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[Locked] Patch Pre-Preview v2: The List so far

OP Postums

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Postums wrote:
Postums wrote:
I think cloak should actually get a buff as it isn’t really good or isn’t going to be in the patch
If it completely is negated because of this - we will investigate what needs to be done to make it fair and balanced.
From my experience, Cloaking was already in a bad spot, as pretty every army had detection and the range already felt substantial.

The issue I have with Cloaking is Cloaking Generators. I may be wrong, but it seems that detection units detect form the centre of the cloaked unit, so actually detecting a base becomes irritating because my detection units have to almost ontop of the base. Factor in a shield and a bunch of counter units under said shield, and Banished bases become incredibly difficult to break.

Essentially, Cloaking is already meh in combat and this buff to detection will worsen that. However, this buff should make breaking Banished bases a whisker easier. Double edge sword, if you will.
This may mean that the interaction is fixed with bases, but units with cloak may have to get adjusted a bit more for the future to increase benefits elsewhere on them. Or possibly tweaking how units interact with other cloaked units. There's a ton of options that could be had. Just have to come up with them, build them, and make it happen when we have a better understanding of how the changes impact the game as a whole.

There is a huge difference between what looks good on paper and how people use it in game. As a gamer I know that is definitely the case. It's not as simple as "this will fix everything." We will see how it goes and if it's horrible - then we can change it. If it or something breaks the game in terms of balance - we can look into a mid-season follow up patch to fix something.
Of course. Take it in strides.

Just wanting to throw my experiences/opinions out there!
For the March 10th update I'm going to list my current concerns.

  1. With all the significant buffs to aa, I think that banshees might under-preform with their change to wolverines. The biggest problem is when it comes to large numbers of air units. I feel like lowering the supply cost of aa might be a more efficient method of buffing aa rather than their cost, allowing a person to have more units/support with their aa making tech changes less harsh and more even numbers game without heavily effecting early game interactions.'
  2. I don't think increasing detect range increase is a good way to handle dealing with cloaked bases. It makes cloaking harder to do (it's already difficult to utilize.), and mines super weak. Either the units have to be able to detect only buildings by further away, shields need to be changed or detecting units need to be given someway to survive being in those positions longer. Since it's more of a problem with unsc, I say nightingales being able to smoke units under shields (besides your own. Would be better ways to handle it.
  3. CoR nerf and Scouts getting 10%-15% buff too elite rangers. Is the third nerf to them necessary? They are pretty squishy and already lose to all other anti-infantry.
  4. With stun nerfs is it really necessary to nerf mines still? I'm also worried about paviums mines making it almost impossible to escape if it surrounds you. The only exception is I think it's a good change for arbiter since his mines, when they exploded knocked down their own damage with stasis.
  5. I didn't see a change to paviums stun. It still seems to make you eat all his leader powers and stops your entire army to a crawl unless you remove the one unit out of your group of units. Worse once he gets his last upgrade with it.
  6. Arbiter could probably be a little more squishy with all his cor buffs, just something final to really try to balance him out. He's in the position where it might be better to try and nerf him and buff him if he proves too weak instead of letting him stay too strong.
That's about it. Hope you take some considerations into my views on the changes and help you make an informed decision on which ones will go through.
Banished really seem to be getting the short end of the stick here. I can't really see a reason to still play banished if these changes go into effect. Shields and stealth are getting nerfed, snipers are getting buffed. Jerome s transports are getting buffed which blows my mind since they are already pretty devastating when you put snipers in them. It seems like the only noteworthy change that benefits a banished leader is the few buffs that atriox got and even he got a nerf. On top of that Anders and Serena haven't been touched when it comes to there artillery.
Postums wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
This is too much of a nerf to Conduit. I do not think reverting to the pre-September 7th numbers is a good idea.

September 7th patch
Quote:
Conduit of Rage:
  • Heal per tick 3% -> 4%
  • Tick rate 2/1.5/1 -> 1.5/1/0.7
It really hurts his early game. Now he is extremely weaker on his 2nd and 3rd leader points. I really feel like the tick rate should of been changed to 1.6/1.2/.9 and increase the cooldown on some of his powers by 10-15 seconds. The main issue was level 2/3 heal being over 40%/57% and the massive up time on conduit once he got his 5th leader point. Plus his leader power that reduces CD (ArbiterCDReduction1/2/3) will still be skipped until last. Taking the increased CD approach would make this leader power worth getting sooner.
I disagree that this will be too much simply because of the offensive benefits you get from COR. The Conduit of rage proc that you get from his passive leader power is quite a bit higher in terms of raw damage buff compared to pretty much every single one of them elsewhere in the game. As well, for every leader power you cast - it increases the duration of the passives duration.

On tier 1 - you get a 30% damage buff
On Tier 2 - you get a 45% damage buff
On Tier 3 - you get a 60% damage buff.

Having the high heal rate in terms of ticks makes units that should get countered and killed too hard to kill in most situations because of oppressive damage and fast healing. This is a similar issue that has been seen on Decimus with having only a 3% heal on units such as his banshees or even marauders (which would go toe to toe with air this entire last month). Granted he as well has an active siphon he throws on top of them at times - but regardless, I do believe changing these back down is something that needs to be done.

We see your concerns as he was seen as not an amazing leader before (I still disagree with the notion that he was originally bad), but like I said - if he becomes bottom barrel, a middle ground or slightly higher heal rate on the power can possibly make the most balanced approach on his core passive. We don't think he will, but we have been wrong before and know that people will tell us that we are wrong when we are. But if he becomes really bad we will re-evaluate his conduit of rage and make the necessary middle ground adjustments as needed.
It would be really helpful for the players to publicize all the unit and game stats in one consolidated place. The data behind the game feels hidden for no reason, we get random glimpses into it at the whim of developers.
Postums wrote:
I think cloak should actually get a buff as it isn’t really good or isn’t going to be in the patch
If it completely is negated because of this - we will investigate what needs to be done to make it fair and balanced.
Dropping the cost of cloak would be good since it does not do much but cloak.
Can we please fix these for the PC?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloWars/comments/849jdo/qol_fixes_for_pc/

Thanks!
Basically the post above me is talking about the game not responding to your mouse as if you click on another app/window on your PC. It's a little frustrating to have to open the menu and then close it to play. Just like the reddit post states your out about 30 seconds if you don't catch it right away. It's very random and I've only had it happen in the middle of a battle a handful of times.
Banished really seem to be getting the short end of the stick here. I can't really see a reason to still play banished if these changes go into effect. Shields and stealth are getting nerfed, snipers are getting buffed. Jerome s transports are getting buffed which blows my mind since they are already pretty devastating when you put snipers in them. It seems like the only noteworthy change that benefits a banished leader is the few buffs that atriox got and even he got a nerf. On top of that Anders and Serena haven't been touched when it comes to there artillery.
Completely agree! Banished just feel weak infantry wise besides goliaths. Rangers getting shields like enforcers have would be more beneficial than a power decrease. YapYap’s nerf is something I haven’t seen anyone mention either. I think he as a leader is dependent on most of his leader powers so a 30 second increase may be a little too steep.
Any planned changes on YapYaps ultimates? Mainly "Get back out there!" the 6 infantry respawn isn't that great at all imo
Can Shipmaster get elite enforcers with a ability that allows them to throw a plasma gernade rather than a stasis gernade
Can Shipmaster get elite enforcers with a ability that allows them to throw a plasma gernade rather than a stasis gernade
Uh Yellow, Postums has seen and commented in the other thread for the shipmaster enforcers.
When dropping mines (not sure if this was addressed yet) can you make it so that if not all three mines can be dropped then the power won't/can't be used. Quite often if you drop mines near any base, only two will be allowed to fall and you lose that third one which could help a lot. I'm fairly certain nobody wants only two of their three mines to drop. Thanks!
TBD x Adam wrote:
When dropping mines (not sure if this was addressed yet) can you make it so that if not all three mines can be dropped then the power won't/can't be used. Quite often if you drop mines near any base, only two will be allowed to fall and you lose that third one which could help a lot. I'm fairly certain nobody wants only two of their three mines to drop. Thanks!
Not at this time. I hate to be this guy, but just don't drop them next to bases when the icon color changes. There was a lot of problems with them being dropped near bases before and it was patched out. It's sort of a tribal knowledge at this point not to drop them near buildings. Sorry, but not consuming power/supplies is not going to happen. This will be on you as the player to not drop them there. If an icon is red instead of grey this would mean don't drop. Although if this is a color blindness option I can open a discussion regarding what possibility we could have for icon color changes in the future.

Cheers,
Postums
Ado Ulamee wrote:
Can Shipmaster get elite enforcers with a ability that allows them to throw a plasma gernade rather than a stasis gernade
Uh Yellow, Postums has seen and commented in the other thread for the shipmaster enforcers.
I know but I want to put it on this thread as I really liked the idea and want it to happen so bad
Postums wrote:
TBD x Adam wrote:
When dropping mines (not sure if this was addressed yet) can you make it so that if not all three mines can be dropped then the power won't/can't be used. Quite often if you drop mines near any base, only two will be allowed to fall and you lose that third one which could help a lot. I'm fairly certain nobody wants only two of their three mines to drop. Thanks!
Not at this time. I hate to be this guy, but just don't drop them next to bases when the icon color changes. There was a lot of problems with them being dropped near bases before and it was patched out. It's sort of a tribal knowledge at this point not to drop them near buildings. Sorry, but not consuming power/supplies is not going to happen. This will be on you as the player to not drop them there. If an icon is red instead of grey this would mean don't drop. Although if this is a color blindness option I can open a discussion regarding what possibility we could have for icon color changes in the future.

Cheers,
Postums
Couldn't this be solved in a similar manner to your current mine fix? Aren't you making it so the white mines move around stationary units? like the grey outline moves around, right? couldn't the same be done for mines near a structure?
Postums wrote:
TBD x Adam wrote:
When dropping mines (not sure if this was addressed yet) can you make it so that if not all three mines can be dropped then the power won't/can't be used. Quite often if you drop mines near any base, only two will be allowed to fall and you lose that third one which could help a lot. I'm fairly certain nobody wants only two of their three mines to drop. Thanks!
Not at this time. I hate to be this guy, but just don't drop them next to bases when the icon color changes. There was a lot of problems with them being dropped near bases before and it was patched out. It's sort of a tribal knowledge at this point not to drop them near buildings. Sorry, but not consuming power/supplies is not going to happen. This will be on you as the player to not drop them there. If an icon is red instead of grey this would mean don't drop. Although if this is a color blindness option I can open a discussion regarding what possibility we could have for icon color changes in the future.

Cheers,
Postums
Couldn't this be solved in a similar manner to your current mine fix? Aren't you making it so the white mines move around stationary units? like the grey outline moves around, right? couldn't the same be done for mines near a structure?
No - I can't solve that through data at this time. The fix for mines around bases is entirely in code and code driven. How the mines drop and adjust still after our change is entirely code driven. The fix for mines that we made is a toggle from true to false and entirely data driven. Doing something specific to how they shift is code which we currently are not doing.
Postums wrote:
EiTeNeR wrote:
This is too much of a nerf to Conduit. I do not think reverting to the pre-September 7th numbers is a good idea.

September 7th patch
Quote:
Conduit of Rage:
  • Heal per tick 3% -> 4%
  • Tick rate 2/1.5/1 -> 1.5/1/0.7
It really hurts his early game. Now he is extremely weaker on his 2nd and 3rd leader points. I really feel like the tick rate should of been changed to 1.6/1.2/.9 and increase the cooldown on some of his powers by 10-15 seconds. The main issue was level 2/3 heal being over 40%/57% and the massive up time on conduit once he got his 5th leader point. Plus his leader power that reduces CD (ArbiterCDReduction1/2/3) will still be skipped until last. Taking the increased CD approach would make this leader power worth getting sooner.
I disagree that this will be too much simply because of the offensive benefits you get from COR. The Conduit of rage proc that you get from his passive leader power is quite a bit higher in terms of raw damage buff compared to pretty much every single one of them elsewhere in the game. As well, for every leader power you cast - it increases the duration of the passives duration.

On tier 1 - you get a 30% damage buff
On Tier 2 - you get a 45% damage buff
On Tier 3 - you get a 60% damage buff.

Having the high heal rate in terms of ticks makes units that should get countered and killed too hard to kill in most situations because of oppressive damage and fast healing. This is a similar issue that has been seen on Decimus with having only a 3% heal on units such as his banshees or even marauders (which would go toe to toe with air this entire last month). Granted he as well has an active siphon he throws on top of them at times - but regardless, I do believe changing these back down is something that needs to be done.

We see your concerns as he was seen as not an amazing leader before (I still disagree with the notion that he was originally bad), but like I said - if he becomes bottom barrel, a middle ground or slightly higher heal rate on the power can possibly make the most balanced approach on his core passive. We don't think he will, but we have been wrong before and know that people will tell us that we are wrong when we are. But if he becomes really bad we will re-evaluate his conduit of rage and make the necessary middle ground adjustments as needed.
I am an Arbiter main and have a lot of game experience. As much as it pains me to see Conduit of Rage getting nerfed solely because of my bias and predisposition, I am willing to believe this change is warranted after hundreds of games using Arbiter. The only thing that worries me is the fact that what makes Arbiter special IS Conduit of Rage, so if you take that away in some way, he loses the very thing that makes him unique and viable. Stasis' are great too, but they are more like tools rather than abilities that affect combat potential. Like I said, I am willing to believe this change is okay though, because I have seen how good Rage can be, so time will tell if this nerf is okay, or if it ruins the Arbiter.

Other than that, I haven't posted yet about this patch anywhere in here yet, but I have to say that this patch is looking mighty fine. A lot, and I mean a lot of good things here. My favorite thing to see is Atriox Jump Brutes changing to slow instead of stun. I've said it before that abilities that stun are among the best in the game, and in many cases can be overpowered. Atriox Jump Brutes was one of those cases, so thank you so much for this change. The only thing that might worry me is mines not able to drop directly on to units. Jerome leader relies on this in quite a bit for his skillful gameplay. Not to mention, the increase in detection range will make mines even more worthless when preplaced than they already are. However, on paper, logically, it doesn't make sense for mines to drop directly on top of units, so I understand this change and just like the change to rage, am willing to go along with it for now. So yeah, this patch looks beautiful. If nothing game-breaking happens like previous patches have done (Forge/Colony shenanigans) and if this patch ends up holding up well as far as balancing goes, I almost want to say we won't need another patch in April or beyond. In my eyes, this patch has a possibility to be the end-all finisher.

A final side note, despite how bumpy of a ride this game has been, it has been a blast! Thank you so much 343 and CA for making a game that has given me hours upon hours of fun.
Is this atiox fortify buff really even worth it. I would like to see it happen but 410/164>400/150 saves 10/14 honestly how many bases do you have to build before that matters. Or how about 323/129>300/125 so you save 23/4? dont worry atriox players buy 4 bases then you'll have 92/16 which is about one grunt :) How will it effect turrets or is this all he gets
Is this atiox fortify buff really even worth it. I would like to see it happen but 410/164>400/150 saves 10/14 honestly how many bases do you have to build before that matters. Or how about 323/129>300/125 so you save 23/4? dont worry atriox players buy 4 bases then you'll have 92/16 which is about one grunt :) How will it effect turrets or is this all he gets
Baby steps buddy. Baby steps. The game is taking small baby steps towards being better and better balance wise and every penny you save means another grunt that might win you a fight.
Atriox is not in a bad spot by any means. The difference between countermeasures and Fortifications in current gameplay is huge. Who doesn't want 80-120 pop of brutes that drop mines of death that wipe armies over a few supplies and power instead of buying a base.
Atriox countermeasures is being targeted in other areas as well right now.
If it makes sense to continue this even lower - then we will.
He was nerfed for roughly 4 or 5 straight patches... We are slowly bringing some of his things back up and this will be the 2nd straight patch where he is buffed. All of his other cost reductions are going to be 3% at tier 1 and 6% at tier 2.
Great work Postums keep it up man. Any word on when this update will be coming out?
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