Forums / Games / Halo Wars 2

My thoughts on T1/T2/Hero units

OP Jeff Kills

This post will be taken through a 1's and Banished perspective on the balance of the game. With that in mind, i'll start from the beginning T1.
T1- For the most part I think this is as balanced as you're going to get. Choppers to their job, jack rabbits with good micro and in numbers stop rushes pretty well it seems, inf can be effectively countered on both sides (suis/flamer/sniper) and it feels like who ever spends the most electricity wins the early game which is exactly what it should be IMO. There is one exception to this rule in the T1 game and its the Arbiter.

If the arby has a decent build with their leader in the mix and has decent micro with the right leader points, there's literally no way you can win this battle it seems. I think the hero needs a nerf and COR at T1 needs a minor nerf so the hero isn't unkillable and their army doesn't have a massive all around buff that can steam roll basically anything.
This leads to the transition to T2 and where I believe the meter start to tilt for UNSC.

T2- I'll start this off with a question, if you do a tech up build to get T2 as soon as possible which side would you rather pick? UNSC or Banished? I would choose UNSC 10/10. Warthogs, hornets, nightingales, kodiaks, and combat tech marines. All basically only cost supplies and are much better than marauders, banshees, shrouds, and 2nd grunt upgrade grunts. I don't think that can really be argued at all core UNSC > core Banished.

This is just off the bat however because UNSC has more mobility and can pick you apart until banished build up to a death ball of units. Then they have the advantage sort of late mid game but this comes at a huge price of map control, eco, and much worse T3 timing. That is just the way the match up is currently but i can believe it can be fixed with one simple thing, BUFF MARAUDERS. Marauders are much more expensive, a lot less mobile, take much longer to mass and HAVE NO DPS. You can claim but they're tanky!! And I would say well they take a while to kill but they literally don't kill anything unless you have 7 or 8. In the process of that massing hogs, marines, cyclops, and hornets can keep their numbers down so easily that they're barely worth making.

Now this obviously ins't an impossible match up because hunters and reavers are both very good counter units.and good timing pushes can turn the tides for banished. BUT this is where certain leaders are introduced and certain hero units throw that for a loop. A lot of leaders don't create huge value for their cost and fill decent rolls as sponges, high DPS machines or another leader driven specific rolls. There are a handful of leaders that create so much value against banished that I believe they are Overpowered due to the banished lack of having any decent anti-infantry unit. Cus like I said marauders are not very good and rangers even though they got a buff, I can barely see a difference and it seems like they are under powered as well.

But these leaders are Arby he's just too good due to endless buffs and can literally live forever so a lot of value. Pavium is borderline just due to tankiness, splash, and y ability. Kinsano hero literally can't be caught unless you endlessly ram or chase with an army with 8 marauders which is INSANE to detach 50% of your army for one units as she endlessly drops units to escape is one of the most infuriating things currently in the game. Her DPS is fine and Y is not overpowered but she lives just too easily and especially with the pull you apart BS play style of kinsano, its just way too much value in a hero unit.

And the last 3 hero units are the definition of value, the 3 original Spartans. Cutters spartan is more on the tame side with is raw garbage DPS, so hes more ok than the other two but Jesus Christ ander's and izzy's Spartans are the definition of value vs banished. Now I understand Spartans don't die and only go missing in action but for the low cost of 300 supplies and roughly 700 power you can take out 40 pop of banished army AT A TIME!! I think its universally aware that those leaders are just really really good and I think they need a monster nerf to their shield. I'm on board with keeping the DPS but like they LITERALLY NEVER DIE unless you have 40 pop rangers hitting them for 30 seconds and that's honestly insane. I could see suis as an argument but good luck getting through the chain gun fire and spartan missile to maybe land a good connection to maybe kill one unit.

So that was super long and if you read it all I appreciate it and hopefully you agree but if you disagree please let me know, but for the people who didn't ill put a recap below.
Recap- T1 pretty much fine, whoever spends for electricity wins but arby is just the undisputed king of T1 and that's a problem.
Banished have garbage to tech into at T2 while UNSC has a world of options (warthogs, hornets, combat tech marines, ect...)
The lack of the marauder being any good without massing them really hurts banished and I believe they either need a damage buff or health buff.
Due to the lack of a decent core vehicle banished always seem to be on the back burner to T3 while UNSC always can get there insanely quick because hogs are really good at splitting armies apart, stalling and killing off T1 units.
Arby hero and COR = OP/Broke. Pav hero is very good vs banished borderline insane. Kinsano hero is way too mobile and way too tanky for banished to deal with and literally impossible for banished to deal with the splitting apart.
The 3 original Spartans create waaayyyyyy to much value for their cost and they never die, especially izzy's and ander's Spartans. I believe they need a big shield nerf so they can stop master chiefing banished armies.
I agree with basically everything you're saying.

Good post, Jeffery.
Just encountered an arbiter and saw for myself how hard that thing was to kill. I had 8 level 1 rangers + a crap ton of grunts and infused engineers fighting it and the thing wouldn't die once rage kicked in.
I agree with basically everything you're saying.

Good post, Jeffery.
Same as well but Cutter's hero is not OP at all due to his damage. Would not mind shield debuff but spartan laser needs a bit of AoE small damage increase as a trade off .
Great post. I agree with almost everything you mentioned here OP.
A few things I have to add:

You're right about marauders. They're tanky, yes, but slow and don't do as much dps as warthogs. That said, I think they just fill a different role.
Warthogs are fast which makes them great for gaining map control and picking off minibases and early expos. They usually promote a single unit-army, as you don't want to have any other units slowing them down.
Marauders on the other hand are more suited for direct engagements in the mid game, as they can tank large amounts of damage while you have counter units or locusts in the back that destroy the opponents army/buildings, which on the other hand promotes mixed army compositions.

The problem is that, unless you're Arbiter, this is pretty much the only build you can go for as Banished in T2. Banshees aren't worth building and grunts are way too weak, even with their pack brother upgrade. Banished can't go heavy infantry after early game, while UNSC has a pretty solid core unit throughout all stages of the game with CT marines. They trade well with t2 vehicles and anti infantry units, especially with nightingales, which makes CT marines borderline op imo. Like you said, this leaves Banished in a bad spot, even after hitting T3 because of the economical disadvantage.

I'd rather see a buff for grunts, banshees and elite rangers. That way, we can have more viable mid game options for banished while promoting different playstyles and army compositions for the different factions.
I don't struggle to much against Arbiter's Hero because I'm usually playing Atriox or Decimus and they both can deal with him from stunning and slowing him to not get away which me likey.
I honestly prefer Banished T2 Vehicles over UNSC, I just like how tanky Marauders are honestly and Shrouds are very nice.
Banished has better Heroes, I always get my Hero T2 Upgrade as soon as I hit Tech 2 because I think their all that good Espically HC and Warlord.
I think Spartan Slam's Duration needs a nerf and buff Cutter Jerome damage because its utter balls.
Wait... buff Marauders????
I thought they were OP broken all winter. Where in the world is this sentiment coming from?

*edit* And on the topic of marauders being slow, what about Johnson? His Mantises are the antithesis of slow, but that doesn't make him a bad leader!
If you read the post, my full thoughts are quite clear on why certain things should be done with logical reasoning literally every step of the way.
On marauders, I think if we increased the rate of fire it would more even with hogs and a more viable unit overall. It should not have the same dps as hogs since marauders are tanky especially after thick hide is researched.
I was under the impression that marauders were actually stronger than warthogs. Slower yes and less versatile but they beat warthogs head on I thought. I also prefer the reaver over the wolv's as I like their range and shield. Marauders are in a decent place right now and I think a buff will make them OP. I agree that banshees are pretty bad early on. They are too expensive for what you get, they're only decent once you pump a lot of resources into upgrades.

I 100% agree that the grunt squad is horribly underwhelming. I've tried going infantry just to see what happens and the result is that the grunts get slaughtered within seconds even with full upgrades and ranger/hunter support. They don't seem to do any damage either. I like the concept of the rangers but they need a damage boost against hero's shields. Snipers outperform and from a safe distance to boot. I would like an upgrade for rangers like personal shields that you could research, but it is probably too late for something that large to be added.
In my opinion the only time you can go full infantery with banished is if you play Arby or YapYap with his heavy Grunts, which are surrisingly good with their stun and air survivability.
I would like to see a overall infantery buff , in lategame.
The banished core infantery should do a littlr better vs air and should get a slight overall dmg buff of 2-3 % vs everything else, cause right now they are just underwhelming.
On the other hand ranger should get an other 5% dmg buff vs infantery and air.
On UNSC side I would like to see the cyclops T3 upgrade giving more additional dmg vs Tanks and a higher survivability vs tank shots.