Forums / Games / Halo Wars 2

Why aren't RTS games like Halo Wars more popular?

OP TheHinge

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I read HW3 is unlikely and I never have seen C&C or any other RTS on Xbox One. Why? I love these games, even though I'm terrible.
Sure beats me, when I get into a RTS game I lose all interest in first person shooters.

"8-bit RTS" comes out soon for xbox one, hopefully it will help fill the RTS void -- but I've not yet played it, heard it's a pretty simple RTS, even compared to HW2.
Zildjians wrote:
Sure beats me, when I get into a RTS game I lose all interest in first person shooters.

"8-bit RTS" comes out soon for xbox one, hopefully it will help fill the RTS void -- but I've not yet played it, heard it's a pretty simple RTS, even compared to HW2.
The "8-Bit RTS" series are extremely simple. TOO simple, in my opinion. No research/unit upgrades and no unit veterancy. Very few unit choices. Matches are decided by who can spam the most units first.

I really want to see more RTS games with research/upgrades and unit veterancy, but it seems all that people are making for strategy games nowadays are simple unit spam fests, tower defense games, or turn-based games... RTS games seem to be in a slump.
Zildjians wrote:
Sure beats me, when I get into a RTS game I lose all interest in first person shooters.

"8-bit RTS" comes out soon for xbox one, hopefully it will help fill the RTS void -- but I've not yet played it, heard it's a pretty simple RTS, even compared to HW2.
The "8-Bit RTS" series are extremely simple. TOO simple, in my opinion. No research/unit upgrades and no unit veterancy. Very few unit choices. Matches are decided by who can spam the most units first.

I really want to see more RTS games with research/upgrades and unit veterancy, but it seems all that people are making for strategy games nowadays are simple unit spam fests, tower defense games, or turn-based games... RTS games seem to be in a slump.
Good for us that good RTS games age well. You can play RTS games that are a decade old and still have fun.
One of the coolest and more realistic(yet very difficult) RTS games is Wargame: Red Dragon, where the maps and units are to scale. Units are based on real life etc.
Another old but good one with active player base is Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance. Some play it on steam, but most play it on FAF.

Halo is a new game for me, and so far it has been fun. Makes you wonder why there arent more of these games indeed.
Another honorable mention goes to "Gray Goo" which is quite unique.
I think that the genre has just become less popular. Most of the same people that like RTS games have moved on to MOBAs.
Zildjians wrote:
Sure beats me, when I get into a RTS game I lose all interest in first person shooters.

"8-bit RTS" comes out soon for xbox one, hopefully it will help fill the RTS void -- but I've not yet played it, heard it's a pretty simple RTS, even compared to HW2.
The "8-Bit RTS" series are extremely simple. TOO simple, in my opinion. No research/unit upgrades and no unit veterancy. Very few unit choices. Matches are decided by who can spam the most units first.
Well thats depressing, was looking forward to it :(
I think that the genre has just become less popular. Most of the same people that like RTS games have moved on to MOBAs.
Makes sense. Many of the MOBAs have a panoramic veiw like a rts and you control a champion or hero much like you would in RTS. Games such as league of legends fill a very close resemblance. You also have high survival skill with building and defense games like Fortnite, Battleplayground, and many but less popular like Paladins which are virtually, in both manners of speaking, the same thing.
RTS games are at their best when you have a vast array of controls and mechanics at your fingertips. On consoles, you have to dumb it down, which kills the appeal of being a true armchair general. I love HW2, I really do, but the simplicity can be sickening when I switch back and forth to Age of Empires 3. Most people who like RTS games feel this way.
LbonB312 wrote:
RTS games are at their best when you have a vast array of controls and mechanics at your fingertips. On consoles, you have to dumb it down, which kills the appeal of being a true armchair general. I love HW2, I really do, but the simplicity can be sickening when I switch back and forth to Age of Empires 3. Most people who like RTS games feel this way.
I personally have no issue with it. As simple as it is, leader powers coming into play really hurts or changed the interation of the the rock, paper, scissors play and is often more about leader power, which what makes it more unique to the Mythology and Age Of Empire series, over infantry>air>vehicles>infantry. Halo Wars is very different and many RTS dont take the route it has taken, no matter how simple it is. Besides LPs being OP, i wish 343 did not simplify the economy as they did and is the only real issue with the game.
I think that the genre has just become less popular. Most of the same people that like RTS games have moved on to MOBAs.
MOBA is what they call games like DOTA now right?

DOTA was fun, but it just doesn't compare to full RTS games. When you get that grid-lock tug of war RTS game that keeps going back and forth -- that is as good as gaming gets for me.
Zildjians wrote:
I think that the genre has just become less popular. Most of the same people that like RTS games have moved on to MOBAs.
MOBA is what they call games like DOTA now right?

DOTA was fun, but it just doesn't compare to full RTS games. When you get that grid-lock tug of war RTS game that keeps going back and forth -- that is as good as gaming gets for me.
I wholeheartedly agree, hence why I play RTS games rather than MOBAs.

Sadly it's the rest of the crowd that gets swept up by LoL and DOTA
There are several reasons why:
1) As others have said, the controller just isn't suited for RTS games. Halo Wars does an admirable job, but one of the main reasons that critically it only got 6-7s instead of 8-9s is it wasn't a die hard RTS game like you can get on PC. Unfair comparison but whatever. Those reviews probably turned a lot of those die hard RTS fans away and pretty much the only people who still play RTS games are diehards.
2) The learning curve. I consider Sins of a Solar Empire to be my main RTS. I love it. But I'm sure I still suck. I've tried joining online games before and been kicked for lack of skill. Even larger RTS games like Supreme Commander just go right over my head I have no clue as to what the heck is going on. I've put 3-5 days in Halo Wars 2 and I still completely suck. That much time and many single player games you could have 100% not still just be struggling with the basics. Combine this with the fact that, as I'm sure you've seen complaints about on this forum, matches are horribly unbalanced due to the only community being diehards. It's kinda hard and very frustrating to try and learn when you get destroyed in 10 minutes and vs. bots will only take you so far.
3) Friends/Time commitment. As I mentioned, I have a lot of time in Sins and Halo Wars and I still suck. I don't want to put the time in to learn them because I have other games I want to play and even if I do commit a lot of time I still won't be able to see any results from it as I'll still get destroyed by the diehards. This and my friends despise Halo and rarely are willing to play RTS games so if I want to play with my friends I have to sacrifice time that likely wouldn't even be invested into RTS games in the first place. I'm sure many others have this problem as well.
4) Battle Royale games, Rainbow Six Siege, Destiny, and as others have said, MOBAs. Personally I think all of those are very overrated but most people don't so there goes a large portion of gamers right there.
I think.
HW 2 is a wonderful game,
HALO initially released a bug that was not suitable at first
(Even now, there are save data bugs and freeze bugs at startup)
For that reason, evaluation was dropped by many reviews

343 Industries has problems with quality control.
tenchosan wrote:
I think.
HW 2 is a wonderful game,
HALO initially released a bug that was not suitable at first
(Even now, there are save data bugs and freeze bugs at startup)
For that reason, evaluation was dropped by many reviews

343 Industries has problems with quality control.
Quality issues may have been a factor, but the fact remains that RTS isn't as popular as the other genres anymore - especially on console.

Ease of access and complexity are natural barriers of entry for RTS. As the population and popularity decline, these barriers become more apparent.

RTS may appear too complex to the uninitiated and can have a somewhat steep learning curve when compared to other game types. And what makes all this even worse is that due to its limited popularity the community and population are often smaller and populated by a more hardcore fanbase. Casual newcomers will get blown away when they try to enter the online competitive scene if they don't quickly grasp the fundamentals.

Losing isn't fun. Losing and not knowing why you're losing is even less fun. Getting annihilated repeatedly blows chunks. Casual gamers are less likely to stay around, so there are fewer casuals for other casuals to play against, exacerbating the issue.
TheHinge wrote:
I read HW3 is unlikely and I never have seen C&C or any other RTS on Xbox One. Why? I love these games, even though I'm terrible.
This is an interesting journal that written by PC RTS developer.
https://forums.ashesofthesingularity.com/488153/page/1/#3722947
You may know why RTS is unpopular in 2018:(
tenchosan wrote:
I think.
HW 2 is a wonderful game,
HALO initially released a bug that was not suitable at first
(Even now, there are save data bugs and freeze bugs at startup)
For that reason, evaluation was dropped by many reviews

343 Industries has problems with quality control.
Quality issues may have been a factor, but the fact remains that RTS isn't as popular as the other genres anymore - especially on console.

Ease of access and complexity are natural barriers of entry for RTS. As the population and popularity decline, these barriers become more apparent.

RTS may appear too complex to the uninitiated and can have a somewhat steep learning curve when compared to other game types. And what makes all this even worse is that due to its limited popularity the community and population are often smaller and populated by a more hardcore fanbase. Casual newcomers will get blown away when they try to enter the online competitive scene if they don't quickly grasp the fundamentals.

Losing isn't fun. Losing and not knowing why you're losing is even less fun. Getting annihilated repeatedly blows chunks. Casual gamers are less likely to stay around, so there are fewer casuals for other casuals to play against, exacerbating the issue.
To beginners click here! Get playing the AI match.
A mechanism to get used to RTS's online play
It is regrettable that there is no HW2.

Even though there are elements
It is the explanation is less.
RTS games target a very niche audience and unlike FPS games or some others, it requires a lot of skill and strategy on your behalf if you want to do well. This means "you" need to put in the time and effort if you want to enjoy the game type because you cant just expect your team to carry you or to be able to just pick a gun and shoot some guys like in COD. The time required to play is also much longer you can probably play a maximum of 2-3 games in an hour (Unless you have a real quick rush, play a lot of solo games and find thksr games quickly). Someone who has half an hour spare can put a few COD rounds in but is unlikely to play more than 1 match and even then they may have to quit if they dont rush hard. Then obviously Halo is a further subset with mainly Halo fans purchasing a game like Halo Wars because not every Rts player is going to want to play a futuristic Sci-Fi or let alone an RTS as fast pace as HW. So those are just some superficial factors as to why there arnt more players, and let me tell you there are many more!
HALO WARS 2 features blitz
It was a very ambitious mode
Lack of fairness in the early days resulted in a loss
I feel that it was one of the future of RTS
Honestly, I feel like RTS games could become more popular for the console if they were made geared toward a simpler overall play style. I really have a hard time painting a picture of what I mean, but I think Halo Wars 1 was on the right track.

As far as Halo Wars 2 goes, I feel it is a much better RTS game as far as compared to the definition of RTS and to the more popular RTS games designed for the PC like Star Craft 2 when compared to Halo Wars 1. However, I feel like Halo wars 1 was much more successful as far as what an RTS for the console needed to be like. I feel like Halo Wars 1 combined RTS concepts to a MOBA style frame and I think for RTS games to succeed at becoming more popular/mainstream the more they need to take on that hybrid style. And I am not saying it has to be exactly a mix between a traditional PC RTS and a MOBA, but it does need to be different than the traditional mind set.

I had high hopes when I heard early on that Gear of War was going to be making a very basic strategy game that it was going to be one heading in that direction similar to HW1 until I found out it was going to be a turned based tactics style game. Anyway, again, I am not sure exactly what these games need to make them trend on the console, but I have high hopes that more creative genres/game types will be seen being developed in the near future as the newer consoles become more and more powerful.
Dricas88 wrote:
Honestly, I feel like RTS games could become more popular for the console if they were made geared toward a simpler overall play style. I really have a hard time painting a picture of what I mean, but I think Halo Wars 1 was on the right track.

As far as Halo Wars 2 goes, I feel it is a much better RTS game as far as compared to the definition of RTS and to the more popular RTS games designed for the PC like Star Craft 2 when compared to Halo Wars 1. However, I feel like Halo wars 1 was much more successful as far as what an RTS for the console needed to be like. I feel like Halo Wars 1 combined RTS concepts to a MOBA style frame and I think for RTS games to succeed at becoming more popular/mainstream the more they need to take on that hybrid style. And I am not saying it has to be exactly a mix between a traditional PC RTS and a MOBA, but it does need to be different than the traditional mind set.

I had high hopes when I heard early on that Gear of War was going to be making a very basic strategy game that it was going to be one heading in that direction similar to HW1 until I found out it was going to be a turned based tactics style game. Anyway, again, I am not sure exactly what these games need to make them trend on the console, but I have high hopes that more creative genres/game types will be seen being developed in the near future as the newer consoles become more and more powerful.
I highly disagree on the point of how a RTS game should be for console. Besides having one of the best campaign for the halo series, HW2 had the balance that is required of any RTS. So no. Halo Wars 1 should never be used as a basis for console RTS. Besides balance, Halo Wars 2 is a very basic game but Halo Wars 1 was far too basic with units, even if they made the counter circle work, and the economy consisted of only supplies. 2 resources is pretty basic and you got games like Age of empires and Age of Mythology with gold, wood, food, and favor in that manner. I like what was done with Halo Wars 2 and I think console RTS should be based off Halo Wars 2. There are a few other games that were quite good that were on console as well, even better balance wise than Halo Wars, but the GUI just never picked up those early titles. There is balance issues being fixed with consistent updates but the does not function correctly with control groups and is a issues that should be fixed sometime soon, though doubtingly going to happen in any short time future.
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