Forums / Community / Halo Championship Series

FFA HaloWC 2018 Playlist

OP ZaedynFel

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Here's my two cents. The new FFA settings are an improvement from what we had before in the regular AR start settings, but are still flawed.

The unlimited kill limit and the 12 minute timelimit do not go well with MM. If one player quits, it ruins the flow of the game, potentially changing the outcome of the game. I understand that the aim is to have the exact same settings used for HWC, but I know for a fact that nobody wants to grind 12 minute games over and over. Personally, I don't mind, but that's because I have too much time on my hands to stream.

As for the settings themselves, this actually plays WORSE than the settings used at Dreamhack Atlanta. The 8 second respawn is TOO LONG, and causes too many droughts that can cost games, and there's literally nothing that the player can do about it. It also doesn't help that there is no deathcam, considering that the use of deathcams in Halo FFAs is a competitive skillgap.

The old FFA settings that we had in MM, although in my opinion they were horrendous, still flowed a lot better than the HWC settings. The 6 second respawn and deathcams meant that you could actually control the pace of the game, and actually play with strategy and hitting all your shots, rather than just holding forward and getting lucky here and there. That is not the case with what we have with the HWC FFA settings, as the pace of the game is far too slow, and sometimes at the higher end level can turn into a clown fiesta.

Personally, I'd say that if we do want to keep these settings, then MM needs to at least implement a 30 kill limit, as it'd still play relatively as well as a 12 minute game, but won't drag on as long. If the intention is to give us a place to practice for FFA tournaments, it would still serve it's purpose.

If we want to optimize the competitive settings, then we'd want 6 second respawn, and deathcams. If not, then we'd be better off with 8 man FFA, rather than 6 man. The droughts and snowball effects of 6 man FFA at 8 second respawn with no deathcam sometimes becomes a slow, mindless battle of attrition that can reward a player for being lucky enough to spawn at the right place at the right time, or punish a player for having 4 or so players dead on respawn for 8 seconds, with nobody to kill on the map in the last 45 seconds of the game.
Syxnrgy wrote:
Personally ARENA - RANKED should be the full competitive settings and tournament play settings only, because they are balanced and fair. ARENA - SOCIAL should go with standard Motion Tracker and Automatic/Precision starts. WARZONE can be loadout based.
If i understand you right, you want all ranked playlists to use HCS/MLG sett heard this mentioned before. Personally, I think going that route would be a big mistake in Halo 5 and/or future Halo games and here's why.

There's a reason why the HCS/MLG playlists are never near the top playlists played (of any Halo) it's because the majority of people don't like the no radar/ability tracker and precision weapons only settings.

Now, I'm going to be very clear on my next statement here, there are TONS of people who like Ranked play and want to BE ranked but don't want to play soical or the HCS/MLG settings. Playlist populations in any Halo game backs up my claims. Hence why Ranked Team Slayer is almost always in the top 3 playlists being played in ANY Halo game and the HCS/MLG playlists are not.

A lot of people want that middle balance, and Ranked play with "normal" settings is it. Im guessing they like the orginal radar, more variety of weapons on the map and more map variety in general. Ranked players are competitive, don't kid yourself... just maybe not super hardcore i want to join Esports competitive. I have a few friends who ONLY play ranked, but can't stand HCS/MLG settings. They just don't find it fun, but don't want to play soical because they want to be ranked. I really feel like the majority of ranked players fall into this boat.

Making all Ranked playlists have HCS settings in halo 5 or any halo game will just drive people away from Halo, I guarantee it. The solution is to have separate playlists for HCS/MLG settings. I 100% agree with people that if 343I/MS are going to have tournaments that feature say FFA or 4-4 or whatever using HCS/MLG settings, then those people who want to play in them should/need to have a place to play/practice, it only makes sense.

Now, one thing I think all Ranked playlists can adopt in Halo 5 from the HCS settings, or at least try it, is pistol only starts. I've always liked the idea of having to go out and find a other weapon like FPS of old (one of the reasons I liked Halo CE/Halo to begin with) As long as that starting weapon is usable, and in this case the pistol is actually usable in Halo 5, I think it would be a good idea. It will force people to go too areas of a maps that maybe they didn't go to before to pick up x weapon. Which it turn might lead to new strategies, setups, gameplay styles, everything.

Also, one more thing to consider, if ranked play in Halo 5 or future Halo games becomes HCS/MLG settings across the board, you're going to have a lot of really good, high skilled players playing social playlists consistently who don't like HCS/MLG settings (which as I pointed out is a lot of people) and that will REALLY ruin social playlists for people, like big time!! If anyone thinks soical is bad now full of competitive players, just image what it'd be like if this happens.

PS I know this post is slightly off topic at times, but I still feel it's relevant enough to be here as I was responding to someone. I'll gladly post it in the match making fed back forms if the monitors wish.
i really dont feel bad for those who dont like the settings. this is for people to practice for tournaments. its not fair that team players get to practice and ffa players dont. this needs to be the future of ranked play. its a proven fact that these settings are more competitive. after playing close to 20 to 30 games so far its very clear who won and who made a mistake where as the old settings allowed unskilled players to win. previously i was loosing to someone in the old playlist and now im beating them. mmm i wonder why? its because of the reliance on radar and AR. please dont be the one that ruins this playlist with your non sense
I wasn't even going to reply to this as I feel like you didn't even read my post, because if you did you wouldn't of put half of what you said.

First off, In response to your frist part, I said,
Quote:
I 100% agree with people that if 343I/MS are going to have tournaments that feature say FFA or 4-4 or whatever using HCS/MLG settings, then those people who want to play in them should/need to have a place to play/practice, it only makes sense.
So I'm not against these settings or the playlist or anything. Get your facts right.

Secondly, I've never said EVER, in any post that I've wrote even, that HCS settings weren't competitive nor did I say that they don't have a place in Halo.

I never said I was against the HCS/MLG having a playlist or am I against this current HCS/MLG FFA playlist as I CLEARLY said in my post, but I don't think you read it, or you heavily misinterpreted it.... somehow.

My post was me simply explaining why I think having HCS settings in ALL ranked playlists isn't a good idea, which I then backed up with facts and opinion. For example, when I said Ranked Team Slayer is always one of or thy most popular playlist in ANY Halo game and not the HCS/MLG Team Slayer playlist. That is a FACT :) I don't feel for one second my post or my explanations was "non sense" in anyway.
Deathcam on halo is when you can see what people are doing after you die by pressing up on the dpad.
I don't believe that has ever been available in FFA. Think about it. It would be too much of an advantage if you were able to die and find out where every other player is. Yes, that is possible in the other playlists, but not in FFA.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Deathcam on halo is when you can see what people are doing after you die by pressing up on the dpad.
I don't believe that has ever been available in FFA. Think about it. It would be too much of an advantage if you were able to die and find out where every other player is. Yes, that is possible in the other playlists, but not in FFA.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Deathcam on halo is when you can see what people are doing after you die by pressing up on the dpad.
I don't believe that has ever been available in FFA. Think about it. It would be too much of an advantage if you were able to die and find out where every other player is. Yes, that is possible in the other playlists, but not in FFA.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Deathcam on halo is when you can see what people are doing after you die by pressing up on the dpad.
I don't believe that has ever been available in FFA. Think about it. It would be too much of an advantage if you were able to die and find out where every other player is. Yes, that is possible in the other playlists, but not in FFA.
Deathcam has been the meta for older Halo FFA's before Halo 5. I'm not sure why deathcam wasn't in the game in the first place for FFA.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Deathcam on halo is when you can see what people are doing after you die by pressing up on the dpad.
I don't believe that has ever been available in FFA. Think about it. It would be too much of an advantage if you were able to die and find out where every other player is. Yes, that is possible in the other playlists, but not in FFA.
I think the logic behind the decision rests with the fact that it's a difference between team modes and a solo mode. Team modes you're given the deathcam as an ability to assist teammates via an extra pair of eyes as well as the ability to communicate (though is this only per party chat?) where as in FFA you have no one else on your team but you -- pan from just above your carcass for what extra info you can gather.
eLantern wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Deathcam on halo is when you can see what people are doing after you die by pressing up on the dpad.
I don't believe that has ever been available in FFA. Think about it. It would be too much of an advantage if you were able to die and find out where every other player is. Yes, that is possible in the other playlists, but not in FFA.
I think the logic behind the decision rests with the fact that it's a difference between team modes and a solo mode. Team modes you're given the deathcam as an ability to assist teammates via an extra pair of eyes as well as the ability to communicate (though is this only per party chat?) where as in FFA you have no one else on your team but you -- pan your carcass for what extra info you can gather.
Yes, there is that mode available right now, but he is talking about switching to different players POV. But there are players saying that was an option before in FFA I just don't remember that.

Edit: Okay, I clearly stand corrected. I just watched a Vetoed video from Jan. 8 and it was there. It still seems odd to me to have that in FFA, and taking it out for HWC is the right way to go.
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Yes!!!
Finally!
It took almost a year- but it happened.
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!

One problem: you say that "we’ll be monitoring overall usage and health closely to ensure the experience remains positive."
This seems to be an issue since you will be putting only two maps in rotation. Two maps will get pretty stale pretty quick. It seems like you want this playlist to fail- so you guys can say that you "tried"- but you really didn't.

Only two maps? Come on!

If you really want this playlist to succeed then you will put more maps like Mercy- The Rig- Plaza- Fathom- Eden- Coliseum and Empire in the rotation because personally- I know I want this playlist to succeed and even hopefully replace the non-HCS playlist!
please for the love of everything understand that this is a tournament style playlist. think of truth and regret as a chess board. a chess board never changes and never goes out of style. please dont be the person that ruins this playlist by suggesting non ffa maps. the only map i would want is palza with a sinper but thats about it otherwise im really happy with this playlist as is
When has Chess ever been in style? Non-FFA maps? Really? In YOUR opinion- what makes an FFA map?
what i mean by "never going out of style" is that chess will always be a staple. its a never changing mind game. there has been various types of chess but the original chess will always be the true test of how well you are at outsmarting your opponent.

for variety's sake Plaza and eden and the rig without the scattershot are the only other maps that i would want included AFTER the 2018 scene is over. otherwise FFA must be played on maps that follow a simple rlue: two bases and two opposing sides like pink and car. this sets up appropriate spawning and weapon placement. if you notice every weapon in the new playlist is spawned in the middle or on the opposing sides making it as symmetrical and even as possible. this is not an opinion this is a proven fact and many high level players agree
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I don't really have an issue with the HaloWC FFA playlist, but after the HaloWC event in April it'd be nice to see the HaloWC FFA playlist replaced with the standard FFA playlist. The HaloWC FFA playlist should perhaps return and replace the standard FFA playlist for approximately the first quarter of the year leading up to the annual HaloWC event -- every year.
eLantern wrote:
I don't really have an issue with the HaloWC FFA playlist, but after the HaloWC event in April it'd be nice to see the HaloWC FFA playlist replaced with the standard FFA playlist. The HaloWC FFA playlist should perhaps return and replace the standard FFA playlist for approximately the first quarter of the year leading up to the annual HaloWC event -- every year.
na man the standard is trash. it caters to much to rush down gameplay
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Yes!!!
Finally!
It took almost a year- but it happened.
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!

One problem: you say that "we’ll be monitoring overall usage and health closely to ensure the experience remains positive."
This seems to be an issue since you will be putting only two maps in rotation. Two maps will get pretty stale pretty quick. It seems like you want this playlist to fail- so you guys can say that you "tried"- but you really didn't.

Only two maps? Come on!

If you really want this playlist to succeed then you will put more maps like Mercy- The Rig- Plaza- Fathom- Eden- Coliseum and Empire in the rotation because personally- I know I want this playlist to succeed and even hopefully replace the non-HCS playlist!
please for the love of everything understand that this is a tournament style playlist. think of truth and regret as a chess board. a chess board never changes and never goes out of style. please dont be the person that ruins this playlist by suggesting non ffa maps. the only map i would want is palza with a sinper but thats about it otherwise im really happy with this playlist as is
When has Chess ever been in style? Non-FFA maps? Really? In YOUR opinion- what makes an FFA map?
what i mean by "never going out of style" is that chess will always be a staple. its a never changing mind game. there has been various types of chess but the original chess will always be the true test of how well you are at outsmarting your opponent.

for variety's sake Plaza and eden and the rig without the scattershot are the only other maps that i would want included AFTER the 2018 scene is over. otherwise FFA must be played on maps that follow a simple rlue: two bases and two opposing sides like pink and car. this sets up appropriate spawning and weapon placement. if you notice every weapon in the new playlist is spawned in the middle or on the opposing sides making it as symmetrical and even as possible. this is not an opinion this is a proven fact and many high level players agree
All the maps I mentioned have a place where weapons can be properly located at without giving anyone the advantage.

As for spawning- same applies.
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Yes!!!
Finally!
It took almost a year- but it happened.
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!

One problem: you say that "we’ll be monitoring overall usage and health closely to ensure the experience remains positive."
This seems to be an issue since you will be putting only two maps in rotation. Two maps will get pretty stale pretty quick. It seems like you want this playlist to fail- so you guys can say that you "tried"- but you really didn't.

Only two maps? Come on!

If you really want this playlist to succeed then you will put more maps like Mercy- The Rig- Plaza- Fathom- Eden- Coliseum and Empire in the rotation because personally- I know I want this playlist to succeed and even hopefully replace the non-HCS playlist!
please for the love of everything understand that this is a tournament style playlist. think of truth and regret as a chess board. a chess board never changes and never goes out of style. please dont be the person that ruins this playlist by suggesting non ffa maps. the only map i would want is palza with a sinper but thats about it otherwise im really happy with this playlist as is
When has Chess ever been in style? Non-FFA maps? Really? In YOUR opinion- what makes an FFA map?
what i mean by "never going out of style" is that chess will always be a staple. its a never changing mind game. there has been various types of chess but the original chess will always be the true test of how well you are at outsmarting your opponent.

for variety's sake Plaza and eden and the rig without the scattershot are the only other maps that i would want included AFTER the 2018 scene is over. otherwise FFA must be played on maps that follow a simple rlue: two bases and two opposing sides like pink and car. this sets up appropriate spawning and weapon placement. if you notice every weapon in the new playlist is spawned in the middle or on the opposing sides making it as symmetrical and even as possible. this is not an opinion this is a proven fact and many high level players agree
All the maps I mentioned have a place where weapons can be properly located at without giving anyone the advantage.

As for spawning- same applies.
reread my comment and understand that Symmetry is whats important. if someone beats me on any other map other than truth or regret its not a true win.why? because every other map allows you to do things you shouldn't be able to in a tournament.
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Yes!!!
Finally!
It took almost a year- but it happened.
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!

One problem: you say that "we’ll be monitoring overall usage and health closely to ensure the experience remains positive."
This seems to be an issue since you will be putting only two maps in rotation. Two maps will get pretty stale pretty quick. It seems like you want this playlist to fail- so you guys can say that you "tried"- but you really didn't.

Only two maps? Come on!

If you really want this playlist to succeed then you will put more maps like Mercy- The Rig- Plaza- Fathom- Eden- Coliseum and Empire in the rotation because personally- I know I want this playlist to succeed and even hopefully replace the non-HCS playlist!
please for the love of everything understand that this is a tournament style playlist. think of truth and regret as a chess board. a chess board never changes and never goes out of style. please dont be the person that ruins this playlist by suggesting non ffa maps. the only map i would want is palza with a sinper but thats about it otherwise im really happy with this playlist as is
When has Chess ever been in style? Non-FFA maps? Really? In YOUR opinion- what makes an FFA map?
what i mean by "never going out of style" is that chess will always be a staple. its a never changing mind game. there has been various types of chess but the original chess will always be the true test of how well you are at outsmarting your opponent.

for variety's sake Plaza and eden and the rig without the scattershot are the only other maps that i would want included AFTER the 2018 scene is over. otherwise FFA must be played on maps that follow a simple rlue: two bases and two opposing sides like pink and car. this sets up appropriate spawning and weapon placement. if you notice every weapon in the new playlist is spawned in the middle or on the opposing sides making it as symmetrical and even as possible. this is not an opinion this is a proven fact and many high level players agree
All the maps I mentioned have a place where weapons can be properly located at without giving anyone the advantage.

As for spawning- same applies.
reread my comment and understand that Symmetry is whats important. if someone beats me on any other map other than truth or regret its not a true win.why? because every other map allows you to do things you shouldn't be able to in a tournament.
So Coli- Mercy- Fathom and Empire aren't symmetrical? Did you ever think that maybe you lose because you get outplayed or your map movement is bad?
eLantern wrote:
I don't really have an issue with the HaloWC FFA playlist, but after the HaloWC event in April it'd be nice to see the HaloWC FFA playlist replaced with the standard FFA playlist. The HaloWC FFA playlist should perhaps return and replace the standard FFA playlist for approximately the first quarter of the year leading up to the annual HaloWC event -- every year.
na man the standard is trash. it caters to much to rush down gameplay
The HaloWC FFA playlist gets too stale too quickly because it's very lacking in variation. Two maps with very limited and controlled weapons isn't much variation. A decent amount of variation can provide a lot of the replay-ability for many of the playlists within the game. Providing the HCS version of a FFA playlist for an important period of time (leading up to the annual HaloWC) certainly makes some sense as does swapping it for the standard FFA playlist at the conclusion of the CSR season following the annual HaloWC event. If you'd like to argue for modifications of the standard FFA playlist to include the Abilities Tracker over the Motion Tracker or only Pistol Starts... whatever, but more maps with a wider variety of weapon pick-ups is something I think many FFA goers would like to have available (at some point) instead of only two maps with HCS settings.
I liked these settings for the most part. The one thing I would maybe change is the 12 minute time limit. If the 12 min limit is kept maybe put a cap on kills too. I love the pistol start, finally I got games where everyone was not running around the map, spartan charging and then cleaning up with the AR. I placed on my alt account the highest starting rank I ever had and most of my ranked games were against people who placed onyx and champ in regular ffa and while I didn’t win but one game (not against any onyx or champ) I felt like I was able to hold my own and not completely embarrass myself. Overall I felt like it played ok (maybe a little slow but I liked it). I would like more maps to play in the future too. Hope it stays around for a while.
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Yes!!!
Finally!
It took almost a year- but it happened.
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!

One problem: you say that "we’ll be monitoring overall usage and health closely to ensure the experience remains positive."
This seems to be an issue since you will be putting only two maps in rotation. Two maps will get pretty stale pretty quick. It seems like you want this playlist to fail- so you guys can say that you "tried"- but you really didn't.

Only two maps? Come on!

If you really want this playlist to succeed then you will put more maps like Mercy- The Rig- Plaza- Fathom- Eden- Coliseum and Empire in the rotation because personally- I know I want this playlist to succeed and even hopefully replace the non-HCS playlist!
please for the love of everything understand that this is a tournament style playlist. think of truth and regret as a chess board. a chess board never changes and never goes out of style. please dont be the person that ruins this playlist by suggesting non ffa maps. the only map i would want is palza with a sinper but thats about it otherwise im really happy with this playlist as is
When has Chess ever been in style? Non-FFA maps? Really? In YOUR opinion- what makes an FFA map?
what i mean by "never going out of style" is that chess will always be a staple. its a never changing mind game. there has been various types of chess but the original chess will always be the true test of how well you are at outsmarting your opponent.

for variety's sake Plaza and eden and the rig without the scattershot are the only other maps that i would want included AFTER the 2018 scene is over. otherwise FFA must be played on maps that follow a simple rlue: two bases and two opposing sides like pink and car. this sets up appropriate spawning and weapon placement. if you notice every weapon in the new playlist is spawned in the middle or on the opposing sides making it as symmetrical and even as possible. this is not an opinion this is a proven fact and many high level players agree
All the maps I mentioned have a place where weapons can be properly located at without giving anyone the advantage.

As for spawning- same applies.
reread my comment and understand that Symmetry is whats important. if someone beats me on any other map other than truth or regret its not a true win.why? because every other map allows you to do things you shouldn't be able to in a tournament.
So Coli- Mercy- Fathom and Empire aren't symmetrical? Did you ever think that maybe you lose because you get outplayed or your map movement is bad?
hell no. coli is too big. fathom and empire is too small. all three of those maps have horrible spawn traps but of course you don't know that because you don't play at a high level. LMAO loose? are you serious? im champ 14 right now in the HWC FFA playlist. my map movement is not bad and i only loose to the top players in the world. those maps are bad because even i take advantage of those spawn traps and it was time it was removed.
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eLantern wrote:
eLantern wrote:
I don't really have an issue with the HaloWC FFA playlist, but after the HaloWC event in April it'd be nice to see the HaloWC FFA playlist replaced with the standard FFA playlist. The HaloWC FFA playlist should perhaps return and replace the standard FFA playlist for approximately the first quarter of the year leading up to the annual HaloWC event -- every year.
na man the standard is trash. it caters to much to rush down gameplay
The HaloWC FFA playlist gets too stale too quickly because it's very lacking in variation. two maps with very limited and controlled weapons isn't much variation. A decent amount of variation can provide a lot of the replay-ability for many of the playlists within the game. Providing the HCS version of a FFA playlist for an important period of time (leading up to the annual HaloWC) certainly makes some sense as does swapping it for the standard FFA playlist at the conclusion of the CSR season following the annual HaloWC event. If you'd like to argue for modifications of the standard FFA playlist to include the Abilities Tracker over the Motion Tracker or only Pistol Starts... whatever, but more maps with a wider variety of weapon pick-ups is something I think many FFA goers would like to have available (at some point) instead of only two maps with HCS settings.
plaza eden and the rig without scattershot would be nice BUT this playlist isnt about varation, its about whos better at outplaying who
If the population plummets because of fatigue relating to only two maps with the same few select weapons on the maps then it's not necessarily about who's "better" at outplaying who, but who's actually available to play against. Besides, just because two maps with a select few weapons and certain settings are supposedly the "best" competitive environmental offerings Halo 5: Guardians has available doesn't mean that the other maps, weapons, and settings don't generally allow the "better" players to come out on top. Meaning, the playlist is still typically about who's "better" at outplaying who, but with some additional variation there likely will be more people to compete and compare yourself against even if the environment isn't ideally setup for "peak" competitiveness. At some point a trade-off needs to occur or you just end up with an undesired experience one way or another. Personally, I'd like to see custom community maps given a look. They could spice up the playlist's variation and perhaps some really "good" maps for that particular environment could be found or at least the community that Forges could be encouraged to create new maps that prove more acceptable than many of the "other" developer maps.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members. This includes stat-flaming.
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