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[Locked] Brief HCS Settings Update

OP ZaedynFel

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It is so much more than just the BR!

They changed a lot of other weapons, too (tried the Carbine?), and of course brought automatics back. We lost the magnum - a weapon that competitive players and casuals I play with like, but gained Overgrowth, Mercy and a Rocket Launcher on Regret. Yes, regret - that is the feeling that the HCS/sandbox team at 343 should feel right now after the amount of feedback negative they receive through reddit/twitter/teambeyond/waypoint. But unfortunately it seems they already made up their mind a long time ago...

Game design not based on any user research, but by looking purely at possibly misleading analytics that to me seem clearly missing many facts (based on the posts that I read here). Some of my friends already stopped playing since Oddball came out and wait till the testing is over. I hope at least these changes won't further screw up the game's population and lead to the expected results that they are hoping for.
What specifically is a "Pro" - qualification to be included in the HCS settings survey?
Just HCS LAN tournament competitors? Anyone who is/was Champion rank? Or all Elite players ranked within Top 1% global stats (HaloTracker)?
Pros are players from the top 14 teams in NA and Europe, i.e. those who are at the absolute top end of the game and can give the best feedback on what is and isn't competitive and viable for tournament play. Not all pros are champions and most champions aren't pros, that couldn't be a qualifier.
Shady IIV wrote:
It is so much more than just the BR!

They changed a lot of other weapons, too (tried the Carbine?), and of course brought automatics back. We lost the magnum - a weapon that competitive players and casuals I play with like, but gained Overgrowth, Mercy and a Rocket Launcher on Regret. Yes, regret - that is the feeling that the HCS/sandbox team at 343 should feel right now after the amount of feedback negative they receive through reddit/twitter/teambeyond/waypoint. But unfortunately it seems they already made up their mind a long time ago...

Game design not based on any user research, but by looking purely at possibly misleading analytics that to me seem clearly missing many facts (based on the posts that I read here). Some of my friends already stopped playing since Oddball came out and wait till the testing is over. I hope at least these changes won't further screw up the game's population and lead to the expected results that they are hoping for.
We've largely stopped playing too, partly a 'boycott' and partly because it simply isn't fun any more.
As a long time Halo fan and player I am very disappointed and frustrated with the current state of the weapons. After the tuning update I find it completely inconsistent and unreliable to actually shoot anyone. The only time I can feel confident about killing someone is with a melees. This to me is completely unacceptable. Halo has always been the model for what a competitive shooter should be, that is a game where where the shooting is competitive! Being able to aim and land shots accurately is the most crucial and fundamental part of the game. With an inconsistent bullet spread and recoil how could that possibly ever be the case. The community was never pleased with the inconsistency of the BR in Halo 3 and the bloom in Halo Reach was universally recognized to be a problem, so much so that it was removed some time into the game. So why would we do the exact opposite in Halo 5?
No other game takes the amount of accuracy to successful as Halo. Shooting in the body is sufficient to land a kill in most any other shooter. But to kill with a precision weapon in Halo you really need to land the headshot. How is his possible when the precision weapons are anything but precise? With the current state of the game I find it too broken to play and I am not alone in feeling this way as many of my friends have stopped playin as well.
The br its better in this update :p
I truly hope for our sake and your games sake that you are indeed listening to us. Guess we'll see.
I hope the pros get the settings they need. I hope they so so that way we can have an awesome 2018 worlds and more halo to follow.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for all of your feedback and responses. We have been reading each bit of it.
We're still in the process of testing settings and making tuning updates to weapons, so things are not locked in place.
We got feedback from pros on last season's settings via survey, and are currently working to address a number of items on each of the maps. We'll be starting with Slayer, and these will be added to the playlist next week.
We also have a new survey out to pros based on what's in the playlist right now - Oddball and BR/Gunfighter. On Monday, we'll collect all of results and go over it with the team.
We are definitely listening, and your feedback does matter. With Thanksgiving tomorrow, there's more work to do and conversations to be had about this all, so we'll be able to provide another update on Monday.
Thanks, Happy Thanksgiving!
Should BR/Gunfighter Magnums stay? Or should we go back to magnum starts?
Results
0% BR/Gunfighter starts
1,000,000,000% Magnum starts
When HCS went to Magnum starts, I can dare say the registration of shots was by far the best I have ever seen in any Halo too date... don't mess that up. I have already explained about the BR, but the DMR and Carbine etc. Why...
Shady IIV wrote:
It is so much more than just the BR!

They changed a lot of other weapons, too (tried the Carbine?), and of course brought automatics back. We lost the magnum - a weapon that competitive players and casuals I play with like, but gained Overgrowth, Mercy and a Rocket Launcher on Regret. Yes, regret - that is the feeling that the HCS/sandbox team at 343 should feel right now after the amount of feedback negative they receive through reddit/twitter/teambeyond/waypoint. But unfortunately it seems they already made up their mind a long time ago...

Game design not based on any user research, but by looking purely at possibly misleading analytics that to me seem clearly missing many facts (based on the posts that I read here). Some of my friends already stopped playing since Oddball came out and wait till the testing is over. I hope at least these changes won't further screw up the game's population and lead to the expected results that they are hoping for.
I know what you mean, i am all for properly used analysis but when the data is telling you overgrowth is performing very well competitively, you have lost track of the real world somewhere. There are so many aspects that can impact this kind of data such as people quit less due to wanting to give it a chance etc. In terms of subjectivity, whether someone likes a map will always be subjective but im pretty sure the general consensus on overgrowth is overwhelmingly negative.

I have seen this kind of thing happen within my work, people get so locked into results from data analysis/mining that it clouds their judgement of wider scale impacts.
Shady IIV wrote:
It is so much more than just the BR!

They changed a lot of other weapons, too (tried the Carbine?), and of course brought automatics back. We lost the magnum - a weapon that competitive players and casuals I play with like, but gained Overgrowth, Mercy and a Rocket Launcher on Regret. Yes, regret - that is the feeling that the HCS/sandbox team at 343 should feel right now after the amount of feedback negative they receive through reddit/twitter/teambeyond/waypoint. But unfortunately it seems they already made up their mind a long time ago...

Game design not based on any user research, but by looking purely at possibly misleading analytics that to me seem clearly missing many facts (based on the posts that I read here). Some of my friends already stopped playing since Oddball came out and wait till the testing is over. I hope at least these changes won't further screw up the game's population and lead to the expected results that they are hoping for.
I know what you mean, i am all for properly used analysis but when the data is telling you overgrowth is performing very well competitively, you have lost track of the real world somewhere. There are so many aspects that can impact this kind of data such as people quit less due to wanting to give it a chance etc. In terms of subjectivity, whether someone likes a map will always be subjective but im pretty sure the general consensus on overgrowth is overwhelmingly negative.

I have seen this kind of thing happen within my work, people get so locked into results from data analysis/mining that it clouds their judgement of wider scale impacts.
I think the metrics they are using for “competitiveness” are wrong.

He mentioned that since higher skill players win more than 50% of the matches on Overgrown, that the map is competitive- which isn’t the case it all.

That just means that skill ends up trumping any elements that actually hamper competitiveness. Which should almost always be the case unless the map has random elements.
What specifically is a "Pro" - qualification to be included in the HCS settings survey?
Just HCS LAN tournament competitors? Anyone who is/was Champion rank? Or all Elite players ranked within Top 1% global stats (HaloTracker)?
I would imagine they mean Pro League players
AimLesZ OG wrote:
What specifically is a "Pro" - qualification to be included in the HCS settings survey?
Just HCS LAN tournament competitors? Anyone who is/was Champion rank? Or all Elite players ranked within Top 1% global stats (HaloTracker)?
I would imagine they mean Pro League players
Indeed. When he says "pro players" he is refering to the current Pro League teams which are the top 8 NA teams.
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Going to be honest here. The updated BR/DMR feel terrible. I constantly skip picking them up anymore because the regular pistol you spawn with does a better job.

Spartan Charge is still OP, and needs to be nerfed big time! Spartan Charge is the one thing in Halo 5 that I constantly cry out BS when I get killed by it. Reduce the lunge, restrict the Red Retical size, reduce it's power, increase it's recovery time from a successful hit until the time you can bring up your gun to fire. Increase Radar range to 25m standard across all playlist. Anyone of these, or all of these would be an improvement.

I also suggest buffing up Ground Pound slightly. I have found that unless I get a direct hit with it, or the other player is EXTREMELY weak I can not get a kill with it.
oh Bump wrote:
There isnt anything to be discussed. Give us back the magnum starts and throw in new NEW maps. Use forge maps from the community not these -Yoink- 343 made maps. Its simple, man.
100% agree
ZaedynFel wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for all of your feedback and responses. We have been reading each bit of it.
We're still in the process of testing settings and making tuning updates to weapons, so things are not locked in place.
We got feedback from pros on last season's settings via survey, and are currently working to address a number of items on each of the maps. We'll be starting with Slayer, and these will be added to the playlist next week.
We also have a new survey out to pros based on what's in the playlist right now - Oddball and BR/Gunfighter. On Monday, we'll collect all of results and go over it with the team.
We are definitely listening, and your feedback does matter. With Thanksgiving tomorrow, there's more work to do and conversations to be had about this all, so we'll be able to provide another update on Monday.
Thanks, Happy Thanksgiving!
The thing is 343 you guys are not listening to the people who understand competitive. You try to force us to play a non playable playlist. You are taking away the last bit off hope that people have in Halo. Why didn't you just make a separate playlist for testing. The real question is why are you changing the starting weapons and gametypes anyway? The game was fine as soon as pistols were implemented as starting weapons. You don't change settings because YOU think it needs to be changed. The reason only YOU think the pistol is overpowered because you made every other pickup weapon suck. It looks like you did it on purpose so you could "test" nice job people who liked the game don't want to play it anymore. Ever wonder why pros have been playing 2s and 8s with old HCS settings? Because they are playable settings. Every competitive playlist has always been one weapon and now you are trying to make it two. Now these two weapons suck. Stop making decisions on your own and forcing us to play bad settings and the two worst maps ever. Leave it to people who know competitive not randoms.
Shouldn't of changed the way campaign worked either. This had the default thrust slide and everything keep campaign vanilla.
Bring back the map Onslaught no power ups or power weapons :P
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