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Mid-Season 10 balance patch prep thread

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I agree they should still be effective, but I just think 4 squads wiping and infantry opener then allowing the banished to counter attack with a full army is just abit unfair
If we're talking about unfair, we should talk about the fact that the UNSC is able to field snipers on t1, yet Banished can't build Elites. In fact, well-micro'd snipers shut down suicides very hard. Suis are easy to use and hard to beat. Snipers are hard to use and virtually impossible to beat in infantry on infantry engagments if the user knows what they're doing. That dynamic doesn't exactly end well for the Banished leaders.
The T1 unit interactions/balance would be awesome to focus on this next patch.

I do not think T1 balance is as simple as,
Core Infantry > Scouts > Rush Units > Core Infantry
Right now I see no point in building core Infantry if your opponent opens with scouts/rush units. In some ways this suggested interaction triange does not make sense because we want Upgraded Core Infantry to be stronger that a more expensive Vehicle (i.e. vehicles should still be a soft counter to infantry). Plus we are relying heavily on the Y ability of Core Infantry to be the counter.

Scouts should beat rush units. Scouts should trade okay-ish with un-upgraded Core Infantry. Well microed scouts should still win vs Upgraded Core Infantry, but at a huge expense to the Scout player. But we do not want scout wars.

To really achieve this we need to move scouts out of the main base into the armory (I wish we could put them in the vehicle Depot, honestly the best thing would be to have scouts replace core vehicles until you upgraded your vehicle Depot at T2 to a heavy Vehicle Depot which would then replace scouts with core vehicles). This would force more of an investment to build scouts, limit production, and still keep core infantry as the easiest thing to build at T1. And possibly adjust cost (probably will not need to).
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
That’s because tanks are still UP. We need a T3 unit pass for vehicles to bring them into a better place. Colossus are the only really solid T3 unit besides Grizzly IMO. Both scorpions and Wraiths do not feel on par with them. Grizzlies I believe are solid, but slightly over priced for what they do and Colossus are just the best in terms of all around package minus the Y ability.

But again, in time it will get ironed out for T3 vehicles.
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
It is extremely difficult to amass enough Mantis to compete with early Warthog counts. If the hog player just allows the Mantis count to build up, they deserve the consequences. It's not like it's hard to scout it, and neither are Warthogs meant to be anti vehicle.
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
It is extremely difficult to amass enough Mantis to compete with early Warthog counts. If the hog player just allows the Mantis count to build up, they deserve the consequences. It's not like it's hard to scout it, and neither are Warthogs meant to be anti vehicle.
I am not sure if this is a criticism of my playstyle or not, but I don't believe this is accurate... I have a pretty good build for double pumping hogs with Jerome and I outnumbered his manti initially but he was able to kill enough of my hogs to where I couldn't press onward. Maybe I went too early without enough hogs, but I felt Manti traded too well early on with hogs, even ramming. Not all UNSC leaders have the ability to fast produce a ton of hogs... and if he sits at his base while massing manti, his AV turrets negate the numeric advantage.
DA Cleric wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
It is extremely difficult to amass enough Mantis to compete with early Warthog counts. If the hog player just allows the Mantis count to build up, they deserve the consequences. It's not like it's hard to scout it, and neither are Warthogs meant to be anti vehicle.
I am not sure if this is a criticism of my playstyle or not, but I don't believe this is accurate... I have a pretty good build for double pumping hogs with Jerome and I outnumbered his manti initially but he was able to kill enough of my hogs to where I couldn't press onward. Maybe I went too early without enough hogs, but I felt Manti traded too well early on with hogs, even ramming. Not all UNSC leaders have the ability to fast produce a ton of hogs... and if he sits at his base while massing manti, his AV turrets negate the numeric advantage.
In many engagements it is often better to use the mobility to avoid the army and go for the players base. It could have been any of the things you mentioned, but it could have been just better to go fight to take down the vehicle depots instead of directly engage until your numbers were much greater than your opponents.
Postums wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
That’s because tanks are still UP. We need a T3 unit pass for vehicles to bring them into a better place. Colossus are the only really solid T3 unit besides Grizzly IMO. Both scorpions and Wraiths do not feel on par with them. Grizzlies I believe are solid, but slightly over priced for what they do and Colossus are just the best in terms of all around package minus the Y ability.

But again, in time it will get ironed out for T3 vehicles.
Thanks for looking at this... and yes Johnson's T2 vehicle seems to be performing best in my limited experience, and Johnson's T3 vehicle is also deadly. So, while he has a sweet T2 vehicle that is 'best of class' his T3 vehicle is also 'best of class'. Combine with the reaver problem the teammate was using... tough nut to crack. Thanks for taking a look at the T3 units.

I still hope you guys look at how dominant his manti are as well though, as they are currently incredibly effective against infantry, air and vehicles. It should have some sort of weakness. This may be over-blown by the fact that Cyclops are underperforming and tanks are as well (as you have admitted). Thanks for taking the time to respond, I was trying to format my response in the way you requested. I still cant figure out how to link recent games.
DA Cleric wrote:
Postums wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
That’s because tanks are still UP. We need a T3 unit pass for vehicles to bring them into a better place. Colossus are the only really solid T3 unit besides Grizzly IMO. Both scorpions and Wraiths do not feel on par with them. Grizzlies I believe are solid, but slightly over priced for what they do and Colossus are just the best in terms of all around package minus the Y ability.

But again, in time it will get ironed out for T3 vehicles.
Thanks for looking at this... and yes Johnson's T2 vehicle seems to be performing best in my limited experience, and Johnson's T3 vehicle is also deadly. So, while he has a sweet T2 vehicle that is 'best of class' his T3 vehicle is also 'best of class'. Combine with the reaver problem the teammate was using... tough nut to crack. Thanks for taking a look at the T3 units.

I still hope you guys look at how dominant his manti are as well though, as they are currently incredibly effective against infantry, air and vehicles. It should have some sort of weakness. This may be over-blown by the fact that Cyclops are underperforming and tanks are as well (as you have admitted). Thanks for taking the time to respond, I was trying to format my response in the way you requested. I still cant figure out how to link recent games.
Cyclops are also getting looked at, so there will be a number of things being addressed in the future. Still planning out the next patch along with many other things as the meta forms and we see how various unit comps and leaders fall into line.
DA Cleric wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I am not sure if this is a criticism of my playstyle or not, but I don't believe this is accurate... I have a pretty good build for double pumping hogs with Jerome and I outnumbered his manti initially but he was able to kill enough of my hogs to where I couldn't press onward. Maybe I went too early without enough hogs, but I felt Manti traded too well early on with hogs, even ramming. Not all UNSC leaders have the ability to fast produce a ton of hogs... and if he sits at his base while massing manti, his AV turrets negate the numeric advantage.
There is your problem. You can triple pump hogs with whatever leader. Keep upgrading your pads after you buy tier 2 and only get 1 gen for your fast tech.
If they are turtling and upgrading turrets, expand and take nodes. You'll be at higher pop counts and better upgrades and more infrastructure.
DA Cleric wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I am not sure if this is a criticism of my playstyle or not, but I don't believe this is accurate... I have a pretty good build for double pumping hogs with Jerome and I outnumbered his manti initially but he was able to kill enough of my hogs to where I couldn't press onward. Maybe I went too early without enough hogs, but I felt Manti traded too well early on with hogs, even ramming. Not all UNSC leaders have the ability to fast produce a ton of hogs... and if he sits at his base while massing manti, his AV turrets negate the numeric advantage.
There is your problem. You can triple pump hogs with whatever leader. Keep upgrading your pads after you buy tier 2 and only get 1 gen for your fast tech.
If they are turtling and upgrading turrets, expand and take nodes. You'll be at higher pop counts and better upgrades and more infrastructure.
Thanks or the tip... but we are getting further away from the point I was trying to make... Manti trade very well with hogs. They are much better against all three types of units than any other T2 unit. They even hold their own against T3 units, especially once Colossi are mixed in. I do appreciate the tip though and will factor that in for future games.
Ok here are my thoughts now I'm not the best player but I do have a good understanding of how this game works.
My thoughts are Rangers need a buff maybe add 1 ranger to the squad not 4 like the yappening just 1 see how that works and if it's op revert it back.

Someone mentioned early about Voridus hero which i thought was a solid idea, make his Y ability a mini cataclysm not nearly effective as the real cata but something man his hero is pure butt cheeks excuse my french, also maybe buff his combat spoils a tad that nerf was a bit much say 5%.

Shippy please give him 2 raids 2 for instead of 3 but don't do it like the yappening condense the 3 so he'll have the third upgrade as well for the faster vehicles.

Also i know you guys are looking at a nerf to pavium's burnout i would say don't nerf his resource production and unit production speed, only nerf one or none at all :)

Apart from that the game is pretty solid and fun right now, probably the most balanced we've had ever. I'm so glad air doesn't just dominate anymore i was so sick of that.
Thanks for all the work you guys put in to this game much appreciated.
LUCIANHEAT wrote:
Ok here are my thoughts now I'm not the best player but I do have a good understanding of how this game works.
My thoughts are Rangers need a buff maybe add 1 ranger to the squad not 4 like the yappening just 1 see how that works and if it's op revert it back.

Someone mentioned early about Voridus hero which i thought was a solid idea, make his Y ability a mini cataclysm not nearly effective as the real cata but something man his hero is pure butt cheeks excuse my french, also maybe buff his combat spoils a tad that nerf was a bit much say 5%.

Shippy please give him 2 raids 2 for instead of 3 but don't do it like the yappening condense the 3 so he'll have the third upgrade as well for the faster vehicles.

Also i know you guys are looking at a nerf to pavium's burnout i would say don't nerf his resource production and unit production speed, only nerf one or none at all :)

Apart from that the game is pretty solid and fun right now, probably the most balanced we've had ever. I'm so glad air doesn't just dominate anymore i was so sick of that.
Thanks for all the work you guys put in to this game much appreciated.
Removing the Unit Production increase on Burnout will put it in a good spot, I shouldn't have a T3 Hero with T3 Full pop Banshees under 13 minutes.
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
Mantises are a special unit, so they should perform better vs normal units. You wouldn't ask for Grizzlies to be nerfed because Anders' Scorpions lose to them. The problem used to be quite the opposite, where if you're playing as Forge or Isabel, you'll be able to pump out hogs faster and cheaper than Johnson could, their Ram would stun the whole group, and they'd be torn apart. I'll have to check again, but they can still have a tough time against other leaders who buff core vehicles.

AV are in a bad spot altogether, with them currently taking heavy losses fighting even AA, so a buff in that regard is necessary anyway. Once they can do their job properly, it shouldn't be an issue. In the meanwhile, you should have little problem being able to counter using air early T2 with the cost reductions to Banshees and Hornets.
I get that Manti are a special unit, but so are colossi, and so are flame hogs. Flame hogs got brought into line, I just feel like Manti dominate hogs more than they should, even unbuffed against buffed hogs.

I have a 60 minute game in my history where I was playing a 2v2 against a voridus and Johnson (I was Spartan Jerome and my teammate was Kinsano). We could not crack the Johnson army at all. We tried multiple things. I can live with the mechs being better than other T2 vehicles, but they were crushing tanks too in combo with Colossi... maybe I suck (likely) but I would like their strength to be looked at. I will try to figure out how to link that game here.

More along the lines, when boosted with overcharge they are invincible and shred entire armies. Manti need to be looked at, they should be relevant, but they should not dominate infantry, air and T3 vehicles. There is another thread where the question about Johnsons mechs being some of the top Anti Air is a legitimate question.
So I looked at the game stats you're referring to with Jerome vs Johnson, and while I can't see what happened exactly (replay mode plz), based on your leaders and build orders, here's what I noticed. Specifically:
  • Jerome and Kinsano have 2 of the strongest early games, yet neither of you built any rush units. If Kinsano had double pumped flamers, while you had built Jerome and more Marines, and targeted either of their bases, you could've crippled them. Instead, Kinsano built snipers while both opponents were going straight for vehicle builds.
  • Regardless of what I would consider a mistake, you still reached T2 and had multiple Warthogs before either of them had a Garage/Foundry. If you had targeted Johnson's minibase or garage together, you might've been able to take out a garage and slow his production down, or at least overwhelm his first few Mantises with superior numbers and mobility.
  • Both you and your teammate built 13 and 16 Wolverines respectively, while neither opponent even built an Air Pad or Apex. A complete waste of pop and resources.
  • Your and your teammate, on the other hand, built 4 and 7 Condors respectively, even though Voridus had already built over 2 dozen of them before the first Condor was completed, and Johnson would soon start to produce in large quantities as well. You repeatedly walked right into your direct counter, and though it would somehow end well.
  • By the time you started building Scorpions, your opponents likely had researched most, if not all of the Vehicle Level upgrades. I'd also bet a number of their vehicles had veterancy at that point, so your fresh tanks would have been at a major disadvantage.
  • You and your teammate had to build your hero units 11 and 7 times respectively, compared to Johnson and Voridus' 2 and 4. That means yours almost certainly never got veterancy while theirs likely did, and you had to constantly spend resources to keep rebuilding yours.
  • Kinsano's Flame Hogs are meant to specialize against infantry and buildings, yet neither opponent had much infantry the whole game. Mainly they could be better against those, but a Warthog with a single flamethrower shouldn't be defeating a shielded mech with gatling cannons and guided missiles regardless.
  • This is purely statistical, but you and your teammate both had higher CSRs & win rates than your opponents. You and your teammate were using 2 of your main leaders against people who were using leaders in their "other" category.
  • Comparing the curves of the pop counter over time, it appears you mainly fought Johnson, while Kinsano fought Voridus. Kinsano is a stronger leader against Johnson's building-based powers, and Jerome's extra vision can avoid Voridus' goo attacks.
In conclusion, you and your teammate failed to effectively take advantage of your Leaders' early game strengths, giving them the chance to hit their mid-game strong sports. You also decided to both fight the leaders of you were weaker against, reducing the advantage your units and powers had yet again. Despite facing opponents who were quite likely less skilled than either of you, your army compositions were so completely unsuited to fighting their builds that they were repeatedly destroyed while consistently inflicting fewer losses. In short, you made almost every possible strategic error to lose a match that should have been a relatively straightforward win, and the performance of the Mantis made little difference in determining the outcome of that game.
Could anyone share links to the discord servers that were mentioned in the original post? I'd like to join in.
marmy080 wrote:
In addition to what’s above, imo
1) Cleansing beam is also too strong vs units
2) Hunter Captain should have a bit of love vs infantry
3) Vordius grenadiers should do a little more base damage
4) I know you mentioned AV but cyclops REALLY need help
5) Decimus drop should not be affected by boundless siphon, or should have lower base health
6) Shrouds are useless
7) Fix issue where after our shield has dropped a new shield will come up if you have no shield on your base, hence you can start building a new shield whilst your first is dropping and then recycle your first shield after it drops and a new shield pops up once the 2nd one finishes.
8) Shipmaster’s raid should be 2 points
9) Recon training should give a bit more sight
10) Kodiaks could see a health and speed increase
11) Vordius’ hero is pretty useless
12) Enforcers do a little too much base damage
13) Slightly reduce the honor guard’s speed
14) Increase the shiphon on shipmaster’s ultimate cloaking ability, as it’s pretty usless otherwise
15) Turrets feel a little too strong vs tech 2 armies, is there a way to reduce damage to say anything that has tech 2/3 upgrades eg combat tech marines shouldn’t be destroyed by a few ai turrets and gauss hogs should take siege turrets shots a bit better.
16) Buff cannon fodder upgrade quite a lot
17) Increase velocity of methane wagons Y ability
18) Slightly increase heavy grunt health (in particular vs some leader powers)
19) Buff mantis base health
20) Heros shouldnt go in bunker drop, but it’s health should increase by about 30-40%
21) Make Johnson’s ultimate free building thing affect buying bases/ mini bases also
22) Make wolverine speed match warthog speed (maybe)
23) Reduce damage from reaver jump
24) Increase scout damage to rush, particularly goliaths and enforcers
25) Increase engineer health slightly
I could probably go on all day and I’m sure I’ve forgotten some major stuff but this should be a start.... sorry it’s so long
I disagree with somethings you said like reducing honor guard’s speed as he isn’t op and shipmaster doesn’t red a nerf really, cannon fodder doesn’t need a buff as it’s free , and I think glassing bean is fine but I agree with hunter captain and cyclops getting a buff and mass cloaking getting a shipon buff as everyone uses some unit like a nightingale so cloaked units are barely a threat( not like cloaked units were a threat to begin)
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
So I looked at the game stats you're referring to with Jerome vs Johnson, and while I can't see what happened exactly (replay mode plz), based on your leaders and build orders, here's what I noticed. Specifically:
  • Jerome and Kinsano have 2 of the strongest early games, yet neither of you built any rush units. If Kinsano had double pumped flamers, while you had built Jerome and more Marines, and targeted either of their bases, you could've crippled them. Instead, Kinsano built snipers while both opponents were going straight for vehicle builds.
  • Regardless of what I would consider a mistake, you still reached T2 and had multiple Warthogs before either of them had a Garage/Foundry. If you had targeted Johnson's minibase or garage together, you might've been able to take out a garage and slow his production down, or at least overwhelm his first few Mantises with superior numbers and mobility.
  • Both you and your teammate built 13 and 16 Wolverines respectively, while neither opponent even built an Air Pad or Apex. A complete waste of pop and resources.
  • Your and your teammate, on the other hand, built 4 and 7 Condors respectively, even though Voridus had already built over 2 dozen of them before the first Condor was completed, and Johnson would soon start to produce in large quantities as well. You repeatedly walked right into your direct counter, and though it would somehow end well.
  • By the time you started building Scorpions, your opponents likely had researched most, if not all of the Vehicle Level upgrades. I'd also bet a number of their vehicles had veterancy at that point, so your fresh tanks would have been at a major disadvantage.
  • You and your teammate had to build your hero units 11 and 7 times respectively, compared to Johnson and Voridus' 2 and 4. That means yours almost certainly never got veterancy while theirs likely did, and you had to constantly spend resources to keep rebuilding yours.
  • Kinsano's Flame Hogs are meant to specialize against infantry and buildings, yet neither opponent had much infantry the whole game. Mainly they could be better against those, but a Warthog with a single flamethrower shouldn't be defeating a shielded mech with gatling cannons and guided missiles regardless.
  • This is purely statistical, but you and your teammate both had higher CSRs & win rates than your opponents. You and your teammate were using 2 of your main leaders against people who were using leaders in their "other" category.
  • Comparing the curves of the pop counter over time, it appears you mainly fought Johnson, while Kinsano fought Voridus. Kinsano is a stronger leader against Johnson's building-based powers, and Jerome's extra vision can avoid Voridus' goo attacks.
In conclusion, you and your teammate failed to effectively take advantage of your Leaders' early game strengths, giving them the chance to hit their mid-game strong sports. You also decided to both fight the leaders of you were weaker against, reducing the advantage your units and powers had yet again. Despite facing opponents who were quite likely less skilled than either of you, your army compositions were so completely unsuited to fighting their builds that they were repeatedly destroyed while consistently inflicting fewer losses. In short, you made almost every possible strategic error to lose a match that should have been a relatively straightforward win, and the performance of the Mantis made little difference in determining the outcome of that game.
Thanks for critiquing my play. I'm pretty sure I am well aware that mistakes were made, hence I lost after gaining total map control. That wasn't exactly the point of my post. Thanks for making me feel tiny. I know I am not that good and there are many better players out there. Thanks, really.

As it relates to Manti, no I don't have great micro... but my teammate and I both had max tech level vehicles during the bulk of our vehicle vs vehicle engagements, and I am pretty sure I was ahead of the Johnson tech wise during the early engagements as well. The point wasn't that I was complaining that I lost due to the Mantis problem, the point was I was trying to illustrate that Manti are beefy and I would appreciate if they were examined slightly closer. Again, I know I lost, I know I made lots of mistakes... and lost a game I should have easily won.
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
AYF 001 wrote:
DA Cleric wrote:
I know this is kinda out of left field, but I think that Johnson mantis's need a bit of a nerf in some areas, they are too good against everything in mass to the point of being unstoppable with how cheap they are. I think a small nerf against bases and a smaller one against air would work, They should definitely do well against infantry and ok against vehicles, but right now they seem to good at everything. Again, from my experience so far, they seem to effective in mass.

Like the mantis, I think Serina frost ravens need a little look too. Though not really an issue for being an air unit, I think their frost beams are too effective in mass. Similar to the mantis, if spammed, they are very hard to counter, especially when they also do damage to the units while freezing them. I feel like they should either do less damage to the units or none at all. Again, this is from what I have experienced so far in MM.

These are just my opinions of the game, I am in no way a "top tier" player, far from, but on a general MM level, I am noticing a pattern in how people are play, especially seeing that hornets still are viable as a spam unit against any other unit minus spamming AA.
Manti crush hogs... like its not even funny. At lease in my experience. I agree that Manti need a close look at how good they are, unbuffed by Johnson LPs, they wreck a lot of different types of units and when massed with colossi, I haven't figured out a way of handling them. His army highlights the bad shape Cyclops are in and the fact that Manti can pillage air too compounds the power of his army. Just my opinion, but I struggle when Johnson gets a foothold. Maybe I suck (I feel like I have to relearn the game again because my old tactics suck now) but I struggle against Johnson.
So I looked at the game stats you're referring to with Jerome vs Johnson, and while I can't see what happened exactly (replay mode plz), based on your leaders and build orders, here's what I noticed. Specifically:
  • Jerome and Kinsano have 2 of the strongest early games, yet neither of you built any rush units. If Kinsano had double pumped flamers, while you had built Jerome and more Marines, and targeted either of their bases, you could've crippled them. Instead, Kinsano built snipers while both opponents were going straight for vehicle builds.
  • Regardless of what I would consider a mistake, you still reached T2 and had multiple Warthogs before either of them had a Garage/Foundry. If you had targeted Johnson's minibase or garage together, you might've been able to take out a garage and slow his production down, or at least overwhelm his first few Mantises with superior numbers and mobility.
  • Both you and your teammate built 13 and 16 Wolverines respectively, while neither opponent even built an Air Pad or Apex. A complete waste of pop and resources.
  • Your and your teammate, on the other hand, built 4 and 7 Condors respectively, even though Voridus had already built over 2 dozen of them before the first Condor was completed, and Johnson would soon start to produce in large quantities as well. You repeatedly walked right into your direct counter, and though it would somehow end well.
  • By the time you started building Scorpions, your opponents likely had researched most, if not all of the Vehicle Level upgrades. I'd also bet a number of their vehicles had veterancy at that point, so your fresh tanks would have been at a major disadvantage.
  • You and your teammate had to build your hero units 11 and 7 times respectively, compared to Johnson and Voridus' 2 and 4. That means yours almost certainly never got veterancy while theirs likely did, and you had to constantly spend resources to keep rebuilding yours.
  • Kinsano's Flame Hogs are meant to specialize against infantry and buildings, yet neither opponent had much infantry the whole game. Mainly they could be better against those, but a Warthog with a single flamethrower shouldn't be defeating a shielded mech with gatling cannons and guided missiles regardless.
  • This is purely statistical, but you and your teammate both had higher CSRs & win rates than your opponents. You and your teammate were using 2 of your main leaders against people who were using leaders in their "other" category.
  • Comparing the curves of the pop counter over time, it appears you mainly fought Johnson, while Kinsano fought Voridus. Kinsano is a stronger leader against Johnson's building-based powers, and Jerome's extra vision can avoid Voridus' goo attacks.
In conclusion, you and your teammate failed to effectively take advantage of your Leaders' early game strengths, giving them the chance to hit their mid-game strong sports. You also decided to both fight the leaders of you were weaker against, reducing the advantage your units and powers had yet again. Despite facing opponents who were quite likely less skilled than either of you, your army compositions were so completely unsuited to fighting their builds that they were repeatedly destroyed while consistently inflicting fewer losses. In short, you made almost every possible strategic error to lose a match that should have been a relatively straightforward win, and the performance of the Mantis made little difference in determining the outcome of that game.
Thanks for critiquing my play. I'm pretty sure I am well aware that mistakes were made, hence I lost after gaining total map control. That wasn't exactly the point of my post. Thanks for making me feel tiny. I know I am not that good and there are many better players out there. Thanks, really.

As it relates to Manti, no I don't have great micro... but my teammate and I both had max tech level vehicles during the bulk of our vehicle vs vehicle engagements, and I am pretty sure I was ahead of the Johnson tech wise during the early engagements as well. The point wasn't that I was complaining that I lost due to the Mantis problem, the point was I was trying to illustrate that Manti are beefy and I would appreciate if they were examined slightly closer. Again, I know I lost, I know I made lots of mistakes... and lost a game I should have easily won.
Well your CSR is higher than mine, so you're far from bad. And you fought the #3 champion the match after that, so that's not easy either. But I think Johnson just appears relatively strong right now since AV has been in a poor spot when they nerfed it a lot back in Season 5 or something. But Johnson trades speed for strength, so he should be tougher to fight head-on.
Here is my experiance with the current balance of the game.
Cyclops need a small buff to where they do not stack on top of each other. When tested against a forge an entire force of cyclops lost to 6 grizzlies with no leader abilities and only y abilities from the grizzlies. However when tested against hunters the hunters won hands down. Start small with cyclops either not stacking on each other or make them take less splash damage. Start small maybe 10% less splash.

I main Forge and Jerome here are some small buffs and patch work I think should be implemented on these two hero’s.

Bugs
Forge hog: when leader abilities hit that inflict slow like ice are on a group of grizzlies with forge hog they freak out and refuse to move I believe forge hog is causing this issue because whenever I try moving forge first and get him out the grizzlies seem to figure themselves out and continue on at a snails pace.

Solution: patch the hog and consider making grizzlies immune to status effects they are incredibly slow as is and these effects make them next to useless their mobility is the biggest negative but giving them immunity would be a cool buff that shouldn’t break the meta. Allow them to still loose damage than take damage and still be frozen but don’t slow their already incredibly slow speed down.

bug: Jerome mantis drops. Part of Jerome hero’s charm is skill shotting it to drop in groups of enemy’s, laser barrage makes it very effective if you can land it in a group of enemies, however there is a bug to where it won’t land in a group of enemies to big it will drop to the side of them and the laser barrage doesn’t even hit where you where aiming this is extremely annoying when it is a skill shot leader ability and you do not get the damage you should, since mines where nerfed Jerome is even worse than before and this mantis fix to where it should hit and land where you aimed needs to be fixed so u can get the damage that is meant to be dealt
also Jerome enduring salvo is still pretty easy to dodge and doesn’t deal great damage consider giving it another buff.

atriox remove the mine stun and slow from jump brutes and consider removing these mines or nerding them, they are extremely good another solution would be to make the jump y abilities have a longer cooldown

anders: her supersentinal could use a nerf the abilitie to call a super unit in at will with a powerful y ability that is instant needs to be relooked at, with a bad Anders it doesn’t seem very good but with a good Anders it can very powerful, also Anders sentinels could use a look at

im sure I could think of more but the post would be to long last said artilery could use a look at it is incredibly strong maybe a slight damage nerf or slower shooting times
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