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[Locked] September 2018 Balance Patch - Live 9/12

OP Wrensi

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Like everything except banshees getting cost reduction due to decimus typically going all banshees most of the time. Im familiar with nerfs of siphon but can still be strong having those passive LPs. Another thing is Mantis units seem to be the ground ball of death that destroy just about everything due to kiting or LPs invulnerability. Additionally can line of sight be considered for teleported or pelican drops? At least pelican drop due to distance it has. Lastly can there be more obstacles to getting mini bases other than good connection, economy, or speed of unit. Like a neutral building that must be destroyed first just spit balling. Overall changes seem to be great keep up the good work.
If you think mantis are super strong, then you never played against colossal.
I have but their mobility makes it easy to deal with and there are more opportunities than mantis stomp is underused but very powerful. Mantis speed away and do increased damage to painted targets.
wait. You know how to beat Collosals? do tell me your secrete. Being serious now, they are broken and you cant chase them down as they beat everything by simply, walking running away if you got Overcharge.
Seelenwurm wrote:
2v2 and 3v3 champion here, my opinions:
Wrensi wrote:
Wraith
  • Base DMG increased by 20%
  • Shield increased by 5%
Please be careful with buffing Wraiths, there are already much better than Scorpions and the Banished death ball (Wraiths + Reavers + if needed Banshees/Hunters/Rangers) could become out of control, especially with the nerf to Hornets and Artillery.
Wrensi wrote:
Banshee
  • Cost reduced from 275/0 to 250/0
I am sorry, but this is madness. Banshee spam is already a huge problem in team games, especially on large defensive maps with a lot of obstacles and now the nerf to Jump Pack Brute which is the most important rush unit.
With the nerf to Hornets mirroring air spam for UNSC will be less viable, core infantry gets obliterated in late game by aoe leader powers and are too slow, Wolfverines are worse than Reavers, and UNSC have no shield generators to slow down base sniping.
The single balance request I have: keep the combat strength of air units (to keep buffed tanks in check), but significantly reduce their damage against buildings.
1’s, 2’s, 3’s, strongholds, and Blitz champion here.

Banshees are arguably the worst unit in the game; they die fast, are expensive, and perform poorly against most unit compositions.

For UNSC, full AA turrets can almost hold full pop air. They will be fine
Seelenwurm wrote:
2v2 and 3v3 champion here, my opinions:
Wrensi wrote:
Wraith
  • Base DMG increased by 20%
  • Shield increased by 5%
Please be careful with buffing Wraiths, there are already much better than Scorpions and the Banished death ball (Wraiths + Reavers + if needed Banshees/Hunters/Rangers) could become out of control, especially with the nerf to Hornets and Artillery.
Wrensi wrote:
Banshee
  • Cost reduced from 275/0 to 250/0
I am sorry, but this is madness. Banshee spam is already a huge problem in team games, especially on large defensive maps with a lot of obstacles and now the nerf to Jump Pack Brute which is the most important rush unit.
With the nerf to Hornets mirroring air spam for UNSC will be less viable, core infantry gets obliterated in late game by aoe leader powers and are too slow, Wolfverines are worse than Reavers, and UNSC have no shield generators to slow down base sniping.
The single balance request I have: keep the combat strength of air units (to keep buffed tanks in check), but significantly reduce their damage against buildings.
1’s, 2’s, 3’s, strongholds, and Blitz champion here.

Banshees are arguably the worst unit in the game; they die fast, are expensive, and perform poorly against most unit compositions.

For UNSC, full AA turrets can almost hold full pop air. They will be fine
4 turrets on a Banished base cant even fight off half that. Still, Put a Reavwer or two with a shield and you got a force to be reckoned with.
Seelenwurm wrote:
2v2 and 3v3 champion here, my opinions:
Wrensi wrote:
Wraith
  • Base DMG increased by 20%
  • Shield increased by 5%
Please be careful with buffing Wraiths, there are already much better than Scorpions and the Banished death ball (Wraiths + Reavers + if needed Banshees/Hunters/Rangers) could become out of control, especially with the nerf to Hornets and Artillery.
Wrensi wrote:
Banshee
  • Cost reduced from 275/0 to 250/0
I am sorry, but this is madness. Banshee spam is already a huge problem in team games, especially on large defensive maps with a lot of obstacles and now the nerf to Jump Pack Brute which is the most important rush unit.
With the nerf to Hornets mirroring air spam for UNSC will be less viable, core infantry gets obliterated in late game by aoe leader powers and are too slow, Wolfverines are worse than Reavers, and UNSC have no shield generators to slow down base sniping.
The single balance request I have: keep the combat strength of air units (to keep buffed tanks in check), but significantly reduce their damage against buildings.
1’s, 2’s, 3’s, strongholds, and Blitz champion here.

Banshees are arguably the worst unit in the game; they die fast, are expensive, and perform poorly against most unit compositions.

For UNSC, full AA turrets can almost hold full pop air. They will be fine
4 turrets on a Banished base cant even fight off half that. Still, Put a Reavwer or two with a shield and you got a force to be reckoned with.
Uh, okay? Banished have both shields and cloak, and their turrets can be equipped with AA, A.I, and AV. Would be a little unfair if their turrets performed as welll as UNSC’s.
I'm concerned about tank buff, I think DPS is great in its current state. I'll admit they do need a slight buff. I would rather see a cost reduction in either each tank or drop the cost of canny.

As for wraths, buff the crap out of em
I think wraiths slightly underperform but only because of their cost efficiency; However, they move faster than normal tanks and Banished have the best vehicle killers in the game too so there should be a line cross and 20% is extreme. Unless 343 buffs all t3 against LPs, then i would consider them getting buffed. Because of this, wraiths a generally better not to mention cyclopes litterally are garbage. While wraiths are getting a nasty 20% buff, Cyclopes are getting a por 5%health buff.
5% of an entire unit's health bar might be more impactful than 20% of a single shot's damage to be fair.
Ever notice how fast cyclopes die? Wraiths are not great but at least they fight off their counters decently well and losing to CT marines, Air, and other tanks; but Rangers beat CT very well now, Reavers are great AA and Banished have Hunters. This buff is a lot larger than you think. 20 Buff might not be like 300% forgehog but gives Banished a much stronger late game compared to the UNSC.The way I see it, Banished have the best counter circle in the game.
No offense but did you read what I just said? Health bars are bigger numbers than damage numbers. 5% of 100 ends up being a bigger number than 20% of 20. I don't know what the exact values are but I'm sure cyclops would gain more health than wraiths do damage, so it ends up being a better exchange for the cyclops. Especially when you factor in that wraith shots are slow and can be dodged, and that AV armor will mitigate some of the buffed damage.

I'm just saying that a 5% might not necessarily be poor, and that 20% to the wraith's cannon might not be that extreme of an upgrade. Cyclops still might be poop but this could be a good start.
I don't think you understood what I said actually. WRAITHS CAN FIGHT OFF OTHER UNITS WHILE CYCLOPES CANT VEHICLES. That 5% is small and that 20% buff for wraiths is very large for how effective it currently is. Try to tell me I don't understand again.
Just because 5 looks like it's a small number doesn't mean it is when it's a percentage of a very big number. 20 might look like a larger number until it's a percentage of a comparatively small number. That's is how percentage works. The only data I could find for cyclops' health is from 2017 so take this with a grain of salt but a 5% increase of health is 300 extra health that gets even better with AV armor, heal rate, and global infantry upgrades, I wouldn't call that small.
I'm concerned about tank buff, I think DPS is great in its current state. I'll admit they do need a slight buff. I would rather see a cost reduction in either each tank or drop the cost of canny.

As for wraths, buff the crap out of em
I think wraiths slightly underperform but only because of their cost efficiency; However, they move faster than normal tanks and Banished have the best vehicle killers in the game too so there should be a line cross and 20% is extreme. Unless 343 buffs all t3 against LPs, then i would consider them getting buffed. Because of this, wraiths a generally better not to mention cyclopes litterally are garbage. While wraiths are getting a nasty 20% buff, Cyclopes are getting a por 5%health buff.
5% of an entire unit's health bar might be more impactful than 20% of a single shot's damage to be fair.
Ever notice how fast cyclopes die? Wraiths are not great but at least they fight off their counters decently well and losing to CT marines, Air, and other tanks; but Rangers beat CT very well now, Reavers are great AA and Banished have Hunters. This buff is a lot larger than you think. 20 Buff might not be like 300% forgehog but gives Banished a much stronger late game compared to the UNSC.The way I see it, Banished have the best counter circle in the game.
No offense but did you read what I just said? Health bars are bigger numbers than damage numbers. 5% of 100 ends up being a bigger number than 20% of 20. I don't know what the exact values are but I'm sure cyclops would gain more health than wraiths do damage, so it ends up being a better exchange for the cyclops. Especially when you factor in that wraith shots are slow and can be dodged, and that AV armor will mitigate some of the buffed damage.

I'm just saying that a 5% might not necessarily be poor, and that 20% to the wraith's cannon might not be that extreme of an upgrade. Cyclops still might be poop but this could be a good start.
How big the numbers are doesn't really matter. A Cyclops with 5% health will survive for 5% longer. A Wraith with 20% more DPS will kill things 20% faster. See the issue here? That is most definitely not a good deal for Cyclops and it is no wonder why they continually stay under-powered.

For example let's take your arbitrary numbers as an example. Cyclops health before buff is 100 and Wraith DPS is 20. That's 5 seconds for a Wraith to kill a Cyclops. Now we apply +5% health to the Cyclops and +20% to the Wraith, for a health of 105 and DPS of 24 respectively. Now the time it takes a Wraith to kill a Cyclops is 4.375 seconds. You could make the numbers however arbitrarily large or small you want but the end result is Wraiths killing Cyclops faster than they did before. Even having Cyclops base health at 1000 and Wraith DPS at 2 goes from a 500 second kill time to a 437.5 second kill time, for example.
I'm concerned about tank buff, I think DPS is great in its current state. I'll admit they do need a slight buff. I would rather see a cost reduction in either each tank or drop the cost of canny.

As for wraths, buff the crap out of em
I think wraiths slightly underperform but only because of their cost efficiency; However, they move faster than normal tanks and Banished have the best vehicle killers in the game too so there should be a line cross and 20% is extreme. Unless 343 buffs all t3 against LPs, then i would consider them getting buffed. Because of this, wraiths a generally better not to mention cyclopes litterally are garbage. While wraiths are getting a nasty 20% buff, Cyclopes are getting a por 5%health buff.
5% of an entire unit's health bar might be more impactful than 20% of a single shot's damage to be fair.
Ever notice how fast cyclopes die? Wraiths are not great but at least they fight off their counters decently well and losing to CT marines, Air, and other tanks; but Rangers beat CT very well now, Reavers are great AA and Banished have Hunters. This buff is a lot larger than you think. 20 Buff might not be like 300% forgehog but gives Banished a much stronger late game compared to the UNSC.The way I see it, Banished have the best counter circle in the game.
No offense but did you read what I just said? Health bars are bigger numbers than damage numbers. 5% of 100 ends up being a bigger number than 20% of 20. I don't know what the exact values are but I'm sure cyclops would gain more health than wraiths do damage, so it ends up being a better exchange for the cyclops. Especially when you factor in that wraith shots are slow and can be dodged, and that AV armor will mitigate some of the buffed damage.

I'm just saying that a 5% might not necessarily be poor, and that 20% to the wraith's cannon might not be that extreme of an upgrade. Cyclops still might be poop but this could be a good start.
How big the numbers are doesn't really matter. A Cyclops with 5% health will survive for 5% longer. A Wraith with 20% more DPS will kill things 20% faster. See the issue here? That is most definitely not a good deal for Cyclops and it is no wonder why they continually stay under-powered.

For example let's take your arbitrary numbers as an example. Cyclops health before buff is 100 and Wraith DPS is 20. That's 5 seconds for a Wraith to kill a Cyclops. Now we apply +5% health to the Cyclops and +20% to the Wraith, for a health of 105 and DPS of 24 respectively. Now the time it takes a Wraith to kill a Cyclops is 4.375 seconds. You could make the numbers however arbitrarily large or small you want but the end result is Wraiths killing Cyclops faster than they did before. Even having Cyclops base health at 1000 and Wraith DPS at 2 goes from a 500 second kill time to a 437.5 second kill time, for example.
I'm assuming that they are directly changing and referring to the damage of a single shot of the wraith's cannon, not the DPS derived from however many cannon shots hit in a single second.
I'm concerned about tank buff, I think DPS is great in its current state. I'll admit they do need a slight buff. I would rather see a cost reduction in either each tank or drop the cost of canny.

As for wraths, buff the crap out of em
I think wraiths slightly underperform but only because of their cost efficiency; However, they move faster than normal tanks and Banished have the best vehicle killers in the game too so there should be a line cross and 20% is extreme. Unless 343 buffs all t3 against LPs, then i would consider them getting buffed. Because of this, wraiths a generally better not to mention cyclopes litterally are garbage. While wraiths are getting a nasty 20% buff, Cyclopes are getting a por 5%health buff.
5% of an entire unit's health bar might be more impactful than 20% of a single shot's damage to be fair.
Ever notice how fast cyclopes die? Wraiths are not great but at least they fight off their counters decently well and losing to CT marines, Air, and other tanks; but Rangers beat CT very well now, Reavers are great AA and Banished have Hunters. This buff is a lot larger than you think. 20 Buff might not be like 300% forgehog but gives Banished a much stronger late game compared to the UNSC.The way I see it, Banished have the best counter circle in the game.
No offense but did you read what I just said? Health bars are bigger numbers than damage numbers. 5% of 100 ends up being a bigger number than 20% of 20. I don't know what the exact values are but I'm sure cyclops would gain more health than wraiths do damage, so it ends up being a better exchange for the cyclops. Especially when you factor in that wraith shots are slow and can be dodged, and that AV armor will mitigate some of the buffed damage.

I'm just saying that a 5% might not necessarily be poor, and that 20% to the wraith's cannon might not be that extreme of an upgrade. Cyclops still might be poop but this could be a good start.
How big the numbers are doesn't really matter. A Cyclops with 5% health will survive for 5% longer. A Wraith with 20% more DPS will kill things 20% faster. See the issue here? That is most definitely not a good deal for Cyclops and it is no wonder why they continually stay under-powered.

For example let's take your arbitrary numbers as an example. Cyclops health before buff is 100 and Wraith DPS is 20. That's 5 seconds for a Wraith to kill a Cyclops. Now we apply +5% health to the Cyclops and +20% to the Wraith, for a health of 105 and DPS of 24 respectively. Now the time it takes a Wraith to kill a Cyclops is 4.375 seconds. You could make the numbers however arbitrarily large or small you want but the end result is Wraiths killing Cyclops faster than they did before. Even having Cyclops base health at 1000 and Wraith DPS at 2 goes from a 500 second kill time to a 437.5 second kill time, for example.
I'm assuming that they are directly changing and referring to the damage of a single shot of the wraith's cannon, not the DPS derived from however many cannon shots hit in a single second.
Damage per shot is a component of DPS, this is basic stuff.

Wraith shot does say 40 damage, fires once every 2 seconds. DPS = 20
Buff Wraith per shot damage by 20%, increases per shot damage to 48. Still fires every 2 seconds. DPS = 24, IE +20% to the previous DPS value because DPS scales linearly with damage per shot.
Like everything except banshees getting cost reduction due to decimus typically going all banshees most of the time. Im familiar with nerfs of siphon but can still be strong having those passive LPs. Another thing is Mantis units seem to be the ground ball of death that destroy just about everything due to kiting or LPs invulnerability. Additionally can line of sight be considered for teleported or pelican drops? At least pelican drop due to distance it has. Lastly can there be more obstacles to getting mini bases other than good connection, economy, or speed of unit. Like a neutral building that must be destroyed first just spit balling. Overall changes seem to be great keep up the good work.
If you think mantis are super strong, then you never played against colossal.
I have but their mobility makes it easy to deal with and there are more opportunities than mantis stomp is underused but very powerful. Mantis speed away and do increased damage to painted targets.
wait. You know how to beat Collosals? do tell me your secrete. Being serious now, they are broken and you cant chase them down as they beat everything by simply, walking running away if you got Overcharge.
Dude if they activate overcharge run away they are invulnerably and depending on what leader u pick use teleport, armor or heal to mitigate. Another thing i disliked about this game was certain LPs of invulnerability or armor because u have less options in dealing with it but that is how they decided on making this game. I agree with THEWALL on some of his posts about, like ridding most or all passive abilities on units. I think he had interesting post on having AA air units on both sides among other things. Also what about air units or super units and just kite around urself. Additionally if it is so broken i have yet to see posts about collosals units only mantis a while back the topic was "Are Mantis Anti Everything". If anything stomp should not exist nor painted damage increase on targets and AT should be able to keep up with these units but they dont. But more importantly T3 units should melt mantis butter grizzlys i think struggle due to kiting and range and because T3 take up more space than T2 units so more can engage the same target and this is compounded on certain maps.

Thoughts on some general changes for this game or the next one.
1. Make structures more difficult to obtain, bases and minis, at least mini bases though. It is always a race to those and emphasized. I think it would be nice if a person didnt lose their 1 of 2 bases and subsequently lose the game, it doesn't happen all the time but certainly most of the time. So perhaps up to three bases per person on some of the maps with extra bases in center 1 or 2. Totaling in 1v1s like 7 bases. In 2v2s 13 or 14 total bases on map. 3v3 someone could have max of two mean while 2 team mates may have three. But again not every map just something different.
2. Structure the game to be less competitive. If the direction of marketing is about tournaments and competitive than go ham i suppose but if a third installment is like this i'll just wait for game pass availability to experience the Halo Wars story. This game is love and hate relationship at times. Is this guy rushing or not and largely determined by who they picked and then the sinking feeling of cheesey ness that comes with it.
3. Test the game out however long it takes. I don't have to elaborate much on this because if u look at recent forums/discussion problems from day 1 r still here. It is great that updates happen but i think bridges have been burned for those who tried playing. Most of my friends have stopped playing HW2. When this came out we were excited and hopeful but maybe after a month or so of release they stopped. Citing it was a broken game mainly.
4. I think less emphasis on leaders and more on units and map design. Every map is the same for the most part and has same number of bases and varying amounts of minis. But having more leaders with certain powers and special units seem to make it difficult to balance. Again if more leaders all for but balance it out along with maps.
5. I'm not sure how to way in on two resources. I thought having one was fine certainly it could have influenced the air discussion.
6. If I play 2v2 or 3v3 and im UNSC and everyone else is banished who do u think will be attacked first? Spoiler me most often than not. Usually massed air and even with AA turrets and level 2 armory building upgrade vs fully upgraded banshees with passive siphon and damage reck ur bases. Sure banshees can be like glass but when there r nearly a full force with passive heal and small damage increase they dont die very fast unless u have a large enough AA. I had CT marines level 3 i thought and wolverines level 2 trying to keep up but he would pick off men and destroy my economy i was forge too. We didn't lose but it was something that should not have happened. So some consideration there for UNSC and Banished buildings. Most of time it can be handled but UNSC get the short stick for base defenses. Only reason why my ally wasn't attacked was because of cloak, banshee guy didn't need healer because of passives. This was on Ashes map i think where ur second base is below ur first so getting ground units anywhere takes time i dont have.
7. One of the more interesting aspects to this game is healers and healing powers and powers of invulnerability. In HW1 u sent an army in to break through or lessen their defenses because for the most part there was no healing element so some amount of loss was needed. UNSC could only heal if not taking damage. Covenant could heal in combat but had to build the healing units and weren't as effective depending on build order. Im not sure where I stand with mobile healers or healing during combat. But certainly having invulnerability is absurd or near invulnerability ie armor or passive healing.
If anything Cyclops and hunters need damage mitigation from artillery, all ground vehicles, and y ability of ground vehicles. By far it is sad to see them get destroyed people say banshees get wrecked, try a massed army of Cyclops vs massed scorpions firing canister destroys virtually all of the Cyclops. Hunters I didn't test but seem to do good for most part when fighting.
If anything Cyclops and hunters need damage mitigation from artillery, all ground vehicles, and y ability of ground vehicles. By far it is sad to see them get destroyed people say banshees get wrecked, try a massed army of Cyclops vs massed scorpions firing canister destroys virtually all of the Cyclops. Hunters I didn't test but seem to do good for most part when fighting.
Hunters generally lose with canister without micro but if you micro, Hunters still easily win. would loved to see a much larger buff to cyclopes and a large nerf to CT. Cyclopes don't hope to compete with micro and they lose without canister. SAD. In groups, or macroing, AV has a hard to competing against Kodiaks and Banshees are near useless while cyclopes do nothing ever.
About time you guys have done something about the air problem vs AA. This may make the wolverine useful for once
Wrensi wrote:
Hey everyone,

We are working towards having balance tweaks come in a more often with a smaller group of changes in patches, instead of the current system where it's a larger patch included with a new Season and a mid-season patch. With the transition to this kind of cadence moving forward, not all issues people call out will be addressed immediately, but we will hopefully be able to address bigger issues quicker, instead of you all having long wait or the need for a hotfix.

AtrioxMines dropped by Jump Pack Brutes are over performing. Nerfs to their effectiveness have been made, especially against scout vehicles.
  • Counter Measure Mine daze reduced from 10s to 4s to fall in line with other daze effects
  • Counter Measure Mine damage reduced against scouts by 30%
Thanks,
Wrensi
Hey Wrensi.

Overall it's a solid list. The promise of a quicker return on patched sounds very good indeed. Tanks definitely needed help to make them the end game units they should be and this seems to deliver on that. Fixes for the messed up crate locations and cyclops dropdare very welcome as well. The proposed CM changes are the only ones that I'm worried about. Everything whose is a solid step forward.

I understand that these won't make it for this patch, but these are my current issues not addressed by this patch list:

1. CM still too powerful vs everything. It adds far too much damage, area denial, and overall utility to a unit that is so cheap it can be triple pumped off only a single generator. It needs an overall damage nerf and then further reduction vs scouts.

2. Glassing Beam should be toned down. Glassing Beam 3 is currently banned by all clubs for a reason. It's obscene. I have seen multiple proposals, such as reducing duration to 6 seconds, a longer telegraph to allow for better reaction splits, or just flat DPS nerfs. Most players I have spoken with are okay with straight up removing beam 3 from all leaders (except maybe ship).

3. CT marines still too good vs vehicles. The last patch didn't seem to change up that interaction much. Vehicles don't punish CT marines as well as they should.

4. Cyclops need to do better vs T3 Y ability. This is important given how strong T3 tanks will be. Their abilities shouldn't be capable of erasing their counters as soon as they get into range.

5. Jerome hero too strong. Overall most T3 heroes are ridiculous. Jerome did not require a T1 buff and his performance this season reflects that.

6. Sentinel Network should never be 4th point. Even with the price increase, it is fundamentally still a 5th point ultimate unlocked at the 4th point. It's a massive power spike unparalleled by all other 4th point abilities.

7. Kinsano hero was never addressed. At T2 and above it is far too beefy for how fast it is. I agree that it should be a hit and run hero, capable of running in, using it's Y ability + napalm/inferno/drops, then running away. The problem comes that it is too beefy to take down quickly, meaning there is no punishment for the hit and run hero getting caught. The unit should take a health and shield nerf.

8. Boundless Siphon grunts. These units are surprisingly good. The siphon effect on them should be drastically reduced as they devestatingly beat marauders and hogs pop for pop. It's so bad that they function as a hard counter to hogs. This should definitely get a look at.

Thanks again for the work you and Post put into this game. I really appreciate it and I'm looking forward to seeing how this patch turns out.
Wrensi wrote:
Hey everyone,

We are working towards having balance tweaks come in a more often with a smaller group of changes in patches, instead of the current system where it's a larger patch included with a new Season and a mid-season patch. With the transition to this kind of cadence moving forward, not all issues people call out will be addressed immediately, but we will hopefully be able to address bigger issues quicker, instead of you all having long wait or the need for a hotfix.

Please review the notes below and keep discussion civil around them. Please give input and impressions below.

Patch Notes: [Updated 9/7/2018 1pm PDT]Artillery
Currently this is hard to deal with, especially in late game, nerfs to Artillery are being made in general to make it less punishing to try and break bases against Siege/Artillery.
  • Cost escalation added to UNSC Siege Turrets
  • Damage reduced against vehicles by 10% for all artillery
UNSC
Scorpions are getting an overall damage buff to help them be more viable in general. Hornets are getting a survivability nerf as well as damage against AA reduced so that AA can be more effective against mass air spam. In addition, the Cyclops is under performing and is receiving a small HP buff for now, this will be watched closely and addressed again as needed.

Scorpion
  • Cannon Damage increased by 14%
Hornet
  • Damage versus Anti-Air units reduced by 7%
  • Health Reduced by 5%
Cyclops
  • Health increased by 5%
Banished
Much like the Scorpion, the Wraith is very underwhelming, so slightly larger buffs are going to them in terms of Damage and survivability. This is to make them more viable in general as well. In addition, a slight reduction in supply cost for Banshees is being made to improve viability in mid-game against infantry comps.

Wraith
  • Base DMG increased by 20%
  • Shield increased by 5%
Banshee
  • Cost reduced from 275/0 to 250/0
Map Resource Crate Fixes
Fixing an issue that has been in since launch, found out it can be resolved through Data instead of an actual scenario change
A couple resource crate positions have been adjusted to address an issue causing units to be unable to gather them on Highway, Rift, and Bedrock.
Leader Specific ChangesCutter
  • You can now select and move the dropped Cyclops before the animation completes instead of preventing movement.
  • This fix affects both Cyclops Drop and ODST Assault Group
SerinaAs part of the nerfs to siege in general, the chill amount that Siege Turrets and Kodiaks apply has also been reduced.
  • Chill Amount reduced on Siege Turrets and Kodiaks by 30%
Voridus
  • Fixed and issue which prevented Blisterback’s from benefiting from Infusion Tech.
ShipmasterThe recent buffs to Elite Rangers caused the Spirit Support drops to over perform. Reduction on the Elite Ranger veterancy has been made.
  • Veterancy on Spirit Support Elite Rangers reduced from 3 to 2
AtrioxMines dropped by Jump Pack Brutes are over performing. Nerfs to their effectiveness have been made, especially against scout vehicles.
  • Counter Measure Mine daze reduced from 10s to 4s to fall in line with other daze effects
  • Counter Measure Mine damage reduced against scouts by 30%
Thanks,
Wrensi
Atriox's leader power,
To high cost
"Eradication" has low power.
Easy to dodge.
Recovery time is long.

Unit damage of this leader power is about 30% higher
I would like you to mention about 10% of base damage
Especially if you do not wish for air units to have the effect of getting caught out of escape
tenchosan wrote:
Wrensi wrote:
Hey everyone,

We are working towards having balance tweaks come in a more often with a smaller group of changes in patches, instead of the current system where it's a larger patch included with a new Season and a mid-season patch. With the transition to this kind of cadence moving forward, not all issues people call out will be addressed immediately, but we will hopefully be able to address bigger issues quicker, instead of you all having long wait or the need for a hotfix.

Please review the notes below and keep discussion civil around them. Please give input and impressions below.

Patch Notes: [Updated 9/7/2018 1pm PDT]Artillery
Currently this is hard to deal with, especially in late game, nerfs to Artillery are being made in general to make it less punishing to try and break bases against Siege/Artillery.
  • Cost escalation added to UNSC Siege Turrets
  • Damage reduced against vehicles by 10% for all artillery
UNSC
Scorpions are getting an overall damage buff to help them be more viable in general. Hornets are getting a survivability nerf as well as damage against AA reduced so that AA can be more effective against mass air spam. In addition, the Cyclops is under performing and is receiving a small HP buff for now, this will be watched closely and addressed again as needed.

Scorpion
  • Cannon Damage increased by 14%
Hornet
  • Damage versus Anti-Air units reduced by 7%
  • Health Reduced by 5%
Cyclops
  • Health increased by 5%
Banished
Much like the Scorpion, the Wraith is very underwhelming, so slightly larger buffs are going to them in terms of Damage and survivability. This is to make them more viable in general as well. In addition, a slight reduction in supply cost for Banshees is being made to improve viability in mid-game against infantry comps.

Wraith
  • Base DMG increased by 20%
  • Shield increased by 5%
Banshee
  • Cost reduced from 275/0 to 250/0
Map Resource Crate Fixes
Fixing an issue that has been in since launch, found out it can be resolved through Data instead of an actual scenario change
A couple resource crate positions have been adjusted to address an issue causing units to be unable to gather them on Highway, Rift, and Bedrock.
Leader Specific ChangesCutter
  • You can now select and move the dropped Cyclops before the animation completes instead of preventing movement.
  • This fix affects both Cyclops Drop and ODST Assault Group
SerinaAs part of the nerfs to siege in general, the chill amount that Siege Turrets and Kodiaks apply has also been reduced.
  • Chill Amount reduced on Siege Turrets and Kodiaks by 30%
Voridus
  • Fixed and issue which prevented Blisterback’s from benefiting from Infusion Tech.
ShipmasterThe recent buffs to Elite Rangers caused the Spirit Support drops to over perform. Reduction on the Elite Ranger veterancy has been made.
  • Veterancy on Spirit Support Elite Rangers reduced from 3 to 2
AtrioxMines dropped by Jump Pack Brutes are over performing. Nerfs to their effectiveness have been made, especially against scout vehicles.
  • Counter Measure Mine daze reduced from 10s to 4s to fall in line with other daze effects
  • Counter Measure Mine damage reduced against scouts by 30%
Thanks,
Wrensi
Atriox's leader power,
To high cost
"Eradication" has low power.
Easy to dodge.
Recovery time is long.

Unit damage of this leader power is about 30% higher
I would like you to mention about 10% of base damage
Especially if you do not wish for air units to have the effect of getting caught out of escape
With Jumpbrutes and Glassing Beam, Eradication is bada°°. Even Atrioxs vet drop works well with large infantry ball. Don't underestimate the Eradication.
Imo the first level of glassing beam is too strong, it can ripoff 70% of a infantry T2 army... I don't mind the upgraded version but the first one is way too powerful.
They are not all valid for air.

This game prefers to air too much.
Timing with eradication and Glassing beam already already has air
JumpBrute is incompetent

Eradication that can not be used to destroy the base is too weak
tenchosan wrote:
They are not all valid for air.

This game prefers to air too much.
Timing with eradication and Glassing beam already already has air
JumpBrute is incompetent

Eradication that can not be used to destroy the base is too weak
Eradication that did destroy a base broke the game id rather not go back to that time I’d rather not have to deal with a pavium showing the base then an atriox eradicating the base with a rain of fire for insult to injury.

when that was a thing especially in 1v1 it was basically gg by 5th lp back when atriox was beyond OP
Wrensi wrote:
Hey everyone,

We are working towards having balance tweaks come in a more often with a smaller group of changes in patches, instead of the current system where it's a larger patch included with a new Season and a mid-season patch. With the transition to this kind of cadence moving forward, not all issues people call out will be addressed immediately, but we will hopefully be able to address bigger issues quicker, instead of you all having long wait or the need for a hotfix.

AtrioxMines dropped by Jump Pack Brutes are over performing. Nerfs to their effectiveness have been made, especially against scout vehicles.
  • Counter Measure Mine daze reduced from 10s to 4s to fall in line with other daze effects
  • Counter Measure Mine damage reduced against scouts by 30%
Thanks,
Wrensi
Hey Wrensi.

Overall it's a solid list. The promise of a quicker return on patched sounds very good indeed. Tanks definitely needed help to make them the end game units they should be and this seems to deliver on that. Fixes for the messed up crate locations and cyclops dropdare very welcome as well. The proposed CM changes are the only ones that I'm worried about. Everything whose is a solid step forward.

I understand that these won't make it for this patch, but these are my current issues not addressed by this patch list:

1. CM still too powerful vs everything. It adds far too much damage, area denial, and overall utility to a unit that is so cheap it can be triple pumped off only a single generator. It needs an overall damage nerf and then further reduction vs scouts.

2. Glassing Beam should be toned down. Glassing Beam 3 is currently banned by all clubs for a reason. It's obscene. I have seen multiple proposals, such as reducing duration to 6 seconds, a longer telegraph to allow for better reaction splits, or just flat DPS nerfs. Most players I have spoken with are okay with straight up removing beam 3 from all leaders (except maybe ship).

3. CT marines still too good vs vehicles. The last patch didn't seem to change up that interaction much. Vehicles don't punish CT marines as well as they should.

4. Cyclops need to do better vs T3 Y ability. This is important given how strong T3 tanks will be. Their abilities shouldn't be capable of erasing their counters as soon as they get into range.

5. Jerome hero too strong. Overall most T3 heroes are ridiculous. Jerome did not require a T1 buff and his performance this season reflects that.

6. Sentinel Network should never be 4th point. Even with the price increase, it is fundamentally still a 5th point ultimate unlocked at the 4th point. It's a massive power spike unparalleled by all other 4th point abilities.

7. Kinsano hero was never addressed. At T2 and above it is far too beefy for how fast it is. I agree that it should be a hot and run hero, capable of running in, using it's Y ability + napalm/inferno/drops, then running away. The problem comes that it is too beefy to take down quickly, meaning there is no punishment for the hit and run hero getting caught. The unit should take a health and shield nerf.

8. Boundless Siphon grunts. These units are surprisingly good. The siphon effect on them should be drastically reduced as they devestatingly beat marauders and hogs pop for pop. It's so bad that they function as a hard counter to hogs. This should definitely get a look at.

Thanks again for the work you and Post put into this game. I really appreciate it and I'm looking forward to seeing how this patch turns out.
Very well put. I agree that with those few changes the game will be in a very fun state. I'd like to add that jack rabbits deserve just a little love. Maybe just an accuracy buff.
Shawn96 wrote:
Imo the first level of glassing beam is too strong, it can ripoff 70% of a infantry T2 army... I don't mind the upgraded version but the first one is way too powerful.
You think t3 glass is fine but t1 is broken? Teir 1 and 2 are fine where there at. Teir 3 Glassing Beam is where is broken. It deals extremely large amount of damage and you cant run away from it.
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