are you kidding? AA is the best counter compared to cyclopes and murauders being garbage. All im saying is AA is so strong that it might be OP if you compared them to other counters just like suicide grunts take only 6-8 Suicide Grunts to wipe out a army while AA is nearly the same against air. Suicide Grunts if anything need nerf while AA is very effective but not too strong either.If you go marines against an air army your team will lose. Marines are slow af, they cost a lot of power to get to be AA, and they are easy targets for leader powers. Not to mention they can be easily countered, whereas with AA like wolvs or reavs they are hardly as effective against Air. Can we at least agree on that? That when it comes to counters, AA is the least effective at killing the unit it's designed to counter.What do you mean no power? If we're both at tech 2 then we've spent an equal amount of power. Then you save for tech 3 or get Air lvl 1&2, both of which cost less than combat tech Marines. And let's not forget I started building a VERY CHEAP Marine army in tech 1, way before you got your air pads up.But how are you gonna get that upgrade when you have no power lol. And yes I'll agree that core infantry is good against Air but they are obviously not as mobile.FungusUCantKill wrote:Upgraded core infantry beats air.Sergeant Braken wrote:Sorry, but the power cost of AA DOES set you back. If someone focuses on mass core air, they have all their power to invest into upgrades and teching up. Whereas the person facing them has to spend power on units that are only useful against air, and nothing else. So the air user has an advantage in tech AND army flexibility.No, you're wrong. Going air is so much more expensive. Let's break it down:Wrong. Banshees don't cost power. More power equals more leader points. More leader points equals more reavers/wolverines go boom boom. I hope I could simplify that enough for you.I JG Fox I wrote:You do know that banshees cost way more then wolverines or reavers right. Which makes banshees easy to counterA)economy. By making the direct counter to air cost so much energy, it allows the opponent to easily texh and build a mass air army. And don't tell me to scout. It doesn't change that fact that 90 percent of every match I encounter air only enemies. It's all people want to do due to how cheap it is to go mass air compared to other units.FungusUCantKill wrote:What do you mean by "how it interacts?"Very true. Personally I don't have much issues with other counter units, except for the scenario of anti vehicle vs grizzlies.Sarano696 wrote:Cyclopses and hunters don't do much damage to infantry. However, they do decent damage structures and can at least pull their weight against infantry. I never hated having to build anti-vehicle, but I hate building AA. It's weak, does no damage to non-air, and the air blob I built the damn things for gets away half the time because AA is too slow or too weak to chase.That wasn't the main purpose of this post. However, his comment needs further context before we can get into a proper debate over counter unit effectiveness. However, I agree with his sentimentality about anti airThat was my second guess but he was saying in parenthesis that the other counters were pretty bad tooDude, reread it. He is saying how other counter units can do more than just counter. Anti air does only that. Counter air.No he isn't . He was talking about the other counters being also badHe knows. He is talking about another air specifically
Air needs a buff, not in it's damage, but how it interacts with air units
B) focus firing. Anti air shouldn't really focus fire, that's typically what causes air to win.
120 pop Banshees: 300 x 40 = 12,000 blue
120 pop hornets: 325 x 30 = 9,750 blue
120 pop wolves: 150 x 30 = 4,500 blue. 190 x 30 = 5,700 yellow
120 pop Reavers: 175 x 24 = 4,200 blue. 225 x 24 = 5,400 yellow
^this isn't even taking into account that you don't need 120 pop AA to beat 120 pop air. Banshees are prohibitively expensive. You can build up multiple bases with that price difference. Building energy intensive units leads to more supply for more extractors. It lets you expand more, which by the way is what actually gives you more leader points. Going straight Banshees/hornets sets you back a lot. Going wolves/Reavers, or even better Marines/grunts is cost effective.
Now, if the devs are thinking about lowering AA's energy cost to help push them out early, sure, I'd be okay with that. Maybe even get AA to stop focus firing. Other than that I honestly don't think they need any work. Their damage vs air is already giving air a really hard time. Passives like Deci's should be looked at, but air units themselves should be left alone.
Why none of you understand that is beyond me...
Core infantry is much cheaper and easier to mass and upgrade than air.
Can we at least agree on that?
Why do AA units suck so much? (Air not OP)