mob at the beginning of games is so trash! Mad annoying
Perhaps practicing against friends in customs with rushing/counter-rushing would help. Using the ai as a punching bad could help too.
I understand that rushing can be a valid tactic, but I can't help but feel it's mainly just harmful to the game as a whole, as it cuts out/ignores most of the content/options available in the game. I mean, what's the point of higher leader power tiers and tech levels if people are just going to try to finish the game before they even come into play?

Also, in a way, it is a cheap tactic, as it preys on newer players/players who don't know how to properly counter rushes. Steamrolling new players with rushes is not going to help the game get more players, or even help to retain players.
If rushing was in any way a "cheap" tactic, developers would make it so you couldn't attack/build units before a certain point. This goes for all RTS games.

RTS games are built around the early, mid, and late game. HW2 is not exclusively built to be played in the late game, so one has to learn how to get their. So yes, rushing can be frustrating for newer or less skilled players but in no way is it poor design or unfair.
I understand that rushing can be a valid tactic, but I can't help but feel it's mainly just harmful to the game as a whole, as it cuts out/ignores most of the content/options available in the game. I mean, what's the point of higher leader power tiers and tech levels if people are just going to try to finish the game before they even come into play?

Also, in a way, it is a cheap tactic, as it preys on newer players/players who don't know how to properly counter rushes. Steamrolling new players with rushes is not going to help the game get more players, or even help to retain players.
Well, let's say you jump into a 3v3, and 2 of the enemy are playing as leaders you know will cause great trouble later in the game. Are you going to allow the chance of that happening, beat them to the punch and knock one of them out? As for your second point, not sure that can really be helped since you don't see your enemy's level until the game ends.
I generally play an anti-rush game (especially if I see Colony/Arbitrer/Cutter...)

Most often I am screwed if they don't rush but if they do it his very fun.
You keep trying to equate the late game to a chess match, and how rushes aren't a part of that.

I would like to direct you to the scholar's mate and fool's mate; both are very aggressive strategies that rely on your opponent not realizing what's happening until it's too late.
Rushing is quite similar. If your opponent scouts and prepares for your rush, you lose the element of surprise and your rush's effectiveness craters as you can expect ai turrets and suicide grunts waiting when you get there.

Just like the fool's mate, the goal is to exploit your opponent's blunder to end the game swiftly, but if they catch on you're left at a major disadvantage for quite awhile before you can stabilize.
You realize rushing requires a tonne of microing ? trying to figure what to buy and when< what units to target and if the rush fails you are punished severly on map control, eco and tech. tbh i hate long games as it just comes to who can mindlessly spam leader powers the most then rebuild a whole army in a minute and do it all again
i hate long games as it just comes to who can mindlessly spam leader powers the most then rebuild a whole army in a minute and do it all again
Dingdingdingdingding

Everyone applaud, it's that time of the year where Waypoint gets it right once! This is very accurate.

That's probably why noobs love the late game. It takes absolutely no skill to perform well.
i hate long games as it just comes to who can mindlessly spam leader powers the most then rebuild a whole army in a minute and do it all again
Dingdingdingdingding

Everyone applaud, it's that time of the year where Waypoint gets it right once! This is very accurate.

That's probably why noobs love the late game. It takes absolutely no skill to perform well.
Can;t speak for others, but certainly not the reason I enjoy the late game. To me, at least in it's more the excitement of your armies clashing and that one single mistake can completely swing the game one way or another.
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Can;t speak for others, but certainly not the reason I enjoy the late game. To me, at least in it's more the excitement of your armies clashing and that one single mistake can completely swing the game one way or another.
Except mistakes don't matter half as much in the late game. You got wiped? That's fine, wipe them with your 12 leader powers and re-pop instantly with your massive eco and logistics 3.
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Except mistakes don't matter half as much in the late game. You got wiped? That's fine, wipe them with your 12 leader powers and re-pop instantly with your massive eco and logistics 3.
I second this, if you make a tactical mistake while rushing or defending from a rush, you're screwed. If your units get clumped together, they lose to a spartan slam or leader point. If your hero gets out of position then he gets taken out by scout rams or marine nades.
If you accidentally send your rush units in too late, then you die. If you send them too early then you don't have enough numbers and you die.

Late game you just rebuild your wraiths and engineers, or whatever combination you desire, smash your stuff against their stuff like a toddler with two Tonka trucks, then do it again.
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Can;t speak for others, but certainly not the reason I enjoy the late game. To me, at least in it's more the excitement of your armies clashing and that one single mistake can completely swing the game one way or another.
Except mistakes don't matter half as much in the late game. You got wiped? That's fine, wipe them with your 12 leader powers and re-pop instantly with your massive eco and logistics 3.
I admit I can not really deny that, that does happen more often then not. However while rare, there are those handful of late-games that feel more like a fluid battlefield rather then just a massive cluster of units in one area. Perhaps its a tad of nostalgia from the original Halo Wars where my friends and I would end up with having to always keep on guard with constant enemy attacks/counters until a break happened. I guess in a nutshell those rare 3v3 battles made the victories taste even sweeter when it came to late-game.
Rushing vs anti-rushing has been a battle since the dawn of RTS. Although, I have played no Halo 2 multiplayer games yet, I did play a ton of the original Halo Wars. I even able was to earn the General Rank, which is one of my top 10 favorite achievements I have ever earned (yes I have a list).

Back then I was so anti-rushing, I would get angry every time it happened to me. Finally, to combat it, I learned how to do it, and do it well. This also taught me how to defend against it. I gained a certain appreciation for the method, but really never truly enjoyed doing it.

So I went back to my normal style, but I no longer became upset when I was rushed. Either I defended it and counter which ended the game fast or i loss the game quickly. Regardless, I was on to a new game and with the hopes of being a long drawn out, back and forth battle.
I think its fine to rush in ranked as the point is to win and people shouldn't complain that people are uber sweaty in a competitive mode. But people doing hardcore meta rush starts in team wars kind of kills the casual community, especially if you can tell the other players aren't very good.
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And for the record, people that rush are still tiresome little children desperate for an immediate hit of needy dope. I have nothing but contempt for them.
Or maybe they just have a desire to play a strategy other than late game lp spam?
Rushing is arguably a pretty awful strategy right now; only Voridus, Colony and YapYap can really pull it off effectively anymore. All of them lose to minimal preparation (scouts and suis/snipers and turrets).

Think of it as rock, paper, scissors ideally; rush>boom>turtle>rush. The only real difference is that you are able to scout your opponent and get an idea of which tactic they pick before they can see it fully realized. If rushing wasn't seen as a strategy only filth use, boom strategies wouldn't be seen as the gold standard of RTS by casual players and overall the game would be far healthier.

This is a game of who can outsmart the other, not who can build the most tanks.

EDIT: Just some formatting changes.
And for the record, people that rush are still tiresome little children desperate for an immediate hit of needy dope. I have nothing but contempt for them.
Or maybe they just have a desire to play a strategy other than late game lp spam?
Rushing is arguably a pretty awful strategy right now; only Voridus, Colony and YapYap can really pull it off effectively anymore. All of them lose to minimal preparation (scouts and suis/snipers and turrets).

Think of it as rock, paper, scissors ideally; rush>boom>turtle>rush. The only real difference is that you are able to scout your opponent and get an idea of which tactic they pick before they can see it fully realized. If rushing wasn't seen as a strategy only filth use, boom strategies wouldn't be seen as the gold standard of RTS by casual players and overall the game would be far healthier.

This is a game of who can outsmart the other, not who can build the most tanks.

EDIT: Just some formatting changes.
Fair comment but whenever I manage to defeat a rush, the opponent invariably resigns because their quick fix win didn't pay off.

Because of that, I find it hard to apply the strategic nobility that you want to apply to these fast food fools.
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