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[Locked] October 2018 Balance Patch [Live 10/30]

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11/3/2018

MO MO DAMONSTER

Marine - Bronze

UnKn0wNxPh0eNix wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Could we please fix the UI radius vs Actual buff radius of Hell Charge? They are drastically different especially at level 3.

And give Isabel Pelican at the very least. Buff Wolverine Acceleration to 20.
Nah my idea for isabel is that they could buff the turret drop to emit a constant small aoe emp to lock down vehicles for the life span of the turret, would fit with her kit and help out in getting to lategame
She needs pelican
Well if every tank sentric leader got a transport ability, it wouldn't be special anymore, plus shes the hacker / distraction leader , so just give her more ways to hack and distract
Maybe making MAC blast actually scary? higher damage? Reduce the cool down? I haven't played her enough to give a lot of critique, MAC does damage but it's negatable, I've been player her with rando leaders that power is okay but it could be her edge if buffed properly. I think she has a nice leader power wheel overall.
Banished counter mac blast pretty easily it’s called teleport. Isebel need more mobility no unsc should have more mobility banished are way better than unsc with a few actually good unsc anders, Jerome And kansano that’s it but banished nearly ever leader is good
not every leader has that ability, and it's pretty ease to cat fish a port. if a port is such and advantage use a fast hit speed and slight damage increase.
Every Banished leader but one has Teleport and that's Pavium..
Kinsano is also very weak right now because she has no good answer to Hogs because Cyclops suck.

That and she's completely fire based which puts her one foot in the grave. Any who there's only ONE leader whos LPs concentrate on porting around the map. Port distance for the other leaders is very minimal and MOST get it tater in the game, unless your arby or shippy.

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11/3/2018

MO MO DAMONSTER

Marine - Bronze

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Spoiler:

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11/3/2018

WizWaz23

Recruit - Bronze

1. I personally think that Voridus's infusion pools are a little too strong on vehicles. Infantry makes sense.
2. Reavers are a little too strong I think as well. Nerf there damage, but possibly reduce pop to 4 instead 5? Idk, they're annoying.
3. Increase pop cost on banshees from 3 to 4 but increase their health a little bit to compensate.
4. Love the buff to tanks and vultures. Vultures still weak tho, think tanks move a little too slow but I can live it, perhaps a 5% speed buff. Either way I'm fine with them.
5. Glassing beam is still a little too powerful I think as well. But people seem to think its balanced so....
---All these are nit picks, but I think will improve the experience a bit more.

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11/3/2018

OneCleverTurtle

Marine - Bronze

WizWaz23 wrote:
1. I personally think that Voridus and his infusion pools are a little too strong on vehicles. Infantry makes sense.
2. Reavers are a little too strong I think as well.
Move elite rangers to tech level 1 instead of 2.
3. Increase pop cost on banshees from 3 to 4 but increase their health a little bit to compensate.
4. Love the buff to tanks and vultures. I think tanks move a little too slow but I can live it. I have been for a while.
5. Glassing beam is still a little too powerful I think as well.
---All these are nit picks, but I think will improve the experience a bit more.

Voridus's infusion does pretty poor damage to anything until you can use cataclysm, and if you use the universal unit upgrades even cataclysm does poor damage, nerfing Voridus's goo further would make him sooo bad.

I don't know how good/bad reavers are rn, haven't played enough to tell.

Skip, not sure what I think.

If tanks moved any faster you could kite armies with wraiths for days. also vultures are still kind of weak imo.

GB is pretty decently balanced now, just learn to split your units and it won't be a problem.

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11/4/2018

Swerve LC

Marine - Silver

WizWaz23 wrote:
1. I personally think that Voridus and his infusion pools are a little too strong on vehicles. Infantry makes sense.
2. Reavers are a little too strong I think as well.
Move elite rangers to tech level 1 instead of 2.
3. Increase pop cost on banshees from 3 to 4 but increase their health a little bit to compensate.
4. Love the buff to tanks and vultures. I think tanks move a little too slow but I can live it. I have been for a while.
5. Glassing beam is still a little too powerful I think as well.
---All these are nit picks, but I think will improve the experience a bit more.

Are you crazy elite rangers shutdown infantry period that has to be the worst decision to ever be made of that switch banished will be broken that like saying move night and gales to tech 1. If elite rangers move to tech 1 and they still have 3 rangers per unit I will quit this game.

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11/4/2018

Swerve LC

Marine - Silver

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Spoiler:

MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Could we please fix the UI radius vs Actual buff radius of Hell Charge? They are drastically different especially at level 3.

And give Isabel Pelican at the very least. Buff Wolverine Acceleration to 20.
Nah my idea for isabel is that they could buff the turret drop to emit a constant small aoe emp to lock down vehicles for the life span of the turret, would fit with her kit and help out in getting to lategame
She needs pelican
Well if every tank sentric leader got a transport ability, it wouldn't be special anymore, plus shes the hacker / distraction leader , so just give her more ways to hack and distract
Maybe making MAC blast actually scary? higher damage? Reduce the cool down? I haven't played her enough to give a lot of critique, MAC does damage but it's negatable, I've been player her with rando leaders that power is okay but it could be her edge if buffed properly. I think she has a nice leader power wheel overall.
Banished counter mac blast pretty easily it’s called teleport. Isebel need more mobility no unsc should have more mobility banished are way better than unsc with a few actually good unsc anders, Jerome And kansano that’s it but banished nearly ever leader is good
not every leader has that ability, and it's pretty ease to cat fish a port. if a port is such and advantage use a fast hit speed and slight damage increase.
Do you not see “banished” they counter mac blast oh two of the 8 banished don’t have tele and those leaders aren’t even the good banished the are mid to low teir banished leaders. That second part I don’t even know what the heck your talking about at all
I was talking about reducing cool down of MAC and increase the DPS, or divide it into 4 rounds with equal power. Tele is not all the great, yeah it can port a portion of your army way but don't let that be the end all be all for the "Advantage".

Who is this guy tele is one of the best leader powers in the game teleportation is what makes ship the strongest leader along with broken glassing beam
ship can move his army across the map and move other units at will mobility and speed is really strong why do you think average lv player complain so much about air spam fast and mobile.. teleport has to be the strongest power in the banished kit. I don’t know what your on???

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11/4/2018

Swerve LC

Marine - Silver

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Spoiler:

MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
UnKn0wNxPh0eNix wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Could we please fix the UI radius vs Actual buff radius of Hell Charge? They are drastically different especially at level 3.

And give Isabel Pelican at the very least. Buff Wolverine Acceleration to 20.
Nah my idea for isabel is that they could buff the turret drop to emit a constant small aoe emp to lock down vehicles for the life span of the turret, would fit with her kit and help out in getting to lategame
She needs pelican
Well if every tank sentric leader got a transport ability, it wouldn't be special anymore, plus shes the hacker / distraction leader , so just give her more ways to hack and distract
Maybe making MAC blast actually scary? higher damage? Reduce the cool down? I haven't played her enough to give a lot of critique, MAC does damage but it's negatable, I've been player her with rando leaders that power is okay but it could be her edge if buffed properly. I think she has a nice leader power wheel overall.
Banished counter mac blast pretty easily it’s called teleport. Isebel need more mobility no unsc should have more mobility banished are way better than unsc with a few actually good unsc anders, Jerome And kansano that’s it but banished nearly ever leader is good
not every leader has that ability, and it's pretty ease to cat fish a port. if a port is such and advantage use a fast hit speed and slight damage increase.
Every Banished leader but one has Teleport and that's Pavium..
Kinsano is also very weak right now because she has no good answer to Hogs because Cyclops suck.
That and she's completely fire based which puts her one foot in the grave. Any who there's only ONE leader whos LPs concentrate on porting around the map. Port distance for the other leaders is very minimal and MOST get it tater in the game, unless your arby or shippy.

I don’t think a hero kinda tanks who kits and run can cripple and economy from burning pads to the ground is weak kansano is arguably the best unsc leader imo tho it’s Anders cause she’s my favorite the only unsc who can compete with kansano Jerome and anders period

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11/4/2018

OneCleverTurtle

Marine - Bronze

Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
UnKn0wNxPh0eNix wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Could we please fix the UI radius vs Actual buff radius of Hell Charge? They are drastically different especially at level 3.

And give Isabel Pelican at the very least. Buff Wolverine Acceleration to 20.
Nah my idea for isabel is that they could buff the turret drop to emit a constant small aoe emp to lock down vehicles for the life span of the turret, would fit with her kit and help out in getting to lategame
She needs pelican
Well if every tank sentric leader got a transport ability, it wouldn't be special anymore, plus shes the hacker / distraction leader , so just give her more ways to hack and distract
Maybe making MAC blast actually scary? higher damage? Reduce the cool down? I haven't played her enough to give a lot of critique, MAC does damage but it's negatable, I've been player her with rando leaders that power is okay but it could be her edge if buffed properly. I think she has a nice leader power wheel overall.
Banished counter mac blast pretty easily it’s called teleport. Isebel need more mobility no unsc should have more mobility banished are way better than unsc with a few actually good unsc anders, Jerome And kansano that’s it but banished nearly ever leader is good
not every leader has that ability, and it's pretty ease to cat fish a port. if a port is such and advantage use a fast hit speed and slight damage increase.
I don’t think a hero kinda tanks who kits and run can cripple and economy from burning pads to the ground is weak kansano is arguably the best unsc leader imo tho it’s Anders cause she’s my favorite the only unsc who can compete with kansano Jerome and anders period

Kinsano is pretty terrible right now; her hero sucks tech 1 and loses to every other hero in the game not named Johnson. Kinsano is all about early harassing, but hitting anything more than a mini base is unlikely. She loses her tech 1 against most other UNSC and several Banished due to having such a weak early hero. Anders is pretty mediocre since her leader point order got less overpowered. Forge hands down flattens Kinsano, Jerome is still broken so that's a given, and Anders is also fully capable of beating down Kinsano early-mid game.

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11/4/2018

MO MO DAMONSTER

Marine - Bronze

Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Could we please fix the UI radius vs Actual buff radius of Hell Charge? They are drastically different especially at level 3.

And give Isabel Pelican at the very least. Buff Wolverine Acceleration to 20.
Nah my idea for isabel is that they could buff the turret drop to emit a constant small aoe emp to lock down vehicles for the life span of the turret, would fit with her kit and help out in getting to lategame
She needs pelican
Well if every tank sentric leader got a transport ability, it wouldn't be special anymore, plus shes the hacker / distraction leader , so just give her more ways to hack and distract
Maybe making MAC blast actually scary? higher damage? Reduce the cool down? I haven't played her enough to give a lot of critique, MAC does damage but it's negatable, I've been player her with rando leaders that power is okay but it could be her edge if buffed properly. I think she has a nice leader power wheel overall.
Banished counter mac blast pretty easily it’s called teleport. Isebel need more mobility no unsc should have more mobility banished are way better than unsc with a few actually good unsc anders, Jerome And kansano that’s it but banished nearly ever leader is good
not every leader has that ability, and it's pretty ease to cat fish a port. if a port is such and advantage use a fast hit speed and slight damage increase.
Do you not see “banished” they counter mac blast oh two of the 8 banished don’t have tele and those leaders aren’t even the good banished the are mid to low teir banished leaders. That second part I don’t even know what the heck your talking about at all
I was talking about reducing cool down of MAC and increase the DPS, or divide it into 4 rounds with equal power. Tele is not all the great, yeah it can port a portion of your army way but don't let that be the end all be all for the "Advantage".
Who is this guy tele is one of the best leader powers in the game teleportation is what makes ship the strongest leader along with broken glassing beam
ship can move his army across the map and move other units at will mobility and speed is really strong why do you think average lv player complain so much about air spam fast and mobile.. teleport has to be the strongest power in the banished kit. I don’t know what your on???

EXACTLY Shippy is the only leader who can use port to the fullest extent. Other leaders have port later on in the lp wheel, most Arby players will not buy port right out of the gate due to the cost for early game. Air and port are two different things, air already has a high mobility using port wouldn't make any sense. Ships main ability is a double edge sword ANYONE can use it, and porting is not the strongest lp in the kit for any other banished besides shippy.

Shippy and Arby are by fare the best covy leaders one just takes more skill to use. I'm not perfect but if you get someone who is good with ship you just have to roll with the punches. It's not impossible to beat ship it's just hard for the first portion of the match.

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11/4/2018

MO MO DAMONSTER

Marine - Bronze

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Spoiler:

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11/6/2018

Swerve LC

Marine - Silver

MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Swerve LC wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
DarkTrooper126 wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
Could we please fix the UI radius vs Actual buff radius of Hell Charge? They are drastically different especially at level 3.

And give Isabel Pelican at the very least. Buff Wolverine Acceleration to 20.
Nah my idea for isabel is that they could buff the turret drop to emit a constant small aoe emp to lock down vehicles for the life span of the turret, would fit with her kit and help out in getting to lategame
She needs pelican
Well if every tank sentric leader got a transport ability, it wouldn't be special anymore, plus shes the hacker / distraction leader , so just give her more ways to hack and distract
Maybe making MAC blast actually scary? higher damage? Reduce the cool down? I haven't played her enough to give a lot of critique, MAC does damage but it's negatable, I've been player her with rando leaders that power is okay but it could be her edge if buffed properly. I think she has a nice leader power wheel overall.
Banished counter mac blast pretty easily it’s called teleport. Isebel need more mobility no unsc should have more mobility banished are way better than unsc with a few actually good unsc anders, Jerome And kansano that’s it but banished nearly ever leader is good
not every leader has that ability, and it's pretty ease to cat fish a port. if a port is such and advantage use a fast hit speed and slight damage increase.
Do you not see “banished” they counter mac blast oh two of the 8 banished don’t have tele and those leaders aren’t even the good banished the are mid to low teir banished leaders. That second part I don’t even know what the heck your talking about at all
I was talking about reducing cool down of MAC and increase the DPS, or divide it into 4 rounds with equal power. Tele is not all the great, yeah it can port a portion of your army way but don't let that be the end all be all for the "Advantage".
Who is this guy tele is one of the best leader powers in the game teleportation is what makes ship the strongest leader along with broken glassing beam
ship can move his army across the map and move other units at will mobility and speed is really strong why do you think average lv player complain so much about air spam fast and mobile.. teleport has to be the strongest power in the banished kit. I don’t know what your on???
EXACTLY Shippy is the only leader who can use port to the fullest extent. Other leaders have port later on in the lp wheel, most Arby players will not buy port right out of the gate due to the cost for early game. Air and port are two different things, air already has a high mobility using port wouldn't make any sense. Ships main ability is a double edge sword ANYONE can use it, and porting is not the strongest lp in the kit for any other banished besides shippy.

Shippy and Arby are by fare the best covy leaders one just takes more skill to use. I'm not perfect but if you get someone who is good with ship you just have to roll with the punches. It's not impossible to beat ship it's just hard for the first portion of the match.

What??? I said why do you think average players complain about air spam because air is fast and mobile is what I said I never said use tele with air spam.. Secondly if ship is the strongest leader in the game is his best ability is teleportation abilites then it’s common knowledge that teleport is a strong leader power ask any good player. Like I said earlier good luck with a mac blast when a good banished player will tele away or in atriox case bulwark it. Buffing mac isn’t the way to go at all buff everything else is stop trying to make one thing op is why glassing beam 3 was cancer is imo should be removed entirely not nerfed. Besides making one ability op just lowers the variety of strats

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11/6/2018

MistaSkidda

Recruit - Onyx

I’m seeing a lot of Isabel discussion, and I wasn’t invited 🤨
If people think she needs a buff, I don’t think I would be inclined to agree. Options in the style of opening play though would be welcome. What I mean is, nobody in their right mind is picking heavy metal off the start with her and coming out of tech one with any kind of advantage. It should just come to a vote on what it should be swapped with in her leader wheel (think when we voted on colony losing battle hardened or mines for teleport).
Option 1: Swap lotus mines and heavy metal
Option 2: Swap acc assembly and heavy metal (and maybe a slight reduction in price for rabbits to make this one a bit more viable)
Option 3: No one cares dude

My personal preference in her leader wheel would be swapping mines with heavy metal and the swapping heavy metal with the turret. Basically move lotus mines to early game, two good offense options leader point three(turret or mac), and two defensive options point 4(metal or best offense). I think I would be suggesting too much with this though.

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11/6/2018

DarkTrooper126

Marine - Bronze

MistaSkidda wrote:
I’m seeing a lot of Isabel discussion, and I wasn’t invited 🤨
If people think she needs a buff, I don’t think I would be inclined to agree. Options in the style of opening play though would be welcome. What I mean is, nobody in their right mind is picking heavy metal off the start with her and coming out of tech one with any kind of advantage. It should just come to a vote on what it should be swapped with in her leader wheel (think when we voted on colony losing battle hardened or mines for teleport).
Option 1: Swap lotus mines and heavy metal
Option 2: Swap acc assembly and heavy metal (and maybe a slight reduction in price for rabbits to make this one a bit more viable)
Option 3: No one cares dude

My personal preference in her leader wheel would be swapping mines with heavy metal and the swapping heavy metal with the turret. Basically move lotus mines to early game, two good offense options leader point three(turret or mac), and two defensive options point 4(metal or best offense). I think I would be suggesting too much with this though.

I totally agree with moving the heavy metal to late game in the wheel. its not really a early game power, giving her mines or drop turret earlier would help a ton. Plus i disagree with people who say she needs pelican to be viable , thats just stupid

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11/6/2018

MistaSkidda

Recruit - Onyx

DarkTrooper126 wrote:
MistaSkidda wrote:
I’m seeing a lot of Isabel discussion, and I wasn’t invited 🤨
If people think she needs a buff, I don’t think I would be inclined to agree. Options in the style of opening play though would be welcome. What I mean is, nobody in their right mind is picking heavy metal off the start with her and coming out of tech one with any kind of advantage. It should just come to a vote on what it should be swapped with in her leader wheel (think when we voted on colony losing battle hardened or mines for teleport).
Option 1: Swap lotus mines and heavy metal
Option 2: Swap acc assembly and heavy metal (and maybe a slight reduction in price for rabbits to make this one a bit more viable)
Option 3: No one cares dude

My personal preference in her leader wheel would be swapping mines with heavy metal and the swapping heavy metal with the turret. Basically move lotus mines to early game, two good offense options leader point three(turret or mac), and two defensive options point 4(metal or best offense). I think I would be suggesting too much with this though.
I totally agree with moving the heavy metal to late game in the wheel. its not really a early game power, giving her mines or drop turret earlier would help a ton. Plus i disagree with people who say she needs pelican to be viable , thats just stupid

Pelican is a funny leaderpower. I get where they are coming from to give it to her, but I disagree for one big reason.
1. The utility for the power is constant for the leaders that do have access to it. In other words, both can utilize it all the way till end game since they both have super slow t3 vehicles. Scorpions are slow, but not that slow to where it takes a decade to reinforce your push from building them at your main.

In the interest of not making all UNSC too similar to each other is all I’m really saying. A good counter argument is all banished have teleport, but it’s just how I feel about it.

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11/6/2018

MO MO DAMONSTER

Marine - Bronze

DarkTrooper126 wrote:
MistaSkidda wrote:
I’m seeing a lot of Isabel discussion, and I wasn’t invited 🤨
If people think she needs a buff, I don’t think I would be inclined to agree. Options in the style of opening play though would be welcome. What I mean is, nobody in their right mind is picking heavy metal off the start with her and coming out of tech one with any kind of advantage. It should just come to a vote on what it should be swapped with in her leader wheel (think when we voted on colony losing battle hardened or mines for teleport).
Option 1: Swap lotus mines and heavy metal
Option 2: Swap acc assembly and heavy metal (and maybe a slight reduction in price for rabbits to make this one a bit more viable)
Option 3: No one cares dude

My personal preference in her leader wheel would be swapping mines with heavy metal and the swapping heavy metal with the turret. Basically move lotus mines to early game, two good offense options leader point three(turret or mac), and two defensive options point 4(metal or best offense). I think I would be suggesting too much with this though.
I totally agree with moving the heavy metal to late game in the wheel. its not really a early game power, giving her mines or drop turret earlier would help a ton. Plus i disagree with people who say she needs pelican to be viable , thats just stupid

I don't think drop for a early power would be a good idea. Kinsanno had this and the rushes that came afterwards were such a headache.

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11/6/2018

Hoppy5560

Recruit - Iron

buff arbiter he's way underpowered compared to the other leaders

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11/7/2018

MO MO DAMONSTER

Marine - Bronze

Hoppy5560 wrote:
buff arbiter he's way underpowered compared to the other leaders

Nah he's good where he is. He's on par with shippy. You just have to dominate the first 5-6 minutes and you only get stronger from there. I'm a bit sad his COR doesn't stack anymore, but it was necessary to make things far.

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11/7/2018

OneCleverTurtle

Marine - Bronze

MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Hoppy5560 wrote:
buff arbiter he's way underpowered compared to the other leaders
Nah he's good where he is. He's on par with shippy. You just have to dominate the first 5-6 minutes and you only get stronger from there. I'm a bit sad his COR doesn't stack anymore, but it was necessary to make things far.

The arbiter is actually pretty weak for how hard he is to use. I'd put him around mid tier right now due to him not having a strong presence in the early game or a particularly scary mid game.

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11/7/2018

Swerve LC

Marine - Silver

OneCleverTurtle wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Hoppy5560 wrote:
buff arbiter he's way underpowered compared to the other leaders
Nah he's good where he is. He's on par with shippy. You just have to dominate the first 5-6 minutes and you only get stronger from there. I'm a bit sad his COR doesn't stack anymore, but it was necessary to make things far.
The arbiter is actually pretty weak for how hard he is to use. I'd put him around mid tier right now due to him not having a strong presence in the early game or a particularly scary mid game.

The arbiter has one of the best if not the best early games what. And you most definitely don’t want to fight to late game with him arbiter is a beast late game he is weakest in mid game his abilities mid game aren’t that good imo

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11/7/2018

OneCleverTurtle

Marine - Bronze

Swerve LC wrote:
OneCleverTurtle wrote:
MO MO DAMONSTER wrote:
Hoppy5560 wrote:
buff arbiter he's way underpowered compared to the other leaders
Nah he's good where he is. He's on par with shippy. You just have to dominate the first 5-6 minutes and you only get stronger from there. I'm a bit sad his COR doesn't stack anymore, but it was necessary to make things far.
The arbiter is actually pretty weak for how hard he is to use. I'd put him around mid tier right now due to him not having a strong presence in the early game or a particularly scary mid game.
The arbiter has one of the best if not the best early games what. And you most definitely don’t want to fight to late game with him arbiter is a beast late game he is weakest in mid game his abilities mid game aren’t that good imo

His early game is predictable and without a good T1 hero it isn't great against hero + core infantry spam assuming they can micro away from your ghosts. (Also ghosts, shield or otherwise lose hardcore to grunt mines and less so Marine nades) His mid game isn't fantastic because his third point options are all mediocre. His super late game is truly terrifying, I'll give you that. It's because of his late game that he is mid tier and not low tier.

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