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HaloWC Oddball Preview Feedback Thread

OP Unyshek

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You guys are actually attempting to kill what little player base is left, it's insane how inept you are at listening to the community, you ruin every weapon but the magnum then call the magnum overpowered, NO ONE ENJOYS A BR THATS MADE TO BE INCONSISTENT, the gunfighter mag is genuine garbage, why are you trying to ruin good, working settings, can you listen to the community for once?
I have played eleven or twelve games I think, may play more later this week but I'm not sure yet. So far, I've seen some employees post saying to try it, then when people say they don't enjoy it the response has been "But the population is still the same, and rarely anyone quits Overgrowth". Well If not playing, or if I do play quitting Overgrowth is the best way to express feedback, I'm better off moving on and playing a new game.

Anyway, I'll offer the feedback I have right now. I don't have data to back it up, just personal experience and feel.

Starting weapons
Current setup opinion: I do not enjoy the BR and gunfighter magnum loadout
I'd like to try: Normal magnum with less aim assist
Compromise: Go back to normal magnum starts

I enjoy that you lowered aim assist on the BR, that's a step in the right direction but I wish you tried lowering aim assist on the magnum first. I have three main problems with the BR.
1. The random spread is never good. I know you said that previous games had spread as well (I'm assuming you were thinking of Halo 3?) Well I quit playing during Halo 3 because of the spread, I didn't enjoy it back then either. As Bunnies has already said, MLG upped the damage back in the day to help compensate. Now maybe the BR spread in Halo 5 is minimal, if I ever lose one fight to spread that's one fight too many.
2. I don't like how it means almost every gunfight ends with players taking damage. Fact of the matter is when you are firing more bullets, you have a higher chance of doing damage in a fight. This means if you keep throwing people at one highly skilled player, that player will be whittled down even after perfect play. I have been in many pistol duels where one player didn't take a single hit, I have yet to experience that with BRs.
3. Slower perfect time to kill. I don't want to melt people instantly, but the BR is still slow. This means players are getting away from bad positions more easily (especially with Halo 5's movement mechanics).
4. Easier headshots. Instead of needing to nail that last headshot, a quick sweep in the general direction of the head with the BR will get you the kill. You can argue that the normal pistol's heavy aim assist means that headshots are still easy, which is one of the reasons why I suggested an aim assist nerf to the normal magnum.

A better team will still win with the BRs, I agree. But the point is, none of those previous things are a factor with single shot weapons. Yes, we have had several games use burst fire in the past, and with the exception of Halo 2 (which is the only exception due to button combos, specifically the double shot) every other Halo I think was worse with burst fire starts.

Gunfighter magnum I've barely used, I can't really comment on it.

Maps (specifically Oddball):
Maps I've played: Overgrowth, Empire, Eden, Mercy
Maps I liked: Maybe Empire?
Maps I didn't like: Everything else

Mercy: I don't like the long hallways or the instantly spawning ball. Makes it too easy for a team to defend and chuck the ball off the map while someone grabs the ball and runs to the other side of the map. I don't like the current power weapon/power up layout. Overall I don't really like anything about the map, but that may be because of the instant ball spawn.

Overgrowth: This one you can't chuck the ball off the map and instaspawn it. But I find there's so many nooks for the ball guy to sit in or routes to leave any common setup spot that the ball guy can almost always find a way out when a battle starts.

Eden: It takes way too long to move across the map without being seen. This causes one team to gain a stupid amount of time for holding it in blue. If the ball carrier can stay alive long enough

Empire: I don't like Empire as a map, so I'm surprised I enjoy it for Oddball. But it pretty much fixes everything I don't like about the other maps I've played. There's not a million confined paths for the ball holder to take. Dropping it off the map doesn't lead to a giant goosechase for whoever grabs it off spawn due to the small size of the map. I do find it can be annoying if a team holds it in tower, but in my limited games I don't find it horrible by any stretch.

I want to try the gametype on Rig and Plaza, I would love for Truth to be added to the rotation so I can try that.

Oddball settings
Things I don't like: Instant ball spawn, one hit kills

Without the instant ball spawn, I may find Mercy better. I wouldn't mind trying it. One hit ball kills I don't like due to making some of the confined areas very difficult to get the ball carrier out of when every time you approach it you just get smacked. I know there's grenades. But if you're out I feel you're pretty much hooped depending on where the ball carrier is. Maybe lowering the ball carrier's speed would be a good compromise if you want one hit ball kills? I'd have to try it first.

I'll end with this. As of this point, I do not enjoy the current settings. I'll be honest that I enjoy them more than I thought I would, I was expecting to throw my controller across the room after a couple games. But it's not in a place where I would say I'm having fun. I'm not sure what to do at this point though. I'm hoping I'm overreacting to the comments about the healthy population being more important and people not quitting out of Overgrowth means they're enjoying it. I want to play to see if I come around to the new settings, maybe I'd learn to enjoy them, but if not playing is the best way to show my disdain then I'll happily not play more. I know game development is hard, and I wish you guys nothing but the best regardless the direction you go in.
I thought this thread was for feedback so they can change the playlist according to how the community wants it. So far the attitude in the employees responses have been "we understand you don't like and we don't care cause we are doing it anyway". Honestly thought the point of a company was to create a product people want, not what you want, what the consumer wants. Do you guys think any one will want to play halo 6 after they have seen your attitude to this wonderful community?
I just read a supposed tweet from a 343 employee saying that the magnum will never be the starting weapon in HCS again. Everyone I have read tweets from or spoke with does not want these changes to take place. If this is a fact I can say this with almost absolute certainty, 343 will officially put the final nail in the coffin that is competitive H5. You will lose a major percentage of your player base, including myself which will be a first for me going back 14 years. I am REALLY hoping that this is not the case. Please for the love of your loyal player base please don't let this be!

Mikwen and Snipedowns post on the matter below (sorry I don't know why they aren't clickable links)

https://twitter.com/Mikwen/status/933153792098537472

https://twitter.com/EDWSnip3down/status/933172428980682752
Oddball HCS should attempt to promote aggressive map movement and plays not camping in the far corners... my proposed fixes which essentially alters Oddball all together and creates a new gametype combining Oddball, Assault and Extraction.

Quote:
Attrition HCS
Description: Attrition HCS is a 4v4 ball game mode where players score by using the ball to either arm at detonation sits or by controlling the ball accruing points over time.
Intention: This new modified ball gametype draws inspiration from past competitive Halo game modes where Oddball (Halo 3) and Extraction (Halo 4) scream out the most.

You see, I wanted to find a game mode that fits a certain criteria of being malleable across all map types, whether they be symmetrical or a-symmetrical, as well as having a unique objective gameplay that is not quite “hit and run” like Capture the Flag or “controlled setups” like Strongholds… essentially a gametype that would create movement across the map constantly with avenue for aggressive plays.

Background: The idea originally began as an attempt at ‘Search and Destroy’, which is found in other e-Sports first-person shooters, in an arena setting. I attempt to test some attack versus defense versions where I was met with some unfortunate game glitches out of my control to fix, however with further study I found a game mode known as Extraction and returned to the drawing board once more, thinking about a twist to the concept, where Spartans instead opt to “destroy” the nasty Covenant, Insurgent and Forerunner technology in hopes of weakening their resolve and power… excuse the author for his passionate ramblings, I go a little off book... anyway the intention was to create an Assault gametype that allowed for use of the whole map and didn’t feel like a cheap rip-off of Capture the Flag however yet another setback had a hold of me… the spawning system was orientated unfortunately like Capture the Flag where a team would only spawn around their initial mark and so it was a dead end once more until Oddball was released. The spawning system now mitigated I could start testing some of the game mode…

Purpose: To fulfil a game type that is not yet fulfilled by Capture the Flag and Strongholds.
Improvements from Oddball HCS:
  • Magnum starts.
  • Score to Win increased from 200 to 250.
  • Ball Carrier has limited use of Spartan Abilities, specifically Thruster, Stabiliser and Ground Pound.
  • Detonation Sites are randomly picked through KOTH Scripting System.
  • Arming scores 20 points at Detonation Sites.
  • Arming takes 7 seconds, which can be stolen by Enemy Team for a Quick Reversal (Extraction).
  • Successful Detonations, Detonates and Resets the Ball (Assault)
  • Ball Respawn time is 10 seconds from moment of Destruction/Despawn.
Current Bugs/Glitches:
  • Dedicated Server Crashes
  • Navigation Marker – Disappears at Random Moments
  • Sound Effects – Game Sound occasional is muted or distant. Usually follows with a Dedicated Server Crash.
Differentiation:
  • Capability to be used on any map type, whether it be A-Symmetrical or Symmetrical.
  • Random Arming Sites Promotes Map Movement and Aggression.
  • Minimises “Camping” Meta of Oddball.
Comments:
  • Suggested Maps; Plaza, Truth, The Rig and Coliseum would all benefit from this game mode. Mercy could also be considered due to its previous experience with Extraction.
Here's the thing. In every good halo title you had a strong starting weapon. There was never a need to pick up an alternative rifle. You use the starting weapon and pick up POWER weapons. I don't know why the magnum can't be ok. The starting weapon is supposed to be a jack of all trades. We don't need 6 rifles to pick up.
Here's the thing. In every good halo title you had a strong starting weapon. There was never a need to pick up an alternative rifle. You use the starting weapon and pick up POWER weapons. I don't know why the magnum can't be ok. The starting weapon is supposed to be a jack of all trades. We don't need 6 rifles to pick up.
Overall you're incorrect; though, you're right on some accords.

CE: Yes, the default loadout provided players the Pistol which made the majority of the sandbox outside of tier 1 (power) weapons irrelevant. The other loadout weapon was the AR which was more or less regulated to an emergency or clean-up option.

H2: No, the default loadout gave players an SMG and Pistol. Both were dual wield-able weapons that were weak on their own and both had quite limited range. Initially the Pistol was semi-usable as a standalone weapon and quite deadly when paired with a second weapon, but Bungie released an early patch that reduced its lethality so that it wouldn't be over-powering in its dual use role, but also effectively killed any of its stand alone use. Nevertheless, most (minus the Needler unless you managed to shoot 3 Needlers) map pick-ups were very important toward improving your lethality. However, Bungie adopted the BR as the starting weapon for the Big Team playlists shortly after the game's release because they quickly realized the game-play suffered greatly on big maps with the default loadout. Also, the Team Hardcore playlist mimic'd MLG's settings which gave players the BR as the starting weapon; the BR certainly limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 power weapons.

H3: No, the default loadout gave players arguably the weakest Pistol within the franchise (though it was dual wield-able) and returned the limited AR to the franchise. Again, both weapons could be out dueled by the majority of the sandbox and had fairly limited range, so map pick-ups were quite important toward improving your chances to earn kills. The BTB, Squad Battle, and Hardcore/MLG playlists did provide BR starts which again limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 weapons, but the vast majority of playlists provided players with the default Pistol & AR loadout. There was also periodic/temporary playlists that would appear such as Team BRs and Team Throwback which provided BR starts too.

Reach: No & Yes. Like H2 & H3 some playlist provided you with the prominent precision weapon as your starting weapon, but the majority didn't; plus, loadout options diversified the potential for players to have different loadout weapons within the same match.

CEA (Reach): Similar to H:CE in that the modified Reach Pistol that was meant to mimic the CE Pistol significantly reduced the need to pick up or use anything other than Tier 1 weapons.

H4: Custom loadouts primarily dictated what players would start with. Some playlists didn't offer players choices or limited their options, but most playlists gave players the freedom to choose what they wished to start with.

H2A (MCC): The default loadouts varied depending on what players voted for within the match selection process. BR starts would limit the need to pick-up anything other than Tier 1 weapons. Side note: the H2A Pistol received stronger lethality than the patched classic H2 version. Also, this game includes an AR where as classic H2 didn't include it and if I recall correctly I think it was used as the starting loadout weapon for several game-type selections.

H5: Provided a competent Pistol along with a competent AR as the primary starting weapons. The re-tuning changes have improved the standing of the Magnum within the sandbox to the point where players are less likely to pick-up non-tier 1 weapons over it. They should be looking to further tweak the BR, DMR, Carbine, SMG, and possibly the AR to better align them with the H5 standard Pistol.
So no one says I'm a blind hater I will start with what I like about this update:Oddball is fun and competitive. (I would like either longer game time, so comebacks won't ever be mathematically impossible, and also increase score to win to 250)
Nades are improved idk if I quite like the guaranteed half shield damage though.
Automatics are better but I still don't want them in the HCS.Now on to the bad stuff.
The BR simply is not consistent enough and does not have a fast enough kill time with all these abilities against good players. It actually might be a good gun if we didn't have all the spartan abilities. And I know it has the same spread as older brs but you have to realize that maps are bigger now to account for sprint so mid range fights now feel weird. So the BR either needs to be removed or changed to have a faster ttk and less spread. Make the aa and bullet magnetism low so its harder to aim. Or if there isn't time for that, just go back to pistol starts. Please do not force us to play with it how it is.The DMR is cool but the total lack of aa at close and midrange feels really weird. I think you could raise it a tad and just keep bullet mag low.Overgrowth and mercy are just bad. I don't care about the b/r win rates or quit rates. They are not fun to compete on and the maps are not competitive. Short sightlines and choke points make the game horrible. We wanted forge maps, not bad maps we have vetoed 100 times.
I know you are trying to combine the HCS and TA playlists but this is not the way to do it unless you want to lose all of the competitive community.Please just improve the BR or put it all back to pistol starts, give us forge maps, and oddball, mixed with a little MLG partnership ( Kappa) and we could have an awesome season of Halo for Worlds 2018.Thanks for reading.
eLantern wrote:
Here's the thing. In every good halo title you had a strong starting weapon. There was never a need to pick up an alternative rifle. You use the starting weapon and pick up POWER weapons. I don't know why the magnum can't be ok. The starting weapon is supposed to be a jack of all trades. We don't need 6 rifles to pick up.
Overall you're incorrect; though, you're right on some accords.

CE: Yes, the default loadout provided players the Pistol which made the majority of the sandbox outside of tier 1 (power) weapons irrelevant. The other loadout weapon was the AR which was more or less regulated to an emergency or clean-up option.

H2: No, the default loadout gave players an SMG and Pistol. Both were dual wield-able weapons that were weak on their own and both had quite limited range. Initially the Pistol was semi-usable as a standalone weapon and quite deadly when paired with a second weapon, but Bungie released an early patch that reduced its lethality so that it wouldn't be over-powering in its dual use role, but also effectively killed any of its stand alone use. Nevertheless, most (minus the Needler unless you managed to shoot 3 Needlers) map pick-ups were very important toward improving your lethality. However, Bungie adopted the BR as the starting weapon for the Big Team playlists shortly after the game's release because they quickly realized the game-play suffered greatly on big maps with the default loadout. Also, the Team Hardcore playlist mimic'd MLG's settings which gave players the BR as the starting weapon; the BR certainly limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 power weapons.

H3: No, the default loadout gave players arguably the weakest Pistol within the franchise (though it was dual wield-able) and returned the limited AR to the franchise. Again, both weapons could be out dueled by the majority of the sandbox and had fairly limited range, so map pick-ups were quite important toward improving your chances to earn kills. The BTB, Squad Battle, and Hardcore/MLG playlists did provide BR starts which again limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 weapons, but the vast majority of playlists provided players with the default Pistol & AR loadout. There was also periodic/temporary playlists that would appear such as Team BRs and Team Throwback which provided BR starts too.

Reach: No & Yes. Like H2 & H3 some playlist provided you with the prominent precision weapon as your starting weapon, but the majority didn't; plus, loadout options diversified the potential for players to have different loadout weapons within the same match.

CEA: Similar to H:CE in that the modified Reach Pistol that was meant to mimic the CE Pistol significantly reduced the need to pick up or use anything other than Tier 1 weapons.

H4: Custom loadouts primarily dictated what players would start with. Some playlists didn't offer players choices or limited their options, but most playlists gave players the freedom to choose what they wished to start with.

H2A: The default loadouts varied depending on what players voted for within the match selection process. BR starts would limit the need to pick-up anything other than Tier 1 weapons. Side note: the H2A Pistol received stronger lethality than the patched classic H2 version. Also, this game includes an AR where as classic H2 didn't include it and if I recall correctly I think it was used as the starting loadout weapon for several game-type selections.

H5: Provided a competent Pistol along with a competent AR as the primary starting weapons. The re-tuning changes have improved the standing of the Magnum within the sandbox to the point where players are less likely to pick-up non-tier 1 weapons over it. They should be looking to further tweak the BR, DMR, Carbine, SMG, and possibly the AR to better align them with the H5 standard Pistol.
Think about which section of the forum you are in. The dude is talking about competitive settings.

H1: Pistol
H2: BR
H3: BR
HR: DMR
H4: DMR/BR
H2A: BR
H5: Pistol
eLantern wrote:
Here's the thing. In every good halo title you had a strong starting weapon. There was never a need to pick up an alternative rifle. You use the starting weapon and pick up POWER weapons. I don't know why the magnum can't be ok. The starting weapon is supposed to be a jack of all trades. We don't need 6 rifles to pick up.
...
Think about which section of the forum you are in. The dude is talking about competitive settings.

H1: Pistol
H2: BR
H3: BR
HR: DMR
H4: DMR/BR
H2A: BR
H5: Pistol
I'm well aware of what section of the forum I'm in and I'd argue that the term "competitive" is not mutually exclusive to the HCS. The game should be tailored such that the weapons function in a synergistic form across all modes and playlists. Each weapon should have its intended purpose, role, and niche that makes it a desirable option to use under certain circumstances and they should be balanced well against each other as they fulfill their roles. Having a weapon that's a type of jack-of-all trades/utility weapon is fine as long as its the master of no particular niche which is why having 6 rifles or whatever number of other weapons to use is fine too. Nevertheless, the game's sandbox and maps should be designed around its primary utility weapon(s) and in this case I agree it is, and should be, the H5 Pistol. My point with regards to outlining the past titles was that they failed to provide a truly great sandbox and the typical design of the majority of the franchise's titles didn't provide a default starting weapon that regulated the majority of pick-ups to being useless; however, those titles did manage to provided some iconic and fun weapons to use even if they weren't ideal within the sandbox.
Bri wrote:
You guys are actually attempting to kill what little player base is left, it's insane how inept you are at listening to the community, you ruin every weapon but the magnum then call the magnum overpowered, NO ONE ENJOYS A BR THATS MADE TO BE INCONSISTENT, the gunfighter mag is genuine garbage, why are you trying to ruin good, working settings, can you listen to the community for once?
I dont understand why theg cant but they kust dont seem open to it
Now that I’ve played a bit more I wanted to offer some hopefully more constructive feedback than my last post. I’m still not the biggest fan of Oddball as a gametype, but I have a couple suggestions hat may make it a little better in my opinion.

1. As a player who seems to be the one going for the objective most often, I would prefer for the ball carrier to have thrust. I’m ok with not having sprint or other abilities, but thrust would give you some kind of defense. If this would make the carrier too OP, I’d suggest making it a two mele kill with the ball rather than the one hit kill that it is now.
2. I’d rather the ball location indicator work more like CTF. Once it’s picked up, the indicator should go away after a few seconds unless the carrier drops the ball or is being shot. As it is now there’s no real need for communication because you know exactly where the ball is and can assume that the rest of their team is camping there to protect them. This probably plays differently in competitive matches, but that’s been my experience online.
3. As for starting weapons, I don’t personally mind the BR, but I can definitely see why others do. The biggest reason for why the BR wasn’t a starting weapon all along seemed to be that it was too inconsistent. So why would it be a starting weapon now that it’s even less consistent than it was before? Also, the Gunfighter is pretty much useless.
4. Disregard any of this that I’ve said if it goes against what pro players are telling you guys. Competitive players should have the majority say in what settings and gametypes they play. They’re the ones who know what works and what doesn’t. Seeing as their livelihood depends on this game, they’re the ones with the most at stake and therefore have the most desire to see the game succeed.
Wow!; that´s awoesome!
So, you said you want feedback, and you said you read it. I figured I would give you mine (it will be a long post, sorry).

First I would like to address some points:
  • People do not put as much energy in telling what’s good and what they like as they put to tell what’s wrong and what’s infuriating them, and I guess no one ever write that kind of long post or go to twitter to tell “hum that’s ok”. We should all keep this in mind before Yoinking! everywhere and saying things like “everyone is saying [insert contemptuous statement here]”. Those willingly expressing feedback sadly aren’t representative of the majority.
  • I would like to add that I’m tired of arguments being made completely out of the point just for the pleasure of complaining like “don’t touch the settings and give us more maps”. That has already been addressed many times on forums, streams, twitter and so on. Feedback is wanted on settings, asking for new maps is missing the point. I’m sure all resources useful to make maps are already making maps, for the next game. Would they find a level design/building team they forgot about in their basement they would allocate this resource on making the next game better, not this one. Weapon tuning and settings is a different beast altogether since a. it can be done by fewer people if you just give them time enough, and b. what’s being done and tested here could just be used directly in the next game for all we know.
  • That and I’m just lost when I read comments about Forge maps. Again, it’s missing the point, and has been addressed (too many resources needed on polishing maps, framerate issues, etc.). AND, forge maps already killed Halo once in Reach. The biggest issue with this game outside of the bloom and sprint/armor abilities was that pros were playing a different game in customs while the player base was playing Bungie’s maps in matchmaking. We barely got up from that so please don’t suggest going back to this.
  • Also do not make H3 into a sacred totem. Yes it had a good viewer base, because there was not much else to watch. Just remember how we hated it when it came out because it was not as good as good as H2 (partly due to BR spread).
  • That being said, Huke left just before the storm, Snipedown and Spartan are looking for teammates to compete in CoD, Mikwen is not feeling good about what’s happening, neither is Snakebite, Frosty, well let’s admit he’s not the most positive guy on the circuit but he is better than most and we would not like to see him go. You get where I’m going. Can you imagine next worlds with under motivated and under practiced players, qualified teams disbanded and not showing up and the casters having to commentate the absence of Huke, and maybe Snipedown and others? I do not think it would be a pleasant one, and I do think you have to give them answers, fast, and directly. Joshua’s last post on the forums did not help at all. It was not the right kind of answer to give and was not given at the right place (none of them pros post anything here and you have to deal with it).

Now that this is out of the way, here are my feelings on what happened IN the game.

On the weapons tuning:
  • The new DMR is way too hard to use for me, but I’m no pro player. Last time I played a SWAT DMR game I was happy when I managed to hit my enemies, even in the foot, but judging by how much they killed me, some players can use it better than me.
  • The BR... Let’s say the bloom of Halo Reach DMR almost killed Halo altogether. It was a great idea for campaign, but the fact that a spamming guy had a random chance of outshooting you forced everyone to spam and let luck alone decide of the outcome. And Bungie answer to that (i.e. ignoring us and telling us to pace our shots) was just infuriating. The foundation of all the love and faith I have in you guys at 343i comes from you giving us NBNS. This new BR is you going backward and against what made you. Now once again, luck will be the deciding factor since aiming at you opponent only gives you a chance of hitting him. All the reticule range, burst rate, etc. can make it hard enough to use. I understand the “too powerful” point, but make it harder to use and let’s go, why make it random?
  • I don’t like autos so I did not pick up the AR but I like what you did here.
  • The other weapons I don’t care.

On the Oddball playlist, sorry I did not play it, but here is my feedback anyway:
  • From a spectator standpoint I’m happy to see it come back. Anyone remembers MLG Dallas 2010 (I think…), and Neighbor winning the game by jumping out of Guardian with the ball in hand? I broke my chair that time.
  • Mercy, “non merci”. I always thought this map to be the worst I’ve ever played on, in any Halo, so I was surprised to see it comeback in H5. Please do not force it in tournament play, it’s already painful (to me) to have to play it in swat.
  • I kinda like the idea of BR/Pistol start, but not with this random BR. I guess GFM’s point is to make the pistol less polyvalent, and I feel like this could work with a consistent BR. Again, I’m no pro.
Well, that’s it. I know it’s thanksgiving for you so thanks for the love of the game you all show, 343i and the community.

Pardon my French if I sounded offensive at any point, but I am (French).

PS: I do not want to hurt anyone’s feelings, maybe you won’t share my ideas and that’s ok, I do not pretend to know THE truth, I just happen to have an opinion. Just so you understand where I stand and how I came to these feelings, here is a little background:

I play Halo since CE, watch tournaments since late H2/early H3 and I did not miss much of them. I got sucked in Halo for the campaign and stuck in it for the multi. I’m not very good nor very competitive myself but I have no issue with loosing half of my games because the other team was better. I hate losing when I know it’s just due to luck (like better weapons in fiesta) and don’t like winning this way either. I’d rather play with the pro settings in a social playlist if I could.

Campaign wise I love Reach > ODST > 2 > CE > 3 > 5: I don’t remember anything of it even thought I played through several times, but I do remember it’s about fighting forunners and well, let’s say they are very far from what you get fighting the covenant (except the brutes)> 4: let’s be honest here, all these parts when we did not control aim nor movements (Bungie dropped this idea after H3 and these unbearable Cortana ghost apparition and yet we had some control)? Like the first elite, the broken elevator, and that final boss battle? Even H2 had a better final boss (and yet it was not good), but Bungie dropped this idea until they could make it right in Reach.

Multiplayer wise H5 > Reach (NBNS) > H2A > 2 > 3 > 4. I did not put CE here because sadly I did not play it in multi.
eLantern wrote:
Here's the thing. In every good halo title you had a strong starting weapon. There was never a need to pick up an alternative rifle. You use the starting weapon and pick up POWER weapons. I don't know why the magnum can't be ok. The starting weapon is supposed to be a jack of all trades. We don't need 6 rifles to pick up.
Overall you're incorrect; though, you're right on some accords.

CE: Yes, the default loadout provided players the Pistol which made the majority of the sandbox outside of tier 1 (power) weapons irrelevant. The other loadout weapon was the AR which was more or less regulated to an emergency or clean-up option.

H2: No, the default loadout gave players an SMG and Pistol. Both were dual wield-able weapons that were weak on their own and both had quite limited range. Initially the Pistol was semi-usable as a standalone weapon and quite deadly when paired with a second weapon, but Bungie released an early patch that reduced its lethality so that it wouldn't be over-powering in its dual use role, but also effectively killed any of its stand alone use. Nevertheless, most (minus the Needler unless you managed to shoot 3 Needlers) map pick-ups were very important toward improving your lethality. However, Bungie adopted the BR as the starting weapon for the Big Team playlists shortly after the game's release because they quickly realized the game-play suffered greatly on big maps with the default loadout. Also, the Team Hardcore playlist mimic'd MLG's settings which gave players the BR as the starting weapon; the BR certainly limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 power weapons.

H3: No, the default loadout gave players arguably the weakest Pistol within the franchise (though it was dual wield-able) and returned the limited AR to the franchise. Again, both weapons could be out dueled by the majority of the sandbox and had fairly limited range, so map pick-ups were quite important toward improving your chances to earn kills. The BTB, Squad Battle, and Hardcore/MLG playlists did provide BR starts which again limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 weapons, but the vast majority of playlists provided players with the default Pistol & AR loadout. There was also periodic/temporary playlists that would appear such as Team BRs and Team Throwback which provided BR starts too.

Reach: No & Yes. Like H2 & H3 some playlist provided you with the prominent precision weapon as your starting weapon, but the majority didn't; plus, loadout options diversified the potential for players to have different loadout weapons within the same match.

CEA (Reach): Similar to H:CE in that the modified Reach Pistol that was meant to mimic the CE Pistol significantly reduced the need to pick up or use anything other than Tier 1 weapons.

H4: Custom loadouts primarily dictated what players would start with. Some playlists didn't offer players choices or limited their options, but most playlists gave players the freedom to choose what they wished to start with.

H2A (MCC): The default loadouts varied depending on what players voted for within the match selection process. BR starts would limit the need to pick-up anything other than Tier 1 weapons. Side note: the H2A Pistol received stronger lethality than the patched classic H2 version. Also, this game includes an AR where as classic H2 didn't include it and if I recall correctly I think it was used as the starting loadout weapon for several game-type selections.

H5: Provided a competent Pistol along with a competent AR as the primary starting weapons. The re-tuning changes have improved the standing of the Magnum within the sandbox to the point where players are less likely to pick-up non-tier 1 weapons over it. They should be looking to further tweak the BR, DMR, Carbine, SMG, and possibly the AR to better align them with the H5 standard Pistol.
Yeah I get what you are saying. I was commenting from the standpoint that the goal of all of this is to land on the world's 2018 settings. Not to be dismissive of other playlists.
It might be hard to understand but competitive Halo has always been a one gun game.

-I'm not talking about the entire Halo sandbox, just competitive gameplay across all titles.-

That's what makes it 'competitive'. The fact that everyone is on the same playing field from start to finish. You died? Well you'll spawn with the same weapon as everyone and ready to jump into the fight immediately.
There was no running around for a stronger weapon or getting smashed off spawn because the enemy grabbed a different weapon.
The only thing to control and keep track of was the Sniper and power ups on some maps.
It was ALL about gun skill, positioning and awareness (and Fraggin like a Pro)

Now, in Halo 5 they managed to make everything very well balanced so having rifles that are stronger than the main weapon doesn't escalate out of proportion very often.
Although it's still annoying that you have to spend time looking for a riffle just to have a little advantage.

Suddenly, they decide that changing the meta 2 years into the game is a good idea. Destroying the weapon balance they had and infuriating the vast majority of HCS players.

I'm not sure who is in charge of these changes but they definitely don't know what competitive Halo is about.
From having the Radar and ARs for two years to their newest invention: Rockets on Regret.

343 never ceases to impress me when it comes to coming up with absolutely irrational responses to the requests of the community.
eLantern wrote:
Here's the thing. In every good halo title you had a strong starting weapon. There was never a need to pick up an alternative rifle. You use the starting weapon and pick up POWER weapons. I don't know why the magnum can't be ok. The starting weapon is supposed to be a jack of all trades. We don't need 6 rifles to pick up.
Overall you're incorrect; though, you're right on some accords.

CE: Yes, the default loadout provided players the Pistol which made the majority of the sandbox outside of tier 1 (power) weapons irrelevant. The other loadout weapon was the AR which was more or less regulated to an emergency or clean-up option.

H2: No, the default loadout gave players an SMG and Pistol. Both were dual wield-able weapons that were weak on their own and both had quite limited range. Initially the Pistol was semi-usable as a standalone weapon and quite deadly when paired with a second weapon, but Bungie released an early patch that reduced its lethality so that it wouldn't be over-powering in its dual use role, but also effectively killed any of its stand alone use. Nevertheless, most (minus the Needler unless you managed to shoot 3 Needlers) map pick-ups were very important toward improving your lethality. However, Bungie adopted the BR as the starting weapon for the Big Team playlists shortly after the game's release because they quickly realized the game-play suffered greatly on big maps with the default loadout. Also, the Team Hardcore playlist mimic'd MLG's settings which gave players the BR as the starting weapon; the BR certainly limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 power weapons.

H3: No, the default loadout gave players arguably the weakest Pistol within the franchise (though it was dual wield-able) and returned the limited AR to the franchise. Again, both weapons could be out dueled by the majority of the sandbox and had fairly limited range, so map pick-ups were quite important toward improving your chances to earn kills. The BTB, Squad Battle, and Hardcore/MLG playlists did provide BR starts which again limited the need to pick-up anything less than Tier 1 weapons, but the vast majority of playlists provided players with the default Pistol & AR loadout. There was also periodic/temporary playlists that would appear such as Team BRs and Team Throwback which provided BR starts too.

Reach: No & Yes. Like H2 & H3 some playlist provided you with the prominent precision weapon as your starting weapon, but the majority didn't; plus, loadout options diversified the potential for players to have different loadout weapons within the same match.

CEA (Reach): Similar to H:CE in that the modified Reach Pistol that was meant to mimic the CE Pistol significantly reduced the need to pick up or use anything other than Tier 1 weapons.

H4: Custom loadouts primarily dictated what players would start with. Some playlists didn't offer players choices or limited their options, but most playlists gave players the freedom to choose what they wished to start with.

H2A (MCC): The default loadouts varied depending on what players voted for within the match selection process. BR starts would limit the need to pick-up anything other than Tier 1 weapons. Side note: the H2A Pistol received stronger lethality than the patched classic H2 version. Also, this game includes an AR where as classic H2 didn't include it and if I recall correctly I think it was used as the starting loadout weapon for several game-type selections.

H5: Provided a competent Pistol along with a competent AR as the primary starting weapons. The re-tuning changes have improved the standing of the Magnum within the sandbox to the point where players are less likely to pick-up non-tier 1 weapons over it. They should be looking to further tweak the BR, DMR, Carbine, SMG, and possibly the AR to better align them with the H5 standard Pistol.
Considering that this is for competitive Halo, all you just said is irrelevant. Competitive Halo has always been a one gun game plus power weapons.
It's what makes competitive Halo good. Everyone has the same chance from start to finish regardless of the map or gamemode.

In Halo 5 there's more variety and it's well balanced as long as autos are out.

This weapon tune just ruined that ~balance.

This has nothing to do with regular Halo MM though.
I think the old BR was good... after playing quite a bit today, I dont really mind the new BR either. The BR though should be even-paced with the pistol at least. I like the BR with GFM starts personally. I do think though that the maps are not great for oddball.

You should get massive damage though and not a one hit kill with the ball. I also read through a bunch of the posts and the comment made about no radar:

it was said that 'no radar' made it too spammy for the abilities.... take out both, honestly. if you want, keep clamber and lose everything else. that's my opinion...then if you need to, use classic maps and gametypes.
We need the magnum 😊
Please, the new settings are so awful. Why fix what wasn't broke? The HCS settings were amazing before the update. I get you guys are trying to cater to the gold tier players (majority) but the competitive people are the ones who compete and do tournaments. No one I have talked to enjoys this BR start. Please change it back
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