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Serina and how to balance (from a serina player)

OP T1g3rs65

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I JG Fox I wrote:
Does any other leader have a stronger early game for map control then Serina right now? I think her passive alone defeats all other efforts.
Anvil Rounds currently guarantee early map control, I don't think Serina's ice holds up to it.
Serina sadly beats forge pretty bad
With or without base freezing?
well i just won against almirante with it. The base freezing is super damn obnoxious even if not done as badly as it could be. Its still broken id say. But without it i dont think she beats forge badly.....
yeah without it she wouldn't beat the nuke launcher with a good Forge playing. But if they took them down a notch they would still be competitive.
kb563 wrote:
Discussion over. The Serina main has spoken.
lol Just putting my opinion out there on things that can be nerfed without ruining her completely.
T1g3rs65 wrote:
1. Significantly reduce freezing to buildings
2. Split Cryo Advances (first point for ice auras and icebringers and second for siege turret) [maybe I'm not sold on this one]3. Reduce unit construction penalties to frozen bases
4. Remove the exploit.
5. (most important) Nerf the Bison's wheels they turn so fast you can't even tell that there turning

They Imo should focus on reducing her rushing and base freezing potential while leaving her anti-rushing and defensive playstyle alone. A purely defensive leader like her should not be good at rushing at all and in general not good at destroying bases. She should be protecting her allies and supporting them when necessary. (she is unique in this nature)

(I play Serena I like her alot by far my favorite but her rushing potential and exploit potential will most likely end up getting her defensive nature nerfed into Isabel)
Freezing slows production of units?

And how are you supposed to come back if she gets on you LOL.
I JG Fox I wrote:
Does any other leader have a stronger early game for map control then Serina right now? I think her passive alone defeats all other efforts.
Anvil Rounds currently guarantee early map control, I don't think Serina's ice holds up to it.
Serina sadly beats forge pretty bad
With or without base freezing?
With
I JG Fox I wrote:
I JG Fox I wrote:
Does any other leader have a stronger early game for map control then Serina right now? I think her passive alone defeats all other efforts.
Anvil Rounds currently guarantee early map control, I don't think Serina's ice holds up to it.
Serina sadly beats forge pretty bad
With or without base freezing?
With
Yeah im 4 losses-2 wins vs the serina base freezers. If they do it correctly you are gonna lose, if they dont you got a chance.
I JG Fox I wrote:
I JG Fox I wrote:
Does any other leader have a stronger early game for map control then Serina right now? I think her passive alone defeats all other efforts.
Anvil Rounds currently guarantee early map control, I don't think Serina's ice holds up to it.
Serina sadly beats forge pretty bad
With or without base freezing?
With
I can agree with that
i think the freese arua on the nodes should be smaller. i dont have a problem pushing the bison rush off but after that when she takes the nodes it becomes so damn difficult trying to take the nodes back with out being frozen.
- reduce freezing speed
- reduce freeze arua on nudes
- fix the ice barrier exploit
- freeze should not stop production
and also does anyone feel like the bison shoots too far?
Omni Sweep wrote:
T1g3rs65 wrote:
1. Significantly reduce freezing to buildings
2. Split Cryo Advances (first point for ice auras and icebringers and second for siege turret) [maybe I'm not sold on this one]3. Reduce unit construction penalties to frozen bases
4. Remove the exploit.
5. (most important) Nerf the Bison's wheels they turn so fast you can't even tell that there turning

They Imo should focus on reducing her rushing and base freezing potential while leaving her anti-rushing and defensive playstyle alone. A purely defensive leader like her should not be good at rushing at all and in general not good at destroying bases. She should be protecting her allies and supporting them when necessary. (she is unique in this nature)

(I play Serena I like her alot by far my favorite but her rushing potential and exploit potential will most likely end up getting her defensive nature nerfed into Isabel)
Freezing slows production of units?

And how are you supposed to come back if she gets on you LOL.
yes and stops completely if its frozen solid.

Basically impossible if you don't have another base or team member with a sizable force
LilBankz41 wrote:
i think the freese arua on the nodes should be smaller. i dont have a problem pushing the bison rush off but after that when she takes the nodes it becomes so damn difficult trying to take the nodes back with out being frozen.
- reduce freezing speed
- reduce freeze arua on nudes
- fix the ice barrier exploit
- freeze should not stop production
and also does anyone feel like the bison shoots too far?
That's kinda the whole point of her as a leader is to deny areas to make it harder on you. Other then that she has nothing but the rush which will be nerfed.

Her role is to protect her team's territory and keep her team protected from rushes. She is horrible alone and shouldn't push alone unless its protected by her aura. Nerfing the auras range would ruin her only ability to play without support.

A good Serina will only engage solo when your in her element other then that she has to rely on her team.
T1g3rs65 wrote:
Omni Sweep wrote:
T1g3rs65 wrote:
1. Significantly reduce freezing to buildings
2. Split Cryo Advances (first point for ice auras and icebringers and second for siege turret) [maybe I'm not sold on this one]3. Reduce unit construction penalties to frozen bases
4. Remove the exploit.
5. (most important) Nerf the Bison's wheels they turn so fast you can't even tell that there turning

They Imo should focus on reducing her rushing and base freezing potential while leaving her anti-rushing and defensive playstyle alone. A purely defensive leader like her should not be good at rushing at all and in general not good at destroying bases. She should be protecting her allies and supporting them when necessary. (she is unique in this nature)

(I play Serena I like her alot by far my favorite but her rushing potential and exploit potential will most likely end up getting her defensive nature nerfed into Isabel)
Freezing slows production of units?

And how are you supposed to come back if she gets on you LOL.
yes and stops completely if its frozen solid.

Basically impossible if you don't have another base or team member with a sizable force
LilBankz41 wrote:
i think the freese arua on the nodes should be smaller. i dont have a problem pushing the bison rush off but after that when she takes the nodes it becomes so damn difficult trying to take the nodes back with out being frozen.
- reduce freezing speed
- reduce freeze arua on nudes
- fix the ice barrier exploit
- freeze should not stop production
and also does anyone feel like the bison shoots too far?
That's kinda the whole point of her as a leader is to deny areas to make it harder on you. Other then that she has nothing but the rush which will be nerfed.

Her role is to protect her team's territory and keep her team protected from rushes. She is horrible alone and shouldn't push alone unless its protected by her aura. Nerfing the auras range would ruin her only ability to play without support.

A good Serina will only engage solo when your in her element other then that she has to rely on her team.
only the arua range on the nodes would be reduced she gets arua on her turrets, from her ice barriers to her bison which has the biggest arua out of all heroes in the game. she should make areas hard to get through but not to the point where its impossible. im fine with her having aruas but she has too many things that get that arua so something needs to be reduced to balance it
Well split/well microed air seems to work pretty well against serina. Frostraven/wolverine is a weak combo. you can phoenix missile the ravens and let Forgehog and your Cyclops deal with the wolverines. If she goes air then laugh as the probably OP combat salvage shows her that forge always wins that battle.
LilBankz41 wrote:
T1g3rs65 wrote:
Omni Sweep wrote:
T1g3rs65 wrote:
1. Significantly reduce freezing to buildings
2. Split Cryo Advances (first point for ice auras and icebringers and second for siege turret) [maybe I'm not sold on this one]3. Reduce unit construction penalties to frozen bases
4. Remove the exploit.
5. (most important) Nerf the Bison's wheels they turn so fast you can't even tell that there turning

They Imo should focus on reducing her rushing and base freezing potential while leaving her anti-rushing and defensive playstyle alone. A purely defensive leader like her should not be good at rushing at all and in general not good at destroying bases. She should be protecting her allies and supporting them when necessary. (she is unique in this nature)

(I play Serena I like her alot by far my favorite but her rushing potential and exploit potential will most likely end up getting her defensive nature nerfed into Isabel)
Freezing slows production of units?

And how are you supposed to come back if she gets on you LOL.
yes and stops completely if its frozen solid.

Basically impossible if you don't have another base or team member with a sizable force
LilBankz41 wrote:
i think the freese arua on the nodes should be smaller. i dont have a problem pushing the bison rush off but after that when she takes the nodes it becomes so damn difficult trying to take the nodes back with out being frozen.
- reduce freezing speed
- reduce freeze arua on nudes
- fix the ice barrier exploit
- freeze should not stop production
and also does anyone feel like the bison shoots too far?
That's kinda the whole point of her as a leader is to deny areas to make it harder on you. Other then that she has nothing but the rush which will be nerfed.

Her role is to protect her team's territory and keep her team protected from rushes. She is horrible alone and shouldn't push alone unless its protected by her aura. Nerfing the auras range would ruin her only ability to play without support.

A good Serina will only engage solo when your in her element other then that she has to rely on her team.
only the arua range on the nodes would be reduced she gets arua on her turrets, from her ice barriers to her bison which has the biggest arua out of all heroes in the game. she should make areas hard to get through but not to the point where its impossible. im fine with her having aruas but she has too many things that get that arua so something needs to be reduced to balance it
It's not impossible to capture the nodes that have ice around them I have done it many many times. It is balanced because of her reliance on teamates or the auras to be effective. She won't win alone. (even with a single marine squad)

The nerfing of the cheese alone will make her much more balanced with not being able to shut someone out by bison rushing or exploting. That's why my suggestions deal with base sieging because she does not need to be good at that to be a good leader. She has a completely different role.

Nerfing her one purpose of area denial and defense of controlled areas will make her useless she can't put out the damage other leaders can without the help of auras.

1. They can Nerf base sieging with her and make her a support leader that can keep map control and her still be useful
2. nerf her ability to keep map control but not her rushing and she would still be useful.
3. Nerf both and UNSC becomes completely useless again

I prefer 1 because it makes her in a unique position and role that has not been filled.
Well split/well microed air seems to work pretty well against serina. Frostraven/wolverine is a weak combo. you can phoenix missile the ravens and let Forgehog and your Cyclops deal with the wolverines. If she goes air then laugh as the probably OP combat salvage shows her that forge always wins that battle.
Yeah she is not this unstoppable mythical force people make her out to be. Yeah being frozen can be annoying but if you move out of it she has nothing.
T1g3rs65 wrote:
Well split/well microed air seems to work pretty well against serina. Frostraven/wolverine is a weak combo. you can phoenix missile the ravens and let Forgehog and your Cyclops deal with the wolverines. If she goes air then laugh as the probably OP combat salvage shows her that forge always wins that battle.
Yeah she is not this unstoppable mythical force people make her out to be. Yeah being frozen can be annoying but if you move out of it she has nothing.
I just dont want my production frozen two minutes into the game haha they patch that and i can give it time to see how she performs. Honestly i feel like shes a bit weak in 1v1 outside of the exploit.
T1g3rs65 wrote:
Well split/well microed air seems to work pretty well against serina. Frostraven/wolverine is a weak combo. you can phoenix missile the ravens and let Forgehog and your Cyclops deal with the wolverines. If she goes air then laugh as the probably OP combat salvage shows her that forge always wins that battle.
Yeah she is not this unstoppable mythical force people make her out to be. Yeah being frozen can be annoying but if you move out of it she has nothing.
I just dont want my production frozen two minutes into the game haha they patch that and i can give it time to see how she performs. Honestly i feel like shes a bit weak in 1v1 outside of the exploit.
Yeah I get that, that's why I suggested what I did I want them to take a gradual change with her and not a crazy Nerf lol. She has a unique roll and like you said not viable alone.
T1g3rs65 wrote:
1. Significantly reduce freezing to buildings
2. Split Cryo Advances (first point for ice auras and icebringers and second for siege turret) [maybe I'm not sold on this one]3. Reduce unit construction penalties to frozen bases
4. Remove the exploit.
5. (most important) Nerf the Bison's wheels they turn so fast you can't even tell that there turning

They Imo should focus on reducing her rushing and base freezing potential while leaving her anti-rushing and defensive playstyle alone. A purely defensive leader like her should not be good at rushing at all and in general not good at destroying bases. She should be protecting her allies and supporting them when necessary. (she is unique in this nature)

(I play Serena I like her alot by far my favorite but her rushing potential and exploit potential will most likely end up getting her defensive nature nerfed into Isabel)
100% agree man, I couldn't have said it better myself
I JG Fox I wrote:
I JG Fox I wrote:
Does any other leader have a stronger early game for map control then Serina right now? I think her passive alone defeats all other efforts.
Anvil Rounds currently guarantee early map control, I don't think Serina's ice holds up to it.
Serina sadly beats forge pretty bad
With or without base freezing?
With
Yeah im 4 losses-2 wins vs the serina base freezers. If they do it correctly you are gonna lose, if they dont you got a chance.
exactly
well considering i lost like 10 in a row with serina i'd say she isnt op, but i mostly blame highway
I JG Fox I wrote:
1 no you should increase distance of ice barriers away from buildings. Leave other powers and units alone.
2 if you do that it won't change any thing 1st point crying troopers and nodes 2nd point turrets? No one would get the 2nd point anyway. Just leave that point alone.
3 fix ice barriers and this won't be a issue
4 as in ice barriers exploit this is the 3rd time mentioning this. If not please specify.
5 no bison is fine for now that can wait till next month when we have more time to test.

Early game matters more then any other part. If a leader cannot be aggressive early then that leader cannot take/maintain map control. No map control you lose. Defensive playstyle is not viable in this game. What you unintentionally asking is to kill her where no one will play her. That would be a no, the only change for now is #1 on this list.
Yes there can be no such thing as a defensive player in this game unless they are going to not have power nodes in every single freaking map and maybe put neutrals on the mini bases to slow the speed at which people can expand. In Starcraft there wasnt really anything on the map to contest other than positioning, so a defensive playstyle could work for a lot of people. This game is totally different it doesnt work to have a defensive leader. Just remove her ice barrier exploit first and maybe slow the speed of icing. Thats the only changes Serina needs right now.
Yeah, I'm thinking the power nodes dynamic wasn't the best choice.
There should maybe be some advantages to gaining map control, such as positioning like you said (higher ground, more sight), but nodes make it so that you have to get scrapping early.
This would be fine if every leader was built to be as aggressive as possible, but they're not. And neither is every player.
We have commented in other threads that the maps need more variability like HW1 maps. Its the same 5 power nodes over and over. The teleportation pads are the only thing that add variety to any of the maps other than their size.
Right.
Essentially every game comes down to being a domination match, because of how important dem nodes are.
I think I've seen someone comment that the maps are limited because of how much work goes into them. I'm not a dev, and don't know what they go through, but maybe it'd be better with fewer nodes and/or more defenses at those nodes so that it was harder/riskier to take them in the beginning.
Or just have certain barriers to block off enemy units like fort deen had and have maps that have 0 power nodes
well considering i lost like 10 in a row with serina i'd say she isnt op, but i mostly blame highway
God i hate that map
She's been out like 3 days and we already have "Serina Mains" bahahaha. lol
T1g3rs65 wrote:
Omni Sweep wrote:
T1g3rs65 wrote:
1. Significantly reduce freezing to buildings
2. Split Cryo Advances (first point for ice auras and icebringers and second for siege turret) [maybe I'm not sold on this one]3. Reduce unit construction penalties to frozen bases
4. Remove the exploit.
5. (most important) Nerf the Bison's wheels they turn so fast you can't even tell that there turning

They Imo should focus on reducing her rushing and base freezing potential while leaving her anti-rushing and defensive playstyle alone. A purely defensive leader like her should not be good at rushing at all and in general not good at destroying bases. She should be protecting her allies and supporting them when necessary. (she is unique in this nature)

(I play Serena I like her alot by far my favorite but her rushing potential and exploit potential will most likely end up getting her defensive nature nerfed into Isabel)
Freezing slows production of units?

And how are you supposed to come back if she gets on you LOL.
yes and stops completely if its frozen solid.

Basically impossible if you don't have another base or team member with a sizable force
LilBankz41 wrote:
i think the freese arua on the nodes should be smaller. i dont have a problem pushing the bison rush off but after that when she takes the nodes it becomes so damn difficult trying to take the nodes back with out being frozen.
- reduce freezing speed
- reduce freeze arua on nudes
- fix the ice barrier exploit
- freeze should not stop production
and also does anyone feel like the bison shoots too far?
That's kinda the whole point of her as a leader is to deny areas to make it harder on you. Other then that she has nothing but the rush which will be nerfed.

Her role is to protect her team's territory and keep her team protected from rushes. She is horrible alone and shouldn't push alone unless its protected by her aura. Nerfing the auras range would ruin her only ability to play without support.

A good Serina will only engage solo when your in her element other then that she has to rely on her team.
That's uh stupid strong and they let that get through ply testing?
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