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Late game covenant advantage

OP McGruder

i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
You’ve never seen late game Isabel or Forge, have you?

Edit - The Johny, too.
There are no Covenant, only Banished.

On a more serious note, UNSC on average has a miles better early game, so that's where you want to try and keep things. The banished are generally better after they get their leader points ticked up, so just work on harassing them before that happens.

As Kinsano you shouldn't so much be trying to rush down their bases as you should be trying to dominate the map and keep them in a corner. Target their mini bases, burn them a bit, then run away and hit another one.

If you can micro your units well enough then there shouldn't be as much of an issue with dealing with most of the Banished LPs. The Balance Beam is the exception as at tier three it just melts everything, but that's due to it being broken, not so much to it being naturally unfair.

The other other thing is with UNSC most of your units are almost strictly better than the Banished equivalent, to help level the playing field the Banished have better or more pronounced active Leader Abilities to use.
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McGruder wrote:
i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
Unsc has a clear advantage over the banished early game. Late game is where the banished can shine, however the reason that the decimus was able to wipe your armies so easily, is because tier three glassing beam is near game breaking and that much is a fact. Almost all banished factions struggle early against unsc rushes, and if you're getting early troops destroyed by leader powers, spread your troops out. I also have heard kinsano may well be the worst leader in the game at this point
UNSC Late game is dependant on which leader you're fighting, same with banished late game. UNSC late game can be easy or a nightmare depending on who you're fighting (Johnson for example can make his mechs, which not only include the leader unit, mantises, and the colossus, it even extends to Cyclopes, invincible, drop shielded garrisons, drop siege turrets, has a leader power that makes turrets more effective in addition to shortening the wait time of bunkers and siege turret drops and making said drops cheaper), Banished only have a slight advantage across the board as their turrets are jack of all trades, master of none, and have shield and cloaking towers. The banished leaders do tend to have a late game oriented kit, or powers that can easily apply (Combat repair for colony with skitterers buffed with vehicle symbiotes in addition to the brand and two drops), but that doesn't necessarily mean all are good late game (I.E. Voridus' cataclysm being useless after a while as it's his only late game nuke and it can be avoided or requires maelstrom to effectively use it).

If you're complaining about UNSC late game, maybe you need to stop trying to turtle with Cutter.
McGruder wrote:
i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
Unsc has a clear advantage over the banished early game. Late game is where the banished can shine, however the reason that the decimus was able to wipe your armies so easily, is because tier three glassing beam is near game breaking and that much is a fact. Almost all banished factions struggle early against unsc rushes, and if you're getting early troops destroyed by leader powers, spread your troops out. I also have heard kinsano may well be the worst leader in the game at this point
Gotcha yes I pressure very effectively microing units on different parts of the map. I have a pretty high win percentage going back and forth from diamond 6 to onyx. So even if kinsano is worst in the game I’m realitvley effective with her being to get all over the map at tech 2. This game just went deep and I harrased and harrased. It’s frutrating that leader powers can be used so quickly on banished over unsc. Inferno has like a 3-4 min cool off or more. All of kinsano leader powers have a long cool off it seams. Every 2-3 min I would press I got wiped out by leader powers every time and that’s at all my units tech 3z. Just frustrating of the broken leader power on banished side.
Kinsano isn't bad. She's just hard countered by meta.
McGruder wrote:
McGruder wrote:
i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
Unsc has a clear advantage over the banished early game. Late game is where the banished can shine, however the reason that the decimus was able to wipe your armies so easily, is because tier three glassing beam is near game breaking and that much is a fact. Almost all banished factions struggle early against unsc rushes, and if you're getting early troops destroyed by leader powers, spread your troops out. I also have heard kinsano may well be the worst leader in the game at this point
Gotcha yes I pressure very effectively microing units on different parts of the map. I have a pretty high win percentage going back and forth from diamond 6 to onyx. So even if kinsano is worst in the game I’m realitvley effective with her being to get all over the map at tech 2. This game just went deep and I harrased and harrased. It’s frutrating that leader powers can be used so quickly on banished over unsc. Inferno has like a 3-4 min cool off or more. All of kinsano leader powers have a long cool off it seams. Every 2-3 min I would press I got wiped out by leader powers every time and that’s at all my units tech 3z. Just frustrating of the broken leader power on banished side.
I play strictly the banished and I can honestly say that the tier three glassing beak should not be in the game in the form it's in currently
Kinsano isn't bad. She's just hard countered by meta.
Out of curiosity, how so?
I'm assuming you're just meaning flame hogs being weaker than standard hogs.
Kinsano isn't bad. She's just hard countered by meta.
Out of curiosity, how so?
I'm assuming you're just meaning flame hogs being weaker than standard hogs.
Atriox, Forge, Ship, and Jerome all annihilate her. She can handle Anders on some maps, but even then as for the others it's a struggle. Once they're brought into line Kinsano will be much better. Flamehogs T2 are weaker than normal Hogs, but on T3 they are much more powerful, so there's a balance in that regard.
UNSC Late game is dependant on which leader you're fighting, same with banished late game. UNSC late game can be easy or a nightmare depending on who you're fighting (Johnson for example can make his mechs, which not only include the leader unit, mantises, and the colossus, it even extends to Cyclopes, invincible, drop shielded garrisons, drop siege turrets, has a leader power that makes turrets more effective in addition to shortening the wait time of bunkers and siege turret drops and making said drops cheaper), Banished only have a slight advantage across the board as their turrets are jack of all trades, master of none, and have shield and cloaking towers. The banished leaders do tend to have a late game oriented kit, or powers that can easily apply (Combat repair for colony with skitterers buffed with vehicle symbiotes in addition to the brand and two drops), but that doesn't necessarily mean all are good late game (I.E. Voridus' cataclysm being useless after a while as it's his only late game nuke and it can be avoided or requires maelstrom to effectively use it).

If you're complaining about UNSC late game, maybe you need to stop trying to turtle with Cutter.
I’m complaining about late game supperoir obviously advantages. I never ever play as cutter. My avg game is less then 10 min my win % is 64%! Not sure who’s stats ur looking at. I hate to turtle in any game but sometimes u okay a good opponant and the game drags on. Where the banished Are by far undermatched at tech 3!
How are the Banished outmatched at T3 when you can just use a Hunter, maurauder/wraith, reaver ball to eat the map? Or am I misinterpreting what's been written
McGruder wrote:
i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
I mean kinsano is an early game hero and wrecks most banished players early game and mid game so she should struggle against banished late game or any late game hero for that matter. Also UNSC players get snipers early which outclass banished suicide grunts and because of this UNSC players can always have map control if they want to spend the resources. And while Banished get shield generators and cloaking towers they need units at the base to take advantage of them making attacking risky as the base turrets aren't very powerful and can't deter an army for long. This makes their bases super weak to air raids when their are no units at their base. Also Unsc base turrets are much more powerful and deal with banish armies very well if they are specked correctly even if they have no units at base. A Unsc base covered in anti air turrets do work against most banshee armies, and even if the base is destroyed the air raid can be greatly deminshed. I don't think the problem is the banished I think the issue is mostly just with the opness of decimus in general, but you can say the same about jerome tbh.
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McGruder wrote:
i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
I mean kinsano is an early game hero and wrecks most banished players early game and mid game so she should struggle against banished late game or any late game hero for that matter. Also UNSC players get snipers early which outclass banished suicide grunts and because of this UNSC players can always have map control if they want to spend the resources. And while Banished get shield generators and cloaking towers they need units at the base to take advantage of them making attacking risky as the base turrets aren't very powerful and can't deter an army for long. This makes their bases super weak to air raids when their are no units at their base. Also Unsc base turrets are much more powerful and deal with banish armies very well if they are specked correctly even if they have no units at base. A Unsc base covered in anti air turrets do work against most banshee armies, and even if the base is destroyed the air raid can be greatly deminshed. I don't think the problem is the banished I think the issue is mostly just with the opness of decimus in general, but you can say the same about jerome tbh.
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Don't forget that the air raids actually can whittle down AA turrets very quickly while only losing 3-4 out of a large force if it's Banshees. Air raids are kinda frustrating so it's really a moot point that either side can do.
There are no Covenant, only Banished.

On a more serious note, UNSC on average has a miles better early game, so that's where you want to try and keep things. The banished are generally better after they get their leader points ticked up, so just work on harassing them before that happens.

As Kinsano you shouldn't so much be trying to rush down their bases as you should be trying to dominate the map and keep them in a corner. Target their mini bases, burn them a bit, then run away and hit another one.

If you can micro your units well enough then there shouldn't be as much of an issue with dealing with most of the Banished LPs. The Balance Beam is the exception as at tier three it just melts everything, but that's due to it being broken, not so much to it being naturally unfair.

The other other thing is with UNSC most of your units are almost strictly better than the Banished equivalent, to help level the playing field the Banished have better or more pronounced active Leader Abilities to use.
I dont know where you got this information but Banished are ultimately better unit wise. UNSC has CT Marines, Hornets, and Kodiak that are better but that is core units, not hard counters. Banished have Rangers, which beat infantry and only a little better than Snipers; Hunter, who actually beat tanks and t2 alike while Cyclopes cant beat core vehicles in any number unless they are Cyclope from Cutter's drop; Wraiths, which are better than Scorpions because they can kite; scouts and wolfs are laughable for UNSC compared their banished counterparts. I even find uses for Scarabs but cant get a Condor to live long enough to make up for it's cost. Banished have everything from early to late game. Only Jerome, Anders, and Forge are really good right now but only because of leaders powers and heroes.
There are no Covenant, only Banished.

On a more serious note, UNSC on average has a miles better early game, so that's where you want to try and keep things. The banished are generally better after they get their leader points ticked up, so just work on harassing them before that happens.

As Kinsano you shouldn't so much be trying to rush down their bases as you should be trying to dominate the map and keep them in a corner. Target their mini bases, burn them a bit, then run away and hit another one.

If you can micro your units well enough then there shouldn't be as much of an issue with dealing with most of the Banished LPs. The Balance Beam is the exception as at tier three it just melts everything, but that's due to it being broken, not so much to it being naturally unfair.

The other other thing is with UNSC most of your units are almost strictly better than the Banished equivalent, to help level the playing field the Banished have better or more pronounced active Leader Abilities to use.
I dont know where you got this information but Banished are ultimately better unit wise. UNSC has CT Marines, Hornets, and Kodiak that are better but that is core units, not hard counters. Banished have Rangers, which beat infantry and only a little better than Snipers; Hunter, who actually beat tanks and t2 alike while Cyclopes cant beat core vehicles in any number unless they are Cyclope from Cutter's drop; Wraiths, which are better than Scorpions because they can kite; scouts and wolfs are laughable for UNSC compared their banished counterparts. I even find uses for Scarabs but cant get a Condor to live long enough to make up for it's cost. Banished have everything from early to late game. Only Jerome, Anders, and Forge are really good right now but only because of leaders powers and heroes.
Banished have better counter units but UNSC have better core units which balances the game as the core units don't cost any power and won't set you back techwise. Also usnc get their artillery early and their snipers one tech early which can command the game via map control. I would argue the only hero on the banished that is absurdly op is decimus everyone else has their weaknesses at certain points of the game (decimus has no weaknesses). Also it is easier for unsc to go air as they can use marines to supplement their army and the fact that hornets are superior to banshees. Banished players can't counter air/siege bases with grunts (unless decimus lol) and suicide grunts and elite rangers are worthless against air units making the marines hard to counter unless you use vehicles which are slow expensive and can be suppressed against siege turrets late and mid game. I know you are a great player but if the banished didn't have better counters the whole game would just be marines and hornet spam and johnson mantis spam.
McGruder wrote:
i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
I mean kinsano is an early game hero and wrecks most banished players early game and mid game so she should struggle against banished late game or any late game hero for that matter. Also UNSC players get snipers early which outclass banished suicide grunts and because of this UNSC players can always have map control if they want to spend the resources. And while Banished get shield generators and cloaking towers they need units at the base to take advantage of them making attacking risky as the base turrets aren't very powerful and can't deter an army for long. This makes their bases super weak to air raids when their are no units at their base. Also Unsc base turrets are much more powerful and deal with banish armies very well if they are specked correctly even if they have no units at base. A Unsc base covered in anti air turrets do work against most banshee armies, and even if the base is destroyed the air raid can be greatly deminshed. I don't think the problem is the banished I think the issue is mostly just with the opness of decimus in general, but you can say the same about jerome tbh.
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Don't forget that the air raids actually can whittle down AA turrets very quickly while only losing 3-4 out of a large force if it's Banshees. Air raids are kinda frustrating so it's really a moot point that either side can do.
Yeah but you do have to go out of the way to destroy those turrets which buys the other team time to recuperate/drop a heal on the base. With banished base turrets you can literally just ignore them and wipe out the base.
There are no Covenant, only Banished.

On a more serious note, UNSC on average has a miles better early game, so that's where you want to try and keep things. The banished are generally better after they get their leader points ticked up, so just work on harassing them before that happens.

As Kinsano you shouldn't so much be trying to rush down their bases as you should be trying to dominate the map and keep them in a corner. Target their mini bases, burn them a bit, then run away and hit another one.

If you can micro your units well enough then there shouldn't be as much of an issue with dealing with most of the Banished LPs. The Balance Beam is the exception as at tier three it just melts everything, but that's due to it being broken, not so much to it being naturally unfair.

The other other thing is with UNSC most of your units are almost strictly better than the Banished equivalent, to help level the playing field the Banished have better or more pronounced active Leader Abilities to use.
I dont know where you got this information but Banished are ultimately better unit wise. UNSC has CT Marines, Hornets, and Kodiak that are better but that is core units, not hard counters. Banished have Rangers, which beat infantry and only a little better than Snipers; Hunter, who actually beat tanks and t2 alike while Cyclopes cant beat core vehicles in any number unless they are Cyclope from Cutter's drop; Wraiths, which are better than Scorpions because they can kite; scouts and wolfs are laughable for UNSC compared their banished counterparts. I even find uses for Scarabs but cant get a Condor to live long enough to make up for it's cost. Banished have everything from early to late game. Only Jerome, Anders, and Forge are really good right now but only because of leaders powers and heroes.
Banished have better counter units but UNSC have better core units which balances the game as the core units don't cost any power and won't set you back techwise. Also usnc get their artillery early and their snipers one tech early which can command the game via map control. I would argue the only hero on the banished that is absurdly op is decimus everyone else has their weaknesses at certain points of the game (decimus has no weaknesses). Also it is easier for unsc to go air as they can use marines to supplement their army and the fact that hornets are superior to banshees. Banished players can't counter air/siege bases with grunts (unless decimus lol) and suicide grunts and elite rangers are worthless against air units making the marines hard to counter unless you use vehicles which are slow expensive and can be suppressed against siege turrets late and mid game. I know you are a great player but if the banished didn't have better counters the whole game would just be marines and hornet spam and johnson mantis spam.
Yes. Its true. their counter cost power but because Banished counter Units are not only "generally" better but their cost effective so its more than worth it. Which army do you think builds faster? one that requires just supplies or one that cost both supplies and power? units that cost power for banished excel at their job and makes their army overall better when massing. Banished counter units are being better also make mixed armies better. Even if they win a fight, their pulling resources from only 1 pool while Banished are able to balance their eco more adequately just because they are able to utilize power resources. Banished are better all the way.
McGruder wrote:
i really feel that the advantage of early game and especially late game leader powers is extremely unbalanced between unsc and cov. I usually play kinsano and most of my games don’t go late game they are usually 6-14 min on avg. however when playing cov players especially decimus the leader power advantage is ridiculous. I played a game just a while ago where I pinned my opponent to to one base. He scarabed up with artillery because I couldn’t pressure him enough even with my 4 bases and 21 supply pads. Every advance usually with a couple min I was met with glassing beam, some other glassing beam and another disable beam usually sipping everything out. Even from multiple attack points I got wiped out every time and I usually would take several of his base pads out but apparently he had enough recourses to counter with leader powers and a scarab. I do know u cannot defend like this with one base with unsc on any level. The balance of the cov leader powers really needs to be looked at both early and late game. It’s super frustrating that In a 3-4 min rush from unsc cov can use a leader power taking out most of a unsc early rush and there is nothing on unsc side to counter.
I mean kinsano is an early game hero and wrecks most banished players early game and mid game so she should struggle against banished late game or any late game hero for that matter. Also UNSC players get snipers early which outclass banished suicide grunts and because of this UNSC players can always have map control if they want to spend the resources. And while Banished get shield generators and cloaking towers they need units at the base to take advantage of them making attacking risky as the base turrets aren't very powerful and can't deter an army for long. This makes their bases super weak to air raids when their are no units at their base. Also Unsc base turrets are much more powerful and deal with banish armies very well if they are specked correctly even if they have no units at base. A Unsc base covered in anti air turrets do work against most banshee armies, and even if the base is destroyed the air raid can be greatly deminshed. I don't think the problem is the banished I think the issue is mostly just with the opness of decimus in general, but you can say the same about jerome tbh.
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Don't forget that the air raids actually can whittle down AA turrets very quickly while only losing 3-4 out of a large force if it's Banshees. Air raids are kinda frustrating so it's really a moot point that either side can do.
Yeah but you do have to go out of the way to destroy those turrets which buys the other team time to recuperate/drop a heal on the base. With banished base turrets you can literally just ignore them and wipe out the base.
UNSC air is good where it is but Banished turrets are not completely useless on the matter against vehicles and air, not to mention Reavers are also awesome. If someone goes mass air, hide 3 Reavers at your base with shield, cloak and AA turrets and you can watch air's usefulness be cut off majorly, if not entirely.