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Why are people complaining about Shields Stacking?

OP iOxygen xYz

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It is honestly not that big of a deal as people make it out to be. 1 base stacked with 4 generators is not that all powerful as people cry about. You are sacrificing utility slots and turret slots for 4 shields generators that can be brought down in 15 seconds, how is that overpowered? And people complain about how the shields protect units, sure they do, but only if you are standing right beside the base which is nearly impossible to have a whole army under but just a few units under the shield. Why don't people complain about real issues with the game such as chopper spamming with unlimited rams, cutters infantry ball ruling the map all game, or how Isabel can mass produce the best tanks in the game cheaply and quickly, or how decimus's vortex can wipe any army you have in the first 5 minutes no problem. Shield stacking is honestly not that overpowered. Build Kodiaks and blisterbacks and melt the base from range. Complain about real issues please.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
We'll the biggest issue I see is that is ANOTHER excuse to moan. Though I doubt people need an excuse nowadays.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
Use a leader power to take down shields, you don't need to see the base for the powers to effect it. Then use a mix of units with detect to find it. Their army will crumble after that.
UNSC honestly has a well equipped arsenal to deal with shield generators and or a cloaking generator. UNSC has multiple long range detect units(sniper, jack rabbit, wolverine, nightingale), and multiple long range extreme damage dealing units(Kodiak, Condor, Vulture, and now the Colossus. Honestly, you UNSC players don't have a lick of complaining to do. Every UNSC unit pop for pop is better than banished units.
It is a very grave issue for the moment. Not only for UNSC v Banished match ups but also Banished v Banished, the defender has all the advantage in a shield stacked base. Invincible units are better than 3 or 4 turrets.

If you don't believe me go watch the BtC 1v1 finals and you'll see just why stacking is breaking the game.

If they keep stacking then they must surely remove unit protection, and if they keep unit protection they have to remove stacking. At the very least.

Them there's other issues like shield coming up on built and shields coming up in the midst of battle (postcarnage confirmed this doesn't happen, but I don't know, I think I need more testing, because in the tournament I saw the shield coming up a few times).

There's around 4 features provided by the shield as well as numbers and atriox's double fortifications, so there's plenty of room to nerf shields. Next balance patch CANNOT be released without a shield nerf.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
Use a leader power to take down shields, you don't need to see the base for the powers to effect it. Then use a mix of units with detect to find it. Their army will crumble after that.
Currently no other leader power aside from eradication can bring down a 4 shield base. And I believe eradication can remove 2 to 3 shields at the most. So this is not an option in the slightest.
UNSC honestly has a well equipped arsenal to deal with shield generators and or a cloaking generator. UNSC has multiple long range detect units(sniper, jack rabbit, wolverine, nightingale), and multiple long range extreme damage dealing units(Kodiak, Condor, Vulture, and now the Colossus. Honestly, you UNSC players don't have a lick of complaining to do. Every UNSC unit pop for pop is better than banished units.
There's no such thing as a long range detecting unit. Detection radius and attack range and line of sight are all different concepts that can widely range from unit to unit.

A long distance sniper will NEVER reveal a cloaked base, it doesn't work like that.

You can have all the detecting units you want, they're all squishy and have to survive until you bring down a triple stacked base, and that's not going to happen ever.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
Use a leader power to take down shields, you don't need to see the base for the powers to effect it. Then use a mix of units with detect to find it. Their army will crumble after that.
Currently no other leader power aside from eradication can bring down a 4 shield base. And I believe eradication can remove 2 to 3 shields at the most. So this is not an option in the slightest.
UNSC honestly has a well equipped arsenal to deal with shield generators and or a cloaking generator. UNSC has multiple long range detect units(sniper, jack rabbit, wolverine, nightingale), and multiple long range extreme damage dealing units(Kodiak, Condor, Vulture, and now the Colossus. Honestly, you UNSC players don't have a lick of complaining to do. Every UNSC unit pop for pop is better than banished units.
There's no such thing as a long range detecting unit. Detection radius and attack range and line of sight are all different concepts that can widely range from unit to unit.

A long distance sniper will NEVER reveal a cloaked base, it doesn't work like that.

You can have all the detecting units you want, they're all squishy and have to survive until you bring down a triple stacked base, and that's not going to happen ever.
If someone is going to just sit by one base all game, then there is no excuse for you to lose?? You have full map control and limited your opponent to 1 base. You should out produce your opponent in every way shape or form. If they just sit at 1 base all game with said shields and cloak. Set up Kodiaks(artillery around the base) Build a few very cheap jack rabbits and send them in 1 by 1 over and over while your artillery softens up the base, use a few leader powers, coordinate with your team assuming its not 1v1, and send your army in. Its not that big of a problem. They are sacrificing offence for defense. Its that simple. Also if you are dumb enough to just send a army into a cloaked and shielded base, you deserve to lose that battle with your army. Just because you get out played strategically doesn't mean nerf a shield generator.
What game are people playing that they don't see this as an issue? It's a huge problem for UNSC, and drags games on unnecessarily even for Banished vs Banished.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
Use a leader power to take down shields, you don't need to see the base for the powers to effect it. Then use a mix of units with detect to find it. Their army will crumble after that.
Currently no other leader power aside from eradication can bring down a 4 shield base. And I believe eradication can remove 2 to 3 shields at the most. So this is not an option in the slightest.
UNSC honestly has a well equipped arsenal to deal with shield generators and or a cloaking generator. UNSC has multiple long range detect units(sniper, jack rabbit, wolverine, nightingale), and multiple long range extreme damage dealing units(Kodiak, Condor, Vulture, and now the Colossus. Honestly, you UNSC players don't have a lick of complaining to do. Every UNSC unit pop for pop is better than banished units.
There's no such thing as a long range detecting unit. Detection radius and attack range and line of sight are all different concepts that can widely range from unit to unit.

A long distance sniper will NEVER reveal a cloaked base, it doesn't work like that.

You can have all the detecting units you want, they're all squishy and have to survive until you bring down a triple stacked base, and that's not going to happen ever.
If someone is going to just sit by one base all game, then there is no excuse for you to lose?? You have full map control and limited your opponent to 1 base. You should out produce your opponent in every way shape or form. If they just sit at 1 base all game with said shields and cloak. Set up Kodiaks(artillery around the base) Build a few very cheap jack rabbits and send them in 1 by 1 over and over while your artillery softens up the base, use a few leader powers, coordinate with your team assuming its not 1v1, and send your army in. Its not that big of a problem. They are sacrificing offence for defense. Its that simple. Also if you are dumb enough to just send a army into a cloaked and shielded base, you deserve to lose that battle with your army. Just because you get out played strategically doesn't mean nerf a shield generator.
The limited pop cap coupled with unlimited resource means you have nothing over a 1 base full turtle. Sure you out produce him, but within minutes you both are at 120 pop, and he's losing no units at all thanks to the shields while you get your army trashed over and over.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
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If someone is going to just sit by one base all game, then there is no excuse for you to lose?? You have full map control and limited your opponent to 1 base. You should out produce your opponent in every way shape or form. If they just sit at 1 base all game with said shields and cloak. Set up Kodiaks(artillery around the base) Build a few very cheap jack rabbits and send them in 1 by 1 over and over while your artillery softens up the base, use a few leader powers, coordinate with your team assuming its not 1v1, and send your army in. Its not that big of a problem. They are sacrificing offence for defense. Its that simple. Also if you are dumb enough to just send a army into a cloaked and shielded base, you deserve to lose that battle with your army. Just because you get out played strategically doesn't mean nerf a shield generator.
Who said anything about losing? Shields don't have guns and legs to win a game.

It's not about losing, it has never been about losing. It's about dragging. And dragging is a problem in a game that has been about fast paced games since its inception (go back to HW1 vidocs). If you are down to one base the game shouldn't drag an extra 30 - 20 minutes, that's just horrible game design. I want to be clear, that I truly believe this game doesn't have horrid design, it is actually very high quality design, however it's not perfect. And shield stacking is just a tiny detail that it's being abused, not the developer/game designers fault. If these mechanics are kept in the game as intentional then I would believe that's horrible design. That's what I mean by that.Watch the BtC finals if you haven't, because at higher level play is when people are sufficiently aware to spot imbalances and broken mechanics, don't mean to be an -Yoink- of course.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
Use a leader power to take down shields, you don't need to see the base for the powers to effect it. Then use a mix of units with detect to find it. Their army will crumble after that.
Currently no other leader power aside from eradication can bring down a 4 shield base. And I believe eradication can remove 2 to 3 shields at the most. So this is not an option in the slightest.
UNSC honestly has a well equipped arsenal to deal with shield generators and or a cloaking generator. UNSC has multiple long range detect units(sniper, jack rabbit, wolverine, nightingale), and multiple long range extreme damage dealing units(Kodiak, Condor, Vulture, and now the Colossus. Honestly, you UNSC players don't have a lick of complaining to do. Every UNSC unit pop for pop is better than banished units.
There's no such thing as a long range detecting unit. Detection radius and attack range and line of sight are all different concepts that can widely range from unit to unit.

A long distance sniper will NEVER reveal a cloaked base, it doesn't work like that.

You can have all the detecting units you want, they're all squishy and have to survive until you bring down a triple stacked base, and that's not going to happen ever.
If someone is going to just sit by one base all game, then there is no excuse for you to lose?? You have full map control and limited your opponent to 1 base. You should out produce your opponent in every way shape or form. If they just sit at 1 base all game with said shields and cloak. Set up Kodiaks(artillery around the base) Build a few very cheap jack rabbits and send them in 1 by 1 over and over while your artillery softens up the base, use a few leader powers, coordinate with your team assuming its not 1v1, and send your army in. Its not that big of a problem. They are sacrificing offence for defense. Its that simple. Also if you are dumb enough to just send a army into a cloaked and shielded base, you deserve to lose that battle with your army. Just because you get out played strategically doesn't mean nerf a shield generator.
I don't know why you are assuming the Banished player is sitting on one base. Banished have a much stronger opening right now which makes it easier to expand. Usually against a Banished of equal skill they will at least have the same number of bases as you. Once this reaches late game and the Banished has 2-3 bases with shield generators there is no way to push as UNSC. They don't even need to fight your army they can just backdoor your base and kill 3 in the time that it took the UNSC player to kill one. If the Banished player is good and left some units back behind the shield you might not even get one base.

The SECOND issue and maybe even the larger one is that shield stacking makes games last A LOT longer than they should or need to. So even if you do get the early advantage as UNSC it can take a very long time to crack a Banished turtle. You can win from this position but it shouldn't take half an hour.

Edit: So I went back and looked at your game history and I couldn't find a single 1v1 game. I went as far back as 4/10. Shield stacking is much less of a problem in 2's and 3's while it still is a little broken. When we are talking about balance we are talking about 1v1.
The problem is not that it is uncounterable. It is the fact that it drags out games.
The problem is not that it is uncounterable. It is the fact that it drags out games.
Unfortunately it is uncounterable as UNSC when Banished have multiple bases.
The issue isn't that Banished have problems with it, it's that UNSC can't base trade with shields stacking.

Also it's the 3 shields and 1 cloak that's a bigger issue
Use a leader power to take down shields, you don't need to see the base for the powers to effect it. Then use a mix of units with detect to find it. Their army will crumble after that.
What power can drop a 4-gen base? The answer: literally none. Eradication, the strongest damaging power in the game, only does about 60-70% to a heavily shielded base. This tactic doesn't work in the slightest.

It is broken because there is no effective counter from either faction to super shielded base simply because it shelters units. It draws out games, makes bases you SHOULD HAVE LOST live forever, etc. In high level play (I'm talking top 25-50 champion), it's literally an unstoppable strategy. If the defending player knows anything about the game, there is absolutely no effective counter to the issue. Tanks, Choppers, Cutter, etc. all are broken, but at least can be prepared for and played around in some sense. There is absolutely nothing you can do in the current version to prevent Atriox from gaining total map control and building unbreakable bases. If the Banished player is a top player, it CANNOT be stopped as UNSC, and can barely be stopped by other banished. It is without a doubt the single most broken mechanic in the current state of the game.
OP, you haven't played 1v1 since march, back before shields could be stacked, so you haven't actually experienced the nonsense that it is in a solo perspective.

While I do agree with some of your other points on other imbalances, I certainly think shields present the largest area of grief.
IIA T AII wrote:
The problem is not that it is uncounterable. It is the fact that it drags out games.
Unfortunately it is uncounterable as UNSC when Banished have multiple bases.
I was speaking from the point of 2v2s. However, I am quite certain it can be as UNSC? Ive seen teammates use full pop of vultures+ Y ability to bring down 4 shield stacked bases, then use unit drops and leader powers on the units that were inside the shield.
real issues : 3 shield generators, a cloaking field, and 3 scarabs.
wydyadoit wrote:
real issues : 3 shield generators, a cloaking field, and 3 scarabs.
Not exactly.
IIA T AII wrote:
The problem is not that it is uncounterable. It is the fact that it drags out games.
Unfortunately it is uncounterable as UNSC when Banished have multiple bases.
I was speaking from the point of 2v2s. However, I am quite certain it can be as UNSC? Ive seen teammates use full pop of vultures+ Y ability to bring down 4 shield stacked bases, then use unit drops and leader powers on the units that were inside the shield.
In the 3v3 perspective its really bad. Because usually 2 out of the 3 enemies are building anti air no matter what. Even if you arent air heavy. If you cant get a early game elimination to make it 2v3 and if you have no banished on you're team screwed. You just get Hunter/Reaver spammed while the third guy is pumping out locusts or banshees like a rabbit. So no base swap is viable and if you are on a map like highway i believe with teleports its basically get gud, gg get rekt scrub, go back to blitz. And this is all before you get to the base. Once at the base your detection units are mopped up quick. And your vultures get blown to -Yoink-. By time you are done remaking a force large enough to at least properly defend yourself you get attacked and either lose the base or go through it again. Kodiaks would be viable if they werent weaker than the infantry when they get hit and didnt take so long to set up.
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