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[Locked] Leader list

OP marmy080

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New season, new tier list! Btc gave it a go, thought we might as well have another discussion as to who is 'broken/OP/nerfable'

Mine:

Tier S: Atriox, Decimus, Forge, Jerome
Tier A: Serina, Yap yap, Colony
Tier B: Shipmaster, Cutter, Johnson, Arbiter
Tier C: Anders, Isabel, Kinsano
Tier 1 Forge, Decimus, Colony, Yap Yap
Tier 2 Serena, Atriox, Arbitor, Jerome
Tier 3 Johnson, Shipmaster, Kinsano
Tier 4 Cutter, Isabel, Anders.
Tier 1: Decimus, Yap Yap, Forge, Colony
Tier 2: Atriox, Jerome, Arbitor, Serena, Shipmaster
Tier 3: Johnson, Kinsano
Tier 4: Anders, Cutter, Isabel

It's pretty wild how bad Cutter is, I won't play with him anymore. He went from a consistently viable mid tier leader to one of the worst in the game, only better than Isabel.
SWAT 79 wrote:
Tier 4: Anders, Cutter, Isabel

It's pretty wild how bad Cutter is, I won't play with him anymore. He went from a consistently viable mid tier leader to one of the worst in the game, only better than Isabel.
I sadly agree, especially as a Cutter main. He was probably the most balanced at one time. But now he needs some help..

A buff to Close Air Support maybe? Lower cooldown? Idk

Very sad that Raid got nerfed too.

Id get started with the others, but idc about them. Especially Isabelle haha
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
evils wrote:
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
Is Jerome still that good with the JR opener? I can't say I've played vs him all that much so not really had the ability to see and I don't tend to play him myself. I agree with the Decimus statement he's actually really good at killing Forgehog and this seems to be overlooked. Shame there isn't a draft type style game or he'd probably shine against Forge. Cutter I would disagree on however, I played him as my main and it's almost embarassing at how bad he is now compared to before. Honestly I'd rather have someone play Johnson or Anders than him.
NK ME wrote:
SWAT 79 wrote:
Tier 4: Anders, Cutter, Isabel

It's pretty wild how bad Cutter is, I won't play with him anymore. He went from a consistently viable mid tier leader to one of the worst in the game, only better than Isabel.
I sadly agree, especially as a Cutter main. He was probably the most balanced at one time. But now he needs some help..

A buff to Close Air Support maybe? Lower cooldown? Idk

Very sad that Raid got nerfed too.

Id get started with the others, but idc about them. Especially Isabelle haha
Breaking the Clutch did a breakdown and pretty much confirmed that Cutter is now one of the worst. It's so strange. Really what he needs is a buff to Raid and lower cooldown on all of his leader powers (besides close air support, that's fine). ODSTs are too infrequent, as are the rest of his drops.

Until they fix him, he just isn't playable or viable in a competitive atmosphere.
evils wrote:
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
Few things man.

1) Forge and Decimus are both better than Jerome, Colony is comparable to him.
2) Cutter is not a viable leader anymore. Check out Breaking the Clutch on youtube, he describes it pretty well (I'm a Cutter main, btw, and I find him to be unplayable).
evils wrote:
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
I agree with your list, but i was wondering. Have you matched his jr against choppers yet? I havent heard anything about their viability yet
Anders and Ship are too low.
Hi, everyone.

I think these tiers in HW2 are based in usage. My opinion may bring some criticis.m and may also be a target from other comments saying I'm wrong, but that's just my opinion and I'll ignore any kind of judgement, in fact, will respect it all. When making the tiers, it's being considered 'how powerful' a leader is considering the current patches and changes, but, again, i smash the same thesis: i think that the leaders that are being considered low-tier or unviable are just not being as much used as they should. It's hard to identify the full potential of something when there are paradigms taking us to do diferente actions and hiding any kind of information that could come from a diferente source. You guys know a lot of the game and say many useful things that make sense. But my point is that any leader can be viable considering it's way to play. I'm considering a 1v1 perspective. Tiers are most used to define champions in MOBA games, where theres a solid meta defining which role will fill each lane, but this is a RTS and I think the interpretation should be singular and consider only the playstyle of the player. I do consider inconsistencies, leader powers and units that can make a leader stronger than other, but I think that in a mathematical perspective it wouldn't be more than 5% or something like this. So it's a kind of advantage that can be mitigated by the correct playstyle of each leader.

I'm kinda new to the game and I'm trying to see it like the others RTS i've played in the past (SC BW, SC 2, CQ, AoE, AoM). But I know there are many other players here in this fórum that are very experien.t in this game. The players that have more matches, more playtime and a unique knowledge of how the game Works. I would like to propose to these more experien.t guys to try playing for a determined period of time with each of these leaders called 'low tier'. I'm sure that during the gameplay they would break some of the paradigms installed by the gameplay of other leaders (the ones called 'OP) and start making a legitimate and unique strategy to beat the game. Some guys are getting too much attracted to what feels 'wrong' and not in how to overcome the obstacles of the game and start thinking as a RTS game, making strategies, microing and macroing. I saw some streams of high rank guys in this game and even those were basically hitting double RB, attacking and spamming the leader powers against the enemy units (considering counter unit). They win, yes, they are used to it and are experiente. But I dont see na intense use of grouping and microing like I was used in SC2, which this game also give the possibility to use (just 4 groups but that's kinda enough since we can swap bases my other button). Just a thought I'd like to share with you guys. Hope it contribute positively to the post, which is Always a health way to discuss and get more knowledge from others.

A good citation coming from a metalurgic engineering Education article ilustrates what I tried to expose here, which says: "The multidisciplinarity stands out here as one of the main sources of solutions for the problems, as a single object its evaluated from several views of different subjects. The comprehension of the system and the identification of its mostly significant elements depends of the acquaintance, experience and ability of the specialist" (Sakurada & Miyake, 2009).

Kyltz.
SWAT 79 wrote:
evils wrote:
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
Few things man.

1) Forge and Decimus are both better than Jerome, Colony is comparable to him.
2) Cutter is not a viable leader anymore. Check out Breaking the Clutch on youtube, he describes it pretty well (I'm a Cutter main, btw, and I find him to be unplayable).
I would disagree, my dude. Jerome walks all over Forge in the early game. Surrounding with JR's then punishing with the Mantis makes quick work of the Hog. Then it's just a matter of maintaining the advantage. Decimus is great at killing the Mantis, but that's about it. Decimus really struggles against inspired JR's. Coupling the Mantis with JR's walks all over Decimus, at least in my experience thus far. Colony is tough to fight as Jerome, but I usually opt for Grenade Marines when I fight colony. With the help of the Mantis, marines run through the Captain.

I have mainly used Cutter since season 1, and I would have to disagree again. CAS and his drops are still excellent. His early game is no where near what it used to be, and moreover, he struggles by having a weaker hero unit, but he is usable, in my opinion. I've been doing rather well with him as of late.

Just my opinion though, my man :).
evils wrote:
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
I agree with your list, but i was wondering. Have you matched his jr against choppers yet? I havent heard anything about their viability yet
I usually open with Jerome + JR's as support, and I've had no trouble with Choppers yet. Choppers make quick work of the Mantis via their Ram ability, but that's about the only danger they present. I think inspired JR's will beat Choppers, but I've yet to have that exact match up, so I'm not positive. I'll have to get back to you on that.
evils wrote:
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
Is Jerome still that good with the JR opener? I can't say I've played vs him all that much so not really had the ability to see and I don't tend to play him myself. I agree with the Decimus statement he's actually really good at killing Forgehog and this seems to be overlooked. Shame there isn't a draft type style game or he'd probably shine against Forge. Cutter I would disagree on however, I played him as my main and it's almost embarassing at how bad he is now compared to before. Honestly I'd rather have someone play Johnson or Anders than him.
I always couple JR's with the Mantis. The Mantis just hits so hard, I love it. The JR's are used to protect the Mantis; I always keep them in front of the Mantis to absorb damage (T1 Mantis is pretty flimsy). Plus, they provide some good damage, and can chase down any fleeing units. Idk, man. I'm still doing well with Cutter. I think he's mid tier, at least.
evils wrote:
SWAT 79 wrote:
evils wrote:
S: Jerome, YapYap
A: Forge, Atriox, Colony, Decimus
B: Serina, Shipmaster, Cutter, Arbiter
C: Kinsano, Johnson
D: Anders, Isabel

Notes:

-Jerome is top-tier, in my opinion. Not much seems to be able to combat his mantis + JR's in the early game. His mid game is phenomenal, and Omega Team at ~10 minutes is game ending. All around great leader.
-I'm not a fan of YapYap; just not my play style. But, after seeing what others are capable of doing with him, I believe he's an excellent leader
-I wanted to put Decimus in S tier, but I only really find him good because of Warlord + Vortex Everything else about feels meh to me
-Forge feels in a good spot now. I can reliably kill the Hog with most leaders. Still strong, though
-I want to put Shipmaster higher up, but I find his early game so weak. The only reliable opener he seems to have is Ghosts, which are relatively easy to deal with. His mid-late game is still phenomenal, though
-Cutter I'm still not sure about. He's not what he used to be, but I find him to still be somewhat viable
-Arbitor lacks in the late game, in my opinion, so that's what holds him back
-Kinsano and Johnson are one or two buffs from being excellent leaders. I hope to see them doing better one day
-Anders and Isabel just.... suck

thanks for reading :).
Few things man.

1) Forge and Decimus are both better than Jerome, Colony is comparable to him.
2) Cutter is not a viable leader anymore. Check out Breaking the Clutch on youtube, he describes it pretty well (I'm a Cutter main, btw, and I find him to be unplayable).
I would disagree, my dude. Jerome walks all over Forge in the early game. Surrounding with JR's then punishing with the Mantis makes quick work of the Hog. Then it's just a matter of maintaining the advantage. Decimus is great at killing the Mantis, but that's about it. Decimus really struggles against inspired JR's. Coupling the Mantis with JR's walks all over Decimus, at least in my experience thus far. Colony is tough to fight as Jerome, but I usually opt for Grenade Marines when I fight colony. With the help of the Mantis, marines run through the Captain.

I have mainly used Cutter since season 1, and I would have to disagree again. CAS and his drops are still excellent. His early game is no where near what it used to be, and moreover, he struggles by having a weaker hero unit, but he is usable, in my opinion. I've been doing rather well with him as of late.

Just my opinion though, my man :).
Can you pm me? I have a few questions about builds for Jerome.
YaoYap and Forge need to be on top of every other leader. You can't put any other side by side of these two.
I don't find YapYap all that to be honest. Snipers destroy his Goblins, and any anti infantry I find can pretty much take care of him. Especially as Serena. He sure is fun to play as though.

I haven't had a game as Cutter in a while but I find his Veteran Leader Power pays off if you do hit and runs. Once you have an army of veteraned hornets you're pretty good to go.
Cutter is not in a great place simply because they over nerfed him. There was no reason to nerf his raid that hard a few patches ago. I believe they nerfed Cutter like that to hopefully make other UNSC leaders more playable or if I remember this was coupled with buffs to flamers. The main issue is that no other unsc leaders got better besides Forge (who got a huge buff). The devs need to realize that sometimes the best thing to do is not to nerf a leader into the ground but buff the other leaders instead.
Low tier- Isabel (I love her, but she's bad), Anders (Sentinels haven't been good for a long time)

Mid tier- Kinsano (is just meh), Arbiter (Enforcers are predictable and in-game Arby sucks)

Semi-high tier- Johnson (Bunker rush is predictable and the Mantis is too slow), Cutter (Raid nerf hit him hard), Atriox (Bulwark too expensive, early game is bad), Shipmaster (bad early game, great late game)

High tier- Jerome (Commantis is slow but range is crazy + great leader powers), Serina (Freezing abilities are all great), Colony (Skitterers too expensive but leader powers make it up), Forge (Hog is still good but not OP, rolling eco is great)

OP tier- Decimus (Warlord kills everything, Boundless Siphon actually works now), Yapyap (Soooo many shade turrets, hussle is great, free stuff, wagons debuff is OP)

That's my take on it. Basically... Buff Isabel, Sentinels, Arby (the unit), Mantis, Kinsano leader powers, Cutter's Raid, Bulwark, and Honor Guard. Nerf Warlord (hurts me to say that because I love him), shade turrets, hussle, and methane wagons.
Tier 1: Forge, YapYap
Tier 2: Decimus, Jerome, Serina
Tier 3: Colony, Arbiter
Tier 4: Atriox, Shipmaster, Johnson
Tier 5: Cutter, Anders, Isabel, Kinsano

I'm not sure any leader right now beats a well played YapYap, Wagons/Locusts are stupid powerful, and Forge still needs to be scaled back a bit. Aside from those two Jerome's JRs in the right hands would still be an issue if not for the fact that Serina/Forge/YapYap managed to out OP him the last two seasons, so those still need to be dealt with. Other than that, Arbiter's hero needs some love, and the bottom tier UNSC could use a bone thrown their way. Last season and this season seem like an absolute joke compared to most of the other ones, aside from maybe season 1. Timing wise though it couldn't be better for me, since I spent all of last season out of town for work, and I just went and got LoZ: BOTW which will keep me occupied through this blight of a season.
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