Why are you so convinced someone going air can't get a second base? A second base costs a measly 500 supplies and 200 power. With all the extra power I have from going Air I no doubt will be able to upgrade my bases and all my supply pads/generators. The only air upgrades that really take that long is Air Upgrade 3; speaking of upgrades how are you gonna upgrade your vehicles when you have no power? Lol It's such a joke. And yes while you may have a good number of marines pushing around the map taking nodes and attacking bases, who is to say my teammates won't be contesting you while I mass Air?
If I'm going vehicles then only a third of my units need to be wolves.
No, you're wrong. Going air is so much more expensive. Let's break it down:
Wrong. Banshees don't cost power. More power equals more leader points. More leader points equals more reavers/wolverines go boom boom. I hope I could simplify that enough for you.
You do know that banshees cost way more then wolverines or reavers right. Which makes banshees easy to counter
A)economy. By making the direct counter to air cost so much energy, it allows the opponent to easily texh and build a mass air army. And don't tell me to scout. It doesn't change that fact that 90 percent of every match I encounter air only enemies. It's all people want to do due to how cheap it is to go mass air compared to other units.
What do you mean by "how it interacts?"
Very true. Personally I don't have much issues with other counter units, except for the scenario of anti vehicle vs grizzlies.
Cyclopses and hunters don't do much damage to infantry. However, they do decent damage structures and can at least pull their weight against infantry. I never hated having to build anti-vehicle, but I hate building AA. It's weak, does no damage to non-air, and the air blob I built the damn things for gets away half the time because AA is too slow or too weak to chase.
That wasn't the main purpose of this post. However, his comment needs further context before we can get into a proper debate over counter unit effectiveness. However, I agree with his sentimentality about anti air
That was my second guess but he was saying in parenthesis that the other counters were pretty bad too
Dude, reread it. He is saying how other counter units can do more than just counter. Anti air does only that. Counter air.
No he isn't . He was talking about the other counters being also bad
the other counters are fineHe knows. He is talking about another air specifically
Air needs a buff, not in it's damage, but how it interacts with air units
B) focus firing. Anti air shouldn't really focus fire, that's typically what causes air to win.
120 pop Banshees: 300 x 40 = 12,000 blue
120 pop hornets: 325 x 30 = 9,750 blue
120 pop wolves: 150 x 30 = 4,500 blue. 190 x 30 = 5,700 yellow
120 pop Reavers: 175 x 24 = 4,200 blue. 225 x 24 = 5,400 yellow
^this isn't even taking into account that you don't need 120 pop AA to beat 120 pop air. Banshees are prohibitively expensive. You can build up multiple bases with that price difference. Building energy intensive units leads to more supply for more extractors. It lets you expand more, which by the way is what actually gives you more leader points. Going straight Banshees/hornets sets you back a lot. Going wolves/Reavers, or even better Marines/grunts is cost effective.
Now, if the devs are thinking about lowering AA's energy cost to help push them out early, sure, I'd be okay with that. Maybe even get AA to stop focus firing. Other than that I honestly don't think they need any work. Their damage vs air is already giving air a really hard time. Passives like Deci's should be looked at, but air units themselves should be left alone.
I have already suggested ways to help AA in another post.
1.) Give the wolverines a Y ability that gives them a short speed boost. This will help close the gap between Air mobility and AA mobility. I can't tell you how many times my teammate's bases have been attacked and I couldn't get there in time (When I leave from second or even main base). In HW1 we had the pelican transports to help close the gap, but only a few UNSC leaders have that ability so I think this new Y ability would really help. Extending the Reavers Y Ability jump range would also be a good idea.
2.) Take away the natural "Focus Fire" of AA which results in the "overkill". It is ridiculous that AA will naturally focus fire; and it's not just for the first barrage of shots. If you watch your AA you can notice this.
3.) Give wolverines a bit more health and Reavers more shields. One of the perks of going Air is that you can make healers from the same building as you're making your army. If I'm going AA I have to make a whole other building just to make healers. Because of this, Air is naturally more efficient than AA because they have healers to keep them alive while AA generally doesn't unless it's late game. To compensate this I suggest give both Reavers and Wolvs a bit more health.
So there you go, you can fix AA without even touching their DPS.
I say it from experience. 4 supplies/1 gen makes it really hard to double pump air while also expanding. Forget about getting a 3rd gen fairly early. Just think about it, waiting to get enough power from 2 gens to get tech 3 AND upgrade an expansion AND upgrade supply pads AND get air level 3 AND get armory upgrades is just incredibly inefficient.
Going AA all I gotta do is build 8 wolves and I'm done with power units. Hogs and wolves are much cheaper than Banshees, letting me afford those 4 and 5th generators that will help me with all the research. You would need two really good teammates to hold off 3 people with good armies until you get critical mass air. In an equally skilled matchup the mass air guy would lose. As for your suggestions:
1) Wolverines are already faster than hornets. 20SP vs 18SP (speed attribute). Yes, hornets have terrain advantage to kite wolves, BUT THAT'S THE POINT OF BEING AIR. They are already incredibly fragile, taking away what helps them survive would ruin air entirely. Banshees have 20.5SP so they're slightly faster than wolves but they still can't just zoom away when caught.
2) Yes, they need to fix their focus fire. Literally everyone agrees with this and it's been posted many times. Cool.
3) Nuchy, did you watch the video I posted? Even when using Vortex on the vehicles the Banshees got shredded
. All Banshees died while only 3 hogs and a wolverine went down. Cost to replace: (7800 blue) vs (900 blue/190 yellow). AA doesn't need anything to help them in a fight. More health/shields would utterly break them.