Forums / Games / Halo Wars Series

Mid-Season 10 balance patch prep thread

OP Postums

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 4
Postums wrote:
For 5, I'm pretty sure he means air vs vehicles too, not "anti-vehicle infantry units" alone. I think a slight 5% (don't wanna go overboard) air vs vehicle damage multiplier buff would be decent. They damage they do right now isn't good, but it's not downright terrible either.

Weren't Cyclops and Hunters pretty oppressive to vehicles at some point? They're in a good spot right now imo. A squad of them can noticeably chunk tanks, but they can't 1v1 vehicles, as they're infantry, and should be taking more damage (this is good). And I really don't think that Cyclops need a buff, even though I primarily play UNSC, and would love free buffs. Their on-hit slow upgrade is really good for making picks on vehicles. If you get hit by them, chances escaping are non-existent.

Edit: IIRC the "anti-vehicle infantry units" have a decent health pool too, or the Hunters at least.
You make a good point with the Cyclops. I meant to say that Cyclops (might) need some help in some way, but I still think they can do their job to an extent. I agree that Hunters' health is fine, which was why I thought about health for Cyclops. I don't think Cyclops should out-perform Hunters, so if a minimal health boost does that, I would rather Cyclops remain as they are now.

If they decide to buff air against vehicles, it NEEDS to exclude wolves and reavers. The AA vs air situation is pretty much solved, so they should leave that alone for now.
Cleansing Beam.... Kills up to 4 building ... well done 343
  • AA need their secondary weapon DPS toned down
  • Hunters need more damage
  • Cyclops need more speed and health
  • Infantry could use base damage reduction
  • Reduction of detect range to 50-60% of unit base LoS.
As for new Johnson buff ideas:

Remote Sensors should increase the attack range of
  1. Turrets
  2. Detect range of Sensor Tower
  3. Mech units and Kodiaks
  4. Units garrisoned inside bunker (stacks with hero unit and Cyclopes)
AYF 001 wrote:
  • AA need their secondary weapon DPS toned down
  • Hunters need more damage
  • Cyclops need more speed and health
  • Infantry could use base damage reduction
  • Reduction of detect range to 50-60% of unit base LoS.
As for new Johnson buff ideas:

Remote Sensors should increase the attack range of
  1. Turrets
  2. Detect range of Sensor Tower
  3. Mech units and Kodiaks
  4. Units garrisoned inside bunker (stacks with hero unit and Cyclopes)
Curious, why do you think Johnson needs a bugg? Perhaps I have just been unfortunate in coming across rather good johnson players but his mech armies once you get good tech are hard to beat.
Ado Ulamee wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
  • AA need their secondary weapon DPS toned down
  • Hunters need more damage
  • Cyclops need more speed and health
  • Infantry could use base damage reduction
  • Reduction of detect range to 50-60% of unit base LoS.
As for new Johnson buff ideas:

Remote Sensors should increase the attack range of
  1. Turrets
  2. Detect range of Sensor Tower
  3. Mech units and Kodiaks
  4. Units garrisoned inside bunker (stacks with hero unit and Cyclopes)
Curious, why do you think Johnson needs a bugg? Perhaps I have just been unfortunate in coming across rather good johnson players but his mech armies once you get good tech are hard to beat.
I've been mainly playing Johnson since he came out, and spent a lot of time analyzing his units and powers. (Possibly due to listening to my feedback) his Mantises and Colossi are now a lot stronger and hold their own often enough, but in terms of leader powers, he's still outclassed by most other leaders.

Pretty much every top-tier leader has powers that synergize with each other, while also focusing on one particular aspect of gameplay. Arby has CoR stacking, Anders has Sentinels & Research, Forge has Grizzlies with vehicle production and economic discounts, and Decimus has buffs, buffs, and more buffs. Johnson, on the other hand, has a bunch of powers that all try to do separate things, few overlap with each other, are only useful in certain situations, and most have been outclassed by later leaders released. Why use Remote Sensors for structures when Jerome's first power, Recon Training, grants every one of his units extended vision too? Why wait 2 minutes per Bunker when Jerome, Arbiter, or Pavium can build mobile bunkers (transports) that can also attack, and be healed by friendly Combat Tech Marines?

It's obviously possible to win as Johnson, but a bunch of leaders are arguably hard counters to his units/abilities as well. Serina can chill his mechs even when Overcharge is active, Kinsano is great at burning his bunkers and turrets down, and Decimus' hammer makes short work of any mech armies early T2. I think that increasing the utility of his leader powers, by making his passives more useful and decreasing cooldowns on his other powers would be needed to make his defenses strongholds (but not in a "lol all my bases are indestructible for 30 seconds while my transports kill your whole army" kind of cheap).

Oh, perhaps consider increasing the number of siege turrets dropped on his Lvl2 point. Having 1 that lasts a while isn't that useful, compared to Forge getting 2 veteran Kodiaks + Warthog, so having 2-3 for the second point might make it more intimidating. Shrouds/Nightingales can still negate them, so I'd hardly consider that OP.
Please nerf CoR and arbiter leader to the ground
1st, I know this is kinda negligible and not very important, but can we get rid of the 50 cost on armories? I don't see a need for it.
2nd I'd like to see another buff for enduring salvo
Thanks!
A few things off the top of my head.

Mid to late game marines too powerfulThis one is pretty obvious, marines are able to remain cost effective against vehicles

Please be careful if/when tweaking CT Marines... they still need to have some viability mid and late game, otherwise we will be back to where infantry is useless late game. Core units should be somewhat viable during all stages of the game, this includes core infantry. I agree they should not dominate core vehicles, but they still should be good against air and buildings. Just their interaction vs. vehicles is off.
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
No offense guys, but I feel like a lot of these requests are centered around anecdotal evidence . Saying that "x" needs a buff or nerf, just because you like to play "x," or you don't like them for some reason, definitely isn't grounds for a buff/nerf. Not to say that they're all wrong, but as Postums had said, proof would be nice.
Voridus please, just help him man that Infusion is too interesting to go to waste.
Pleaseeeeeeeee nerf suicide grunts, if somebody mixes them into their army like the center they're border line impossible to kill. they sprint way too fast when they go to attack meaning you don't have enough time to split, and that's if they don't just get tp'd onto your units. i personally think lowering their sprint speed would help a lot and altering their splash. I understand they're suicides and sacrifice themselves for high damage, but when 4 squads get dropped on an infantry army and either kills them all or leaves them all red it's just ridiculous.
Pleaseeeeeeeee nerf suicide grunts, if somebody mixes them into their army like the center they're border line impossible to kill. they sprint way too fast when they go to attack meaning you don't have enough time to split, and that's if they don't just get tp'd onto your units. i personally think lowering their sprint speed would help a lot and altering their splash. I understand they're suicides and sacrifice themselves for high damage, but when 4 squads get dropped on an infantry army and either kills them all or leaves them all red it's just ridiculous.
If you nerf Suicides you can say goodbye to Banished at T1. They'd never make it past UNSC
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
Can there be a hot fix with this beam garbage? It's ruining the game for me.

Someone said in this thread "keep it the way it is for units, people need to learn to split" so now if spend 700 or 600 or whatever it is on a vulture or tank...that's a waste cause the beam will easily run those down because they are too slow and splitting doesn't matter. Nevertheless, it shouldn't have THAT much damage on units, even you catch the beam and do whatever you can to split. Maybe on the final point, but it's waaaayyy to powerful. And we already know the cheese it does to bases.
DA Cleric wrote:
A few things off the top of my head.

Mid to late game marines too powerfulThis one is pretty obvious, marines are able to remain cost effective against vehicles

Please be careful if/when tweaking CT Marines... they still need to have some viability mid and late game, otherwise we will be back to where infantry is useless late game. Core units should be somewhat viable during all stages of the game, this includes core infantry. I agree they should not dominate core vehicles, but they still should be good against air and buildings. Just their interaction vs. vehicles is off.
I don't disagree, but Marauders and warthogs have trouble with them and they're the soft counter. By the time a Banished player gets to tech 2 there is a significant number of marines that are already fielded with CT only 30 seconds behind if they are doing an infantry focused build and combined with the marauders long production time (24s base I believe) keeping up with marauders is impossible unless you manage to get at least a double pump while rushing to Logistics 2 (Which means taking a second base or at least a two slot minibase to do realistically). Wraiths/Scorpions have no problem with marines as they should so really they probably just need a slight nerf to damage against tier 2 vehicles at most 10% or a buff to maruder/warthog damage to core infantry, though increasing that would also effect grunts which are far less of a problem for vehicles to deal with.
1st, I know this is kinda negligible and not very important, but can we get rid of the 50 cost on armories? I don't see a need for it.
2nd I'd like to see another buff for enduring salvo
Thanks!
I would also appreciated the 50 power cost of armories removed. Any rationale as to why this was done in the first place? Hero openers could use a little help.
Postums wrote:
Please make feedback in a form as close to what follows as possible.I feel this way (opinion)This is why (proof)This is also why and a Reasonable conclusion (additional proof)
I have highlighted the very important and seemingly overlooked ask in many of the current responses. Please update your comments if you did not include these things and instead chose to just type out something you want with none of the included information.

Cheers,
Postums
So I'm mainly concerned with fixing broken things, but there are underpowered leaders that need help as well. Namely Voridus and Serina. These are my proposed changes:

Voridus:

-Give Brute Grenadiers +1 speed. As of now, they're expensive, slow, and do meh DPS. Their biggest perk is how they explode upon death, but the void left by the absence of suicide grunts is still very much felt. Giving them +1 speed would allow them to actually take a few favorable engagements instead of getting left in the dust.

-Give Voridus another 5% health increase. He was recently buffed, but I haven't noticed a difference. Voridus' only purpose is to spread goo, and that hasn't changed. No competitive player will build him in T1. Making him a bit more beefy will give Voridus more diverse build orders and openers.

And this is just my opinion, but maybe increase the affects of Infusion Tech. I'm not certain (so tests should be done), but fully upgraded vehicles and air units don't die to an Infusion Tech II Cata Maelstrom combo, which is crazy as I put 4 points into that.

Serina:

-Change Frostraven power cost from 100 to 50. These things aren't ever seen competitively, and it's not only because they're not necessarily good units. It's mainly because they're insanely overpriced.

-Buff Cryotroopers. As of now, you need quite a mass of them in order to do good damage vs structures. They're also a very predictable play, as Serina is sub-par at doing virtually everything else. Being predictable, they should be good. Unfortunately, they can't even profess to be that. Giving them slight DPS buffs vs units and buildings would strengthen Serina's opener and mid-game, allowing her to make it to the later portions of the game where she's better off.

-Buff Glacial Storm. This is probably the weakest 12 o'clock in the game. Maybe increase freeze rate in order to make it a more enticing pick.
Pleaseeeeeeeee nerf suicide grunts, if somebody mixes them into their army like the center they're border line impossible to kill. they sprint way too fast when they go to attack meaning you don't have enough time to split, and that's if they don't just get tp'd onto your units. i personally think lowering their sprint speed would help a lot and altering their splash. I understand they're suicides and sacrifice themselves for high damage, but when 4 squads get dropped on an infantry army and either kills them all or leaves them all red it's just ridiculous.
If you nerf Suicides you can say goodbye to Banished at T1. They'd never make it past UNSC
I agree they should still be effective, but I just think 4 squads wiping and infantry opener then allowing the banished to counter attack with a full army is just abit unfair
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 4